Deflategate Deflated?

[Hawktawk]

It appears that once again Goodell has meted out a punishment overturned or lessened by others. Maybe he should go but I had less a problem with how this was handled than a lot of other cases. And Berman definitely commented on what he thought was flimsy evidence. The guy was biased in favor of Brady based on his initial remarks belittling the controversy. He also offered the opinion that there didnt seem to be much of an advantage based on how Brady performed in the second half. Basically he was spouting the Cheatriots party line almost verbatim. NONE of that was any of his business in terms of what he was authorized to adjudicate. The league and Goodell were tone deaf to the warning signals of this Judges intent and some were shocked at the level of repudiation from Berman in his ruling. I am in complete agreement that something should change in terms of discipline in the league offices but i still think it is a travesty what Berman did. Now the woman beater Hardy is licking his chops to have his suspension overturned based on this precedent.

Bottom line though, Brady may have won the battle to get on the field but in the eyes of the average fan he is considerably less a man than he was before.

How many in this forum believe Brady did it? I do.

[Mo the Toe]

Tom got rid of that phone so fast he probably didn't have time to save his contacts. Berman would have to have see video of Brady with needle in the ball to be satisfied. I think he did it with plausable deniability in mind at all times.

[RiverDog]

How many in this forum believe Brady did it? I do.

What I think happened is that there was a lot of talk between the Pat's equipment people, and knowing that Brady liked under inflated balls maybe they did tamper with some of them...and maybe they didn't, that it was all just talk. I do not believe that Brady was actively involved or gave them any overt instructions, more like a wink and a nod. I do think that Brady was actively trying to cover up his involvement, as trivial as that involvement may have been, and might have been afraid of what the equipment people might say to the investigators and wanted to get everybody's story straight. I do think it is quite possible that he was tampering with the investigation, hence his refusal to turn over his phone.

[NorthHawk]

Implicit in an wink and a nod from someone in a position of power are instructions.
He might not have said so in so many words, but communication can be indirect and still be effective.
It can be a conscious attempt at plausible deniability by alluding to something that someone wants done.

[RiverDog]

Implicit in an wink and a nod from someone in a position of power are instructions.
He might not have said so in so many words, but communication can be indirect and still be effective.
It can be a conscious attempt at plausible deniability by alluding to something that someone wants done.

I didn't say it wasn't. All I am saying is that I do not think that Brady was at the center of it, that he was the mastermind of a plot to tamper with the game balls. I think he knew that there might have been efforts to deflate the balls and thought to himself "OK, cool!" instead of nipping it in the bud like he should have, and then when the rumor mill started churning, he knew he had on his phone information that had it been made public, would have caused him some major embarrassment.

I still think he deserves to be disciplined. Maybe not 4 games, but definitely a heavy fine and perhaps a 1 or 2 game suspension, primarily for his failure to cooperate with a league investigation. I am not convinced that game balls were indeed tampered with.

[NorthHawk]

Then where would they get the information that Brady liked lesser inflated footballs if not originally from him? It could be a wink and a nod to someone else who then talked to someone else and this trickled down to the equipment managers who acted on it. It's still coming from Brady, though.

[Hawktawk]

The head equipment manager had no knowledge whatsoever of the practice and was not a major focus of the investigation. I dont know how many of you have waded through the text streams that are known to exist. I have and when I read them I was absolutely convinced Brady was directly involved in the scheme. Statements like" I better get those jerseys or its going to be a rugby Sunday" "Im the deflator""I'm not going to go to ESPN,,,,yet".They talk about being stressed out from the pressure of trying to make the balls right. There are so many more , many long before the AFC championship game. These two guys were interviewed repeatedly by Wells and lied through their teeth until confronted with the text streams that had been recovered then the club refused to allow them to be re interviewed. Brady initially denied even KNOWING Mcnally, the "deflator" until text streams proved they had communicated extensively. Long range those two guys who got dumped like a hot potato are the key to the real truth. They have been made out to be incompetent chumps even though one had worked for the organization over 20 years. I wonder if someday someway that interview with ESPN might happen or is the evil empire so intimidating they will keep their lips sealed forever.

Theres something fundamentally wrong about a guy destroying others to protect a lie which is exactly what Brady has done.

[RiverDog]

Then where would they get the information that Brady liked lesser inflated footballs if not originally from him? It could be a wink and a nod to someone else who then talked to someone else and this trickled down to the equipment managers who acted on it. It's still coming from Brady, though.

I have no doubt that Brady said something in the presence of the equipment guys about how he likes his footballs. But j/b he says that he likes something one way or another doesn't necessarily mean that he's giving some kind of subliminal instructions to the stafff to go out and tamper with the footballs. Where I think the wink and a nod could have come in was after he heard them talking about deflating the balls.

If we were to give Brady the benefit of the doubt, and I am by no means defending him, one possible scenerio could be that in text messages and/or phone conversations, the equipment manager might have been joking around about deflating balls (one of the guys was known as "The Deflator") and that Brady just went along with the joke, not knowing that they were serious. Once he realized that the league was serious about looking into the possibility of the football were tampered with, he might have felt that the information on his phone could be taken out of context and been difficult for him to explain, so he got rid of the phone.

