If Obama was a white man......

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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:56 am

This "my way or no way at all" position that seems to have poisoned the Republican Party is disgraceful.


Ever thought of telling President "I won" about doing things others' way? Anyone considered asking the soon to be former Senate Majority Leader what he's planning to do with the 400-odd bills sent to the Senate from the House, the vast majority of which were bipartisan, and *all* of which he's refused to even allow a vote on?

I hold a lot of disdain for the "shutdown" crowd, too, but to portray the current gridlock as 100% a function of Republicans is pure nonsense.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:09 am

burrrton wrote:
Ever thought of telling President "I won" about doing things others' way? Anyone considered asking the soon to be former Senate Majority Leader what he's planning to do with the 400-odd bills sent to the Senate from the House, the vast majority of which were bipartisan, and *all* of which he's refused to even allow a vote on?

I hold a lot of disdain for the "shutdown" crowd, too, but to portray the current gridlock as 100% a function of Republicans is pure nonsense.


Really? watch the Senatorial or house vote counts some time and see who has more votes on the other side of the aisle on almost any issue. Not the synopsis with a commentator, the raw video of the vote counts as they come in.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:12 am

You don't have to do that, Bob- they'll tally the votes for you and post them.

I'm not saying Republicans are saints in this regard, but there is simply no argument Democrats haven't been just as bad.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:40 am

I'm sorry but I disagree. Perhaps not to the tune of 100%, but not far from it.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:00 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I'm sorry but I disagree. Perhaps not to the tune of 100%, but not far from it.


Then, respectfully, I don't think you've paid that close attention, my friend.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:15 am

Right back atcha.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:51 pm

Can't have compromise, that would look too much like the other side having success.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:04 pm

Both sides get, and deserve, criticism from both sides of the aisle for that and many other things, ObS.

Republicans and Democrats alike have kind of dug in their heels- that's what happens when political debate is replaced by demonization and calling everyone who disagrees with you a racist, or Kenyan, or terrorist, or... or... or...

However, "They won't do what I want" isn't an excuse to throw the rules to the wind, and while I think the President's EO is kind of a nothingburger on its face (the people weren't going anywhere anyway), and I'm a person that firmly believes immigration reform is needed that includes some kind of path to citizenship for non-criminals, an EO for something of this magnitude, with no 'intent of the law' argument anywhere in sight, is very, very shortsighted.

A POTUS isn't there to be pushed around by Congress, but neither is Congress there to simply rubber-stamp every idea a POTUS gets. Coequal branches of government and all that, right?
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:05 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Can't have compromise, that would look too much like the other side having success.


From your posts on such matters, I doubt that ever occurred to you when the President was saying "I won" (when refusing to consider R's recommendations) and other such well-poisoning acts over the years.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:45 pm

Have you heard about that "ideological bubble" people are often accused of living in (right and left), obs?

This is what they're talking about when they say it.

[edit]

Not fair to just leave it at that, so let's take an easy 'fer example' from the item you brought up- the "Gang of Eight" bill.

I'm no expert on it, but you apparently have no idea that one of the bigger criticisms of it, a reason many Repubs couldn't/wouldn't support it, was because of its vague, squishy language on border security.

Whatever your feelings on the immigration issue, do you really not see that a firm, concrete commitment to border security/enforcement is not only a reasonable request, but more importantly an absolute requirement for 'immigration reform' to do anything meaningful about the long-term problem?

It was a pretty reasonable criticism. The language *was* vague, and Napolitano had no real answers how to measure some of the commitments reliably. Add that it's exactly the type of politically tough measure that makes politician go weak-kneed and I think it's obvious the criticism was warranted.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:02 pm

Old but Slow wrote:R recommendations? Such as?

All I remember of the R's is Benghazi, IRS, and government shut down.


What part of asking for answers(that still haven't been given) for IRS targeting and snooping and lying repeatedly to the American people about the circumstances that cost us 2 Seals, an aide and a sitting ambassador do you have a problem with? Thats stuff OK with you? We could cover a few more topics if you like but I'm sure you already know the issues. You just dont care. Like I say its Nixonian but most of the media and public DON'T CARE. How do you feel about Obama-care architect John Gruber calling the voters "stupid" as an explanation for passing Obama-care, bragging about deceit because he likes the law.And the Dems are denying his role and in some cases claiming they dont know who he is as the montage of tape of them praising the man for years surfaces. Yeah those Dems they are just hunky dory and all about whats good for the nation alright. Please OBS. Really?

