NFL maybe adopting new technology

[NorthHawk]

The NFL will be testing an optical tracking system for measurements in the pre season. It will be used instead of chains, but the yard markers will still be used as backups and for the benefit of viewers who want to know where the 1st down marker is.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... -preseason

[River_Dog]

The NFL will be testing an optical tracking system for measurements in the pre season. It will be used instead of chains, but the yard markers will still be used as backups and for the benefit of viewers who want to know where the 1st down marker is.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... -preseason

Didn't they try something like that once in hockey, inserted a chip into a puck to make it easier to track?

I've always felt that they should have some sort of transmitter in the football so that it could accurately spot the ball and prevent something like the Vinnie Testaverde helmet touchdown. Many replays could require a shorter amount of time to resolve or be done away with altogether.

[NorthHawk]

The only thing I remember in Hockey is they had a swoosh whenever the puck was shot or passed. It failed miserably, but they might have tried some type of chip.
The problem is the entire puck has to cross the line be it goal or blue line (for offsides) so a chip wouldn't really make a difference unless it was somehow around the entire puck.

[River_Dog]

The only thing I remember in Hockey is they had a swoosh whenever the puck was shot or passed. It failed miserably, but they might have tried some type of chip.
The problem is the entire puck has to cross the line be it goal or blue line (for offsides) so a chip wouldn't really make a difference unless it was somehow around the entire puck.

Yeah, the entire puck passing a line is a little different than a football breaking the plane. I'm not a hockey fan, but I had a vague recollection of what you've described. I figured that since you were a Canadian that you must know about it. Baseball has been using a strike zone indicator as a training tool for umpires for a long time.

In any event, I can see a lot of practical applications for this technology and wonder why it's taken them this long to experiment around with it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Maybe the technology will screw us less.

Or the tech programming will be checked and the NFL just straight wrote code to bias large market teams.

[River_Dog]

Maybe the technology will screw us less.

Or the tech programming will be checked and the NFL just straight wrote code to bias large market teams.

Hehe! I never pegged you as a Grassy Knoll conspiracy theorist. Was that really Neil Armstrong? Any Elvis sitings lately?

Sorry guy, I had to do it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Hehe! I never pegged you as a Grassy Knoll conspiracy theorist. Was that really Neil Armstrong? Any Elvis sitings lately?

Sorry guy, I had to do it.

I believe in conspiracy theories as I see many of them happening right in front of everyone, but they just ignore them because what can the little guy do about them? Stock manipulation, economic manipulation, guys with islands prostituting young women for other rich guys, politicians making dirty deals with corrupt leaders of foreign nations that don't share our values, there are so many conspiracies out there. Some get caught, but for all the ones that get caught there are tons more that aren't. Then you have conspiracies that are probably drummed up to get everyone looking in different directions and thinking conspiracies are a joke, while they're doing something else in a different direction. History is filled with conspiracies that get found out and documented, some made up and made fun of, and most done in a way you'll never hear about or fully understand that get covered up by very powerful people with a lot of money and resources. You'd be more insane to think conspiracies aren't happening all around you given the historical evidence of the bad things that have been done behind all our backs that get found out.

Sure, some folks like to make fun of the crazy ones, but who knows if the crazy ones aren't conspiracies to create the idea conspiracies aren't real.

The real way I deal with this is to simply not worry too much about it, but I definitely believe in conspiracies. Watch them occur around me every day or read about them in history books or watch the way powerful people cover up or just walk in the grey areas of morality and legality to get done what they want to get done.

As far as how it relates to football, it sure does seem like we have had some very biased calls against us at very key times, egregiously bad calls. Maybe it's just a screw up by the refs and that's likely what it is, but is it beyond believe the NFL would shade things a little towards larger market teams given the revenue the NFL obtains from such teams? A call here or a call there? Even the Patriots multiple scandals make you wonder if they were mentioned behind the scenes and known about by the NFL, but so long as it doesn't make it to the press, they don't do much about it. Really, if the Patriots were cheating, it was definitely worth it and they still have all their trophies and accolades. It seems Robert Kraft and Brady had enough juice to make sure nothing much happened to them, the team, the QB, or the head coach, just a few ball boys and camera guys tossed to sacrifice.

Suffice it to say, we'll never know the entire truth. The NFL won't be derailed by it, just like the Patriots get their six trophies with a a lost draft pick or two which did nothing to them.

So do I think conspiracies exist even in the NFL? You're damn right I do. Does it matter? Nope. You gotta be able to win even when the league doesn't want you to. We eventually got it done by being so damn good that we crushed the opponent even though I'm quite sure the league would have preferred to see Peyton win.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not so sure there are any biases in the NFL or other sports outside of media attention which doesn't affect on field performance.
By putting a thumb on the scale, they would undermine the parity that has been created and creates so many interesting games and results. As well, the gambling revenue would be affected and we all know the owners are all about accumulating money so to endanger that trough would be counter productive.

