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That is a strong, strong VP pick. Fairly moderate though the left has tried to paint him as an extremist. Yale educated lawyer. Former Marine. Published writer. Turned his book into a movie named Hillbilly Elegy. He will be able to go toe to toe and sound very educated and competent. Worked his way up to wealth from nothing. Well connected with finance and skilled in business. Will bring Trump's big donors back. Married to an American woman of Indian descent. Very strong candidate. And young too. Just 39.

Aseahawkfan wrote:That is a strong, strong VP pick. Fairly moderate though the left has tried to paint him as an extremist. Yale educated lawyer. Former Marine. Published writer. Turned his book into a movie named Hillbilly Elegy. He will be able to go toe to toe and sound very educated and competent. Worked his way up to wealth from nothing. Well connected with finance and skilled in business. Will bring Trump's big donors back. Married to an American woman of Indian descent. Very strong candidate. And young too. Just 39.

I thought the same thing, too. 39 years old, former military, Yale Law School grad, from the Rust Belt, should appeal to the working-class moderates that Trump is going to need to win states like PA, MI, and WI. He started out in 2016 as a Never Trumper and has since changed his tune. It was a brilliant selection.

Better get used to another 4 years of Donald Trump.

River Dog wrote:I thought the same thing, too. 39 years old, former military, Yale Law School grad, from the Rust Belt, should appeal to the working-class moderates that Trump is going to need to win states like PA, MI, and WI. He started out in 2016 as a Never Trumper and has since changed his tune. It was a brilliant selection.

Better get used to another 4 years of Donald Trump.

Yep. Comes off like a moderate in these insane times. He's no Sarah Palin. He's everything Trump is not, almost an anti-Trump in his credentials other than his political affiliation.

I wasn't onboard with you with this Trump in office again, but this does seem to almost seal the deal for a Trump return to office. I was waiting for his V.P. pick to see if he screwed it up, but he didn't. Vance will likely appeal as you said to the Rust Belt working class swing voters, maintain the Trumpers, and appear as a younger, more moderate presence with unimpeachable credentials against someone like Kamala with her low credibility as a politician and not particularly well liked in the party, mostly there to maintain the African-American and female vote.

I guess we'll see in November. Vance still has to do the job during the campaign and Trump as well.

Now I see Biden and other Dems backing off their rhetoric on Trump after the assassination attempt. I knew this legal crap would backfire on the Dems and it sure did, in a major, major way because there is no way around the fact that painting Trump as a fascist dictator seeking to destroy Democracy could well have wound up the shooter to think he was saving the country.

You call the Republicans moonbats for following Trump, RD. I don't argue about some of them. But the Dems have plenty of moonbats and they don't even realize it. They look in the mirror and tell themselves they're the sane party while they just keep on pushing policy and campaigning like we're still in the 60s tone deaf to a changing America. Democrats need new blood smarter than the people they are pushing right now as much as the Republicans. That old guard of Democrats needs to go as they are stuck in the 60s campaigning to young folks like they think the same way as the old folks.

On a side note, did you see that bastard Jay Inslee is moving to Idaho? This guy liberalizes Washington State and turns it into a liberalized hell and then moves to Idaho, one of the most conservative states in America? What a hypocrite bastard. People on this board wonder why I can't stand Democrats. They are terrible in Washington State.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Yep. Comes off like a moderate in these insane times. He's no Sarah Palin. He's everything Trump is not, almost an anti-Trump in his credentials other than his political affiliation.

I wasn't onboard with you with this Trump in office again, but this does seem to almost seal the deal for a Trump return to office. I was waiting for his V.P. pick to see if he screwed it up, but he didn't. Vance will likely appeal as you said to the Rust Belt working class swing voters, maintain the Trumpers, and appear as a younger, more moderate presence with unimpeachable credentials against someone like Kamala with her low credibility as a politician and not particularly well liked in the party, mostly there to maintain the African-American and female vote.

I guess we'll see in November. Vance still has to do the job during the campaign and Trump as well.

