California Math: 2+2=5

[RiverDog]

Or maybe 2+2=3. Don't insist that your student tell you that the answer is 4 or else you might be accused of being a white supremist.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read about this initiative. Here's some excerpts:

California will officially adopt a new "equity" and "social justice" based mathematics framework for its K-12 schools after a vote from the State Board of Education on Wednesday.

"Teaching toward social justice urges educators to empower learners with tools to examine inequities and address important issues in their lives and communities through mathematics," the document explains. It adds, "Mathematics educators committed to social justice work provide curricular examples that equip students with a toolkit and mindset to identify and combat inequities with mathematics."

"The concept of mathematics being purely objective is unequivocally false, and teaching it is even much less so," a document for the "Equitable Math" toolkit read. "Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict."

A California-based group is sounding the alarm as the state education department considers implementing a framework that promotes controversial ideas about race and mathematics.

The "Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction" teacher training caught attention in February when Fox News reported on Oregon defending the program, which advises, among other things, that the focus on finding the right answer is an example of White supremacy infiltrating classrooms.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/californi ... al-justice
https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-r ... -framework

And before anyone says it, there's other sources out there besides Fox News, including the New York Times, not exactly a conservative rag:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/c ... lines.html

This is pure lunacy. Does anyone want to hire a California trained engineer to design a bridge for them using a "social justice-based mathematics framework"?

[Aseahawkfan]

Until I see California actually doing this, then I'm not buying it.

I see these articles concerning Washington State all the time, when I ask actual employees of the Washington State government, they never took the classes Fox claimed they were taking. Or did math like this. Or any of the stuff they claim. They write these articles so conservatives click on the article, have a cow, then never bother to ask actual government employees they know if it is happening. I actually ask, so far I've not seen a one employee of the government I know of any race having to do this stuff. It's conservative mythology like pretending so many people were losing their jobs to reduced testing standards.

[RiverDog]

Until I see California actually doing this, then I'm not buying it.

I see these articles concerning Washington State all the time, when I ask actual employees of the Washington State government, they never took the classes Fox claimed they were taking. Or did math like this. Or any of the stuff they claim. They write these articles so conservatives click on the article, have a cow, then never bother to ask actual government employees they know if it is happening. I actually ask, so far I've not seen a one employee of the government I know of any race having to do this stuff. It's conservative mythology like pretending so many people were losing their jobs to reduced testing standards.

I figured that someone would get bent out of shape due to the source I used, ie Fox News, which is why I included one from the New York Times. Here's some excerpts from the Times article:

The draft also suggested that math should not be colorblind and that teachers could use lessons to explore social justice — for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems, or applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality.

Critics of the draft said the authors would punish high achievers by limiting options for gifted programs. An open letter signed by hundreds of Californians working in science and technology described the draft as “an endless river of new pedagogical fads that effectively distort and displace actual math.”

Williamson M. Evers, a senior fellow at the Independent Institute and a former official with the Education Department during the administration of George W. Bush, was one of the authors of the letter and objected to the idea that math could be a tool for social activism.

“I think that’s really not right,” he said in an interview. “Math is math. Two plus two equals four.”

The controversial proposal has been adapted, which is what prompted the outrage and subsequent examination of the policy:

The California State Board of Education voted to adopt a new—and much-debated—math framework on Wednesday (July 12th), concluding a years-long process that involved three drafts, prompted hundreds of suggested revisions, and reignited decades-old arguments over the purpose of math education and the meaning of equity.

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learnin ... it/2023/07

To be fair, it's not a binding document, but it does demonstrate the mindset of some of today's educators that they would even consider such nonsense.

[c_hawkbob]

"2+2=5" is 100% a MAGA right false representation of what is being suggested.

for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems

Looking for stereotypes in word problems doesn't effect the math of the problem, and it's something that is done now in advertising, TV and movie scriptwriting and every other facet of modern society anyway.

applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality

Doesn't change the math either, it suggests using math class to explore social inequities instead of just having Billy count apples.

