But setting that aside is he in bed with Russia?
Old but Slow wrote:There is reason to be concerned, because our democratic system depends largely on the vote, and if it is compromised, then our country is compromised. The fear, to me, at least, is that he has borrowed too much from Russian banks to pay back, and that they may use that as pressure. His son reported recently, as in the last couple of years or so, that they don't worry about loans here because they have money from Russia.
It seems very likely that his family has been cozy with Putin and co. and that could lead to some interesting information in the future.
The Special Counsel seems like a good man with good experience, and has called in some strong support, with attorneys and investigators with a range of areas of expertise.
In my uninformed personal opinion, there is a whole bunch of info that has been uncovered that we and the press know nothing about.
c_hawkbob wrote:Life imitating art ... who'd a thought a real life presidency would look so much like an extended SNL episode?
RiverDog wrote:Things got a little more interesting:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... spartanntp
It's pretty hard to see how this issue is going to be the magic pill that the Dems are looking for to overturn the results of the election. Trump brings up a good point: The Russians meddling occurred on Obama's watch, and if he was briefed about it and decided to not do anything, then it's going to be pretty hard to pin this on Trump.
Hawktawk wrote:Obama contemplated any number of things and ultimately chose to simply tell Putin personally to stop. It was typical obama to be very cautious when dealing with crisis. Russia invaded Crimea and he did little. Syria gassed its people and he erased his own line in the sand. Russia bombed moderate us backed fighters in syria, nothing. I've said repeatedly Obama created a political environment where a Chump could win due to his limp wristed lead from behind philosophy .
That said a cautious president is safer for America than a bipolar blowhard popping off top secrets and revealing his mental illness to the world daily on twitter.
Make no mistake the investigation is serious and some people are going to jail over it. One orange stink bloated fat spray tanned lunatic might be unemployed . Robert Mueller doesn't give a crap about polls or trumps tweets, in fact they bolster the case against him. He's in deep trouble regardless of anything obama did or didn't do.at least obama accepted the conclusions and did something . Trump still hasn't done a damn thing.
RiverDog wrote:[
I agree with most of what you are saying, but it has little to do with the point I am trying to make, which is that so far, "The Russia thing" this is not the silver bullet the Dems have been looking for that's going to take down Trump. The revelation about Obama's prior knowledge of potential Russian involvement adds an entirely new twist to this episode, a twist that dumps the opposition party right in the middle of it.
Trump has a legitimate point, that it's going to be pretty hard to hold him accountable about something that Obama was fully aware of and had the power to do something about it but chose not to. Because of Obama's inaction, they've lost the high ground. If it wasn't important enough for a sitting President to act on, it sure as heck isn't important enough to overturn the election via impeachment.
Hawktawk wrote:In todays political climate with all the low information voters you may be right. People poll out as caring, over 60 % believe trump tried to influence the investigation and more believe Comey than Trump. But the impeachment number is in the low 40% range. Also repubs have won all 4 special elections, granted in deep red areas than were razor close relative to previous elections. But as long as Trump remains viable to his base the Repubs in congress will not impeach.
But nobody including you to some extent is paying complete attention following the bouncing ball of this chronology.
For one Obama didn't do "nothing". He personally contacted Putin to tell him to stop. And he also had the intelligence released in early October so voters could be aware they were being played.
The problem was that access Hollywood leaked an hour after this press release and dominated the news cycle for a week. An hour after access Hollywood the Podesta tapes were dumped by wikileaks.
This was collusion by Russia on Trumps behalf whether he was aware of it or not. It dominated the rest of the election cycle, especially coupled with Comeys bombshell presser revealing a reopening of Hillary's investigation.
As for Trump he has repeatedly blasted the report of 17 agencies, called them Nazis at one point. He steadfastly returned to his narrative of no collusion, witch hunt etc. Now all of a sudden Obama is questioned on his handling of a scandal Trump denied existed and suddenly Trump blames Obama for the scandal he denied in tweets 3 days ago!!!!and still has done nothing to stop or punish!!!!!! MOF his administration would have already weakened the sanctions were it not for the political pressure and congressional over sight.
His cabinet has too many undisclosed meetings to count with Russian bankers, officials , spies and yet 38% give or take of voters buy this Horese$#1+!!!!![]()
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The buck stops at trumps desk. The statute of limitations on Obama expired on Jan 20, actually Nov 8 of 2016.
I, for one, plan on voting for my first Dem candidate for national office in my lifetime.
burrrton wrote:Not that it matters, but you're voting against Newhouse and you don't even know who they're putting up against him yet??
You know I don't like Trump, either, but I'm not going to work to flip the house from the party that at least pays lip-service to slowing the growth of spending.
Hawktawk wrote:Monkey
It is not debatable that he is a remorseless liar and mentally unstable twitter and cable TV addict just to name a few. As Ive said there are things to like about some of the policy proposals, I am a lifelong conservative after all.
