White House in Dissaray

[burrrton]

Treason is the crime of betraying one's country, not necessarily only in wartime or only in league with a specific enemy.

Well, yeah, but how do you get to "betrayal" with a non-enemy?

[RiverDog]

Treason is the crime of betraying one's country, not necessarily only in wartime or only in league with a specific enemy.

I beg your pardon, but you're dead wrong. From Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

And then there's this opinion:

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution.

http://www.quora.com/The-United-States- ... since-WWII

Hell, the Rosenbergs weren't even tried for treason, because we weren't at war with the USSR at the time they were tried.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps helping a foreign country to mess with our election would qualify. Not that there is any hint of that, of course.

I'd say that it would qualify as a high crime or misdemeanor, but not treason.

[c_hawkbob]

I beg your pardon, but you're dead wrong. From Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

And then there's this opinion:

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution.

http://www.quora.com/The-United-States- ... since-WWII

Hell, the Rosenbergs weren't even tried for treason, because we weren't at war with the USSR at the time they were tried.

I'll give you that as treason by the US constitution (which yes, is the point of the discussion), but not as the definition of the word.

[Hawktawk]

Here's where I see possible treason and I believe it is as clear as the nose on your face, hiding in plain sight.

The attack by the Russians on our democratic process has been described as "an act of cyber warfare" by many in the intelligence community and several senators most notably McCain.

There is ample evidence that Trumps top level campaign staff met a great number of times with Russian officials and failed to report it. Most notable the infamous meeting by top Trump advisors and his son with an email chain that clearly shows it was described as an attempt by Russia to unload dirt on Hillary has now got to the point Trump himself wrote a false account of explaining a meeting they had not previously disclosed had happened. That is a smoking gun showing a clear attempt at collusion and an attempt to cover it up.

Beyond that the commander in chief of the united states has bucked his entire intelligence community's conclusions and has in fact given our sworn enemies with nukes pointed at us cover for what they have done, falsely implicated China, north Korea, and even a fat kid weighing 400 pounds sitting on his bed for the hacks.

Today it is reported that Faux News concocted a false narrative that Seth Rich, democrat operative who was murdered in a bungled robbery was killed by democratic operatives for leaking DNC documents to Wikileaks. A private investigator named Rod Wheeler who was falsely quoted as having verified this bogus account has sued Faux and is seeking to depose Sean Spicer who has now verified he met with the Faux hacks about the story. He is also seeking to have Trump himself deposed in the matter, There is an email chain and recorded phone conversations suggesting Trump himself reviewed the story before it was published and that Trump actively lobbied to push it in spite of the families protest to quit making political hay over the dead body of their beloved son and brother. It is one of the most despicable pieces of misinformation I have ever heard of.

Again, all these things help Russia, our sworn enemy escape retribution for what has been described as the most successful election tampering operation in the history of the world.

As Romney so correctly said in the 2012 debates Russia is our "greatest geopolitical foe" . They have the most lethal nuclear systems on the planet. And yet our president has still neglected to sign a sanctions bill that was passed 98 to 2 in the senate and put on his desk Friday. It will become law either way, either by his period of time to respond expiring or by veto override which is certain but his inaction sends another message to Putin that Trump really is in his corner.

This man is giving aid and shelter to a sworn enemy of the west, responding to a reporter who said Putin is a killer by saying "we have a lot of killers, we aren't so perfect". He then went on to denigrate the service of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq as proof.

These are treasonous acts IMO, very dangerous and inexplicable except the thing Trump is hiding is apparently so bad he has no choice but to kiss Putin's rear-end for another 3.5 years if he lasts that long.
Impeach now!

[NorthHawk]

Here's where I see possible treason and I believe it is as clear as the nose on your face, hiding in plain sight.

The attack by the Russians on our democratic process has been described as "an act of cyber warfare" by many in the intelligence community and several senators most notably McCain.