BTW, I don't like this much either, but it's no where near what they (and you Riv) are trying to represent it as. This is typical far right teeth gnashing over anything they can stir up to keep the hate alive. It's become the only tool in their shed.

[RiverDog]

"2+2=5" is 100% a MAGA right false representation of what is being suggested.

for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems

Looking for stereotypes in word problems doesn't effect the math of the problem, and it's something that is done now in advertising, TV and movie scriptwriting and every other facet of modern society anyway.

applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality

Doesn't change the math either, it suggests using math class to explore social inequities instead of just having Billy count apples.

BTW, I don't like this much either, but it's no where near what they (and you Riv) are trying to represent it as. This is typical far right teeth gnashing over anything they can stir up to keep the hate alive. It's become the only tool in their shed.

Those quotes aren't what I object to. I don't give a rip what kind of example they use to illustrate a math problem. Use the one that the student is most likely to understand, say a completion percentage or batting average.

Here's what I object to. From the equitable math handbook:

We see white supremacy culture show up in the mathematics classroom even as we carry out our professional responsibilities outlined in the California Standards for the Teaching Profession (CSTP). Using CSTPas a framework, we see white supremacy culture in the mathematics classroom can show up when:

There is greater focus on getting the "right" answers than understanding the concept and reasoning.

Students are required to "show their work" in standardized, prescribed ways.

https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/up ... TRIDE1.pdf

That language suggests that they ARE changing the math, in that they will accept a wrong answer if they determine that they understand the 'concept and reasoning.'

And how is it that asking a student to 'show their work in a standardized way' makes a teacher a white supremist? Isn't that a good way for the teacher to understand where the student's weaknesses are so they can address them? Mine was doing algebra to reduce an equation to its lowest terms, something that wouldn't have been apparent had the instructor not asked me to show my work. Others might be converting a fraction to a decimal. And even if it wasn't a good teaching practice to make students show their work, what is it that makes it an example of white supremacy?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Here's what I object to. From the equitable math handbook:

We see white supremacy culture show up in the mathematics classroom even as we carry out our professional responsibilities outlined in the California Standards for the Teaching Profession (CSTP). Using CSTPas a framework, we see white supremacy culture in the mathematics classroom can show up when:

There is greater focus on getting the "right" answers than understanding the concept and reasoning.

Students are required to "show their work" in standardized, prescribed ways.

https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/up ... TRIDE1.pdf

That language suggests that they ARE changing the math, in that they will accept a wrong answer if they determine that they understand the 'concept and reasoning.'

And how is it that asking a student to 'show their work in a standardized way' makes a teacher a white supremist? Isn't that a good way for the teacher to understand where the student's weaknesses are so they can address them? Mine was doing algebra to reduce an equation to its lowest terms, something that wouldn't have been apparent had the instructor not asked me to show my work. Others might be converting a fraction to a decimal. And even if it wasn't a good teaching practice to make students show their work, what is it that makes it an example of white supremacy?

This policy comes across as lowering the bar which is doing the kids and society a disservice.

"There is greater focus on getting the "right" answers than understanding the concept and reasoning."

Well, there will be a right answer and only one right answer. They most definitely need to work on making sure students understand the concepts and demonstrate sound reasoning, but those should both lead to getting the right answer. You cannot have one without the other.

"Students are required to "show their work" in standardized, prescribed ways."

I suppose standardized and prescribed are open to interpretation, but there is a minimum that must be achieved in showing one's work. That minimum is demonstrating the aforementioned understanding of the concepts and sound reasoning; there's zero value in providing an answer if you can't explain how you got there.

One of the things I like about math is that it is unequivocal. The numbers go in, and the numbers come out, and there's only one way they can come out if done correctly. I really don't see how they can effectively teach math and expect students to develop properly by altering the focus the two ways they describe.

