Russell Wilson

[RiverDog]

Obi
Russ spent 2 years pressuring Seattle to trade him . The trade happened because he wanted out . He had a no trade clause .
As for being better off without him we unquestionably are . Geno is lapping him statistically in every category and our offense is statistically better than it was a year ago . It’s a fact . I was right . Addition by subtraction . You’re an awesome fan obi but the Russ we ALL loved left long before this trade he demanded to the #1 team on he and his sleazy agents list . I have no sympathy . I’m glad as hell he’s gone . Good luck Denver . You deal with his BS now .

It was one year and two off seasons that Russell was lobbying for a trade. He started making noise after the 2020 season, or in March of 2021, when his agent came out with the list of 4 teams.

I'm not necessarily 'glad' that he's gone, but I was getting tired of his pollyannish style, everything is rainbows and unicorns, constantly talking in cliches, overly concerned about his image. I was ready for a change.

[Hawktawk]

Hindsight is 2020. Better actually . When it went down it was a process for me from shock to sadness to resignation. Then the dirt started coming out about how disruptive he was , his agent cursing out Pete and john after wins if Russ didn’t get to throw enough . Then the leaks from former teammates about the fractured relationship . Then he started throwing shade on my team , my guys , my town . Then the season started . I expected addition by subtraction , said it 100 times right here . But I didn’t expect top ten play by the qb. I thought he would be good enough to win 10 if everyone did their job including run game and at least a decent defense . Geno is top 10 in everything , top 5 or better in most . If everyone does their job we’re winning 12.
We just need some D to compete this year .
I’m delighted Russ is gone , delighted he’s let his mouth overload his Nether region . In hindsight he won 2 wild card games and played like crap in the divisional last 2 years of LOB, had 1 playoff win since they broke up , 5 years ago vs 40 year old Josh McCown .

In hindsight I wonder how we might have done with a less flashy but more disciplined qb on that loaded team . When “ I want to win 3 or 4 more championships “ going to a winning city “ not all on my shoulders anymore “ and a career bust is in your old job smoking you like a cheap joint it’s all fair game now in hindsight .

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree with most of that. Denver's primary problem is coaching/structure, and as such, is fixable. But they'd better get their chit together pretty soon as they won't be facing anemic offenses like they have with the Colts, Niners, and Texans. Next up are the Chargers, with one of the more dynamic young quarterbacks and an offense ranked 7th in the league.

I really don't care about who's right or who's wrong about Russell and/or Pete. Both are sucking.

I don't want Denver to get their s*** together this year. I want Denver to suck all year. After that, then I don't care. I am going to cheer for Denver to suck all year.

I'm glad they hired a crap coach. I'm glad Russ is having problems adjusting. I want Denver to crash and burn super hard.

[Aseahawkfan]

Elway ready to blow a fuse

Like Elway didn't make us miserable for years. I hope he is blowing a fuse. I want to smile at Elway as we make our top Five pick next year. As far as a Seattle fan goes to Denver fans, "Payback is a b****. Karma is giving us a sweet amount of payback fleecing you guys for rebuilds."

[RiverDog]

I agree with most of that. Denver's primary problem is coaching/structure, and as such, is fixable. But they'd better get their chit together pretty soon as they won't be facing anemic offenses like they have with the Colts, Niners, and Texans. Next up are the Chargers, with one of the more dynamic young quarterbacks and an offense ranked 7th in the league.

I really don't care about who's right or who's wrong about Russell and/or Pete. Both are sucking.

I don't want Denver to get their s*** together this year. I want Denver to suck all year. After that, then I don't care. I am going to cheer for Denver to suck all year.

I'm glad they hired a crap coach. I'm glad Russ is having problems adjusting. I want Denver to crash and burn super hard.

Oh, I am, too. I was speaking from the Broncos perspective, not that of my own.

[Hawktawk]

Just saw a tweet from Matt Flynn . “ I could have done that “ the internet is blowing up with shots at Russell’s dreadful year and awful game . Lots of well known commentators taking shots .

Kyle Brandt said on GMFB today that Russ has one of the least authentic personalities in the league , called him phony, a poser . He added he’s a good guy as a person but not as a teammate . He said if you’re gonna make 250 million you better be loved by your teammates or you better be really really good . Or both and he cited guys like Brady , Mahomes , Allen . His insinuation is Russ is neither right now . Basically he thinks this is going to blow up soon in Denver .

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't agree that "most of the move was not his (Russell's) fault". He had a no trade clause in his contract. The way he so enthusiastically embraced his new team almost from the minute the trade was announced tells me that he was the primary motivator in the trade. He was happier than a three peckered billy goat in a herd of sheep to be getting out of Seattle.

I'm 50/50 on whether or not we are better off in the long run W/O Russell. My position before the season started was that even though Russell's performance had been diminishing over the past couple of years, that under the right coach, he could adjust his game and fix the problems that was holding him and the team back, which is why I wanted Pete gone as I saw nothing but continued mediocrity by maintaining the status quo. Now, I'm not so sure. It's still early, but I'm being led to the conclusion that Russell could be irrevocably broken.

