Sherm being shopped.

[savvyman]

I love Richard almost as much as I love my all time favorite athlete Marshawn Lynch - this is sad that it has come to this:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/seahawks-insider-blog/article143151044.html

[RiverDog]

I love Richard almost as much as I love my all time favorite athlete Marshawn Lynch - this is sad that it has come to this:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/seahawks-insider-blog/article143151044.html

Unlike previous link, that IS new information, the biggest of which reports that Sherman may be wanting out. If that's true, then it's more concerning than any trade rumors as it means the differences between Sherm and our FO is much worse than we thought. This could spell trouble for our locker room as it's never a good thing when an All Pro player is unhappy to the point that he no longer wants to be part of the team.

I still think it's more likely not to happen than will happen j/b there are too many complications, namely that the Seahawks are going to want way more than most teams are willing to give up, those that do have the draft capital may not want an older player, and Sherman's salary is more than what most teams that see themselves as being a player or two away from being a SB contender have available under their cap.

Even if he stays, it's going to be a distraction as this story doesn't want to go away.

[NorthHawk]

This article is still speculation, but some of the dots are becoming connectable.

On the other hand, the respect they have shown him by keeping him involved in the process and not treating him like a piece of meat may mean that the realities of what he can expect to see for offers could inspire him to be a team guy for a year to prove he's not a distraction and a real pro. He could have his best year ever here if he stays, and as stated in the article, with his Cap hit dropping to $2.2 million next year, that's when he gets traded.

I hope he stays and wants to continue here, but it will also mean CB will be higher on the list of draft targets this year than it might have otherwise been.

[NorthHawk]

PFT is now reporting that a trade was Sherman's idea.
That would fall into the narrative of the FO shopping him and he being on board with it.
From some of the articles I've read, it seems he has some say as to where he goes if a trade can be consummated.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... mans-idea/

[Seahawks4Ever]

Richard Sherman a "future" Hall of Famer? First ballot even??? Maybe IF he would have progressed into being a "real shut down CB instead of a shut down LEFT Corner. I mean, opponents send their top WR to the right side and Sherman does nothing all day and he thinks he is KING. Until an opponent has more than one decent WR then they will just sacrifice whomever Sherm is covering and then burn the others on the no longer vaunted LOB. I saw waay too many mistakes by the LOB AND Sherman the last couple of seasons.

Oh, name ANY team in any era no matter how many Super Bowls attended or won there came a time when a guy like John Schneider or even a HC as accomplished as Pete either wore out their welcome and/or move3d on to what they believed were greener pastures. Oh, and PULEESE don't count the owner, Paul Allen. That is a different kettle of fish. I dread the day that Paul decides to sell the team because it is not an IF but a WHEN. P.A. won't live forever and maybe no one in his family would want to continue owning the team or they would mess it up by being too "hands on". So, yeah, Paul Allen is the ONE and ONLY INDEPENSIBLE person in the Seahawks organization.

Tom Landry, Jimmie Johnson, Chuck Knoll, Chuck Knox, Mike Holmgren, etc...All wore out their welcome after tremendous success so don't think for a moment that Schneider might decide to leave the Hawks if he was offered the Green Bay job and Pete could always decide like Holmgren did that our team has heard everything he has to say and they are no longer responding as they once did. Besides, California is calling and Pete's desire to be named to the NFL HoF could be guaranteed if he is the first HC to win 2 different Super Bowls with 2 different teams.

I remember a pundent saying that the Seahawks had to either play in the SB or win it IF this group could claim "dynasty" status. Well, that pundent I hope was wrong and that THIS season is the "key" season as to whether there are any more championships by this core group of players. The window is closing rapidly and I refuse to be a "Pollyanna" and be blind to watching a team with so much potential blow it by not handling their personel very well.

[c_hawkbob]

Richard Sherman a "future" Hall of Famer? First ballot even???

Without question. He retires today he's in Canton in 5.

Maybe IF he would have progressed into being a "real shut down CB instead of a shut down LEFT Corner

A total BS argument. First; it's not a players choice, it's 100% a coaches call. Second; he does, a LOT more than he's given credit for and third (and most important); whether playing left or right his stats (not his INT's his real CB stats: opposing QB rating when targeted) are consistent. Consistently the best in the league.

Even so, nobody said he was indispensable. What I said was it'd be a major blockbuster if he were traded.

The rest of your post amounts to a really long winded "the sky is falling" ... whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that our window is wide open for a good few years yet.