How stupid are we? Some of us are educated idiots to sit still for it. This president is destroying what is left of the shared power of the branches of government. He has a 37 % approval rating which means even 15% of his 2012 voters have had it. History will not view him kindly as a chief executive. And those of us who went to the polls to thoroughly repudiate his policies see him acting arrogant and omnipotent with his executive orders like it never happened and we feel frustrated, angry, and afraid for our nations future.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:49 pm

Hey, obs- are you aware who controls the Senate currently, and whose leader would then control what does or doesn't "see the light of day"?
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:53 pm

I firmly believe that most people here in the United States are centrist. They may be center- right or center- left but the key is that most people are middle of the road and are turned off by radicals whether from the left or the right.

It was wrong of the GOP to meet in a hotel in January of 2009 and decide to oppose Obama on every piece of legislation even if the new president adopted proposals that republicans themselves had previously been for and actively supported. Mitch McConnell actually said that his mission was to make Obama a one term president. They then put that plan into action and now cynically claim that Obama refused to work with them when it was they who refused all of the presidents efforts to forge bipartisan legislation. Those are indisputable FACTS.

For most of Obama's first term he urged both Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reed to add republican ideas to legislation in an effort to bring at least one republican to vote on legislation yet time and time again the leadership of the GOP told their republican members in congress that they would be targeted in the primaries when they tried to run for re-election. The GOP leadership did this because the radical TEA Party wing of the party had threatened both Boener and McConnell that they too would be targeted for removal if they ever, even one time passed ANY legislation that was supported by President Obama.

They did this even though many times this action, or inaction was detrimental to the citizens of our great country or to the nation as a whole. They didn't care, defeating the president by any means possible was their agenda and they never wavered.

But, President Obama was re-elected, but the GOP kept up the same tactic of opposing anything and everything Obama proposed, even if they had been previously for a particular piece of legislation. Now, I have had my beefs with both Obama and the democratic party but the GOP tactic of gridlocking congress was wrong and basically they were refusing to do the job they were sent to Washington to do.

But, guess what? It worked! They were rewarded by the electorate so they feel justified by all of their in action.

One of my beefs with President Obama is that he is not the leader he promised to be. he himself allowed the GIOP to walk all over him, especially his first two years. Time after time he unilaterally caved in to republican demands and had nothing to show for his showing of "good faith". Obama's style of negotiating with the GOP by surrendering his position was appalling. Oh, in when he wasn't doing that he was "leading from behind" by taking no real stand on issues before the congress and then under cutting democrats in congress by cutting bad deals behind their backs. Face it, the ACA was a very bad bill and one of the reasons it was a bad bill was because Obama insisted Pelosi and Reed adopt many of the proposed ideas of republicans in an effort to entice even ONE republican vote. Many of the parts of the ACA that everyone finds so odious, such as the mandate were republican ideas proposed by the right wing Heritage Foundation and/or KATO Institute. Early on, we were promised that there would be a "Public Option" so that we wouldn't have to go begging to the private insurance companies. Every time Obama was asked if he supported a public option he said he did, but he didn't once put his foot down and fight for one. Then it turns out he had already caved on the issue months before. One thing the GOP is right about Obama and that he doe lie a lot, and that has turned off a lot of people who once supported him, including me.

I strongly feel that neither of the two main political parties care about the issues I care about and are willing to support us working stiffs out there. Sure, they want our taxes, and then give all of our hard earned money to people who never worked a day in their life and don't plan to, sort of makes me feel like a chump. Then they want me and mine to support non citizens who broke the law to come here and expect to be rewarded for breaking the law. We pay for these criminal's children to go to our schools, pay for their children's meals, and pay for their children's health care. All of that money for those kids come at the expense of our legal citizens' children! We even allow them spots in our state universities and since there are only so many slots there are children of legal citizens who don't get a slot to a state college or university. It is a proven fact that granting amnesty only emboldens more and more people to break the law and pour across our open border, where does it end???

Name one OTHER nation on earth that seems to be expected to allow any and all who want to come and live in our country to come and do so, NAME ONE!!! Oh, and don't give me that B.S. that is on that plaque on the Statue of Liberty. That "send me your huddled masses" was put there by the French who gave us the statue as a gift.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:40 am

We are not in a border crisis with Mexico. Period.