Now I see Biden and other Dems backing off their rhetoric on Trump after the assassination attempt. I knew this legal crap would backfire on the Dems and it sure did, in a major, major way because there is no way around the fact that painting Trump as a fascist dictator seeking to destroy Democracy could well have wound up the shooter to think he was saving the country.

You call the Republicans moonbats for following Trump, RD. I don't argue about some of them. But the Dems have plenty of moonbats and they don't even realize it. They look in the mirror and tell themselves they're the sane party while they just keep on pushing policy and campaigning like we're still in the 60s tone deaf to a changing America. Democrats need new blood smarter than the people they are pushing right now as much as the Republicans. That old guard of Democrats needs to go as they are stuck in the 60s campaigning to young folks like they think the same way as the old folks.

On a side note, did you see that bastard Jay Inslee is moving to Idaho? This guy liberalizes Washington State and turns it into a liberalized hell and then moves to Idaho, one of the most conservative states in America? What a hypocrite bastard. People on this board wonder why I can't stand Democrats. They are terrible in Washington State.

I can't see Biden being effective on the campaign trail. He's going to continue to make significant gaffes, and now that the press is tuned in, all of them will be front page news. He has just one more face-to-face debate with Trump, and I can't see him doing any better than he did in their first one. That press conference he held the other day was as phony as they come, with two teleprompters and a compliant group of reporters who asked canned questions with Biden retreating to his talking points at every chance he got.

Unless something drastic happens to change the current dynamic, like a war/terrorist attack/assassination, etc., the only way the Dems win in November is if Biden steps down, and even then, it would be problematic.

Oh, I know that the Dems have plenty of moonbats. RFK Jr. is one of them. You can include "the squad" under that terminology, too. There are no moderates in the Democratic party. They used to call themselves a "big tent" that could accommodate a variety of POV's, but today's Democratic party is better characterized as an umbrella.

I didn't see that Inslee is moving to Idaho until you mentioned it, but from what I can gather, it's simply a rumor. If Idaho is like WA, they have to publicly disclose property purchases, so it would be a pretty easy rumor to confirm or deny. Even if it were true, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's moving. It might just be a summer home. Ironically, the place he was rumored to be buying property at was Hayden Lake, which once had a neo Nazi community. But if he were to move is permanent residence, it would be very hypocritical for him to duck some of the taxes and polices he's helped implement or raise.

River Dog wrote:I can't see Biden being effective on the campaign trail. He's going to continue to make significant gaffes, and now that the press is tuned in, all of them will be front page news. He has just one more face-to-face debate with Trump, and I can't see him doing any better than he did in their first one. That press conference he held the other day was as phony as they come, with two teleprompters and a compliant group of reporters who asked canned questions with Biden retreating to his talking points at every chance he got.

Unless something drastic happens to change the current dynamic, like a war/terrorist attack/assassination, etc., the only way the Dems win in November is if Biden steps down, and even then, it would be problematic.

Oh, I know that the Dems have plenty of moonbats. RFK Jr. is one of them. You can include "the squad" under that terminology, too. There are no moderates in the Democratic party. They used to call themselves a "big tent" that could accommodate a variety of POV's, but today's Democratic party is better characterized as an umbrella.

I didn't see that Inslee is moving to Idaho until you mentioned it, but from what I can gather, it's simply a rumor. If Idaho is like WA, they have to publicly disclose property purchases, so it would be a pretty easy rumor to confirm or deny. Even if it were true, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's moving. It might just be a summer home. Ironically, the place he was rumored to be buying property at was Hayden Lake, which once had a neo Nazi community. But if he were to move is permanent residence, it would be very hypocritical for him to duck some of the taxes and polices he's helped implement or raise.

Yep. Agree with most of it.

So the Inslee thing is a rumor. Still don't like the guy, never will. I've already stated the many reasons. I guess the Idaho falsehood is what I get for having conservative friends who feed me that information. I'll never forget his idiot moratorium on the death penalty protecting those Carnation murderers from the punishment they deserved. No nation should allow the murder of three generations of a family without the most extreme of punishments visited upon the murderer. Child murder should always be answered with the most extreme punishment. I have no tolerance for child murder and Jay Inslee wanted to practice his absolutism to allow some child murderers to sit in jail for decades. I despise that thinking.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Yep. Agree with most of it.