[RiverDog]

If he were to retire today, a first ballot HOF might be a bit of a stretch for Sherm, but only because of the longevity issue that kept Kenny Easley out for so long. Sherman's only played 6 years to date. He puts in another 3 years without falling off a cliff and he's a first ballot HOF'er. The only player on our team that is more of a lock is Earl.

For at least 4 years, 2012-2015, Sherman has been the best cornerback in the game IMO. He's slipped a bit as of late, but not to the point that it would take him out of HOF consideration. His signature play, the "Immaculate Deflection", is without a doubt the most memorable single play in team history.

If Sherman is traded, it will be a really sad day.

[NorthHawk]

Do we know what game Sherman hurt his knee last year?
I'm wondering if he didn't look the same because it slowed him down a little.
Wherever he plays this year, we will see if in fact his play is slipping.

Regarding HoF, he has a few things going for him.
In no particular order they are:
1) Notoriety. Everyone knows who he is even if he plays in "South Alaska".
2) 2 Super Bowl appearances and one ring.
3) Big plays in the playoffs which stick in peoples minds
4) Perception of being a dominant CB.

[Seahawks4Ever]

The sky is falling? Don't think so. We have boofu room under the salary cap a solid brain trust ready for the draft and more importantly ready to scoop up all of the undrafted talent too. The two holes I see that need to be plugged are greater depth and tweaking the O-Line. My only fear is how long it will be until Tyler Locket is 100% Watching that play was worse than when LT took out Joe Theisman on MNF. Oh man, Tyler was hurt BAD. I have not heard of any prognosis but I wouldn't be surprised if he missed most if not all of this coming season. I would be shocked, yet pleasantly surprised to have Tyler make a liar out of me and be Come Back Player of the Year next season.

[c_hawkbob]

"The window is closing rapidly" isn't quite "the sky is falling" but the difference could easily be considered semantics. My apologies for assuming that extra half step.

[RiverDog]

Do we know what game Sherman hurt his knee last year?
I'm wondering if he didn't look the same because it slowed him down a little.
Wherever he plays this year, we will see if in fact his play is slipping.

Regarding HoF, he has a few things going for him.
In no particular order they are:
1) Notoriety. Everyone knows who he is even if he plays in "South Alaska".
2) 2 Super Bowl appearances and one ring.
3) Big plays in the playoffs which stick in peoples minds
4) Perception of being a dominant CB.

If there's a "perception" of Sherm being a dominant CB, it's one that's shared by quartebacks as well. Remember that first regular season game of the 2014 season when Aaron Rodgers threw something like 40 times but none to Sherman's side?

I'm not sure when Sherman hurt his knee or how much it affected his play, but there's definitely a change of attitude by our opponents. They aren't shying away from him like they did in 2012-2015. They go right at him, and with more success than in the past.

[RiverDog]

Here's an interesting article about a potential Sherman trade:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/richa ... spartanntp

[NorthHawk]

Here's an interesting article about a potential Sherman trade:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/richa ... spartanntp

That's an interesting proposition if in fact bridges have been burned in this relationship.
Both teams get players that can help and 44 might still wield a very good pick.

Florio at PFT yesterday posited that the Chargers should try to get in on a trade. His point was that the Chargers need to sell the team in a new market for when their stadium is completed, so who better than a high profile DB from right in LA?
It makes sense but I don't think they have the players or picks (Chargers don't have a 1st this year) to give up to complete a trade.

[Largent80]

I think he will be a draft day trade and we are going to make a defensive haul to re-tool the D-Backfield.

[RiverDog]

I think he will be a draft day trade and we are going to make a defensive haul to re-tool the D-Backfield.

Welcome to The Shack, Largent80!

A draft day trade makes the most sense as you know what you're getting/giving in terms of specific draft picks, but I wouldn't rule out a trade before the start of the regular season. In any event, I still think it's not likely to happen.

[obiken]

Wow, this thread went way different than when I started it 2 weeks ago huh?

[obiken]

Without question. He retires today he's in Canton in 5.

No, he is a good corner but a lot of players in the league have asked how good would he be without ET. I don't think you just ship RS of to another team and he locks down his guy. Now I could be wrong.

Most of the friends of other teams all say the same thing Cbob, Sherman just needs to shut up and play football, and I am getting drug there kicking and screaming myself. Either way, I don't see any team giving up a first rounder for RS. But Hey I have been wrong before.

[Hawktawk]

It almost seems like the Hawks are too eager to move Sherm. Its like they have lit up a billboard. One would think potential suitors might be chased off by it wondering what the problem is.