One thing that I am shoulder-to-shoulder with HT on is that I am not shedding a single tear for Russell. It's one of those "be careful what you wish for: You might get it!" I honestly couldn't give a rip if he makes the HOF or not. He's already filthy rich and has lived a life the rest of us can only dream of, and if he's wearing a gold jacket someday, then that's fine. If not, that's OK, too.

My feeling which I hope is wrong is I think the Super Bowl era team is over and we're in for a pro-longed period of mediocrity. I think Russ is never going to win a Super Bowl again. I think Pete and John are done and are going to drag this out a few more years before ownership ships them out. I think the Russell Wilson trade is going to mark the end of the best era of Seahawks football in our history. I don't think Pete and John have another rebuild in them. I think it would have been true whether or not we kept Russ. So as far as the trade we made to start a new rebuild, great trade for a good amount of draft capital that we will hopefully keep around for another rebuild when Pete leaves. But who knows, this Russell trade years from now may be nothing more than the memory of the end of the greatest era Seahawks football ever and the start of prolonged mediocrity.

A lot of Seattle fans may have forgotten, but I have not. It was Paul Allen that turned the Seahawks around and made them into a great destination for top coaches and a contender. Paul Allen had no patience for prolonged losing. He wasn't interested in just "owning the local team" , he wanted to give Seattle fans one of the best run football franchise in the NFL. He was committed to finding us the best coach possible and having a contending playoff team consistently. Paul Allen is the real reason the Seahawks went from a culture of mediocrity to a culture of winning. Paul Allen demanded that from the top down. He made the moves to ensure Seattle was contending. Paul Allen was the source of Seattle's new winning culture. Not Mike Holmgren. Not Pete Carroll. Not John Schneider.

Well, Paul Allen is gone. Now I don't know what's going to happen with this team. I have no clue how committed or drive Jodi Allen is to win. If the team is sold, I hope it is to another owner with the drive and intelligence to win like Paul Allen. When our great players leave or retire, you miss what they brought to the field and cheer for them for all the great years. Someday when we think back to this time, we'll cheer Russ and Sherm and Pete and all the guys who made this era great. But we all know players and coaches come and go. But the loss of Paul Allen is the loss I feel the most. He was the source of the new Seahawks winning culture. Now with Paul Allen gone, I can't be sure of anything.

With Paul Allen as the owner, I was confident that no matter what happened Paul was going to get it turned around and back on the right track. Now Paul is gone and I can't be sure of anything. I don't feel good about Seattle right now. And I won't until we get a new committed owner truly committed to winning who understands how NFL teams work and the idea of a shelf life for a head coach and GM. Right now it seems like Carroll and Schneider can just do whatever they want and no one is watching closely to ensure things are managed with a new competitive cycle in mind. Right now if Paul Allen were alive, Carroll would be on a timer and this multiple years of poor defensive play would not be tolerated.

But now we have Jodi Allen as part of a committee running from a trust. She seems to be of the mind to just let Carroll do whatever without much oversight. I don't like the feel of that at all. I don't like not knowing what happens next if Carroll fails to turn things around. I don't like not knowing if the team is going to be sold or what the specific criteria are for that sale. I won't feel great until the ownership situation is worked out and we have a new owner committed to a winning culture like Paul Allen was.

[Aseahawkfan]

Apparently KJ Hamler was wide open near the goal line, but Wilson tried to play hero ball instead.
It's baffling why he didn't scan the field when that alarm went off in his head to get rid of the ball. Hamler claims he could have walked in for the TD.

You can't see everyone. I like Russ. I still think he's a great QB. But I also think he needs a coach who pushes him and has a sound team structure. Right now he has a coach who plans to leave Russ alone and let him carry the load. That is not how good head coaches work. Even Bill B with Tom Brady did not let Tom do whatever he wanted and Tom is an amazing QB. I'm quite sure as much as people claim it Dungy did not do that with Peyton. If you want to be a good head coach, you run the team, not the players.

I don't think Nathaniel Hackett can figure out why he can't get things to work. Whereas if Denver had a Sean Payton or a Bill B or a Pete Carroll, they would figure out why things we're not working and adjust.

If Denver gets a truly high quality coach and Russ still sucks, then I'll say Russ truly sucks. But right now I think Denver as a whole has a wholly inadequate coach who is in far over his head and doesn't know how to fix the problems he's dealing with.

[obiken]

Just saw a tweet from Matt Flynn . “ I could have done that “ the internet is blowing up with shots at Russell’s dreadful year and awful game . Lots of well known commentators taking shots .