I mostly agree- should one of us tell Obama?

Current flows of immigrants is almost neutral, in fact there are probably more going into Mexico, currently, than are coming into the US. Mexican economy is getting better, enforcement here is getting stronger, so it is not so attractive for the workers to come up here.


The flow did slow way down, but it hasn't been correlational with "enforcement"- it was mostly a function of our economy being in the crapper. Most seem to agree it's picking back up now (extremely hard to measure, which is also why Obama's claims of "deportations" are meaningless) along with (surprise!) our economy.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:29 am

Regardless what anyone thinks, if you ask me the whole government is fired and i personally DO NOT recognize them and never will until they actually serve and protect the people and quit trying to own the people. WE OWN THEM, not the other way around like they think. FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DECIDE FOR US!! F ALL OF THEM!!! THEY CAN ALL GO TO HELL!!!
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:09 pm

[quote="Old but Slow"]Not much said about the Republican led budget cuts to Embassy security in the two years before the attack. It was a tragedy, but the worst that can be said about the administrations handling of it was that they bungled the initial reporting by Susan Rice, but that was straightened out in about week.

The IRS? Lets not forget that both progressive and conservative organizations were audited and the only 2 organizations found to not deserve the tax break were both liberals.

And we have leaders like McConnell who insists that no bill see the light of day that will reflect positively on the President. In other words, party is more important than the country. The country can go in the ash can as long as Obama gets the blame. If there is a call to call "treason" I think it belongs elsewhere than the president.

And for what its worth, if the Repubs had nominated a real pro like John Huntsman, I would not have voted for BO.[/quote

I see you have your talking points down.Your views of these scandals is dismissive and naive. You are actually delusional if you think its Republicans who have stalled anything. The bills(over 300) sit on Harry Reids desk blocked from an up or down vote. And for that matter how many damn laws do we need? Lots of bad laws SHOULD be stopped.



Just out of curiosity if you didn't think a decorated war hero and and moderate legislator was a "pro" what was your little community organizer? If you dint think an extremely successful governor, businessman and the executive who saved the Salt Lake Olympic games(never took a wage for either job either) was not a "pro" what gave you the impression Obama was a"pro" especially after the disaster of his 1st term? What does "pro" mean to you?
Obama is a pro alright. A professional liar and an all star at it.

We have 0 common ground other than being concerned Americans and we are a microcosm of the majority of the nation so we are in trouble.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:00 pm

I thought it would be worth postingthat I *think* there's agreement Obama's actual EO avoided the Constitutional crisis many feared by (essentially) not giving his EO any teeth.

The DOJ OLC released the legal justification, and it basically concluded that the executive branch had to still be able deny the new protected status for any applicant for any reason at any time, even if he met every qualification.

So it's a "protected status" without any legal protection.

I'm betting the crisis is averted, and, kind of like I thought, it's mostly a nothingburger with a little more leeway for illegal aliens to operate.

Anyone else read it?
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:18 pm

Well I haven't read it but Ill take your word for it. So its kind of like the current law in that it isn't going to be enforced or actually work? I had heard agents are already being ordered to release illegals who are on deportation holds. Its a mess that no law will solve. It takes resolve and boots on the ground to make it work. Were going to hell in a hand basket IMO and its a snowball rolling downhill at this point. No stopping it.


GO HAWKS!!!! I think we can agree on that.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:32 pm

Sarah Palin? Dude have you heard Joe Biden speak? Its alarming hes a heartbeat away from the nuclear football.
At least she was easy on the eyes. Republican congressmen have referred to Biden as Obama's Impeachment insurance policy:)

Honestly OBS if we sat down and talked I have a feeling we agree on more than we think. Either way you are a gentleman, more so than me.
I agree money has taken over. But who do you believe? Obama has told so many lies OMG!!!All his friends are super wealthy and dont have to live by anything they impose on us. Repubs for the most part are no different.
In the top 15 congressmen the poorest is worth over 50 million dollars and its a bipartisan group with some big names on it. So when they talk about being for the working man..........Sure you betcha!. And Rand Paul,Ted Cruz? I agree with many libertarian positions but as a chief executive maybe not so much....I think we have in common that we voted and that we held our noses while doing so. We just disagreed which candidate stunk the worst...Its a sad state of affairs.