I think the best place for Sherman is manning the corner slot in Seattle assuming ET is back and healthy. If he isn't it doesn't matter who is playing corner its a long day as we saw play out in such ugly fashion the last quarter of the season.This system absolutely needs Thomas or his physical and mental clone at the single high free safety position or Carroll needs to roll up his sleeves and learn to coach a different scheme.

Either way its sad to think of Sherman moving on. It feels a little bit like an era is dying when the best corner of his era and a guy who made the biggest defensive play in the history of the franchise 3 short seasons ago is dangling like a piece of meat.
The entire handling of the Sherman trade issue by Jon and Pete has been ham fisted and clumsy and their FA acquisitions and draft day trades have been inconsistent at best the past few years. I hope to be wrong but I feel a sense of foreboding.JS and PC have not proven to me they are slick enough to reload like New England does seemingly annually.

[NorthHawk]

I keep wondering how much influence Scot McGlouhan had in those drafts where we had good hauls of talent.
It seems we dropped off a bit since then. I get the feeling he's a premier judge of draft talent considering he had his hands in SF when they were loaded and us when we stacked our team.

Regarding Sherm, more teams are running variations of the Seattle Defense. That's natural when you have the best scoring Defense for 4 or 5 consecutive years. People notice and try to add in things that work for them as well as the coaches that have left here for better coaching opportunities. This should mean there are more options for him, but the Salary Cap can have a deflating effect on the market for his services.

I don't know if he will be traded or not, but now is the best time to do so from a contract and return value point of view. It seems cold, but the business of the NFL demands a team make these type of tough decisions if they want to stay competitive.

[obiken]

I am hearing tonight HT that Sherm asked for the trade. Could be a great move IF they can get one of the DB's that are up for grabs in this draft. I dont want Sherm to leave, but I am getting nauseated with all his crap.

[Zorn76]

It'd be beyond stupid to trade Sherman, which I doubt will happen anyway.

His contract is reasonable, he's still only 28, and it'd send the wrong message to the team. His blow ups last year...he should be able to put it behind him. Either way, he's worth having around for another legit SB run over the next 2 or 3 seasons.

Of course now he's 29, but I still stand by my original point.

Timing is everything, and now is Not the time to bank on a new CB being as effective overall as Sherman.
I think he stays.

[RiverDog]

Either way, I don't see any team giving up a first rounder for RS. But Hey I have been wrong before.

If a trade does happen, it may not be the blockbuster deal that we've been assuming:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nf ... kcx2i7efwc

If any of you are still doubting if this trade talk just some random stirring of the pot by a bunch of amateur writers, you might want to check out what JS said about them recently:

"What you've seen lately in the news is real. That's on both sides," in regard to recent rumblings that teams have inquired about Sherman.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... d-46597051

I'm not saying that a trade is imminent, rather I think it's still more unlikely than likely, but it's undeniable that there's some truth to these rumors.

[NorthHawk]

I took the "that's on both sides" comment to mean other teams and the Seahawks. Now I'm beginning to think it meant both Sherman and Seattle.

This might work out in our favor if he isn't traded. Consider he might find out his value isn't as much as he thinks and he might use that as a chip on his shoulder to play even better. It might also put a bit of a needle into his inflated ego (which most top flight athletes have) and make him a more focused player.

[obiken]

I'm not saying that a trade is imminent, rather I think it's still more unlikely than likely, but it's undeniable that there's some truth to these rumors.

I agree, I am more like you on Sherm than C-bob. I am sold out to RW, ET, and BW. I have never been sold out on RS. Is he great corner yes. I have 2 points however, 1. IF he is so super duper whooper, why aren't teams stumbling all over themselves to grab him? 2. IF you cannot get along with PC, who can you get along with? PC has an open locker room where individualism is encouraged. He wants passion and hard play, that's it. IF he acted a 1/10 as bad with BB in NE, he would be down the road bode; its Billis way or the highway.

One of my best tools running a Housing unit with convicts River, was to say if you can't handle me, give me the word and I will send you to B-1, with officer A-hole. Usually they never said a word, and I hardly ever had a problem out them after that.

[RiverDog]

I have 2 points however, 1. IF he is so super duper whooper, why aren't teams stumbling all over themselves to grab him? 2. IF you cannot get along with PC, who can you get along with? PC has an open locker room where individualism is encouraged. He wants passion and hard play, that's it. IF he acted a 1/10 as bad with BB in NE, he would be down the road bode; its Billis way or the highway.

You may have answered your question in your first point with your statement in the second.