Kyle Brandt said on GMFB today that Russ has one of the least authentic personalities in the league , called him phony, a poser . He added he’s a good guy as a person but not as a teammate . He said if you’re gonna make 250 million you better be loved by your teammates or you better be really really good . Or both and he cited guys like Brady , Mahomes , Allen . His insinuation is Russ is neither right now . Basically he thinks this is going to blow up soon in Denver .

Matt Flynn is an idiot and needs to shut the flock up. He got paid a boatload at the time and was nothing. Russ's deep ball is not what it used to be, like Cowherd was saying that was his out pitch, it would be like taking Kershaw's curve away. He needs to run more,but he wants to last longer as a Drew Breez type pocket passer, he is not. He is going to have to find a hybrid style that wins games. This season is over for the Broncos. They lost their #2 WR at the start of the season, they lost their #1 running back, and players on the offense and defense are going down like flies. Most of all the coach needs to go. Yeah everyone is piling on now. Dont forget, Russ was putting up amazing numbers as our defense was eroding.

[RiverDog]

Just saw a tweet from Matt Flynn . “ I could have done that “ the internet is blowing up with shots at Russell’s dreadful year and awful game . Lots of well known commentators taking shots .

Kyle Brandt said on GMFB today that Russ has one of the least authentic personalities in the league , called him phony, a poser . He added he’s a good guy as a person but not as a teammate . He said if you’re gonna make 250 million you better be loved by your teammates or you better be really really good . Or both and he cited guys like Brady , Mahomes , Allen . His insinuation is Russ is neither right now . Basically he thinks this is going to blow up soon in Denver .

Yep. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Russell has craved attention all his career and has never missed an opportunity to get his mug in front of the cameras and microphones, always trying to coin a phrase and polish his image. Now, when things aren't going well, the worm has turned. The Broncos have played 3 of their first 5 games on national TV, and Russell hasn't looked good in any of them, and last night was the worst. Now he's paying the price as jackals like Brandt are smelling blood and a good story to sell, capitalize on all that angst in Denver. I don't feel sorry for Russell one little bit. Like I said, be careful what you wish for.

It's ironic as Denver isn't in that bad of shape as they're 2-3. Can you imagine the reaction if they were 0-5? The Broncos have 12 games left, 7 within their division, and plenty of time to right what's wrong. They have a mini bye this week, so it will help them to do a bit of a reset, get out of the news for a week. There's gotta be a lot of soul searching going on in the Mile High City about now.

[Agent 86]

Just saw a tweet from Matt Flynn . “ I could have done that “ the internet is blowing up with shots at Russell’s dreadful year and awful game . Lots of well known commentators taking shots .

Kyle Brandt said on GMFB today that Russ has one of the least authentic personalities in the league , called him phony, a poser . He added he’s a good guy as a person but not as a teammate . He said if you’re gonna make 250 million you better be loved by your teammates or you better be really really good . Or both and he cited guys like Brady , Mahomes , Allen . His insinuation is Russ is neither right now . Basically he thinks this is going to blow up soon in Denver .

Here is a linky to the article about Kyle Brandt calling him out. I like Kyle Brandt and didn't think he was the kind to say something this harsh about Wilson, but oh man, he didn't hold back. Obviously has something to do with the whole NFL Honors thing where Wilson and his SO dissed him.

I gotta tell ya, I am absolutely lovin this right now. Through 4 weeks + 1 game, this trade couldn't look any better. Obviously lots of time and years left but for now, this is gold. To be called the "least authentic person" in the NFL is harsh. And I really believe this is how teammates viewed him in Seattle for quite a while. That rubs people wrong and no doubt that locker room was never in unison.

https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/kyle-brandt-calls-russell-wilson-a-poser-after-broncos-loss/

[Aseahawkfan]

People are really piling on Russ right now. But that's the cost to be the boss. You gotta deal with it and fix things or watch your enemies and detractors take their shots when they can. Apparently there were more than a handful of people waiting like vultures for Russ to show some weakness. They see that weakness and are taking their shots while they can.

[Hawktawk]

Obi halfway through 2020 I thought he was gonna win MVP and then he threw 11 picks in 11 games and blamed Carroll for holding him back . I have no idea what happened to him. But it started long before that , the fans just didn’t know . Russ was incredible for awhile , did things I never saw before , one of the best deep balls of all time . But when I learned his agent would drop f bombs on our GM if Pete didn’t let him throw more in wins ….because Russ was reportedly “ obsessed “ with winning MVP. Sorry man the love affair is over for this fan of over 4 decades because there’s no I in team . As for 22 Russ he’s got more issues than a deep ball . Hamler was wide open but it was clear Wilson locked on to Sutton and waited for him to clear and never looked anywhere else . When Hamler drops a rock on the head of his quarter billion man you know it’s bad .
I said Russ was on the back 9 and Geno would be better then people thought he was going to be . I’ve been far more correct about both then I thought . I think Wilson is toast and I think he don’t even care cause he’s got 160 million guaranteed.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think both Pete and Russ are likely done.

You got a former Pro Bowl QB leading an offense scoring 15 points a game.