GO HAWKS BEAT MR POTATO NOSE SENSELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And a happy thanksgiving to all.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:57 am

Old but Slow wrote:Funny. I heard a Republican congressman last week when asked if they should impeach Obama, replied, "Have you met Joe Biden?" And you speak of lies, there is an old saying: "If you want to know if a politician is lying, see if his lips are moving." That works for all parties.

Hawktawk, if you can ever make it over here to Bellingham, I would love to buy you a beverage or two at my local pub, The Archer Ale House in Fairhaven. You could join the other conservatives here who look for opportunities to beat me up with their puny politics, but you better bring your A game, because I enjoy it. Good guys, know their Seahawks, and a few good jokes, and I value them greatly despite their short sighted view of the world. There are a few progressive types as well, and some of the best refreshments ever devised. It is a good convivial place, although a bit loud on Seahawk game days.

If you ever want a good view of what money in politics involves, get into the "pay to play" system that both of the major parties run. All major positions within the party and the body, such as speaker, whip, committee chair, or even committee member, require that that congressman pay the party they represent, because it is the parties that make the appointments. A speaker probably pays the party in the range of $15 to $20 million a year to hold the position. Where does that money come from? From fund raising, mostly from corporations, but also from unions, rich individuals, and PACs. And that money is beside what they have to raise to fund a reelection campaign. It is estimated that most members and their staffs, spend 70% of their working time fund raising. Would it not be better to have a system where those workers were spending most of their time on improving the country?


Most definitely!!!
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:47 am

All major positions within the party and the body, such as speaker, whip, committee chair, or even committee member, require that that congressman pay the party they represent, because it is the parties that make the appointments. A speaker probably pays the party in the range of $15 to $20 million a year to hold the position.


ObS... are you saying you believe, say, the Speaker of the House, or the Senate Majority Leader, pays their party $20M/year for the position??
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:27 pm

Er, don't bother looking too hard, ObS- somebody was filling you full of poo.

Even if it were plausible that this "contribution" would have remained a complete secret to everyone on the planet until now (well, except for whoever wrote your article), why would the RNC/DNC hold a show vote* instead of just saying they chose someone for The Good of the Party™ or some such hooey? *Nobody* would bat an eye at that.

They don't do any such thing, for heaven's sake. This doesn't mean money doesn't talk in politics just like it does in every other walk of life, but I'm sorry- that's nonsense.

*With the networks discussing who would and wouldn't vote for so-and-so as leader, and so on.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:31 am

Got a link, ObS, so I can dig for a citation?

What you describe there isn't a "PAY TO PlAY" scheme if it's simply "paying dues".

In other words, while I still don't know if it's real, but it would be reasonable for the DNC/RNC to think, say, Pelosi or Boehner should be able to browbeat donors for more money than junior members. That wouldn't, however, be fairly characterized as them having paid for their position when it's the position itself that affords them the ability to contribute.

So find me that link and I'll do a full mea culpa myself if this mysterious pay-to-play program exists.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:36 am

Old but Slow wrote:I admire your idealism, Burrton.


Thanks- I think it's a bit more "realism" than "idealism", though, ObS.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:41 pm

Well, after all that, I guess we can agree that full transparency would be a great development in politics.

Consider talking to the groups that s*** the bed when they find out someone supports someone they disagree with?
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:26 am

I wasn't just talking about the political parties with that statement, ObS. Witness the reactions of people when they find out someone donated to a cause they disagreed with (Chik-Fil-A, Mozilla CEO, the Koch brothers, and on and on).

I'm about the last person who would argue against someone being held to account for their actions, but if you're going to argue for people to lose their job because they, say, disagree with you on when life begins or because they support a pipeline being built, don't be too surprised if people get more reluctant to have their names made public.

This is a unique time in which both parties are reluctant to admit that they agree with any position that is taken by a member of the other party.


Yes, the "poisoned well" is a real phenomenon, and when a party spends years not stopping at simply disagreeing with the positions of the opposition party, but having to resort to over the top demonization of everything up to and including their motives and character, they lose any right to play the victim card when they decide to dig in.

Agree with you 100% that neither side has a monopoly on this behavior, though.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby monkey » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:08 pm

Old but Slow wrote:Can't even talk about it, but the President is a criminal because he makes a decision. He even offered to hold off if the House would act. Nada.

