White House in Dissaray

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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:59 pm

Wsj reports a grand jury has been empaneled regarding the Russia investigation in DC. Uh oh
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:08 pm

As usual, the devil is in the details.
With the merit based scoring system it depends a lot on how much emphasis is put on things like the ability to speak English.
For instance, if the total possible score is 100 and the maximum points for speaking English is 5, then it might not be that big of a deal, but it it's worth 25 points, then it becomes a big obstacle for some otherwise worthy people.
And a merit based system has some advantages if the society is targeting a specific industry or technology.
For instance if there was a big push on nuclear power and there was a shortfall of nuclear engineers, a merit based system could be part of the solution. It's not the only answer, but could be a part of the answer.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:12 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Wsj reports a grand jury has been empaneled regarding the Russia investigation in DC. Uh oh


Interesting.
That means there must be some evidence of wrongdoing which, if true flies in the face of those saying it's been months of an investigation with nothing to show for it.
Whether the Grand Jury recommends proceeding to charges or not will tell us a lot about the quality of the evidence.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:30 pm

It's in plain sight. People are going to do time maybe lots of them. Nixon is off the hook as the most corrupt president I. History. This scandal will dwarf watergate when it's said and done .
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:48 pm

NorthHawk wrote:As usual, the devil is in the details.
With the merit based scoring system it depends a lot on how much emphasis is put on things like the ability to speak English.
For instance, if the total possible score is 100 and the maximum points for speaking English is 5, then it might not be that big of a deal, but it it's worth 25 points, then it becomes a big obstacle for some otherwise worthy people.
And a merit based system has some advantages if the society is targeting a specific industry or technology.
For instance if there was a big push on nuclear power and there was a shortfall of nuclear engineers, a merit based system could be part of the solution. It's not the only answer, but could be a part of the answer.


Wouldn't that depend on the level of proficiency that is required? A 500 word vocabulary isn't much, just the very basic stuff necessary for emergency situations. Besides, if they're going to be employable, then they are going to have to learn at least some English. Most work places that offer jobs for anything other than farm labor, like my place of work, requires that all successful applicants be able to verbally communicate in English.

But the main thing is that we should be admitting worthy candidates based on some type of objective criteria, not just those that won a random lottery or simply because they have family over here. I'm all for a robust (relative to Trump's proposal) immigration policy, but I want the cream of the crop, those that are going to make good citizens and can pull their own weight.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:57 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Wsj reports a grand jury has been empaneled regarding the Russia investigation in DC. Uh oh


Yep. No surprise. Mueller needs subpoena power. This is going to be interesting. Trump warned Mueller not to go fishing into Trump's financial dealings, but that sure looks like where its heading.

"The increased financial focus hasn't gone unnoticed by Trump, who warned Mueller, via an interview with The New York Times, that his financial dealings were a red line that investigators shouldn't cross. But the order establishing the special counsel makes clear Mueller is authorized to investigate any matters that "arose or may arise directly from the investigation."

I'll be curious to see of Mueller is going to call Trump's bluff. He has to know that if he fires Mueller, that it could be the equivalent to Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre that accelerated Nixon's downfall. Here's a pretty good, detailed article about the investigation:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/politics/ ... index.html
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:15 am

Maybe a word or two about skills. During a period of between jobs, while I was putting out resumes and the like, I worked for a while to pick up beer money with my nephew, who is probably now in his sixties, (I'm 73), and needed help harvesting a crop of apples in Wenatchee, this was in the late 80's early 90's. He had been doing this kind of work for a few years. Just the two of us in a big orchard, and I am now convinced he did this for me more than he did for himself, because he would pick 4 to 5 trees to my one, and I was bustin' my butt.

You can not hire a bunch of high school kids to bring a harvest with anywhere near the skill that a seasoned worker will. You probably know that from your own experience.

I also worked in hotels and bars when a student at university, and was familiar with a large number of immigrants who did the dirty work. Same when I worked in hospitals.