And you have a head coach with a defensive background with a 31st ranked defense giving up 45 points to the Detroit Lions.

I think Pete and Russ might both be out of the league within a few years if they don't both get things turned around. Fact is both Seattle and Denver have played crappy with the Denver at 2 and 3 and Seattle at 2 and 2 when both could easily be 0 and 4. Both got smoked by division opponents. Seahawks were smoked by Frisco 27 to 7 with those 7 points coming on a blocked punt. And Denver got smoked by the 0 and 3 Raiders. Somehow Denver beat Frisco. So not much is making sense right now.

If people wanted to be real about things, neither Seattle nor Denver are looking like much of a threat for doing anything other than competing for a top draft position. Only difference being Seattle was expected to suck and are sucking and Denver was expecting to compete but they are sucking. It's the first quarter of the season, so both teams have time to do something.

All I know is Pete Carroll better get this defense turned around or he's not going to be looking much better than Wilson if he can't. This poor defensive play cannot continue, not even for the rest of this year or ownership really needs to be taking a long look at Carroll.

[obiken]

It was one year and two off seasons that Russell was lobbying for a trade. He started making noise after the 2020 season, or in March of 2021, when his agent came out with the list of 4 teams.

I'm not necessarily 'glad' that he's gone, but I was getting tired of his pollyannish style, everything is rainbows and unicorns, constantly talking in cliches, overly concerned about his image. I was ready for a change.

Even you Brutus, even you! Lol! Come on River, you and I have seen this too many times. Its a little early to start the coronation of Geno Smith as our next franchise QB, when all he has done is made a meal out of defenses that are as bad as ours. EVEN IF he had won all the games its only part of a season. What concerns me on Russ is the house with 18 bathrooms, really hurt his image! IF Russ thinks he can just throw from the pocket like Drew Breeze he is delusional. I just want to say that there a lot of reasons for his struggles this year, but I wouldnt get too sold out on Geno Smith just yet.

[RiverDog]

It was one year and two off seasons that Russell was lobbying for a trade. He started making noise after the 2020 season, or in March of 2021, when his agent came out with the list of 4 teams.

I'm not necessarily 'glad' that he's gone, but I was getting tired of his pollyannish style, everything is rainbows and unicorns, constantly talking in cliches, overly concerned about his image. I was ready for a change.

Even you Brutus, even you! Lol! Come on River, you and I have seen this too many times. Its a little early to start the coronation of Geno Smith as our next franchise QB, when all he has done is made a meal out of defenses that are as bad as ours. EVEN IF he had won all the games its only part of a season. What concerns me on Russ is the house with 18 bathrooms, really hurt his image! IF Russ thinks he can just throw from the pocket like Drew Breeze he is delusional. I just want to say that there a lot of reasons for his struggles this year, but I wouldnt get too sold out on Geno Smith just yet.

Where was it that I said that Geno was our next franchise QB? I haven't even acknowledged him as a competent starting quarterback yet.

[Aseahawkfan]

Even you Brutus, even you! Lol! Come on River, you and I have seen this too many times. Its a little early to start the coronation of Geno Smith as our next franchise QB, when all he has done is made a meal out of defenses that are as bad as ours. EVEN IF he had won all the games its only part of a season. What concerns me on Russ is the house with 18 bathrooms, really hurt his image! IF Russ thinks he can just throw from the pocket like Drew Breeze he is delusional. I just want to say that there a lot of reasons for his struggles this year, but I wouldnt get too sold out on Geno Smith just yet.

Obi, it may turn out Russ is done. But it may just turn out he isn't quite clicking with this new offense and the Denver players and it may just suddenly kick in at some point during the season.

I know people ignore my posts on the subject, but I did a pretty good look at Denver and they have a terrible O-line. And it's showing up on the offense. Russ is getting straight skittish. He also lacks timing with his receivers which as we all know takes some time to build. On top of that what isn't being talked about is scoring is down across the league. Not sure why, but I'm betting it has to do with all the preseason and training camp changes which don't allow hitting and real blocking and such. Offensive preparation for the real speed of the game is going to take some time for some teams to catch up. A lot of people are jumping the gun on a lot of who is good and who is bad and we'll see if that maintains. It's very early in the season.

Even Aaron Rodgers is looking like garbage pedestrian for him. Detroit is looking like the best offense in the NFL. Miami was looking amazing to start. The Eagles are the only undefeated team. The NFC East has three 3 and 1 teams. Frisco is winning with the best defense in the NFL at the moment. It's an odd start to a season with a really strange preseason and training camp. It feels like these first four games for a lot of teams were preseason games because they didn't play much in the preseason.

I'm going to watch the year play out, see what it looks like at the end before I make many assessments other than Carroll needs to get this defense turned around and fast.