One of the reasons why teams are not as interested in Sherm as was assumed that they would be might be that they may realize that if Pete can't handle him, that they wouldn't have any greater chance. The Percy Harvin debacle comes to mind, when we traded for him a few short months after Harvin chased his head coach, mild mannered Leslie Frasier, up the sideline during a game to read him the riot act. That incident was my biggest objection to bringing in Harvin, and I remember thinking that Pete had an inflated sense of his own persuasive powers if he thought he was going to be able to succeed where Frasier failed.

It seems pretty clear that the primary reason why Sherman has suddenly become expendable is his very public displays of insubordination, and this could be hurting his marketability, not too unlike why teams aren't drooling over Colin Kaepernick. Both are clearly distractions.

[NorthHawk]

He has age going against him and a healthy contract, too so that limits the teams that might be interested.
Add in what seems to many to be a deep draft for DB's and it pushes down the need for teams to make a trade right now.

I think his frustrations are that within a championship window we have had an Offense that can't pull it's own weight.
We fans have seen it and I'm sure other defensive players see it as well, but Sherman is the only one to point it out from within.
Unfortunately I think we will look back at these past couple of years as being lost opportunities and be thinking what could and should have been.

[Hawk Sista]

This whole thing makes me very sad. If reporting is to be believed, Sherm asked to be traded. I can understand being frustrated at work, but his public criticism in combo w/ this request (if indeed true) Is upsetting, to say the least. Richard (one of my favorite Hawks) wants out, so I think there will likely be a draft day trade.

The question about what we do on the field is one thing. Additionally & perhaps as important, one has to start to wonder if there's something that cannot be fixed in-house. What will the ripple effects be from this off season of intrigue? All of this makes me sad. Unfortunately, I'm in the camp of people who think Sherm's ego has outpaced his "Love Of Brothers" - so much for the LOB.

While I don't know what it's like to be a pro athlete (and more specifically, a Hawk under Pete), I do have plenty of work experience. I'm a leader but I have bosses with whom I sometimes I disagree. I don't just keep my mouth shut when I do find myself at odds. It's a time, place and manner thing and Richard has demonstrated immaturity in all three areas. HE has broken the team rules on this, yet HE is the one who allegedly wants out. If that is true, I hope he plays on a crappy AFC team and never goes to the playoffs again.

[NorthHawk]

We don't know what was said behind closed doors prior to his outbursts on the sidelines. It might just be that he pointed out some things that needed correcting and they said they would fix it and didn't get it done. He may have been pointing it out for a couple of years and watching it slide away was too much. It's hard for us fans to watch the Offense bumble along until it almost collapsed last year, it must have been even worse to experience it.

Football is a game where emotions run high and many players use emotion to get an extra edge. In that light, some players might not be able to keep things to themselves like we do in normal life. Tackling/hitting people and being physical isn't something ordinary jobs require so naturally there will be some people that go beyond the edge. I find it sad, too, but sometimes people just have to part ways when philosophies divert or expectations aren't met.

[Hawk Sista]

Hiya, North. I hope you are well these days.

I thought I made clear that I don't know what's really happening - I only know what's being reported. My comments are based on the reports of Sherman requesting a trade being true. I know very well that we only understand a fraction of the real story and I'll add that I believe that's how it should be. If one of my employees disagreed wth me so publicly, I doubt I'd be as gracious as Pete is. I know there are aspects of Shem's chosen profession that make my comparisons less apples to apples than is ideal. That said, he's a handsomely paid employee.

It's tough for me to say it's time for Sherm to move on due to "philisophical differences." I think there is too much individual branding in the NFL for the health of any team. Pete gives his players more latitude than most coaches which is a double edged sword. W/ the early Sherm, it was a good thing. The more popularity he's gotten, the more he seems to feel that he is bigger than the team first philosophy.

Maybe he's right on some or all of his concerns. But to make them public is to put himself first, which is unfortunate to see. One could argue a lot of things about my position. When Sherm told Jim Moore that he would get him fired (essentially), & then refused to apologize for it, that is when I began to sour on him. Everything else could be chalked up to emotion, heat of the battle stuff. That was as mean as it was immature and his growing refusal to admit any wrong-doing is getting embarrassing.

He's a smart man and a good ball player. Great, even. I'd love nothing better than to have a contented Sherm on the team. We have a void at corner as is, we'd have two pretty big ones if he leaves. If he cannot find his way back to the philosophy that netted him a ring, a chance for a second and playoffs in most seasons he's played, then so be it. #lovemyteam #liketheplayers

[Hawk Sista]

Again..... I'll admit to not knowing what I don't know, but that is true in my line of work too. Perception becomes reality. And it is my perception that the LOB got nice big contracts which makes it more challenging to have good players in every spot. So when a dude takes 7-10% of the 53 man cap space for himself (not saying he shouldn't)...something has to give.