So the Inslee thing is a rumor. Still don't like the guy, never will. I've already stated the many reasons. I guess the Idaho falsehood is what I get for having conservative friends who feed me that information. I'll never forget his idiot moratorium on the death penalty protecting those Carnation murderers from the punishment they deserved. No nation should allow the murder of three generations of a family without the most extreme of punishments visited upon the murderer. Child murder should always be answered with the most extreme punishment. I have no tolerance for child murder and Jay Inslee wanted to practice his absolutism to allow some child murderers to sit in jail for decades. I despise that thinking.

I never have liked Inslee, either. He's hugely unpopular out in this neck of the woods due to his stance on the proposed wind farm. The man is arrogant, dismissed locals concerns about not liking to look at 650' high wind turbines in their backyards by saying "wind turbines are a common sight around Washington." Garbage dumpsters are common sights, too, but I don't want one sitting in front of my house. He also has thrown his weight behind the breaching of the LSRD's while not having a plan to replace their electrical production, irrigation, transportation, etc.

Back to the OP. I read some of Liz Cheney's remarks about Vance. She didn't have very many good things to say about him, says that he said that Trump can ignore SCOTUS rulings, said that Vance will do what Mike Pence refused to do, overturn the results of an election, that he's a threat to the Constitution, and so forth. I like Liz Cheney a lot, but I need to check out some of these things she's saying about Vance.

Funny as hell you guys calling this guy a moderate. He doesn't have enough of a record to be considered anything but pro whatever benefits him the most. Gone from a never Trumper to a pro-MAGA bulldog because it's what gets him the most soonest. His best qualification is his willingness to do what Trumps last VP refused to do and sell out the constitution for the benefit of his boss.

c_hawkbob wrote:Funny as hell you guys calling this guy a moderate. He doesn't have enough of a record to be considered anything but pro whatever benefits him the most. Gone from a never Trumper to a pro-MAGA bulldog because it's what gets him the most soonest. His best qualification is his willingness to do what Trumps last VP refused to do and sell out the constitution for the benefit of his boss.

I wasn't making a comment about my personal opinion of Vance. I was assessing the decision from Trump's POV. If I were to want to see Trump elected, which I think I've made abundantly clear over the years that I don't, this guy was the perfect choice. He's going to help Trump.

And as I said above, Liz Cheney, of whom I have a great deal of respect for, didn't have anything good to say about Vance and mentioned some of the same things you have, but I'm going to keep an open mind. I never heard of the guy prior to Trump's announcing him as his VP.

c_hawkbob wrote:Funny as hell you guys calling this guy a moderate. He doesn't have enough of a record to be considered anything but pro whatever benefits him the most. Gone from a never Trumper to a pro-MAGA bulldog because it's what gets him the most soonest. His best qualification is his willingness to do what Trumps last VP refused to do and sell out the constitution for the benefit of his boss.

Totally agree with Bob here. JD Vance is a follower, and is nowhere near moderate lately. IMO it was a poor choice as he is another white guy MAGA. What group does he bring? Youth is all I can think of.

However, they likely chose JD because it simply won't matter. Biden is toast. He is way too stubborn to withdraw. I saw a poll this morning that nearly 2/3 of democratic voters want him to step down. I hope something changes from now until the convention, and he steps down. Kamala would do better based on the fact that she can talk. Biden can't even do that, at least consistently. I agree with River that Joe will have plenty more gaffes, or worse, over the next few months. This country is screwed.

Stream Hawk wrote:However, they likely chose JD because it simply won't matter. Biden is toast. He is way too stubborn to withdraw. I saw a poll this morning that nearly 2/3 of democratic voters want him to step down. I hope something changes from now until the convention, and he steps down. Kamala would do better based on the fact that she can talk. Biden can't even do that, at least consistently. I agree with River that Joe will have plenty more gaffes, or worse, over the next few months. This country is screwed.