He is a criminal because he made an ILLEGAL decision, one he does NOT have the power to arbitrarily make!
You think he's a good guy for blackmailing congress to do something AGAINST the will of the people?
Saying that he would hold off from breaking the law, in order to force Congress to do something they were elected NOT to do makes him anything BUT good a good guy. It makes him an authoritarian who is OUT OF LINE with the US Constitution.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:18 pm

Old but Slow wrote:Obama's EO is within his executive powers, despite what the conservative commentators say. Here is a clear article that explains what he did and why it is not an overstepping of his authority:

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/22/7263043/o ... immigrants

Obama may not be overstepping his bounds legally but he is obviously poisoning the well with the incoming republican congress. He doesn't care what the people think. His decisions regarding health care,immigration, foreign policy etc make that clear.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:56 am

The same holds true for every other second term President regardless of party affiliation. They all wind up with an opposition party majority and they all welcome them in with a bunch of executive orders unpopular with that opposing party.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:09 am

They all wind up with an opposition party majority and they all welcome them in with a bunch of executive orders unpopular with that opposing party.


If you know of any that were this profound and this contentious by any stretch of the definitions, name them.

I know of none that were in direct violation of existing law and that absolutely took a *dump* on the process. And before you holler about Reagan and Bush41's EOs, theirs merely closed loopholes in existing law and they were supported almost unanimously (IIRC- correct me if I'm wrong).

This is a bad idea politically, it sets a horrible precedent, it's largely unnecessary at this time, it does *nothing* to solve the long-term issues with our crappy immigration system, and it virtually ensures that nothing *will* get done about it for the foreseeable future.

It's merely picking a fight and crossing your fingers that the fight will hurt the opposition more than you.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:26 am

fire them all and we won't have this problem. PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND GOV. WORKERS SHOULD NOT BE PAID, EVER!!! COMMUNITY PEOPLE, COMMUNITY. in the end it is the only way to go and how it all started with NO MONEY!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: You can all keep being brain washed into this nonsense if you like but there is a much better way of life that requires very little government intervention, if any at all. Gov. is to serve and protect the people not control us or boss anyone around. WE OWN THEM THEY DO NOT OWN US! If they think they own us, they can DIE!!! Tortured even for all i care! I would gladly die to protect the people would you? And not under your traditional military. Probably not because you are all TOO caught up in you fantasy of a life of self absorbed monetary influence.

Go ahead and try to blast me, it won't do you any good. Unbrainwash yourselves, the truth is right there in front of your eye balls!!!
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:47 am

WE OWN THEM THEY DO NOT OWN US! If they think they own us, they can DIE!!! Tortured even for all i care!


Winning the hearts and minds, eh, town?

Go ahead and try to blast me


You're doing a great job of that yourself.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:55 am

lol, burrrton. I'm not concerned with earning anyones hearts or minds. People need to search the truth themselves.

Thanks for letting me vent!!! :D just a concerned citizen who would fight and die for YOU to THINK AND LIVE FREELY but if i did it alone i would be made to look crazy. People as a whole are too caught up in life's monetary "boundaries" to even realize what this place has become. Not something i really want to get into, i tried talking sense into people before but they are too scared of change in their lives. Plus i have no time to go back and forth as i too am stuck in this mess and very busy. I have become more self sustainable over the last few years but unfortunately money is still necessary to keep a property and a house with water and power. :roll:
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:12 am

I have become more self sustainable over the last few years but unfortunately money is still necessary to keep a property and a house with water and power.


Nothing wrong with becoming more "sustainable", but that system of "money" you refer to so flippantly has led to the highest standard of living in the history of this little blue dot we live on.

I'm not sure your dismissal of it as some form of necessary evil is appropriate.

Thanks for letting me vent!!!


No prob. We all know how it is.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:42 am

burrrton wrote:
If you know of any that were this profound and this contentious by any stretch of the definitions, name them.


They've all been, the difference is how whiney the opposition has gotten.

burrrton wrote:I know of none that were in direct violation of existing law and that absolutely took a *dump* on the process.


I don't believe this. I hear it said and I hear it refuted, I've never hears the specific laws that are supposedly being broken.

burrrton wrote:This is a bad idea politically, it sets a horrible precedent, it's largely unnecessary at this time, it does *nothing* to solve the long-term issues with our crappy immigration system, and it virtually ensures that nothing *will* get done about it for the foreseeable future.

It's merely picking a fight and crossing your fingers that the fight will hurt the opposition more than you.


All personal opinion (to which you are certainly entitled), not fact. This precedent was so set long ago it's become a time honored tradition.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:01 pm

They've all been, the difference is how whiney the opposition has gotten.