[RiverDog]

The head equipment manager had no knowledge whatsoever of the practice and was not a major focus of the investigation. I dont know how many of you have waded through the text streams that are known to exist. I have and when I read them I was absolutely convinced Brady was directly involved in the scheme. Statements like" I better get those jerseys or its going to be a rugby Sunday" "Im the deflator""I'm not going to go to ESPN,,,,yet".They talk about being stressed out from the pressure of trying to make the balls right. There are so many more , many long before the AFC championship game. These two guys were interviewed repeatedly by Wells and lied through their teeth until confronted with the text streams that had been recovered then the club refused to allow them to be re interviewed. Brady initially denied even KNOWING Mcnally, the "deflator" until text streams proved they had communicated extensively. Long range those two guys who got dumped like a hot potato are the key to the real truth. They have been made out to be incompetent chumps even though one had worked for the organization over 20 years. I wonder if someday someway that interview with ESPN might happen or is the evil empire so intimidating they will keep their lips sealed forever.

Theres something fundamentally wrong about a guy destroying others to protect a lie which is exactly what Brady has done.

The Patriots released their version of The Wells Report, which was undoubtedly used in Brady's defense. If you want to read both sides of the story and get an idea as to why the judge tossed out the suspension, read this:


http://wellsreportcontext.com/

I have yet to read the entire thing, but there's enough information contained in that rebuttal to cast doubt on the league's version.

[Hawktawk]

Ok RD I waded through that. First question has anyone independently verified that piece? If the allegations of bias in the Wells report have merit certainly a document produced by the accused team would have the same bias if not more.

RD I knew Brady was guilty when I saw his deer in the headlights interview right after the story broke where he stammered and stumbled over the simple question of did he cheat. I never saw Brady look like that before. No matter how much noise, how much shart has been thrown at the wall in a successful attempt to win in court the fact is that he did what he was accused of.No way would Goodell walk the plank to screw his best buddy in the league if he wasn't actually certain in his own mind this occurred. Wells was too kind with language like" probably at least generally aware" and it cost him. He was plenty aware. Destroying phones, paying fines and surrendering draft picks are evidence and admission of guilt.

I see it this way. There are three types of people, those who believe Brady is guilty, those who are wrong, and the judge who has Brady in his fantasy league.
Guilty as hell courts be damned.

[RiverDog]

Ok RD I waded through that. First question has anyone independently verified that piece? If the allegations of bias in the Wells report have merit certainly a document produced by the accused team would have the same bias if not more.

RD I knew Brady was guilty when I saw his deer in the headlights interview right after the story broke where he stammered and stumbled over the simple question of did he cheat. I never saw Brady look like that before. No matter how much noise, how much shart has been thrown at the wall in a successful attempt to win in court the fact is that he did what he was accused of.No way would Goodell walk the plank to screw his best buddy in the league if he wasn't actually certain in his own mind this occurred. Wells was too kind with language like" probably at least generally aware" and it cost him. He was plenty aware. Destroying phones, paying fines and surrendering draft picks are evidence and admission of guilt.

I see it this way. There are three types of people, those who believe Brady is guilty, those who are wrong, and the judge who has Brady in his fantasy league.
Guilty as hell courts be damned.

The answer to your first question is no, I do not know if anyone verified the Pat's version. The only reason I put it out there was to show that there was more than one explanation and that the judge, while not necessarily believing or disbelieving either or any version, evidently felt that there was enough points raised by other reports to shake his confidence in the Wells Report.

I agree with you about Brady's behavior, that he did have the look of a "deer in the headlights". But guilty of what? Orchestrating an effort to deflate footballs over multiple years as you seem to believe? I'm not going half that far.

The Pats accepting the NFL's punishment is not necessarily an admission of guilt. They may not have wanted to drag this thing out as Brady has done. Robert Kraft has/had a very good relationship with the league and is not the "rebel without a cause" personality ala Al Davis. You're trying to read in between the lines too much.

[obiken]

Its over. This judge wrote the decision with the fact that it would be appealed uppermost in his mind. Its ironclad.

[RiverDog]

Its over. This judge wrote the decision with the fact that it would be appealed uppermost in his mind. Its ironclad.

I'm not so sure about that, obi. The judge wanted them to compromise, something he wouldn't have done if he felt that Brady was as pure as the wind driven snow.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Roger Goodell should have taken the hint and settled out of court. I hear that Brady would have accepted a 1 game suspension. Goodell should have taken it and he could have held his head high, but now he will probably lose his 48millionb dollars a year salary, what a GOOF.

[NorthHawk]

Its over. This judge wrote the decision with the fact that it would be appealed uppermost in his mind. Its ironclad.

I was under the impression that it will go to a panel of 3 judges and if 2 favor Management, they could win an appeal.
I could have misunderstood how the next step works, though.

[Hawktawk]

Multiple reports breaking today. First the deflate gate judge Berman who vacated the suspension was seen partying with Robert Kraft in the Hamptons over the labor day weekend. You cant even make this stuff up folks. Then ESPN drops the bombshell on spy gate. Goodell had said at the time there were 6 tapes mostly from the 2006 season. Turns out there were FORTY game tapes complete with handwritten notes about what the hand signals meant. These included the 2001 AFC title game vs Pittsburgh. Goodell ordered the tapes to be stomped to smithereens by league employees and all the notes to be shredded WITHOUT EVER LEAVING GILLETTE STADIUM. Is that an investigation or a colossal cover up? Is it the end of Goodell? The truth is stranger than fiction.

[Seahawks4Ever]

The 3 teams that lost to the Pats in the SB's were complaining the loudest (along with Pitt.) and they were told to shut up and get over it. We were told the same thing when we were jobbed at SG XL.

Look how Kraft repaid his buddy Goodell. I am sure Roger at this point knows that Kraft punked him but good.