Rumor is that it's the First Lady who is convincing him that he's not too old, that he can beat Trump, and so on. Who ever is responsible, Biden is now in serious denial. I saw a survey that said 80% of all voters, including 69% of Dems think he's too old. How can anyone ignore or rationalize numbers like that?

And yes, the gaffes are continuing. Just the other day, he mis-read his teleprompter, told a union convention that his plan for limiting rent increases was for $55/month instead of the 5% it actually is, said that the US can resolve their differences at the "battle box", vowed to beat Trump in 2020. It's only going to get worse. They've virtually hidden him for the past 4 years, tightly controlling his appearances, and now he's out there in front of the public without his fig leaf.

Stream Hawk wrote:Totally agree with Bob here. JD Vance is a follower, and is nowhere near moderate lately. IMO it was a poor choice as he is another white guy MAGA. What group does he bring? Youth is all I can think of.

However, they likely chose JD because it simply won't matter. Biden is toast. He is way too stubborn to withdraw. I saw a poll this morning that nearly 2/3 of democratic voters want him to step down. I hope something changes from now until the convention, and he steps down. Kamala would do better based on the fact that she can talk. Biden can't even do that, at least consistently. I agree with River that Joe will have plenty more gaffes, or worse, over the next few months. This country is screwed.

JD Vance was one of the smartest choices Trump and Republican Party could have made and likely guaranteed a victory in November regardless of who the Dems run.

Vance checks off a ton of boxes. Appeals to Rust Belt voters. Appeals to military voters. Appeals to moderates with an Indian wife and a moderate view on immigration in terms of what he will actually do in office versus his rhetoric. Pulls back in the Silicon Valley Trump supporters like Musk, Thiel, and Ackman because Vance is a pro-business conservative with experience in Silicon Valley. Bootstrapped himself up after being raised by his grandmother Graduated from Yale Law School. Ticks the education credentials. Religious and maintains religious support. Young and tech savvy pulling in younger voters who are interested in policy on Bitcoin and similar tech. Pro gun. Says the right things to maintain the MAGA crowd and is yet sensible and moderate enough to calm the nerves of big behind the scenes Republicans who don't like the crazy MAGA base.

Picking J.D. Vance was either a masterstroke by Trump or a well vetted, intelligent pick by power players in the Republican Party who wanted a moderate, intelligent presence in the White House they can predict and talk to when Trump is throwing tantrums and acting crazy.

I'll be real surprised if Trump loses in November after this pick unless something unforeseen happens. Vance even has his biographical novel Hillbilly Elegy that tells his tale which is a real come up from nothing story that will appeal to believers in the American dream.

It was a very smart pick.

c_hawkbob wrote:Funny as hell you guys calling this guy a moderate. He doesn't have enough of a record to be considered anything but pro whatever benefits him the most. Gone from a never Trumper to a pro-MAGA bulldog because it's what gets him the most soonest. His best qualification is his willingness to do what Trumps last VP refused to do and sell out the constitution for the benefit of his boss.

Democratic Party doesn't believe in the Constitution anyway. Almost everything I hear out of their mouth is finding ways to undermine the Constitution and brand it as some document written by slave owning old white men that didn't have them in mind, so the document is only there to protect white men and they would just as soon as destroy it and replace with a document to their preference.

Listening to Democrats bring up the Constitution is like listening to an atheist bring up the Bible, only done when convenient when they mostly despise and don't respect the document.

Well, Riverdog, I concede. I think you are right. Trump is probably going to win again. J.D. Vance is no Pence. He's going to have huge appeal for so many reasons including nothing more than his youth and engaging nature.

Dems can continue to sell Trump as a super villain that Democrats like c-hawkbob buy into until another assassination attempt happens and they can try to sell J.D. Vance as Trump's stooge like is already being pushed, but he doesn't sound or look like any kind of stooge. Even made Trump seem heroic in his speech. He has major appeal that I don't see in any of the candidates including Trump. He knows how to show respect and build up Trump while showing he's his own man.

That is going to be one tough ticket for the Democrats to beat.

I never thought Trump would recover from January 6th, but he has. And the Democrats have no one to blame but themselves as their arch villain angle backfired on them.