[RiverDog]

One other fun fact that I just realized. The Broncos next game, Week 6 in LA vs. the Chargers, will be on Monday Night Football. That will make 4 of the Broncos' first 6 games played in Prime Time in front of a national TV audience. As a comparison, during the same time span, last year's two SB participants ie Rams and Bengals, will have each played in Prime Time just twice.

If Russell turns it around, plays well and the Broncos win, the national TV audience will help him regain some lost respect. If not.....well, I'll let you fill in the blanks.

[RiverDog]

Obi, it may turn out Russ is done. But it may just turn out he isn't quite clicking with this new offense and the Denver players and it may just suddenly kick in at some point during the season.

I know people ignore my posts on the subject, but I did a pretty good look at Denver and they have a terrible O-line.

I wouldn't make that assumption. I read your comments, and basically agreed with them. If I didn't, I likely would have said something. Posters have a tendency to respond to comments that they disagree with more than they do those they're in agreement with.

And it's showing up on the offense. Russ is getting straight skittish. He also lacks timing with his receivers which as we all know takes some time to build. On top of that what isn't being talked about is scoring is down across the league. Not sure why, but I'm betting it has to do with all the preseason and training camp changes which don't allow hitting and real blocking and such. Offensive preparation for the real speed of the game is going to take some time for some teams to catch up. A lot of people are jumping the gun on a lot of who is good and who is bad and we'll see if that maintains. It's very early in the season.

I agree. Russell isn't seeing the entire field. On the last play in Thursday's game, he had a wide open receiver, KJ Hamler, for an easy TD, but instead, he tried to jam it into a tight window in a congested and compressed defense against their best cover corner, Stephen Gilmore, who had already picked him off. IMO He's overconfident and it's causing him not to go through his progressions, locking into his first option.

Even Aaron Rodgers is looking like garbage pedestrian for him. Detroit is looking like the best offense in the NFL. Miami was looking amazing to start. The Eagles are the only undefeated team. The NFC East has three 3 and 1 teams. Frisco is winning with the best defense in the NFL at the moment. It's an odd start to a season with a really strange preseason and training camp. It feels like these first four games for a lot of teams were preseason games because they didn't play much in the preseason.

I'm going to watch the year play out, see what it looks like at the end before I make many assessments other than Carroll needs to get this defense turned around and fast.

As we've discussed, this season is strange. As a rule, by this time, clear favorites and face plants have begun to emerge. This season, 16 teams, half the league, have a .500 record (the Colts' win Thursday gave them a 2-2-1 record). No team has lost their first 4 games (the Texans are 0-3-1). We have just one undefeated team, the Eagles. Teams that were crappy last season, like the Jags, Jets, and Giants, have looked good. The Cowboys lost their first game and their quarterback, yet they've won 3 in a row with their backup QB. It's weird, very unpredictable.

[Hawktawk]

I think both Pete and Russ are likely done.

You got a former Pro Bowl QB leading an offense scoring 15 points a game.

And you have a head coach with a defensive background with a 31st ranked defense giving up 45 points to the Detroit Lions.

I think Pete and Russ might both be out of the league within a few years if they don't both get things turned around. Fact is both Seattle and Denver have played crappy with the Denver at 2 and 3 and Seattle at 2 and 2 when both could easily be 0 and 4. Both got smoked by division opponents. Seahawks were smoked by Frisco 27 to 7 with those 7 points coming on a blocked punt. And Denver got smoked by the 0 and 3 Raiders. Somehow Denver beat Frisco. So not much is making sense right now.

If people wanted to be real about things, neither Seattle nor Denver are looking like much of a threat for doing anything other than competing for a top draft position. Only difference being Seattle was expected to suck and are sucking and Denver was expecting to compete but they are sucking. It's the first quarter of the season, so both teams have time to do something.

All I know is Pete Carroll better get this defense turned around or he's not going to be looking much better than Wilson if he can't. This poor defensive play cannot continue, not even for the rest of this year or ownership really needs to be taking a long look at Carroll.

I think Pete has to be around 500 this year or Jodi will fire him . Had he and Russ and Penny not closed 21 like they did Russ might still be here and Pete gone . This was a close call. Pete has authorization for a 1 year rebuild , maybe 2. I know he’s had.10 million reasons to come back but Pete is about winning . The injuries ,especially Adams derailed this defense along with a new scheme but there’s pieces . Even in a dreadful overall effort our young rooks showed up . We have a corner named “ cheat code”. Now we get Dalton . There’s a better chance we will have a great defense this year then Denver having a great offense ever with this combination of Hackett and Russ . Hackett may face the task of being the man to bench Russell Wilson if he plays any worse or face a team revolt .

[Hawktawk]

And anyone who can’t accept a teams NFL and Seahawks record setting qb isn’t a competent starting qb is just allergic to crow . Denver’s players would switch right now , Indy’s too .

It’s Insulting to Geno and the work he’s done , also to Pete and John for the master stroke of trading an icon for a kings ransom and replacing him with a career failure who is playing at an elite level for 10 cents on the dollar . I’m thrilled we have Geno and so are his teammates . If you can’t root for the story check yourself .