[River_Dog]

I'm not so sure there are any biases in the NFL or other sports outside of media attention which doesn't affect on field performance.
By putting a thumb on the scale, they would undermine the parity that has been created and creates so many interesting games and results. As well, the gambling revenue would be affected and we all know the owners are all about accumulating money so to endanger that trough would be counter productive.

Exactly! There is far, far more to lose in a major scandal being exposed than there is in shading games towards large market teams or some other form of predetermined outcome. That doesn't mean that I think the sport is as pure as the wind driven snow, just that there is no organized conspiracy headed by Roger Goodell as our friend Hawktawk used to believe.

Baseball had a couple of conspiracies, but they didn't involve officiating/umpiring. The Houston Astros had a sign stealing scandal, ie cheating, and baseball's owners once engaged in a conspiracy to thwart free agency. I also don't doubt that there might be one or two individuals acting on their own, like a referee accepting some sort of kickback. But if the league knows what's good for them, they'd be watching those guys like hawks to make sure nothing like that happens.

As far as the other notable conspiracy theories, ie JFK, moon landings, all the covid nonsense, I tend to discount them until I see irrefutable proof. The conspiracy theory industry has made a lot of money selling a very gullible public their fabricated fantasies.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not so sure there are any biases in the NFL or other sports outside of media attention which doesn't affect on field performance.
By putting a thumb on the scale, they would undermine the parity that has been created and creates so many interesting games and results. As well, the gambling revenue would be affected and we all know the owners are all about accumulating money so to endanger that trough would be counter productive.

I think the Patriots cheating was a conspiracy. I think it went on quite a while. I'm not sure how much the NFL knew about it. It didn't change anything.

The had refs gambling in the NBA. Proved they were gambling. Not sure how long they had been doing it. It didn't derail the NBA. They're making tons of money.

Baseball had the big old Shoeless Joe Jackson scandal. They kept on going. They had the roids scandal in baseball as well. Do you really think the MLB didn't know? Really? They are that dumb?

I'm sure it's not constant, but thinking it would somehow undermine things is dependent on if they get caught and how often.

Vince McMahon built a billion dollar empire on fake Wrestling. People have to have their football fix. Where else they gonna get it?

As far as sports go, they just have to provide the illusion of fairness or equity, not the reality of it.

MLB and NBA aren't very fair, but they still exist and make tons of money. NFL salary cap does more to ensure equity than unbiased officiating.

The NFL don't fix games. No league does except baseball when they were caught as far as we know. But a little push here and there would not surprise me much at all. NFL fans won't stop watching if a little officiating bias is in the game, they just come to expect it as part of the game.

[Aseahawkfan]

Exactly! There is far, far more to lose in a major scandal being exposed than there is in shading games towards large market teams or some other form of predetermined outcome. That doesn't mean that I think the sport is as pure as the wind driven snow, just that there is no organized conspiracy headed by Roger Goodell as our friend Hawktawk used to believe.

Baseball had a couple of conspiracies, but they didn't involve officiating/umpiring. The Houston Astros had a sign stealing scandal, ie cheating, and baseball's owners once engaged in a conspiracy to thwart free agency. I also don't doubt that there might be one or two individuals acting on their own, like a referee accepting some sort of kickback. But if the league knows what's good for them, they'd be watching those guys like hawks to make sure nothing like that happens.

As far as the other notable conspiracy theories, ie JFK, moon landings, all the covid nonsense, I tend to discount them until I see irrefutable proof. The conspiracy theory industry has made a lot of money selling a very gullible public their fabricated fantasies.

What about all the books on conspiracies that turned out to be true? They are well-documented. They started out the same way as conspiracy theories like JFK, COVID, and the like, but lo and behold the evidence was sufficient to prove they were true. And often the very people involved or who started them never answer for the crime. History has many such documented conspiracies.

How do you even figure out if one is true or not? How do you even know the information from people who are actively trying to hide it or confuse the conspiracy are even telling you the truth? That's what I wonder. How you figure that out? I imagine you trust the information source and rely on faith.

I imagine that is better than spending too much time worrying about conspiracies and going nutters. I don't want to spend my time going nutters concerning things I can't control.

[River_Dog]

I think the Patriots cheating was a conspiracy. I think it went on quite a while. I'm not sure how much the NFL knew about it. It didn't change anything.

The had refs gambling in the NBA. Proved they were gambling. Not sure how long they had been doing it. It didn't derail the NBA. They're making tons of money.

Baseball had the big old Shoeless Joe Jackson scandal. They kept on going. They had the roids scandal in baseball as well. Do you really think the MLB didn't know? Really? They are that dumb?

I'm sure it's not constant, but thinking it would somehow undermine things is dependent on if they get caught and how often.

Vince McMahon built a billion dollar empire on fake Wrestling. People have to have their football fix. Where else they gonna get it?

As far as sports go, they just have to provide the illusion of fairness or equity, not the reality of it.

MLB and NBA aren't very fair, but they still exist and make tons of money. NFL salary cap does more to ensure equity than unbiased officiating.