There is ample evidence that Trumps top level campaign staff met a great number of times with Russian officials and failed to report it. Most notable the infamous meeting by top Trump advisors and his son with an email chain that clearly shows it was described as an attempt by Russia to unload dirt on Hillary has now got to the point Trump himself wrote a false account of explaining a meeting they had not previously disclosed had happened. That is a smoking gun showing a clear attempt at collusion and an attempt to cover it up.

Beyond that the commander in chief of the united states has bucked his entire intelligence community's conclusions and has in fact given our sworn enemies with nukes pointed at us cover for what they have done, falsely implicated China, north Korea, and even a fat kid weighing 400 pounds sitting on his bed for the hacks.

Today it is reported that Faux News concocted a false narrative that Seth Rich, democrat operative who was murdered in a bungled robbery was killed by democratic operatives for leaking DNC documents to Wikileaks. A private investigator named Rod Wheeler who was falsely quoted as having verified this bogus account has sued Faux and is seeking to depose Sean Spicer who has now verified he met with the Faux hacks about the story. He is also seeking to have Trump himself deposed in the matter, There is an email chain and recorded phone conversations suggesting Trump himself reviewed the story before it was published and that Trump actively lobbied to push it in spite of the families protest to quit making political hay over the dead body of their beloved son and brother. It is one of the most despicable pieces of misinformation I have ever heard of.

Again, all these things help Russia, our sworn enemy escape retribution for what has been described as the most successful election tampering operation in the history of the world.

As Romney so correctly said in the 2012 debates Russia is our "greatest geopolitical foe" . They have the most lethal nuclear systems on the planet. And yet our president has still neglected to sign a sanctions bill that was passed 98 to 2 in the senate and put on his desk Friday. It will become law either way, either by his period of time to respond expiring or by veto override which is certain but his inaction sends another message to Putin that Trump really is in his corner.

This man is giving aid and shelter to a sworn enemy of the west, responding to a reporter who said Putin is a killer by saying "we have a lot of killers, we aren't so perfect". He then went on to denigrate the service of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq as proof.

These are treasonous acts IMO, very dangerous and inexplicable except the thing Trump is hiding is apparently so bad he has no choice but to kiss Putin's rear-end for another 3.5 years if he lasts that long.
Impeach now!

These may be treasonous acts in a general sense, but as RD pointed out only they are only considered treasonous within specific parameters in the case of the President and his actions.
In this case, I would submit that any competent lawyer could successfully argue that the actions don't meet those parameters because war had not been declared. Sworn enemies aren't
enough if an active war is not in process.

[c_hawkbob]

Here's where I see possible treason and I believe it is as clear as the nose on your face, hiding in plain sight.

The attack by the Russians on our democratic process has been described as "an act of cyber warfare" by many in the intelligence community and several senators most notably McCain.

There is ample evidence that Trumps top level campaign staff met a great number of times with Russian officials and failed to report it. Most notable the infamous meeting by top Trump advisors and his son with an email chain that clearly shows it was described as an attempt by Russia to unload dirt on Hillary has now got to the point Trump himself wrote a false account of explaining a meeting they had not previously disclosed had happened. That is a smoking gun showing a clear attempt at collusion and an attempt to cover it up.

Beyond that the commander in chief of the united states has bucked his entire intelligence community's conclusions and has in fact given our sworn enemies with nukes pointed at us cover for what they have done, falsely implicated China, north Korea, and even a fat kid weighing 400 pounds sitting on his bed for the hacks.

Today it is reported that Faux News concocted a false narrative that Seth Rich, democrat operative who was murdered in a bungled robbery was killed by democratic operatives for leaking DNC documents to Wikileaks. A private investigator named Rod Wheeler who was falsely quoted as having verified this bogus account has sued Faux and is seeking to depose Sean Spicer who has now verified he met with the Faux hacks about the story. He is also seeking to have Trump himself deposed in the matter, There is an email chain and recorded phone conversations suggesting Trump himself reviewed the story before it was published and that Trump actively lobbied to push it in spite of the families protest to quit making political hay over the dead body of their beloved son and brother. It is one of the most despicable pieces of misinformation I have ever heard of.