[RiverDog]

I think both Pete and Russ are likely done.

You got a former Pro Bowl QB leading an offense scoring 15 points a game.

And you have a head coach with a defensive background with a 31st ranked defense giving up 45 points to the Detroit Lions.

I think Pete and Russ might both be out of the league within a few years if they don't both get things turned around. Fact is both Seattle and Denver have played crappy with the Denver at 2 and 3 and Seattle at 2 and 2 when both could easily be 0 and 4. Both got smoked by division opponents. Seahawks were smoked by Frisco 27 to 7 with those 7 points coming on a blocked punt. And Denver got smoked by the 0 and 3 Raiders. Somehow Denver beat Frisco. So not much is making sense right now.

If people wanted to be real about things, neither Seattle nor Denver are looking like much of a threat for doing anything other than competing for a top draft position. Only difference being Seattle was expected to suck and are sucking and Denver was expecting to compete but they are sucking. It's the first quarter of the season, so both teams have time to do something. It's pure speculation on both our parts.

All I know is Pete Carroll better get this defense turned around or he's not going to be looking much better than Wilson if he can't. This poor defensive play cannot continue, not even for the rest of this year or ownership really needs to be taking a long look at Carroll.

I think Pete has to be around 500 this year or Jodi will fire him . Had he and Russ and Penny not closed 21 like they did Russ might still be here and Pete gone . This was a close call. Pete has authorization for a 1 year rebuild , maybe 2. I know he’s had.10 million reasons to come back but Pete is about winning . The injuries ,especially Adams derailed this defense along with a new scheme but there’s pieces . Even in a dreadful overall effort our young rooks showed up . We have a corner named “ cheat code”. Now we get Dalton . There’s a better chance we will have a great defense this year then Denver having a great offense ever with this combination of Hackett and Russ . Hackett may face the task of being the man to bench Russell Wilson if he plays any worse or face a team revolt .

I'm not sure if Jodi is making the calls herself, if she's relying on advice from the execs at Vulcan, or if she's consulting an Ouija board. My sense is that she's rather detached and relies on the people around her to make the calls, but I have no way of proving that. She had plenty of justification to fire Pete last season when he posted a sub .500 season and had a falling out with the franchise QB but she opted to stick it out. I see no pattern in her behavior that would cause me to think that she would fire him following a .500 season. It's pure speculation on both our parts.

[Hawktawk]

There’s a few things that tell me she’s very involved . 1 was her house cleaning of the Portland Trail Blazers a year after they advanced to the conference finals .

The mid season meeting she called when we hit 2-8 ( Pete admits he doesn’t ever initiate contact with her , it’s John that has the relationship with her ).

Her statement about the trade “ we wanted people who are all in” was far and away the harshest comment by an involved party as Pete and John were perfunctory but polite and expressed gratitude in public comments .

I sat and read from about everyone on the forum how she’s this detached feeble person that let Pete and John trick her into trading our franchise qb . She was all in on a brilliant trade . She’s a genius owner , john is executive of the year and Pete has a team he can win 10 with already .
Jodi is up to speed .

[RiverDog]

There’s a few things that tell me she’s very involved . 1 was her house cleaning of the Portland Trail Blazers a year after they advanced to the conference finals .

The mid season meeting she called when we hit 2-8 ( Pete admits he doesn’t ever initiate contact with her , it’s John that has the relationship with her ).

Her statement about the trade “ we wanted people who are all in” was far and away the harshest comment by an involved party as Pete and John were perfunctory but polite and expressed gratitude in public comments .

I sat and read from about everyone on the forum how she’s this detached feeble person that let Pete and John trick her into trading our franchise qb . She was all in on a brilliant trade . She’s a genius owner , john is executive of the year and Pete has a team he can win 10 with already .
Jodi is up to speed .

You're still speculating, guessing that her decisions with the Blazers will translate to the Seahawks. Maybe it's analogous, maybe not. There are a lot of differences between the two businesses. Does she have the same advisors for the Blazers as she does the Hawks?

No one, including myself, knows enough about Jody Allen to pronounce her a genius or a moron. Like her brother, she is very reclusive, and we don't have much of a track record by which to predict her actions.

[Hawktawk]

All we can do is read between the lines. The statement is most telling . That’s not something a figurehead placeholder would say . I think it took a lot of courage to make the move she clearly signed off on and approved . If you want to see a clueless owners look at the Walton’s . We have a much more competent starter than they do and if we win the Super Bowl he will make 7 million .
I think Jodi is just fine . A bit of sexism ? , look at all these old white ass clown men running their teams into the ground .
Jodi is just fine by me . 10-7 . Go HAWKS!