[Aseahawkfan]

I figured that someone would get bent out of shape due to the source I used, ie Fox News, which is why I included one from the New York Times. Here's some excerpts from the Times article:

The draft also suggested that math should not be colorblind and that teachers could use lessons to explore social justice — for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems, or applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality.

Critics of the draft said the authors would punish high achievers by limiting options for gifted programs. An open letter signed by hundreds of Californians working in science and technology described the draft as “an endless river of new pedagogical fads that effectively distort and displace actual math.”

Williamson M. Evers, a senior fellow at the Independent Institute and a former official with the Education Department during the administration of George W. Bush, was one of the authors of the letter and objected to the idea that math could be a tool for social activism.

“I think that’s really not right,” he said in an interview. “Math is math. Two plus two equals four.”

The controversial proposal has been adapted, which is what prompted the outrage and subsequent examination of the policy:

The California State Board of Education voted to adopt a new—and much-debated—math framework on Wednesday (July 12th), concluding a years-long process that involved three drafts, prompted hundreds of suggested revisions, and reignited decades-old arguments over the purpose of math education and the meaning of equity.

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learnin ... it/2023/07

To be fair, it's not a binding document, but it does demonstrate the mindset of some of today's educators that they would even consider such nonsense.

None of the sources matter until you can prove by talking with the people working at these places it is true. That is my problem. I read these stories multiple times on Fox and other news sites, there are left wing stories that dot he same thing as well concerning racist policies and left wing items that you investigate and aren't true either. I used to get wound up. Then I started to ask government employees about the stuff and they looked at me like, "WTF are you talking about? None of this is happening in the actual schools or government offices."

There is some diversity training from what I understand. No talk of white supremacy in the actual workplace on an official level. Mostly stuff handed down by human resources to avoid legal issues like most places, often to deal with transgender folk.

Teachers aren't being forced to vastly change their ideas of math and testing in most schools other than softer grading which has been a thing since I was young in the 80s apparently. Government workers aren't being forced to be much different other than add an option for the trans stuff.

It's stories they keep churning out that aren't provable to wind people up. Which is why when you see these stories, I urge you to ask a government employee or teacher you know if they are changing anything and what the changes are before you buy into it.

Usually it ends up being a fake story or a very individual issue with some single teacher or employee that went off the farm.

I tell people to do this more for awareness so they are not politically manipulated to believe something that isn't true. Everyone should always look more deeply into an issue rather than take things at face value.

[RiverDog]

This policy comes across as lowering the bar which is doing the kids and society a disservice.

"There is greater focus on getting the "right" answers than understanding the concept and reasoning."

Well, there will be a right answer and only one right answer. They most definitely need to work on making sure students understand the concepts and demonstrate sound reasoning, but those should both lead to getting the right answer. You cannot have one without the other.

"Students are required to "show their work" in standardized, prescribed ways."

I suppose standardized and prescribed are open to interpretation, but there is a minimum that must be achieved in showing one's work. That minimum is demonstrating the aforementioned understanding of the concepts and sound reasoning; there's zero value in providing an answer if you can't explain how you got there.

One of the things I like about math is that it is unequivocal. The numbers go in, and the numbers come out, and there's only one way they can come out if done correctly. I really don't see how they can effectively teach math and expect students to develop properly by altering the focus the two ways they describe.

If they would have emphasized showing your work, that the student understood the concepts and the teacher could follow the steps they took, perhaps see that they would have arrived at the right answer had it not been for a simple arithmetic error, then I would be fine with a student getting at least partial credit for not coming up with the exact right answer, but that's not what they said. But they specifically stated that it was racist to insist on showing their work, at least to the degree that it was 'standardized and prescribed", whatever the hell that means. What's a standardized way of showing your solution to a math problem? There were no 'for examples' in the document that might clarify that kind of very vague language.