Again, all these things help Russia, our sworn enemy escape retribution for what has been described as the most successful election tampering operation in the history of the world.

As Romney so correctly said in the 2012 debates Russia is our "greatest geopolitical foe" . They have the most lethal nuclear systems on the planet. And yet our president has still neglected to sign a sanctions bill that was passed 98 to 2 in the senate and put on his desk Friday. It will become law either way, either by his period of time to respond expiring or by veto override which is certain but his inaction sends another message to Putin that Trump really is in his corner.

This man is giving aid and shelter to a sworn enemy of the west, responding to a reporter who said Putin is a killer by saying "we have a lot of killers, we aren't so perfect". He then went on to denigrate the service of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq as proof.

These are treasonous acts IMO, very dangerous and inexplicable except the thing Trump is hiding is apparently so bad he has no choice but to kiss Putin's rear-end for another 3.5 years if he lasts that long.
Impeach now!

These may be treasonous acts in a general sense, but as RD pointed out only they are only considered treasonous within specific parameters in the case of the President and his actions.
In this case, I would submit that any competent lawyer could successfully argue that the actions don't meet those parameters because war had not been declared. Sworn enemies aren't
enough if an active war is not in process.

Whether they meet the specific criteria of treason per the constitution may well be relevant only as a technicality in history books, those acts certainly rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Nice post Hawktawk.

[Largent80]

While these acts may or may not be treasonous, they are deplorable.

Nixon>Trump?

[NorthHawk]

Whether they meet the specific criteria of treason per the constitution may well be relevant only as a technicality in history books, those acts certainly rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Good point, but I wonder if a good team of Lawyers could weasel him out of that (definitions of high crimes and misdemeanors), after all they make their living on twisting meanings and parsing words.
And I echo your comment to HT. Nice summary of the goings on and the argument he is making.

[RiverDog]

I'll give you that as treason by the US constitution (which yes, is the point of the discussion), but not as the definition of the word.

So then why are you throwing a different definition of the term into our discussion if you admit that it is irrelevant?

[c_hawkbob]

I'll give you that as treason by the US constitution (which yes, is the point of the discussion), but not as the definition of the word.

So then why are you throwing a different definition of the term into our discussion if you admit that it is irrelevant?

I wasn't "throwing" anything anywhere, I was going by the meaning of the word as I know it, I wasn't aware of the constitution's narrowing of it's application to specifically wartime and specifically with our enemy in that war until you made me so.

[RiverDog]

I wasn't "throwing" anything anywhere, I was going by the meaning of the word as I know it, I wasn't aware of the constitution's narrowing of it's application to specifically wartime and specifically with our enemy in that war until you made me so.

OK, I can handle that. It's not often that I catch you off guard. Thanks for the acknowledgement.

[Largent80]

Hey...OJ Simpson murdered 2 people and walked. Just sayin'.

[Hawktawk]

Trump begrudgingly signed the sanctions bill 6 days after it hit his desk without cameras present and then proceeded to rip congress for tying his hands in his ability to "make deals" with foreign countries. He called the bill "flawed". He said "my company is worth billions, I can make far better deals than congress". He said he only signed the bill in the interest of "national unity".
As I predicted, he sent a very mixed message and a clear signal to Vlad Putin that he is still on his side, not that of our national intelligence or our congress.
On another incredible note apparently he told guests at one of his golf courses that he spends weekends at his clubs because the white house is "a real dump". By all means then GET THE F#K OUT!!!!!!!

You cant make it up folks. If people gave a S#!= anymore the dude would already be impaled on 1 million pitchforks.

Thanks for the props on the previous narrative guys! even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again

[Largent80]

Here is the thing HawkTalk. People DO give a s***, especially since all of this happened last November and even before that with the incredible ineptness of the DNC and Wasserman-Shultz.

To me, and millions of others Bernie should be president now, and N O N E of this foolishness would even be talked about.