As an aside - He, Marshawn and others are rumored to still be mad about the way 49 ended. It is still a sore spot and has been tough to get past. Maybe it is, then, time to get young talent who want to play here.

[NorthHawk]

I wasn't trying to be contentious, Sis. Rather I was just shooting the breeze so to speak and offering a different possible scenario of what may have occurred.
Sherman is outspoken and emotional so it's not hard to think he would get into this type of situation at some point. Could he have survived in a Tom Landry type of coaching situation? I don't know but I doubt he would be the player he has become so with a player like him you get the good and bad.

As a side note there is speculation on PFT about a reunion of Lynch and Sherman in Oakland.
Maybe the Raiders think it's worth it for their Defense to progress this year.
We'll see how it all turns out.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... be-linked/

[Hawk Sista]

I hear ya, North. No worries from my end. I qualify my comments so often because I get it that I don't get it. I do fillet some in here who make declarations about situations they know nothing about, & that has to include me.

I may be too old school, but there are, IMHO, generic rules and standards for professionals to follow. When someone thinks they are above the rules/laws/protocol, it's problematic. Irrespective of the arena, the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. I stand by that. Take good care

[NorthHawk]

Good point, ObS. If teams only give what Sherm perceives as low ball offers and he isn't traded, maybe he will have a huge chip on his shoulder and have his best year yet.

[Hawk Sista]

I agree too. Good point OBS!

[obiken]

It seems pretty clear that the primary reason why Sherman has suddenly become expendable is his very public displays of insubordination, and this could be hurting his marketability, not too unlike why teams aren't drooling over Colin Kaepernick. Both are clearly distractions.

River do agree with CBob that Sherman is a HOFamer? I would take Ken Easley or Dave Brown over him in a heart beat. I am I letting his attitude taint my perception of his FB ability?

[NorthHawk]

I am I letting his attitude taint my perception of his FB ability?

I think you are. His statistics are undeniable and he takes away one side of the field in a lot of cases. Sure he has some holes in his game. Every Hall of Famer had holes in their game, but they still played at an exceptional level like Sherman has for the past 6 years.

[Oly]

I would take Ken Easley or Dave Brown over him in a heart beat. I am I letting his attitude taint my perception of his FB ability?

I'd take Easley over Sherman, too, but that's not a knock on Sherm at all. Sherm over Brown easily though.

For me, Sherm is the most complete corner that I've ever watched. He disrupts the release, doesn't get beat deep, ballhawks better than any CB since Sanders, and is a hell of a tackler and run defender. His only "weakness" is shifty guys in the slot. But he can take away 1/3 of the field, which makes the defensive gameplan so much easier.

But while Sherm is more complete than Sanders because of his run support, Sanders remains the only corner I've ever seen that I'd take over Sherm. I hope he doesn't get traded.

[NorthHawk]

Easley played Safety, so it would be difficult to put them in each others positions and try to extrapolate how they would play. Different eras are just as difficult.
I think Sherman would have difficulty playing in the Defense that Seattle played when Dave Brown played, and I'm not so sure Brown could play in this Defense given what they want in a DB in Carroll's tenure.
It goes back to the idea that players get the most out of their abilities when they are lucky enough to be in a system that can maximize their natural advantages.

[RiverDog]

River do agree with CBob that Sherman is a HOFamer? I would take Ken Easley or Dave Brown over him in a heart beat. I am I letting his attitude taint my perception of his FB ability?

Basically, yes, although not if he retired today, based on the same reason that has kept Easley out for so long, ie his years of service. Sherman has played in just 6 seasons to date.

But he'd have to fall off a cliff performance wise in order to disqualify himself, although that kind of thing can and does happen to players, Lofa Taputu being one example that comes to mind. The same thing could happen to Sherman if he were traded to a team that had a different system/player mix that does not cater to Sherman's strengths like ours does. But I think that unlikely, and would estimate his chances of HOF admission at 90+%.

As far as taking Easley or Dave Brown over him, North Hawk has the perfect answer. I, too, hate comparing players from different eras in this sport. Unlike baseball or basketball, the game changes way too much.

[Vegaseahawk]

I agree with Bob, Sherm is not going anywhere.

I'll say it again, Sherm aint going anywhere this season.