And to ASF's point about this being a guideline and not necessarily a rule, I understand and agree with his point. Hopefully, the vast majority of educators have enough common sense to disregard the most absurd statements in this document. But even if this is not being required, at the very least, it is hugely intimidating for a teacher to think that if he/she insists on a student producing the right answer that they might be subject to charges of racism. And BTW, the link and quotes I posted in my reply to Cbob was not from a news article, they were from the actual document itself.

If CA wants to improve the education of their students, they need to concentrate on getting parents to acknowledge their role in the education of their children and provide them with the necessary tools. We have a tendency to blame teachers and schools for the failings of our children. It's my firm belief that the biggest factor determining the success or failure of a child's education is the environment in which they are raised.

[mykc14]

Legislation like this is very frustrating and completely takes the focus off of real content. It lowers standards and confuses kids. We have social justice and equity interwoven into almost all of our curriculum already in Washington. This has actually been going on for quite some time going back to the early 2000's. Standardized tests are racist was a common idea around that time. Although I agree that the test should be looked at and adjusted to make sure that kids don't need a ton of outside knowledge to answer questions (actually I would get rid of standardized test as a requirement for graduation) it really has gone too far. Reading through a math problem now is just crazy. Kids get confused before they even get to the question they are trying to answer. There isn't as much of a focus on the actual math for instance kids aren't required to memorize math facts anymore. The focus really is shifting through the sh!t and trying to figure out what the question is actually asking. In my opinion all legislation like this is simply attempting to try to explain why minorities score so low on these tests, have such a high drop out rate, and do poorly in school. The legislators in WA, CA, OR are operating under the belief that all issues with minorities stem from systematic racism and equity issues so their solutions are centered on that idea. They refuse to look at socioeconomic issues, single parent families, or anything else that may also be contributing to these academic issues. We have Social Justice/Equity trainings and curriculum shoved down our throat as educators and it is a bit overwhelming. Combine that with legislation that doesn't allow schools to punish kids for bad behavior, give kids homework, or require kids to turn in work and the future is scary. If a student's safe place is at school and they feel overwhelmed by the work in class they don't have to do it. The education system is an embarrassment right now and it just continues to get worse. We are creating generations of entitled young adults who have zero accountability and are given an excuse to not have to work hard. It is scary.

[curmudgeon]

America will be lost within a generation if not sooner……

[RiverDog]

Legislation like this is very frustrating and completely takes the focus off of real content. It lowers standards and confuses kids. We have social justice and equity interwoven into almost all of our curriculum already in Washington. This has actually been going on for quite some time going back to the early 2000's. Standardized tests are racist was a common idea around that time. Although I agree that the test should be looked at and adjusted to make sure that kids don't need a ton of outside knowledge to answer questions (actually I would get rid of standardized test as a requirement for graduation) it really has gone too far. Reading through a math problem now is just crazy. Kids get confused before they even get to the question they are trying to answer. There isn't as much of a focus on the actual math for instance kids aren't required to memorize math facts anymore. The focus really is shifting through the sh!t and trying to figure out what the question is actually asking. In my opinion all legislation like this is simply attempting to try to explain why minorities score so low on these tests, have such a high drop out rate, and do poorly in school. The legislators in WA, CA, OR are operating under the belief that all issues with minorities stem from systematic racism and equity issues so their solutions are centered on that idea. They refuse to look at socioeconomic issues, single parent families, or anything else that may also be contributing to these academic issues. We have Social Justice/Equity trainings and curriculum shoved down our throat as educators and it is a bit overwhelming. Combine that with legislation that doesn't allow schools to punish kids for bad behavior, give kids homework, or require kids to turn in work and the future is scary. If a student's safe place is at school and they feel overwhelmed by the work in class they don't have to do it. The education system is an embarrassment right now and it just continues to get worse. We are creating generations of entitled young adults who have zero accountability and are given an excuse to not have to work hard. It is scary.

Thanks for weighing in on this subject, mykc. As an educator, you're a lot closer to this subject than any of us. It's been 20 years since I even had a kid in public schools.