Water under the bridge, but here we are. People Do give a s*** and congress and house is coming up, they know it and that's why they are eating their young. Changes are coming and Turtle Boy is goin down.

[RiverDog]

To me, and millions of others Bernie should be president now, and N O N E of this foolishness would even be talked about.

Even though I don't like his politics, I would have voted for Sanders had he been on the ballot vs. Trump. But our two choices were so completely unacceptable that I decided to vote my conscious not relative to who else was listed on the ballet and refused to be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils that the two major parties were presenting us with. Evil is still evil. And don't think for a minute that Hillary Clinton wouldn't have gotten herself embroiled in a scandal by now had she been elected, just that it would have with red China instead of Russia.

[Hawktawk]

More and more people are deserting Trump every day. Rasmussen which is very favorable and had trump at 50% a few weeks ago is 38 today and Gallup is 34. At this pace the magic number of 20 something may be only weeks or maybe days away. Especially with comments like the one about the WH being a dump and discovered to have lied about 2 phone calls from the leader of the Boy Scouts and the president of Mexico, neither of which happened. This is a deeply disturbed abnormal man and slowly but surely it is becoming obvious to even some of his fanatical base. There is no happy ending with this guy around.

[RiverDog]

More and more people are deserting Trump every day. Rasmussen which is very favorable and had trump at 50% a few weeks ago is 38 today and Gallup is 34. At this pace the magic number of 20 something may be only weeks or maybe days away. Especially with comments like the one about the WH being a dump and discovered to have lied about 2 phone calls from the leader of the Boy Scouts and the president of Mexico, neither of which happened. This is a deeply disturbed abnormal man and slowly but surely it is becoming obvious to even some of his fanatical base. There is no happy ending with this guy around.

Yea, but it's not exactly a straight line function. It's a lot easier to lose support from 45% down to 35% than it is to go from 35% to 25% as you're driving deep into his base. The folks that have deserted him recently aren't the hard core radicals that worship the ground he walks on, they're the single issue folks that voted for him based on one particular reason, such as his America first pledge or because his name wasn't Hillary Clinton. The degree of difficulty of swaying the opinion of hard core Trump supporters is a lot more problematic than swaying those single issue, vote for who he isn't rather than who he is voters.

[Largent80]

Rump hasn't had to deal with any world issues. N.Korea may change that.

His ratings could go either way after that depending on what decision he makes.

[Largent80]

Congressional investigators are now wanting all phone records and texts regarding the Russian meetings with Jr.

Ha, well, here we go.

[Hawktawk]

[

Yea, but it's not exactly a straight line function. It's a lot easier to lose support from 45% down to 35% than it is to go from 35% to 25% as you're driving deep into his base. The folks that have deserted him recently aren't the hard core radicals that worship the ground he walks on, they're the single issue folks that voted for him based on one particular reason, such as his America first pledge or because his name wasn't Hillary Clinton. The degree of difficulty of swaying the opinion of hard core Trump supporters is a lot more problematic than swaying those single issue, vote for who he isn't rather than who he is voters.

I think he will hit the 20s in ten days or less at least some poll. Remember RD as you have astutely stated the economy is doing well, market is amazing, unemployment down , immigration crackdown a success and there are polls that have the guy at 31...........it's the man himself. He is frighteningly unhinged and its becoming more and more obvious. His strong support is at 22% and that's a week ago.......its frightening that this is the supposed leader of the free world

[burrrton]

He is frighteningly unhinged

What are the top, say, three things he's done recently that tell you he's unhinged, as opposed to, say, just a guy out of his depth, HT? That's pretty strong language, so I'm honestly curious.

[Hawktawk]

Habitual liar who invented 2 phone calls that never happened along with countless other provable lies.

Swerving from a question about infrastructure to a ten minute diatribe of how he won Ohio. Tweeting a transgender ban with absolutely no consultation with the joint chiefs. Tweeting about North Korea, China etc concerning grave military crisis in a disjointed fashion that shows he has no real grasp of any domestic or foreign policy .A pathological devotion to vlad Putin.