[NorthHawk]

The Waltons bought the Broncos after Wilson was traded and signed for a big contract along with giving up the draft capital.
They may be real uneasy with the current direction, or they may be OK to let it ride out to see how this year really ends up. We don't know.
But what we do know is they don't have a choice in paying Wilson his big contract guarantees and if they want to sign a coach like Sean Payton they don't have
the draft capital to pay the Saints as he is still their property.

It's been written that Jody is a big basketball fan and probably understands the game pretty well, but didn't follow football that much and only had a passing interest in it.
Now she is responsible for a team so she in all likelihood falls back to the Sr people around the team and might possibly be swayed by a Coach or GM who has succeeded in the past.
Maybe she's a quick study and really understands the finer details of the business now and is making the decisions, but it would probably be that she listens to the top people at
Vulcan within the Sports division of that company along with JS and PC.

[Hawktawk]

My understanding is she attends every home game and it’s reported she has grown more and more comfortable owning the team . I know she and John made the right call whoever was in on it . Pete was the last guy to sign off on it by his own admission . But it’s so obviously the right move and when these kids on defense figure it out watch out

[TriCitySam]

His play is not a big surprise, several of us saw this as a possibility: declining speed, some poor play and the stories that he was calling the shots. We heard that some of the issues here were that RW wouldn't run the designed plays. Screw legend. Coaches coach, players play. Period.

[NorthHawk]

He can still run for first downs so his speed is good enough and he seems to play better when he does run.
But he’s not looking off DBs and not making his reads as if he’s decided where he’s going to go before the snap.

[RiverDog]

He can still run for first downs so his speed is good enough and he seems to play better when he does run.
But he’s not looking off DBs and not making his reads as if he’s decided where he’s going to go before the snap.

He's either locking in on a receiver or he's not seeing the entire field.

[Aseahawkfan]

He's either locking in on a receiver or he's not seeing the entire field.

If I were guessing and this is pure speculation, he doesn't quite understand the route concepts in a WCO style of offense yet. He's still getting a feel for the routes in real place against a moving defense, some of it due to his lack of play in the preseason.

Russ played in a play action, low volume offense in Seattle where he mostly threw deep. Where as the WCO is a high volume mix of short, medium, and long passing with a lot more route concepts he is unfamiliar with. Given he didn't play in the preseason, I think he's having to learn the route concepts in real time against opposing defenses while getting pressured due to a weak offensive line.

It's easy for someone watching film from the sky with no 280 to 300 lb. pass rusher in your face to see the open route, not so easy when you're under pressure and all the parts are moving.

We'll either see Russ improve as the season goes on and he understands the route concepts and where to look and hit in real time better or maybe he is cooked and won't be able to adapt to this new offense. In reality, five games with no preseason play isn't a great indicator of whether he's done or not. It does take time to learn a new offense and get timing with receivers even for the best QBs.

We'll know more closer to the end of the year. Though one thing I am seeing that would concern me in Denver is his arm strength looks a little weaker than normal. He normally throws pretty hard, crisp passes, but his passes are looking a little late and a little slower than usual. Not sure if his shoulder is actually hurt or he's throwing late and without confidence. That will show in time as well.

[RiverDog]

He's either locking in on a receiver or he's not seeing the entire field.

If I were guessing and this is pure speculation, he doesn't quite understand the route concepts in a WCO style of offense yet. He's still getting a feel for the routes in real place against a moving defense, some of it due to his lack of play in the preseason.

Russ played in a play action, low volume offense in Seattle where he mostly threw deep. Where as the WCO is a high volume mix of short, medium, and long passing with a lot more route concepts he is unfamiliar with. Given he didn't play in the preseason, I think he's having to learn the route concepts in real time against opposing defenses while getting pressured due to a weak offensive line.

Perhaps. But we're starting to get into the season as he's already played Game 5.

It's easy for someone watching film from the sky with no 280 to 300 lb. pass rusher in your face to see the open route, not so easy when you're under pressure and all the parts are moving.

It's also a lot easier to see open receivers from the vantage point TV offers us, but the QB is having to look at things at ground level. However, even when we take those factors into consideration, I still think that he's locking onto receivers and not going through his progressions. In the last play of overtime, all he had to do was glance to his right and he would have seen Hamler. Take a look at the video and see if you don't think that he's locking onto his primary receiver:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ru ... M%3DHDRSC3

We'll either see Russ improve as the season goes on and he understands the route concepts and where to look and hit in real time better or maybe he is cooked and won't be able to adapt to this new offense. In reality, five games with no preseason play isn't a great indicator of whether he's done or not. It does take time to learn a new offense and get timing with receivers even for the best QBs.

We'll know more closer to the end of the year. Though one thing I am seeing that would concern me in Denver is his arm strength looks a little weaker than normal. He normally throws pretty hard, crisp passes, but his passes are looking a little late and a little slower than usual. Not sure if his shoulder is actually hurt or he's throwing late and without confidence. That will show in time as well.

It shouldn't take him an entire season to get used to the new offense. Say what you want about Russell, but there's no one that works harder at mastering the game than he does. This ain't Cam Newton we're talking about.