In my opinion all legislation like this is simply attempting to try to explain why minorities score so low on these tests, have such a high drop out rate, and do poorly in school. The legislators in WA, CA, OR are operating under the belief that all issues with minorities stem from systematic racism and equity issues so their solutions are centered on that idea. They refuse to look at socioeconomic issues, single parent families, or anything else that may also be contributing to these academic issues.

There always has been, and always will be, inequities in the types of environments a child is born into. A child born into a family where both parents are PhD's has a much better chance at succeeding than does a child where neither parent graduated from high school simply because the learning environment is bound to be different. Same with differences in class. A child born into an upper class or upper middle-class environment as a much better chance of success than one born into a poverty-stricken family living in an inner-city tenement.

I believe that this is what you were referring to as the socioeconomic issues that influence the academic performances amongst minorities that we all agree needs to be addressed. You can't fix it by moving the goal posts to make it easier, which is what this legislation is attempting to do.



 
We expect way too much out of our schools. Education begins at home. It's the parents that have to turn off the TV set, or in today's day and age, take away their cell phone, until their child gets their homework done.

[Aseahawkfan]

The thing I find amusing is they think that people that graduate from public schools with low standards will be able to compete against kids in other nations going to school systems who aren't engaging in this idiocy on a mass scale. How do you compete against Asian and Indian kids who are expected to learn high level math and technology skills while you're reconfiguring the math and classes for kids to pass based on shoddy work?

I would not send my kids to public school in the modern day myself unless it was some carefully vetted public school that considered teaching more important than socializing based on leftist propaganda.

[RiverDog]

The thing I find amusing is they think that people that graduate from public schools with low standards will be able to compete against kids in other nations going to school systems who aren't engaging in this idiocy on a mass scale. How do you compete against Asian and Indian kids who are expected to learn high level math and technology skills while you're reconfiguring the math and classes for kids to pass based on shoddy work?

I would not send my kids to public school in the modern day myself unless it was some carefully vetted public school that considered teaching more important than socializing based on leftist propaganda.

Agreed.

And as I said earlier, I wonder how much counseling these kids get. If a student is under performing, rather than trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole by forcing them to keep up with the advanced kids, are they looking at steering them towards the trades, ie blue collar type careers? Are they offering any kind of vocational programs? Maybe mykc can answer those questions.

[mykc14]

 
We expect way too much out of our schools. Education begins at home. It's the parents that have to turn off the TV set, or in today's day and age, take away their cell phone, until their child gets their homework done.

That's the way it should be but I don't think it is every going to be like that again. Parenting in today's society is putting your kid in-front of the TV, Computer, Game system, etc. Parents don't hold kids accountable for actions and anytime they get in trouble in school is an opportunity for them to show their kids how much they care about them by fighting against the punishment. I think parents feel guilty about the way they parent and try to prove their love in all the wrong ways and at the wrong times. We have a society based on instant gratification, little accountability, and selfishness. Parents let their kids spend all day watching TV because it makes them happy and is easy. Parents don't want to punish their kids because it's hard and makes their kids sad. Parents push against authority because they see it as a chance to show their kids they are on their side. Kids aren't taught to push through difficulty but instead are told to blame something else when things get hard. Safe spaces, trigger warnings, and a complete avoidance of feeling uncomfortable sets kids up to be unable to deal with difficulty in the future. The burden of educating kids and teaching them to be productive members of society is on the schools and legislation like this fails our kids.

[Aseahawkfan]

There is going to be a further stratification of society because quite a number of parents don't raise their kids like "they're friends." They raise their children knowing they have a responsibility to prepare their kids for life. That means ensuring they do well in school, have a good work ethic, and the like. These kids are going to outcompete and obtain bigger incomes and better positioning in society. You see this with a lot of particular cultures like the Chinese (Asian in general), Jewish, Indian, and you can see it with certain families in the European diaspora where they don't participate in the foolish lowering of standards in education for their children while funding politicians who push socialization agendas.

