Where has this been the last 10 games? I would suspect Pete looked at the Dallas Offense and realized he couldn't play it close so he allowed them to open it up
Where has this been the last 10 games? I would suspect Pete looked at the Dallas Offense and realized he couldn't play it close so he allowed them to open it up
jshawaii22 wrote:Notes for off-season: Beg (evidently, that's what it would take) Pete to move up or retire. Get New head coach. (Yes, Jim Harbaugh would be my first and only choice right now) Along with a New DC and OC with the new coach.
Draft the QB of the future or 2 QB's to play safe. Trade DK if you need the draft capital to move up to get whichever QB JH wants to go forward with.
Do not draft a RB in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round.... Do not trade out of good picks, if there is a need and there is ALWAYS a need to be filled.
Oly wrote:DK should be worth at least a top-10 pick in a trade. Imagine him an an offense that could routinely get him the ball in his hands on clever crossing routes and slants. He has the strength to routinely break a tackle and the speed to outrun a defense once he breaks that first tackle. All he needs are clever routes and a routinely accurate QB and he could be one of the very few Moss-like receivers who is worthy of a big contract. I'm usually in RD's camp in thinking receivers are like running backs and generally not worth the huge contract. An accurate QB and good OC are much more important to a good passing game. But what DK did in Dallas wasn't a fluke in terms of his ability. If Waldron quits telling him to just run go routes up the sidelines and starts using the middle of the field, and if Geno can hit him in stride, he's capable of 100+ yard games every week.
I doubt anyone offers a trade of what DK is worth, and that's fine by me. Keep him, develop a new QB and get a new OC, and we'll still have plenty of years to watch DK in his prime in a Hawks uni.
RiverDog wrote:There's no way a team is going to give up a top 10 pick for Metcalf. Wide receivers don't generally go that high. Last season, the first WR taken in the draft was when we drafted JSN at #20 overall. And Metcalf is not an All Pro, not even close, not when there's players like Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, et al. ahead of him. I'd be happy with any first-round pick plus a player or 2nd-3rd day pick. But we're not going to get that, so I'm like you, at this point, we might as well keep him.
Metcalf had a fantastic game last week, but I'm not prepared to say that it wasn't a fluke. We have to keep in mind that our offense in general played extraordinarily well, not having even punted the entire game. That's not going to happen this Sunday.
Oly wrote:Whether or not anyone will give up that pick, I think he's worth that on the trade market. First, taking a WR in the Top 10 isn't that ludicrous. Here is a recent sampling:
2022: Drake London (#8)
2021: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith (4, 5, 10)
2017: Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross (5, 7, 9)
2015: Amari Cooper, Kevin White (4, 7)
2014: Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans (4, 7)
There is talk of Marvin Harrison Jr. going as high as #3 next year, as well.
Clearly, teams value WR enough to pick them in the top 10. When you look at the performance of those WRs above, I can see a GM being more comfortable trading for DK than risking the top 10 pick. I wouldn't want JSPC to do that—we've seen the Hawks get burned by those trades recently—but teams will give up valuable picks for proven talent.
My point is that some other team could easily look at Metcalf and see All Pro potential if he had a better system and QB. And I agree. I think that the Dallas game was a fluke on this team, but because it's a fluke that Waldron would call a good game for him and Smith would actually hit him in the middle of the field. I don't think it's a fluke considering his abilities. I think some other GM with a better OC and QB will see DK's unique qualities and think that he'd be worth a Top-10 pick. At the very least, I think Schneider should be able to make that case when setting his demands.
Personally, I value a top 10 pick more than Metcalf, but I value him over most 1st rounders unless some can't-miss prospect drops lower than expected. I'm not sure about the middle-1st, especially with what seems to be a draft with fewer legit 1st round grades. I'd also be willing to give up Metcalf and our 1st to jump into the top 5 to pick a QB if the brass is in love with a prospect.
NorthHawk wrote:DK isn't asked to do much more than go routes. Occasionally he does some routes to the inside and he makes big plays, but most of his routes are just straight downfield. It's part of the limiting factors from Peteball.