Then name them so we can discuss.

I've never hears the specific laws that are supposedly being broken.


Mildly oversimplifying, current law doesn't allow for the people he's giving work permits to have them. He's not simply declining to prosecute (we've been doing that forever now, arguably justly, which is why they're still here)- he's going outside what the law allows and working against the intent of the legislative branch.

Reagan/Bush41 simply took care of an unintended consequence of the law, acting *with* the intent of the legislative branch to enact the amnesty they had granted, but filling in the statutory gaps (eg. children of parents who had been here the required length of time).

This precedent was so set long ago it's become a time honored tradition.


EOs have- this kind of action being done with an EO hasn't.

All personal opinion


Sure, but I also think they're inarguable:

Bad idea politically- you think this is going to *improve* the political situation?

Horrible precedent- are you going to be applauding if a Republican POTUS issues an EO saying felons can concealed-carry? You think that would be good for our country?

Largely unnecessary- is it essential that these people get work permits *now* instead of waiting for actual IR to work its way through, which both sides of the aisle want?

Doesn't solve long-term issues- you think *this* is the 'reform' our crppy system needed?

Ensures nothing will get done- you think this will make people more likely to work with him when he essentially gives them the finger?
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Nothing wrong with becoming more "sustainable", but that system of "money" you refer to so flippantly has led to the highest standard of living in the history of this little blue dot we live on.


the bold maybe the highest in history but not necessarily the way to go. Over control and wage slavery to keep people right where they want them is one of the biggest issues holding back the world and overall equality. we do not need money, IMO. People will invent new things regardless of money. We could still have everything we have now and then some. I know it sounds crazy and most can't see past what they have been brainwashed into thinking, but it is entirely possible.

BTW, the torture thing was a bit over the top but this country has me pissed. I also am an eye for an eye type guy and if they think they want to torture us in such sneaky ways like our food, then to hell with them, they get what they deserve. CARMA! ;)
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:05 pm

People will invent new things regardless of money.


How many examples throughout history do you have of people inventing and producing products for others for shts and giggles (or being able to produce everything they need without any contribution from others)?

We could still have everything we have now and then some.


How?

I also am an eye for an eye type guy and if they think they want to torture us in such sneaky ways like our food


I think you seriously need to consider your choice of language more carefully if you ever hope to influence anyone.

People who've been actually tortured might want to talk to you about throwing that word around. Over-using a word to include anything and everything you don't like diminishes it (see also: "racist", "terrorist", "hate speech", "sexist", "rape", etc).
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:25 pm

There are examples of people creating many things we cherish today that would be invented regardless of money. Hell I would be one of them trying to invent something if given resources. Of course I can't prove that because money has always been a factor. It takes a community of people to accomplish things regardless of money. If we all worked together, it could be done. Nothing ever accomplished had to have money to get done. They only make you think it was needed. Create a place to learn, people will come. Someone will want to teach. I think you would find that you would get a better outcome if you had people doing things that they were interested in, instead of being forced to find a "career" or in it for the money. It would be who actually wants to do it.

I cannot reconsider the choice of my language because it is true which i can prove but it would take pages and pages to do so. It all starts with food and medicine. The food is so devoid of nutrient that we are all getting sick at an alarming rate, not to mention the poisons in 99% of the food found on the grocery store shelves. The medicine that they give people also has some of those poisons in them along with yeasts and heavy metals that has no business in your body, not to mention that their medicine is only to prevent symptoms not cure where cure is very possible using organic natural medicine free of poison or side effects. Baby formula is one of the MOST DANGEROUS things you could ever give to a baby!!! So now we are being told that our kids generation will be the first to have the parents outlive their kids while the parents will end up with cancers or some other viruses. If you don't consider this slow, life long torture, then i don't know what is. Add in the monetary system that holds good hard working people back, it's like twisting the knife in the wound. I call that PHYSICAL AND MENTAL TORTURE!! This is only the beginning!!!

Anyway, i respect your view, i just don't agree.

To keep this on topic, I will add that Obama or any president for that matter, could publicly address these matters but more than likely is advised not to. This is where they lose me and I can no longer recognize them as an actual government.
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Re: If Obama was a white man......

Postby Hawktown » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:40 pm

on top of torture, i will add in GENOCIDE by the government and it's corporate affiliates!!!
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