It's going to mostly damage regular families in the middle class to poor range who are being sold that education standards are based on race and the entire society must be dumb-downed to accommodate marginalized minorities. Even many of the higher performing families within those groups know that isn't the path to improvement. That's the path to perpetual poverty because you can't compete against higher performing students when you have low expectations for your children.

We are seeing rebellion against these sorry education policies in the home school movement, charter schools, and things like Montesori schools. People who know better are seeking alternatives to public school which is operating more like a day care with teachers than an education system preparing people for the competitive realities of adult life.

[RiverDog]

I can certainly see how our society is heading in the wrong direction, how parents are failing their children, how technology might be producing a society full of idiots. But on the other hand, I can remember how my parents thought that my generation was going to hell in a hand basket. Their big axe to grind was television, how kids were spending way too much time watching it. And my mom and dad told me how their parents were aghast at how kids were listening to the radio way too much, how they weren't doing their chores because of it. Hell, Abraham Lincoln's father used to get pissed at him because he was spending way too much time reading those damn books.

And now here we are, complaining about how our kids and grandkids are spending too much time with their cell phones and Xbox's. Each generation complains about the succeeding generations.

[mykc14]

I can certainly see how our society is heading in the wrong direction, how parents are failing their children, how technology might be producing a society full of idiots. But on the other hand, I can remember how my parents thought that my generation was going to hell in a hand basket. Their big axe to grind was television, how kids were spending way too much time watching it. And my mom and dad told me how their parents were aghast at how kids were listening to the radio way too much, how they weren't doing their chores because of it. Hell, Abraham Lincoln's father used to get pissed at him because he was spending way too much time reading those damn books.

And now here we are, complaining about how our kids and grandkids are spending too much time with their cell phones and Xbox's. Each generation complains about the succeeding generations.

I actually agree with you. Each generation feels like whatever the younger generation is into is bad and all of that, but in some ways your dad had a point about TV and it's potential damage to kids. I imagine that your dad, based on his response, limited your TV viewing. I imagine kids who had parents who didn't limit their TV watching were less likely to learn those life lessons that your parents wanted to make sure you learned. When those kids had kids they were less likely to limit their kids TV and now social media/computer use. Your dad was right about TV, by the way, it had the potential to ruin a generation. Thankfully your dad's generation realized this and society as whole still valued things like hard work, doing the right thing, accountability, etc. Things have changed. What we are teaching our kids is different. The way we parent is different. Kids are literally spending over 8 hours a day on their phone/computer/video games/social media etc (I think the average kid in the US spends between 7-8 hours in front of a screen per day). What they are visually consuming on a daily basis is scary and at very young ages. Some research has shown that the average age a child is first exposed to porn in our country is 8 years old (90% of the HS boys I work with say they first viewed porn around 10 years old). We have no idea what this is doing to kids but we do know that this generation is the most depressed generation in history. In 2017 less than 3% of kids aged 12-18 had ever been prescribed anti-depressants in our country now that number is over 30% (although I think that number is high because of sample bias, it's probably closer to 15%). Suicide rates have more than doubled in young teens since 2000. Almost 1/4 of HS students in the US have seriously considered suicide in the past year. The fears of your parents are being realized in this generation and it is your generations fault. I saw it in my own house. Technically I am a millennial. My brother is 9 years younger than me and my sister. My parents were married until I was a Freshman in HS. We lived in the country and had very little access to technology throughout my youth. I spent my day doing chores and playing outside. My brother was 7 when my parents divorced. He spent his days going between the two houses. Neither parent wanted to be the bad guy and both felt sorry/guilty for the divorce and what it might do to him. He spent his days playing video games and watching TV. He played no sports and has never had a girlfriend. He is 33 years old and still lives with my mom. He got his first job of his life at the age of 31. He is smarter than me, has a better sense of humor than me, and is more likeable than me but as far as his place in society goes he is a waste. He could have (and still could) done great things for society and made the world a better place but he basically has wasted everything. He spends his days playing video games and watching movies. He spends his nights as a night janitor at our school (a job I got him). When he was in school if he got in trouble (which he did often) my mom would defend him until the school would decide not to punish him. If they did suspend him he would stay at home all day and play video games. I got in trouble one time in my school career and was severely punished at home. Same parents, same genetics (actually his were better) two very different outcomes. I'm not saying that I am perfect, but if you look at our family as a case study the main difference between me and my brother is how we were raised. Instant gratification and giving up at the first sign of difficulty is the norm. If we don't have a major shift in society we are in trouble.