[Aseahawkfan]

Perhaps. But we're starting to get into the season as he's already played Game 5.

And they won 2 games, one against a team that smoked us. We put up zero points against the 49ers on offense, they put up 11 points.

It's also a lot easier to see open receivers from the vantage point TV offers us, but the QB is having to look at things at ground level. However, even when we take those factors into consideration, I still think that he's locking onto receivers and not going through his progressions. In the last play of overtime, all he had to do was glance to his right and he would have seen Hamler. Take a look at the video and see if you don't think that he's locking onto his primary receiver:

That's where we'll see if it changes.

It shouldn't take him an entire season to get used to the new offense. Say what you want about Russell, but there's no one that works harder at mastering the game than he does. This ain't Cam Newton we're talking about.

I don't think it will take an entire season, but a few good games or a few bad games isn't going tell us much. You need to see the body of work over a season to know what's going on. Same as with Geno or Rodgers or Brady. It is the season outcome that matters, not the first five games.

Even our garbage defense could turn it around before the end of the season.

[NorthHawk]

It seems that not playing in pre-season really got them behind the curve.
There’s really no way to get game speed experience in practice and both receivers and QB aren’t in sync.
He threw the ball behind the receiver a few times which might suggest unfamiliarity with his receivers game speed
and he’s missing a lot of deeper throws too.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34755364/sources-broncos-qb-russell-wilson-partially-torn-lat

Russ has a torn lat. I knew his throws looked particularly off against the Colts. Didn't have the power and zip I'm used to seeing from him.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34755364/sources-broncos-qb-russell-wilson-partially-torn-lat

Russ has a torn lat. I knew his throws looked particularly off against the Colts. Didn't have the power and zip I'm used to seeing from him.

Russ looks slow . He looked heavy . He’s not seeing the field at all . Someone , possibly Hackett himself insinuated Hamler was the intended target in the play call , short quick throw , get first down . He never looked at him . I saw a report that Hackett has confided Russ is going off script from what is being called . Just looks like an olded out shell of himself . He’s got a shoulder strain suffered vs Vegas but that don’t explain missing wide open guys dressed in safety god awful orange fir christs sake .

His shoulder is on the Monday night game report . He apparently flew to LA for an injection that isn’t a standard treatment . Therapy and rest is what’s normal . The smartest thing denver could do is sit him under cover of this injury . Throw Rypien to the wolves . Russ don’t need no more still shots with teammates to surface . I can’t believe how bad it is.

[RiverDog]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34755364/sources-broncos-qb-russell-wilson-partially-torn-lat

Russ has a torn lat. I knew his throws looked particularly off against the Colts. Didn't have the power and zip I'm used to seeing from him.

Sounds a lot like last season, Russell getting injured then returning when he isn't 100%:

Wilson is not expected to need surgery on the shoulder, per sources. He is expected to be ready to play in the Broncos' next game a week from Monday night in Los Angeles against the Chargers, even though he is not expected to be 100%. Doctors believe the injury could linger for multiple weeks, sources said.

Wilson played through the injury Thursday night before flying to Los Angeles on Friday, as NFL Network reported, to receive an injection in his shoulder with the hope that between that treatment and rest, he will feel and play better.

The Broncos don't have to play until a week from next Monday, so it's almost the equivalent of a bye, 11 days, so he'll have some time to rest it. But one of the problems for them is that he's not going to be getting reps with his receivers, and they really need to work on some things.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sounds a lot like last season, Russell getting injured then returning when he isn't 100%:

Wilson is not expected to need surgery on the shoulder, per sources. He is expected to be ready to play in the Broncos' next game a week from Monday night in Los Angeles against the Chargers, even though he is not expected to be 100%. Doctors believe the injury could linger for multiple weeks, sources said.

Wilson played through the injury Thursday night before flying to Los Angeles on Friday, as NFL Network reported, to receive an injection in his shoulder with the hope that between that treatment and rest, he will feel and play better.

The Broncos don't have to play until a week from next Monday, so it's almost the equivalent of a bye, 11 days, so he'll have some time to rest it. But one of the problems for them is that he's not going to be getting reps with his receivers, and they really need to work on some things.

In the past, a guy playing hurt was looked at as a tough guy and respected. Now he's viewed as damaging the team. How times change.

Yep. He's got some time to get well.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Shut him down. He may be able to come back this season, but, regardless of how long it takes for him to get better, it ain’t worth getting beat up more and maybe making it worse with the money they have tied to him. Denver doesn’t look like a contender this season anyway. Not worth throwing your franchise QB away

[RiverDog]

In the past, a guy playing hurt was looked at as a tough guy and respected. Now he's viewed as damaging the team. How times change.

Yep. He's got some time to get well.

That's true. Willis Reed and Kirk Gibson come to mind. Rub a little dirt on it. Tape an aspirin to it. Or so said my high school coaches.