Our allies are described as being "confused and concerned" our enemies are laughing their ass off.

The dude is a clear and present danger.
So I'll turn the tables and ask you why you think any of this is ok or is that another false choice?

[burrrton]

So I'll turn the tables and ask you why you think any of this is ok or is that another false choice?

LOL. Of course it's a false choice. Jeezus, HT- I've explained it to you, what, three times now?

Where the hell did I say his behavior is "ok"? "Unhinged", to me, is "Jews in the ovens" type stuff, not simply some dope who clearly has little idea what he's doing.

Just because you can't dial it down from 11 doesn't mean nobody else can.

[Hawktawk]

He is nuts. He's crazy. Look in his puffy eyes and perpetual scowl. As a bipolar man diagnosed and medicated I see someone far far more fd up than me and he has the nuclear codes. He's commander in chief. Whatever man you are deluded if you see this as a stable situation

[Seahawks4Ever]

Wow, now Trumpsters want to justify treason. Oh, why not, you pukes have already been trying to explain away all the rest of his high crimes and misdemenors. Oh, and what hypocrites you all are when you know perfectly well that if Obama had done a thousandth of what Trump has already done you would have been screaming for his head.

One of my favorite by you craven hypocrites is the "Sgt. Schultz" "I see NOTHING!" "I Know NOTHING!" retort when you deny all of the over whelming evidence of Trump's corruption.

I also don't want to hear from any Trump supporters who are also vets. Guess what? Being a vet doesn't mean you get commit treason or support a POTUS who is a traitor. The biggest traitor in American history, Benedict Arnold was one of nation's gratest heroes, right up until he committed his treachery.

All you Trumpsters are doing by following and supporting this chump is helping a traitor commit treason. I actually read some puke in here actually say that Russia is NOT an enemy of the U.S.A. since when??? Only a TRAITOR would say that Russia is no enemy of ours.

I guess cyber attacking us and putting our general election in danger by Russia was "no big deal". YEAH? EF You U Putin loving TRAITORS!!!

[c_hawkbob]

So I'll turn the tables and ask you why you think any of this is ok or is that another false choice?

LOL. Of course it's a false choice. Jeezus, HT- I've explained it to you, what, three times now?

Where the hell did I say his behavior is "ok"? "Unhinged", to me, is "Jews in the ovens" type stuff, not simply some dope who clearly has little idea what he's doing.

Just because you can't dial it down from 11 doesn't mean nobody else can.

Asking you for clarification of your point of view is not a false choice. There is no choice involved, not "is it this or is it that", it's just "why do you think what he is doing is OK?.

Meanwhile your answer is clearly setting up another opportunity for you to claim false choice by implying that if it's not "Jews in the oven" it's not crazy ... but of course that's not what you said, right?

[Hawktawk]

In a meeting with his military commanders McMaster and Mattis Trump blurted out that we are "losing in Afghanistan"( not debating that ) and abruptly suggesting the firing of the general in charge of leading the fight. McMaster and Mattis were reportedly "stunned and angry". Another rambling off the cuff message to the military like the blindside transgender ban tweeted in the early morning hours. It was also dishonest in that he said he had consulted with the military brass when in fact he had not.
Apparently Kelley and Mattis had already devised a strategy of having one or the other in the immediate proximity of Trump when he is in the US since they do not trust him to make rational decisions regarding the military.
The guy is so off his rocker he is unfit to be the commander in chief. I believe he is insane or as Sen Susan Collins said on a hot Mic " I think he's crazy, I am worried". Me too.