We used to say Russell didn't or couldn't throw down the middle, but now we see Geno is hesitant as well unless we really need points then he does it. Since they do it often in Dallas with our old OC, it can only be Pete that limits that option and not the OC or QB.
jshawaii22 wrote:Nothing has changed my mind during this unprecedented losing streak about DK and his "personality"... Trade him as part of a package to move up in the draft. Let our new front office/coach decide who to draft and how to move forward. All the bs about Harbaugh 'close to signing' a new contract has gone very, very quiet this past week. Maybe he's waiting until after the playoffs, but he is my first choice. We are stuck in mud right now.
Is it time to start the discussion about how Penix and Nix and not in any top 10 mock drafts, but JJ McCarthy is? What are these "experts" looking at? Age? I don't know much about the kid from NC State or any others East of the Mississippi, but damn, both UW and O trounced Caleb this year and looked better doing it (to me!) --
jshawaii22 wrote:I like Nix, too. In the "first mock of ESPN" today, Nix was not taken until the 3rd round, and not by us. That's the part I don't get. 3rd round for a 6 year college player with a ton of good starts in the last 2 years. I would take the shot on him.
js
c_hawkbob wrote:I like Penix netter than Nix myself, but I still wish we'd taken Levis this year so what do I know.
c_hawkbob wrote:I like Penix netter than Nix myself, but I still wish we'd taken Levis this year so what do I know.
Gregg Bell @gbellseattle
14
#Seahawks DK Metcalf is the 3rd NFL player to have 900+ yards receiving and 5+ receiving touchdowns in each of the first five seasons of a career.
The others: AJ. Green and Hall of Famer Randy Moss.
RiverDog wrote:In retrospect, It would have been nice had we taken him with our native 1st rounder. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to pass on Witherspoon.
c_hawkbob wrote:To all y'all that keep hatin' on DK:
Gregg Bell @gbellseattle
14
#Seahawks DK Metcalf is the 3rd NFL player to have 900+ yards receiving and 5+ receiving touchdowns in each of the first five seasons of a career.
The others: AJ. Green and Hall of Famer Randy Moss.
Old but Slow wrote:Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?
Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.
And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.
Old but Slow wrote:Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?
Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.
And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.
Old but Slow wrote:Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?
Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.
And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.
NorthHawk wrote:I hadn't heard the term Dray horse before, but assume it's a Draft horse used for pulling wagons.
NorthHawk wrote:I agree, ObS. We seem to have the ability to acquire talented Receivers and not use them properly. Graham is the most glaring example, but we don't get the most out of DK and I fear we won't get the most out of JSN unless Pete leaves.
People rag on the OC, but this stuff has been going on for 3 OCs and the only common denominator is Pete Carroll and how he wants to play. Waldron is a McVay disciple, but we don't see much of that except for against teams where we really have
to have a big Offensive showing or are behind in the 4th quarter. When Russell was here, we would keep it close or be a bit behind and then in the 4th Pete would hand the ball to Wilson and say go win it for us. The same thing seems to be happening again now but with less successful results even though we have some real studs on Offense. We should be hanging 35 - 40 points on most teams, but we are being held back by the Offensive philosophy.
Old but Slow wrote:Okay, maybe it was a bad model, but I was indicating using him in other ways, maybe even running the ball.
c_hawkbob wrote:I think you will just always underrate DK to support you initial "we need to trade him" take. We've not come close to exploring all he's capable of. As far as that goes we don't use him enough for what we know he good for. IMO if he doesn't get 4 looks beyond 20 yards a game we're wasting him. Sometimes he doesn't get a target till the second half.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo. Last player I saw that was like Deebo was Percy Harvin. He could have been every bit as good as Deebo, but he was insane.
DK is great, but he ain't Deebo. Deebo is one of those freak, unique players that can do a lot of different things. When Deebo is out in Frisco, they feel that because ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo.
Shanahan could do better things with DK, but he wouldn't do Deebo type of things because DK isn't that type of player. He's far bigger, less elusive, and more of a straight-line speed guy. I think he would work on exploiting DK's size and speed more than we do.
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