Cap Space

[NorthHawk]

The Carey Williams thread prompted a question about the Salary Cap and what impact his contract has.
The following figures are from Overthecap.com and I don't know if they include Williams not being here next year.
Currently we only have $179,564 in Cap space.
The Cap will go up to at least $150 million (one comment I read said it might reach $155 million) next year.
After the expiring contracts, we will start the year with the Cap Space of $23,937,610.
Okung, Irvin, and Mebane are a few of the notable players that could be retained and would have to work into that number and it doesn't look like we could keep all of them.
I think the priorities should be Okung because solid LT's don't come around very often and Irvin, but Mebane is a big part of the DL plugging up the opposing run game.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

[mykc14]

The Carey Williams thread prompted a question about the Salary Cap and what impact his contract has.
The following figures are from Overthecap.com and I don't know if they include Williams not being here next year.
Currently we only have $179,564 in Cap space.
The Cap will go up to at least $150 million (one comment I read said it might reach $155 million) next year.
After the expiring contracts, we will start the year with the Cap Space of $23,937,610.
Okung, Irvin, and Mebane are a few of the notable players that could be retained and would have to work into that number and it doesn't look like we could keep all of them.
I think the priorities should be Okung because solid LT's don't come around very often and Irvin, but Mebane is a big part of the DL plugging up the opposing run game.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

That doesn't have Williams roster move calculated in. Williams is going to cost us about 2 mil in dead cap next year, but his cap hit would have been 6 mil if he would have been on the team. Basically, if the cap goes up to $150 we will have about $30 mil in cap space. With that being said we are going to be needed to spend that money to resign guys. As of right now we a lot of starters who could become Free Agents: LT (Okung), C (Lewis), RG (Sweezy), DT (Mebane), DT (Rubin), Corner (Shead), and Slot Corner (Lane). There are a few guys who might make sense to cut: cutting Lynch would save us over 6 mil. Cutting Jimmy would save us 9 mil. I am not saying we would do any of those things but there is some maneuverability there.

[HumanCockroach]

It also includes Lynch at 9 million. Not saying they don't retain him for another year, but if they don't, that number jumps up to almost 40 million in space...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... lion-deal/

[RiverDog]

The Carey Williams thread prompted a question about the Salary Cap and what impact his contract has.
The following figures are from Overthecap.com and I don't know if they include Williams not being here next year.
Currently we only have $179,564 in Cap space.
The Cap will go up to at least $150 million (one comment I read said it might reach $155 million) next year.
After the expiring contracts, we will start the year with the Cap Space of $23,937,610.
Okung, Irvin, and Mebane are a few of the notable players that could be retained and would have to work into that number and it doesn't look like we could keep all of them.
I think the priorities should be Okung because solid LT's don't come around very often and Irvin, but Mebane is a big part of the DL plugging up the opposing run game.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Do you really think we keep Irvin? Someone is obviously going to throw some pretty good scratch at him. And how old is Mebane?

IMO the only priority would be Okung, and not because he's played all that well, j/b LT's are extremely hard to come by, especially when we never pick from lower than #25 or so.

[NorthHawk]

I think Irvin is pretty good now that he's learned how to play within our Defense and with the teams focus on Defense first, he might be a priority. That doesn't mean we won't be outbid, but I think we'll make him a good offer.
Mebane and Rubin are both FA's after this year and Hill can't stay healthy so depth is an issue. If we can re-sign him, it will sure help and NT's like him often play at a high level well into their 30's.

[HumanCockroach]

Who replaces Irvin if they don't try to keep him? They will "try", and they should, doesn't mean they will be able to. KPL isn't close to the player Irvin is ( horrible against the run, and not real good in coverage, to small to line up in pass rush situations) Morgan who is currently listed as his backup I think is a FA and not really a starting caliber linebacker.

I can just imagine how many heads will explode if Seattle uses their first pick pin an OLB instead of an offensive lineman come draft time. LOL.

[RiverDog]

Who replaces Irvin if they don't try to keep him? They will "try", and they should, doesn't mean they will be able to. KPL isn't close to the player Irvin is ( horrible against the run, and not real good in coverage, to small to line up in pass rush situations) Morgan who is currently listed as his backup I think is a FA and not really a starting caliber linebacker.

I can just imagine how many heads will explode if Seattle uses their first pick pin an OLB instead of an offensive lineman come draft time. LOL.

I'll answer a question with a question: Who replaces Okung if they don't try to keep him? Actually, I'll give you a partial answer to who replaces Irvin: Frank Clark. Why couldn't Clark be able to be developed in the same manner Irvin was?

If we have enough room under the cap and we still leave room in the budget to go after a FA OL if there's one we think we might like, then I'm OK with bringing Irvin back. I just get tired of seeing this constant drain on the offensive side of the ball while we spare no expense for the defense.

[NorthHawk]

I'm of the feeling that the interior of the OL needs to be addressed, preferably via the draft where the cost would be favorable. There should be some good Guards/Centers in the 2nd and later rounds. That would make re-signing Okung a very high priority and might be the bone thrown to the OL.