The NFL don't fix games. No league does except baseball when they were caught as far as we know. But a little push here and there would not surprise me much at all. NFL fans won't stop watching if a little officiating bias is in the game, they just come to expect it as part of the game.

I guess it depends on how you define a 'conspiracy.' I do think that the Patriots two cheating scandals were at the very least done with a wink and a nod from their management, ie Belichick, perhaps Kraft. At the very least, they knew about it but turned a blind eye. If that's what you call a conspiracy, then I agree. The NBA's problem was IMO rouge employees, which I don't consider a 'conspiracy' in the way we think of the term. The 1919 Black Sox scandal was a conspiracy involving players on one team, which IMO did not include Shoeless Joe, but that's another story. Prior to 1946 and Jackie Robinson/Branch Rickey, MLB owners conspired to keep blacks out of the league.

So yes, there are conspiracies. But you have to provide an answer to each of the three parts to a crime: Means, motive, and opportunity before I'll sign onto them.

[trents]

In my mind a conspiracy needs to have three elements:

1. There needs to be a group of people involved.
2. The group needs to have a common purpose.
3. The common purpose needs to be subversive in the sense of overthrowing and established order.

[Aseahawkfan]

I guess it depends on how you define a 'conspiracy.' I do think that the Patriots two cheating scandals were at the very least done with a wink and a nod from their management, ie Belichick, perhaps Kraft. At the very least, they knew about it but turned a blind eye. If that's what you call a conspiracy, then I agree. The NBA's problem was IMO rouge employees, which I don't consider a 'conspiracy' in the way we think of the term. The 1919 Black Sox scandal was a conspiracy involving players on one team, which IMO did not include Shoeless Joe, but that's another story. Prior to 1946 and Jackie Robinson/Branch Rickey, MLB owners conspired to keep blacks out of the league.

So yes, there are conspiracies. But you have to provide an answer to each of the three parts to a crime: Means, motive, and opportunity before I'll sign onto them.

I fail to see how you signing on to them or not matters. I know I don't care who believes them or not. I see them and know they are there. The agreement with Saudi Arabi to control oil is an open conspiracy that breaches American values and the Saudis engage in what we would consider criminal actions all the time, yet they are not punished, prosecuted, or cut off because our open goal is control of oil and establishment of the U.S. dollar as the reserve currency.

None of this is part of our Constitution. We have witnessed multiple times various Saudis committing criminal acts that would be considered so in America. We have not done anything substantial to them. Many Americans don't like the relationship. But the powerful people in this nation want the relationship due to control of oil. They could care less what you think. They did this all behind your back with no vote and no need for your approval. Even today when the Saudi king does something like murder a man in a Turkish embassy, have this man chopped up and disposed of, you get lip service to censor him. Only thing now is it's all in the open. Started as a conspiracy and was successful and supported by the powerful folk of America and we have acted on that with our military and our tax payer provided dollars multiple times in decades costing lives, lots of cash, and in heavy contravention of our values as a nation. This is not the only one, just one that is very obvious and very well documented and overlooked by almost all citizens and our government in the interest of a goal of questionable worth unless you consider being the World Reserve a currency a necessary and valuable economic goal.

Suffice it to say no one cares if he little guy believes or not so long as the end goal is achieved or worth achieving. Leaving the common plebes to argue amongst themselves and call each other names like moonbat and such is something the conspirators think is great. Keeps the common plebes from ever uniting in any coherent sense to oppose what they're doing. It's why they will almost always win with rare exception.

I don't know if you have ever read political books like Machiavelli's The Prince or historical books on how the elite hold power, but I have. Divide, conquer, obfuscate, lie, cheat, steal, and view the law and morality as merely tools for control is the mentality of the elite humans. They don't consider themselves bound by these human fabrications and suffer very few consequences from breaching them or conspiring as it is called towards some goal, which is why I firmly believe conspiracies are occurring every day. Sometimes those conspiracies are surprisingly beneficial like the men who conspired to revolt against the English Empire, but most of the time not so beneficial.

Let's just say the NFL pushing things a little bit in favor of larger markets is something I expect. Or could just be rogue operators conspiring on a smaller scale like gamblers pushing a ref to do something. Doesn't much matter because Seattle being a small market will have to step up and beat the refs if they're making bad calls against us because that is part of the game and probably always will be.

[Aseahawkfan]

In my mind a conspiracy needs to have three elements:

1. There needs to be a group of people involved.
2. The group needs to have a common purpose.
3. The common purpose needs to be subversive in the sense of overthrowing and established order.

I think a conspiracy needs to for a criminal or morally questionable purpose at the time it occurs because obviously if the conspiracy is successful or at least mostly successful, the conspirators have either covered it up or successfully mitigated any consequences or taken control to the point they decide what is write and wrong and write the books on it.

It's only the conspirators who are caught and punished that are proven to be conspirators and suffer the consequences for it including whatever label the powers give them. Successful conspirators you either never even know about or simply toss others in the way to take the fall or cover their trail or obfuscate sufficiently you never really truly know what happened.