[mykc14]

There is going to be a further stratification of society because quite a number of parents don't raise their kids like "they're friends." They raise their children knowing they have a responsibility to prepare their kids for life. That means ensuring they do well in school, have a good work ethic, and the like. These kids are going to outcompete and obtain bigger incomes and better positioning in society. You see this with a lot of particular cultures like the Chinese (Asian in general), Jewish, Indian, and you can see it with certain families in the European diaspora where they don't participate in the foolish lowering of standards in education for their children while funding politicians who push socialization agendas.

It's going to mostly damage regular families in the middle class to poor range who are being sold that education standards are based on race and the entire society must be dumb-downed to accommodate marginalized minorities. Even many of the higher performing families within those groups know that isn't the path to improvement. That's the path to perpetual poverty because you can't compete against higher performing students when you have low expectations for your children.

We are seeing rebellion against these sorry education policies in the home school movement, charter schools, and things like Montesori schools. People who know better are seeking alternatives to public school which is operating more like a day care with teachers than an education system preparing people for the competitive realities of adult life.

I do agree with this and, like you mentioned, ironically it is the families these policies are meant to help that will suffer the most.

[RiverDog]

Boy, I hate to complain about an educator, but a few more paragraphs would make your musings a lot easier to read.

You're damn right that my dad used to curtail our TV viewing. Not only couldn't I watch it until my homework was done, in September/early October, we'd haul down a couple pickup loads of firewood out of the Blues on the weekend and throughout the week, I'd have to spend an hour or so each evening, after football practice, splitting, hauling, and stacking firewood. I never complained.

Interesting that you mentioned pornography. I remember my mom sending back a Woodstock album my brother had bought and threatening to write to the FCC because it had the "Gimme a F" chant in it. How things have changed.

Kids are only emulating their parents. I probably spend a good 60% of my waking hours on my tablet. It's where I get all of my news and sports info, even watch some of the games on it. It was the same story with my dad. He got to the point where him and mom would come home from a night out and he'd have to turn on the TV. Mom said that he had to say good night to it. He probably spent as much of his free time watching the TV as I do on my tablet. FYI dad was born in 1925, I was born in 1954, so he's from "The Greatest Generation", I'm a Boomer.

There are some subjects where technology is hurting our education, like math, which was the point of the OP in this thread. It's the one subject that we should be demanding that kids produce a finite answer. A long time ago, I got a kick out of my daughter when I took her to see "Apollo 13" and they had to do calculations by hand and were using a slide ruler. She didn't have a clue what it was. Other subjects, like history, should be able to utilize computers and the internet by allowing students quick and easy research, ask them to give an oral presentation about who Ernest Shackleton was and what made his ordeal so noteworthy. A quick google and wiki gives a brief overview instead of having to spend hours in a library checking out books.

Anyhow, those are random comments that don't have a heck of a lot to do with the OP. Paragraphs aside, your post was very informative.

[mykc14]

Boy, I hate to complain about an educator, but a few more paragraphs would make your musings a lot easier to read.



Anyhow, those are random comments that don't have a heck of a lot to do with the OP. Paragraphs aside, your post was very informative.

Yeah, I didn't spend much time editing that one, actually I was trying to finish it up real quick while my Civics class was watching a documentary from Netflix called "The Social Dilemma." It actually deals with this very topic, pretty informative.