Although Trump appears to be an empty suit who shifts with the wind depending on whether he was listening to Steve Bannon or his democrat daughter and pimple faced democrat son in law.....
Its the man. Its the steaming pile of excrement who said McCain wasn't a war hero because he got captured. The man who was 4 F from Vietnam on some obscure foot injury and then was taped on Howard stern calling the sex romps he had in the 70s avoiding STDs his "personal Vietnam" .
Are you kidding monkey? If you cant understand why reasonable people ( a strong majority of Americans) loathe this POS you are the unreasonable illogical one. Hes brought it all on himself with his big fat mouth and his groping hands and misspelled tweets.
F him now and forever. Theres things more important than public policy.I cheer the day he is gone, one way or another. Hes an embarrassment.
monkey wrote:Where is your outage at what Hillary did to victims of her pervert husband's rape? Where is your outrage over the millions those losers have gotten selling access through their B.S charity? Are you kidding me??? There is no moral equivalent here, it's not even remotely close.
Trump said things you didn't approve of, the Clinton's have actually done things that would land you or I in prison for life.
You're right, I don't get it...
Hawktawk wrote:Sorry monkey you have your head so far up your arse you need a windshield wiper on your bellybutton to see where you are going dude. If you cant see the proof right in front of you I cant help you. 57% disaproval, an all time record for a president in his 5th month shows more people than not get it including some republicans with integrity and common sense like myself.
I'm done debating Chump with you. You better stick to football because its better to be thought a fool then start typing and remove all doubt...
Largent80 wrote:LOL. The "Russia Thing" has become a smidge bigger since the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and the ridiculous attempt of "transparency" by jr. shows evidence of treason by meeting with Russians who claimed to have "dirt" on Clinton.
RiverDog wrote:Here's a good discussion of treason and what other crimes Junior might be charged with:
http://www.npr.org/2017/07/12/536729440 ... -answer-no
burrrton wrote:C'mon- we all know NPR is a noted conservative house organ.
Hawktawk wrote:Updates since I last visited this thread
Manafort and gates indicted and under house arrest
Flynn and his son under pressure to flip and probably have.
George Papadopoulos pleads out after likely being wired for months
Don jr and Kushner found to have had direct links to Wikileaks and apparent coordinated releases of Clinton e mails . Even DY himself seems to have been responding to Wikileaks requests to pump their organization as he mentioned it 156 times on the campaign trail .
Kushner , Trump Jr . Sessions can’t remember contacts, meetings , how to fill our disclosure forms under penalty of perjury.
This is the most important investigation in American history of the most sinister scandal in American history .
GO BOB MUELLER!!!!
Hawktawk wrote:This is the most important investigation in American history of the most sinister scandal in American history .
GO BOB MUELLER!!!!
RiverDog wrote:It's an important investigation, but most important in American history? It's way, way too early to make such a proclamation, and even if it does bear fruit, it would have an extremely high bar to clear in order to top other investigations, like the two JFK assassination investigations, 9/11, Watergate, and so on as being the most important in American history.
You're really going overboard on this Trump thing, Hawktawk. I hope you have enough introspection to see what is abundantly clear to the rest of us.
Aseahawkfan wrote:It sort of depends. As much as I don't like to agree with Hawktawk and his crazy Trump talk, this is one of the most important investigations in history right up there with Watergate or above. Watergate was at least other Americans engaging in illegal activities aimed at winning an election. This would be a foreign power installing a president, much live we've done many times to smaller nations. Fortunately, we have enough checks and balances in places to prevent a president from doing much even when a foreign power influences an election making it not such a cost effective activity.
If Mueller finds a foreign power had an material influence on an election installing a president friendly to them, that is a very big deal. A bigger deal than almost anything you mentioned given the JFK assassination is pretty much cleared of foreign involvement. It's bigger than Watergate if proven and as big as 9/11 given that was a foreign attack.
So far most of this seems to be stemming from older issues such as with Manafort and Gates. Not sure what will come of Flynn. Not sure Donald Jr. and Kushner did anything illegal other than accept information offered by wikileaks and talk to some foreign officials with information to use against an opponent, an extremely common form of obtaining information used by the Clinton Campaign as well when they hired a foreign investigator to dig up information on Trump that they released during the election. Seems a bunch of folks have forgotten that Hilary was using foreign sources to dig up information on Trump and was having it steadily released as well such as the stupid piss dossier. I guess she gets a pass because she lost.
We'll see what comes of it. Treason is a high bar to reach. Unless they find evidence of a clear deal between Russia and Trump, they won't reach that bar. Collecting information from foreign entities is common for both parties and won't lead to much other than some wrist slapping and minor charges. But real Treason would be a very big deal.
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