[HumanCockroach]

Because Frank Clark simply doesn't have the speed or athleticism to play the spot. He has never played a skill position ( as opposed to Irvin who had indeed played safety and LB in his life) that's the same as me asking why can't Bennett fill in for Chancellor.

I think you should check those numbers again. You have 40 million dollars dedicated to three total offensive players alone. The disparity between payroll on offense and defense isn't close to what you're attempting to make it. Retaining explosive players is important, and Irvin despite your bias against him, has been and continues to be exactly that RD.

What "drain" exactly occurs by Retaining Irvin? You're talking about paying for a free agent offensive lineman? Guess I'd prefer drafting some early, as opposed to overpaying for some mediocre lineman and drafting Irvin's replacement early.

[EmeraldBullet]

Clark could help replace Mebane, not Irvin. I think we should try to keep irving. I honestly thought Okung leaving was a forgone conclusion. I don't think we cut lynch, I think he retires. I think next year we will be fine cap space wise but it will get used up fast. Hope Chancellor doesn't try holding out again.

[RiverDog]

Because Frank Clark simply doesn't have the speed or athleticism to play the spot. He has never played a skill position ( as opposed to Irvin who had indeed played safety and LB in his life) that's the same as me asking why can't Bennett fill in for Chancellor.

I think you should check those numbers again. You have 40 million dollars dedicated to three total offensive players alone. The disparity between payroll on offense and defense isn't close to what you're attempting to make it. Retaining explosive players is important, and Irvin despite your bias against him, has been and continues to be exactly that RD.

What "drain" exactly occurs by Retaining Irvin? You're talking about paying for a free agent offensive lineman? Guess I'd prefer drafting some early, as opposed to overpaying for some mediocre lineman and drafting Irvin's replacement early.

The "drain" I was referring to was the loss of 4 starting OL over the past two years. I'm not necessarily advocating that we should have retained all or any of them, but I just don't like the trend.

I have no problem keeping Irvin. Any bias I might have been is long since past as I've acknowledged that he's a solid starter. I simply see Okung as the greater of the two priorities.

[HumanCockroach]

I don't see it as an "either or" proposition between Okung and Irvin. Both could be retained. Especially if Lynch either retires or Seattle feels comfortable with Rawls as the guy moving forward. That's 9 million right there that could certainly retain one of them ( not including the approximately 27 million without it).

I'm not advocating paying 20 million a year, but OLB money? Yeah.

[EmeraldBullet]

Pretty sure Okung is gone either way. He wants to test FA and hes gonna get a big paycheck.

[NorthHawk]

I think he will probably get a much better offer than we can give, too but I think they will give him a pretty good offer nonetheless.
If the dollars are close, we can hope he would stay with a proven winner, but money usually talks.
His decision will impact our draft in a big way, I would think.

[Hawktown]

If we keep Okung, I hope they put in a clause for false start/holding penalties. Him and Bennett every week with the penalties is aggravating. They should renegotiate the same with Bennett but not more money, lol.

[RiverDog]

I don't see it as an "either or" proposition between Okung and Irvin. Both could be retained. Especially if Lynch either retires or Seattle feels comfortable with Rawls as the guy moving forward. That's 9 million right there that could certainly retain one of them ( not including the approximately 27 million without it).

I'm not advocating paying 20 million a year, but OLB money? Yeah.

I'm not saying it's an either/or proposition, either, and I'm not arguing that Irvin is not worth a decent 2nd contract. I'm just saying that Okung is far and away the higher priority. I'd rather overpay to keep Okung and let Irvin go even if Irvin's was a relatively moderate offer if that's what it came down to.

I'd also like to see us keep some pocket change in case we see a FA that could really improve the team. There's also the matter of Mebane, whether or not we have enough money left over to bring him back. But if it works out that we can keep both Okung and Irvin while still leaving a little pocket change, then I'm all for it.

[NorthHawk]

Every team that doesn't have a starting caliber LT wants one, and every team that has one wants to keep him.
That's going to drive up the price for Okung.
It's also probably easier to replace Irvin within our Defense, than it is Okung on Offense. We can do some Defensive scheming to compensate for the talents BI has. It probably won't be as good, but we could still be successful. We can't effectively scheme on Offense in the same way at LT without adding a TE to assist in blocking and then changing or maybe even limiting the effectiveness of the Offense.
I'd really like to keep both, but I think a starting LT is harder to find if it comes down to a choice.

Another player that is on the last year of his contract is DeShawn Shead. If he shows pretty well for the remaining games, he would be tough to lose, too considering the problems at CB earlier. I don't know how well the young CBs like Tye Smith are progressing, but unfortunately Tharold Simon can't stay healthy and Mohammed Seisay is on IR, too.

[HumanCockroach]

Lane is a FA as well. Though I think both will be able to be resigned baring an MVP caliber SB showing.

[obiken]

Okung is gone, he is going to want a boatload of money.