Policies come and go and he's on about 9 sides of all of them except restricting free trade and ethnic cleansing. But commander in chief is the most sacred of his duties and has always been my concern since about a week after he got in the race and I got a chance to parse his words.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not qualified to say someone is nuts or crazy, but he does seem to have some uncommon dominating personality traits.
Some are:
He's been proven to be an inveterate liar to the point he begins to believe his own lies.
He has to be seen as the winner in any situation and center of attention in any group.
He's a supreme narcissist to the point he thinks he knows more than the Generals and National Security cyber warfare personnel.
He refuses to read anything, relying on his own gut instinct (possibly supported by the lies he now believes are true).
He's a bully by nature and seems to project his own failings onto others (Lying Ted, Little Marco, etc.).

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more, but does the whole list make one come to the conclusion of mental instability?
He's surely not someone I would want as a close friend, as I wouldn't be able to trust him, but in the normal world I would tolerate him for short periods of time and think he's just odd.

[burrrton]

Asking you for clarification of your point of view is not a false choice.

Holy sht. Ok, again:

He leapt from me saying (loosely) "Uhinged is a strong word to me- what exactly did he do?" straight to "So explain why you think this is 'ok'!"

THOSE AREN'T THE ONLY TWO CHOICES, for chrissakes. This isn't hard.

Further, I've clarified my opinion of Trump a million gddmn times- if you're actually reading what I write, asking for "clarification" about it at this point is ridiculous. I think he's incompetent, inexperienced, narcissistic, and thin-skinned, and it shows.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more, but does the whole list make one come to the conclusion of mental instability?

Maybe (and that seems, to me, to be a more reasonable way to characterize it- careful, though- they'll start calling you a 'TRUMPAR').

I think I could name a lot of people who exhibit many of those characteristics, though (including our last POTUS)- I won't speak for anyone else, but I need more than "He's a cocksure bully who lies a lot" before I'm going to sht the bed 24/7/365.

Your mileage may vary.

[Largent80]

Now this jackass wants to try and limit even "legal" immigrants.

Does this tool actually think he can change the foundations of this country? "Merit Based" immigrants?......This guy.

Really?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/trumps- ... stolo.html

[Largent80]

The RAISE Act, proposed by Sens. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., and David Perdue, R-Ga. and backed by Trump, would aim to make job skills a priority for people to obtain legal permanent residency.

Kiss your asses goodbye. senators.

[RiverDog]

Now this jackass wants to try and limit even "legal" immigrants.

Does this tool actually think he can change the foundations of this country? "Merit Based" immigrants?......This guy.

Really?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/trumps- ... stolo.html

There are some elements of Trump's immigration reform initiative that I can agree with, particularly with a merit based system modeled after those that Canada and Australia have had in place for some time.

Immigrants should be able to demonstrate a basic ability to communicate in English in order to report accidents or crimes, understand the instructions of police and other first responders, and to aid them in securing employment. I'm not talking about speaking fluently, all they should be required to have is a 500 word vocabulary.

Preference should be given to those that have formal educations or marketable job skills, and employers recommendations or requests should be given priority. I also do not like lotteries or simply admitting them because they already have family here. It should be based on qualifications much like applying for a job.

But what I don't agree with is what Trump is proposing regarding limitations. The number of immigrants we admit to this country is fairly low when measured against percentage of our population. The limits should be somewhere in line with what other countries in the western world, ie Great Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, etc, are admitting. He needs to make his case for slashing the number of immigrants by the numbers he's proposing. I do not accept his reasoning for the limitations, particularly if we go to more of a merit based system where we are admitting self supporting individuals.

[Largent80]

BULLSHIT.

This country was founded on Immigrants, not Immigrants that are required to speak English, or show a certain amount of skill to enter this country.

What a crock of absolute s***.

[Hawktawk]

The immigration policy along with extreme vetting of middle Eastern refugees is something I can see some points of agreement in theory . My dad immigrated from Sweden 70 years ago. At that time immigrants had to have a family member to live with, a prospect of employment and were required to learn English within a year.
Dad met the requirements and when he died in 2013 at 90
He spoke 5 languages and left a legacy of building hydroelectric dams and bridges all over the world.
Had there been a requirement he speak English coming in the door he likely would never have been able to leave a powerful imprint on the fabric of our nation.
The thing with trump is he's a thinly disguised racist pig. Beyond that if Hispanics are barred from legally entering as aliens with green cards the agricultural community will collapse unless people want to pay twice as much for food to have wages high enough to lure lazy white people into the fields.