We'll see what happens. I'm not totally down on the next generation but things are definitely changing. I see kids overcome hard things and push through adversity all of the time as a coach, I don't see it so much in the classroom with my non-players. I can push them as hard as I want on the football field and won't have a parent care, but if I take a kids phone away (usually a non-football player because a football player wouldn't push me) I will have to spend hours dealing with parents and stuff. When a kid gets in trouble now the parents are always looking for a loophole to get their kids out of trouble instead of using it as a teachable moment. It's going to be interesting to see what work looks like for this generation. Will they have safe spaces? We already have "mental health days" as teachers in our district. It's a joke and the opposite of what I was taught growing up.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wasn't taught that trash either with safe spaces and microaggressions either.

How did I learn? I watched my grandfather wake up every day for most of my young life and go and work in a stone trench milking cows and working on a farm for six or seven days a week to take care of his family. My other grandfather after working in the coal mines and leaving Colorado moved to Texas and worked a full time job for the city and a part time job at night and on the weekends to buy his family a house and send my mother and her siblings to private school. Both of them fought in World War 2 and lived through The Great Depression.

That is the lens I look at my life through. Nothing happening nowadays is as tough as anything they went through to get this easy world to where it is now. If they can both survive that, nothing I can't take because my life hasn't been nearly as hard as theirs.

Younger generation is being taught a way of life that I cannot understand or connect with a lot of the time. Those tough bastards from my grandparents generation and prior set the rest of us up real well for success by settling many of the hard matters of the world before we were even born.

[EmeraldBullet]

Two plus two actually can equal 5 in some cases. For instance take a a square and place it on top of a square of the same size. 2 squares. Add that two 2 squares of same size and arranged the same way so they are side by side. The 2 squares plus 2 squares results in 5 total square (the 4 small individual ones and one big one comprised of the other 4)

[Aseahawkfan]

Two plus two actually can equal 5 in some cases. For instance take a a square and place it on top of a square of the same size. 2 squares. Add that two 2 squares of same size and arranged the same way so they are side by side. The 2 squares plus 2 squares results in 5 total square (the 4 small individual ones and one big one comprised of the other 4)

That is not an example of 2 plus 2 equals 5. That's the kind of manipulation of information that leads to incompetence and disinformation. The question is not how many squares do you see? The question is simple: does 2 plus 2 equal 4. It does, every time as a base math question. Math is a tool that is used for proving or disproving or explaining certain phenomena. It is rigid and has rigid rules to fulfill its specific purpose as the rules provide a touchstone for others to measure and prove certain theories or measure certain models.

That is why mathematicians, scientists, and the like require such extensive math proofs for theories and such that can be replicated and seen in the phenomena they measure because if math doesn't act as a guide and can be manipulated by perception, then its ability to provide proof is greatly lessened.

Learn the base math correctly, then you can play like Einstein or someone who reaches that ability to use math to prove theories.

[RiverDog]

Two plus two actually can equal 5 in some cases. For instance take a a square and place it on top of a square of the same size. 2 squares. Add that two 2 squares of same size and arranged the same way so they are side by side. The 2 squares plus 2 squares results in 5 total square (the 4 small individual ones and one big one comprised of the other 4)

That's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about basic arithmetic. Besides, it was just an example of California's de-emphasizing the importance of arriving at the correct answer. Close doesn't count in mathematics. It's an exact science.

The other thing that is an issue is CA's de-emphasizing the importance of showing your work. If a teacher can see the thought process of how a student arrived at an incorrect answer, not only can they identify where they went wrong and correct them, they can issue partial credit for their work to reflect the fact that the student's thought process is correct. CA considers such a demand by teachers for students to show their work to be racist.

[NorthHawk]

It doesn't sound like it will give a solid base for the STEM studies (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) where standards are required and close enough doesn't count as it could result in disaster.