[NorthHawk]

I get that feeling, too but we can hope until it's done.
It really becomes a worry when the Jets are touting Carpenter as a Pro Bowl candidate and we are letting our players leave for less than $5 million/year .
Perhaps Carpenter doesn't fit our OL scheme, but maybe we should change that if the pool of players that can be effective within it is so shallow that we have to try to convert DL to OL.

[c_hawkbob]

Well, LT's get a boatload of money. That's SOP in this league. Unless you want to have to break in another rookie at the second most important position on the team paying Okung seems reasonably likely to me.

Just look at the difference in our offense now that the O-line is getting it's sh!t all in one sock, do we really want to jeopardize that now to save a few bucks?

[burrrton]

Well, LT's get a boatload of money. That's SOP in this league. Unless you want to have to break in another rookie at the second most important position on the team paying Okung seems reasonably likely to me.

I've been pretty hard on the guy (he's been a brittle false-start machine too often IMO), but yeah, I tend to agree both that it's likely we pay him and that it's a good idea to do so, if nothing else than for the cohesiveness.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure that the numbers will work out (but I'm not a Capologist).
There are a lot of players that are on the last year of their contract and Bennett and Kam have already said they want more, too.
I think we might be in a bind with this, but we'll see how it turns out.

Edit:
Ouch, this hurts:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... ta+twitter

[HumanCockroach]

But, but, but he sucks! LMAO. Just another example of the keen evaluation of line play in Seattle by the fans. Everybody wanted this guy gone, post haste the last several seasons, and surprise, surprise not only isn't he not just a NFL starting caliber lineman, but a premier starting offensive lineman. Go figure.

[mykc14]

But, but, but he sucks! LMAO. Just another example of the keen evaluation of line play in Seattle by the fans. Everybody wanted this guy gone, post haste the last several seasons, and surprise, surprise not only isn't he not just a NFL starting caliber lineman, but a premier starting offensive lineman. Go figure.

To be fair he also looks like he is in good shape, not overweight at all. I wasn't one who wanted him gone but I can see why fans wouldn't want to invest that type of money into a guy who waited until his contract year to put all of his physical traits to good use, get in shape, and take his job seriously.

[burrrton]

Everybody wanted this guy gone

I don't recall him being vilified, and in fact thought everyone considered him pretty solid (if under-regarded by the team).

Maybe I'm mis-remembering...

[NorthHawk]

The problem with letting him go is they had no plan to effectively replace him. Then they traded Unger, again without a suitable replacement. That's a huge hole that has taken most of the year to date to fill, and if Okung goes we will be in the same position next year and I don't think it's something we want to see repeated.
Again, it might be that we are running an OL blocking scheme where the talent pool is limited. Maybe it's time to go to a different scheme where talent is more abundant.

[HumanCockroach]

You are mis remembering.

[HumanCockroach]

The problem with letting him go is they had no plan to effectively replace him. Then they traded Unger, again without a suitable replacement. That's a huge hole that has taken most of the year to date to fill, and if Okung goes we will be in the same position next year and I don't think it's something we want to see repeated.
Again, it might be that we are running an OL blocking scheme where the talent pool is limited. Maybe it's time to go to a different scheme where talent is more abundant.

To clarify, you mean it took to long or do you mean that after less than a season you know the replacements cannot preform at that level?

Once again I will caution against judging "talent" on the line to early, and Britt who is less than a year into a new position needs that time, just like Carpenter, the big Russian, Unger etc to make that growth.

I'm not entirely sure where the idea that lineman simply show up and dominate out of college came from, but I assure you that isn't the case. Even players like Walt and Hutch experienced a learning curve.

[NorthHawk]

Well, if you're going to let go of players or trade them away, you had better have adequate replacements. That means if you intend to replace starting caliber Offensive Linemen then you better draft throughout the preceding years those same positions to ensure you know the replacements can in fact play at the NFL level and if it means you select OL earlier than they have or change the blocking scheme for a larger pool of talent, then you do that. It's common sense if you value that positional area.
To date, they have a single high quality Offensive Lineman left and he will be a Free Agent after the season. They have a starting Guard in the same contract position. Are they going to let him go, too? Recent history would suggest neither will be around next year, but perhaps the start of this year might have opened some eyes.

[EmeraldBullet]

Maybe, Maybe not. It's worked so far. WR and OL are a low priority for this team. We make adjustments and it aint always pretty, but as long as it works, whatever, in my book.

[burrrton]

You are mis remembering.

I'm probably remembering your opinions of him, to tell you the truth.

[HumanCockroach]

No, as always, I was one of the few defending him, and also was lambasted for saying Carpenter, and others were NFL starting caliber lineman.

( you can add in Giacomini, Unger and Sweezy as one time or another as well)

And North, the question was in regards to your opinion that they haven't replaced them with better lineman, coaches and teams don't adhere to your fast food thought process, or at
least Not GOOD coaches that continue to be one. Far to soon to "judge" the quality of most of the players on this line, if you haven't seen drastic improvement, I don't know how to explain it to you.