It's a moot point because this congress has given up on this jackass and will not support him in anything especially if he keeps trashing them on Twitter as he departs for a 17 day vacation.....

[RiverDog]

The immigration policy along with extreme vetting of middle Eastern refugees is something I can see some points of agreement in theory . My dad immigrated from Sweden 70 years ago. At that time immigrants had to have a family member to live with, a prospect of employment and were required to learn English within a year.
Dad met the requirements and when he died in 2013 at 90
He spoke 5 languages and left a legacy of building hydroelectric dams and bridges all over the world.
Had there been a requirement he speak English coming in the door he likely would never have been able to leave a powerful imprint on the fabric of our nation.
The thing with trump is he's a thinly disguised racist pig. Beyond that if Hispanics are barred from legally entering as aliens with green cards the agricultural community will collapse unless people want to pay twice as much for food to have wages high enough to lure lazy white people into the fields.


It's a moot point because this congress has given up on this jackass and will not support him in anything especially if he keeps trashing them on Twitter as he departs for a 17 day vacation.....

That was then, Hawktalk. The world has changed since then. I've traveled to a number of foreign countries and I was surprised to see how many people spoke at least some English. They all want American dollars and they realize that the quickest and easiest way is to learn the language. Many countries teach English in their schools and some, like the Netherlands, require it from first grade. My best friend that has traveled abroad much more extensively than I have claims that the ability to speak English is spreading so fast that some day the entire world will be able to speak it.

About 80% of my crew is foreign born and learned English as a second language. Most if not all knew at least some English, probably close to the 500 word vocabulary that I suggested, before they came to this country, which includes people from not only Mexico (which represents a minority of my crew), but from southeast Asia, eastern Europe, China, and Africa. And although I can't speak for my whole crew, I am confident that a majority of them see the wisdom of such a requirement and would support it. Their problem is that Trump has already poisoned the well with his racist attitudes so they don't trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

Having a very limited ability to communicate in English is not at all unreasonable and would not disqualify all that many of those that apply. Heck, all we're talking about is applicants taking a 6 month ESL class. If they're serious about immigrating to this country, it would be no problem for them to pick up enough English to qualify. And keep in mind that we're not talking about green cards, guest workers, or work visas. This is about those that want to come here to live full time and eventually become American citizens.

Actually I think that the Republicans in Congress are desperate to find an issue on which they can agree with the President on. They want to have something to show for their time other than opposing everything that the leader of their party is advocating. But if I were in their shoes, I'd demand a few things in return for my support, such as scuttling his plans for building a wall on the Mexican border.

[Hawktawk]

Wsj reports a grand jury has been empaneled regarding the Russia investigation in DC. Uh oh

[NorthHawk]

As usual, the devil is in the details.
With the merit based scoring system it depends a lot on how much emphasis is put on things like the ability to speak English.
For instance, if the total possible score is 100 and the maximum points for speaking English is 5, then it might not be that big of a deal, but it it's worth 25 points, then it becomes a big obstacle for some otherwise worthy people.
And a merit based system has some advantages if the society is targeting a specific industry or technology.
For instance if there was a big push on nuclear power and there was a shortfall of nuclear engineers, a merit based system could be part of the solution. It's not the only answer, but could be a part of the answer.

[NorthHawk]

Wsj reports a grand jury has been empaneled regarding the Russia investigation in DC. Uh oh

Interesting.
That means there must be some evidence of wrongdoing which, if true flies in the face of those saying it's been months of an investigation with nothing to show for it.
Whether the Grand Jury recommends proceeding to charges or not will tell us a lot about the quality of the evidence.

[Hawktawk]

It's in plain sight. People are going to do time maybe lots of them. Nixon is off the hook as the most corrupt president I. History. This scandal will dwarf watergate when it's said and done .