We do not get stronger and more viable by downgrading people. We do not get bigger by pushing little people down. We provide opportunity, and a chance for a better life. I am poor. I live in an inexpensive condo, surrounded by college students (long may they prosper), and some months seem hairier than others. But, in reality I live like a king. My own space, a door I can lock, plumbing, electricity, heat on demand, or, a veritable castle to much of the world. I can drink tap water. I HAVE tap water.

As a country we have a legacy of including people, not rejecting or condemning. I hate to see us bend away from that. So, we get more crowded. Look at the world.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:45 am

We do not get stronger and more viable by downgrading people. We do not get bigger by pushing little people down. We provide opportunity, and a chance for a better life. I am poor. I live in an inexpensive condo, surrounded by college students (long may they prosper), and some months seem hairier than others. But, in reality I live like a king. My own space, a door I can lock, plumbing, electricity, heat on demand, or, a veritable castle to much of the world. I can drink tap water. I HAVE tap water.

As a country we have a legacy of including people, not rejecting or condemning. I hate to see us bend away from that. So, we get more crowded. Look at the world.


I've had very similar life experiences as well as the opportunity to see how people have to live in the rest of the world (Phillipines, Korea, Hong Kong etc.) and I agree wholeheartedly.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:03 am

Old but Slow wrote:We do not get stronger and more viable by downgrading people. We do not get bigger by pushing little people down. We provide opportunity, and a chance for a better life. I am poor. I live in an inexpensive condo, surrounded by college students (long may they prosper), and some months seem hairier than others. But, in reality I live like a king. My own space, a door I can lock, plumbing, electricity, heat on demand, or, a veritable castle to much of the world. I can drink tap water. I HAVE tap water.

As a country we have a legacy of including people, not rejecting or condemning. I hate to see us bend away from that. So, we get more crowded. Look at the world.


That's a pretty general statement, so I'm not clear as to whether or not you agree or disagree with all or parts of Trump's immigration policy proposals. But for what it's worth, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, albeit it with some conditions.

Like Cbob, I've had an opportunity to see what life is like for people in the 3rd world, even got an opportunity to attend a grade school class in the Amazon jungle (which was a real kick in the pants!), but I might have come away with a slightly different take than what many of my fellow Americans might have.

I witnessed to what to us spoiled Americans would rate as incomprehensible poverty, but I did not associate it with despair. The people I came across were well fed and seemed to be living happy, although strikingly different, lives than what we are accustomed to here in the United States. It wasn't a situation where I left feeling sorry for them.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:13 pm

LMAO you just have to laugh its so ridiculous.http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/late-night/ ... vi-AApoIjC
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:19 pm

Hawktawk wrote:LMAO you just have to laugh its so ridiculous.http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/late-night/ ... vi-AApoIjC


Now that's the spirit! Glad that you stepped away from the abyss.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:44 pm

Ha!

Image
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:29 pm

If you don't like Trump, Colbert's daily monologue is must see tv.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:05 pm

Oh god so is Keith Olbermann!
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:17 am

The Presidents show on Comedy Central is pretty good as well.

http://www.cc.com/episodes/7p7euk/the-p ... n-1-ep-113
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:53 am

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/not ... id=UE07DHP

I'll say it again.
America has never been in greater peril than with koo koo for cocoa puffs popping off like this and holding unchecked authority to launch nukes.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:37 am

Cheeto-Jeezus™....Is a windbag. I think cooler heads at the military level will prevail, but Rump is SO unfit to be a leader of the most powerful country in the world.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:15 am

Fire and Fury. He must think he still has his dumb assed show.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:38 am

"Fire and Fury" is an 80's metal band right?

Only their hair is burned off.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:53 am

Donald Trump is flying over New York City. He looks out of the window and says to his family, "You know what, I'm gonna throw ten $100 bills out of the window and make ten people very happy!"..... His son looks at him and says, "Dad, why don't you throw two hundred $5 bills out of the window? Then you can make two hundred people happy."... Donald says, "Son, that's a great idea!"... His wife turns to him and says, "Donald, why not throw one thousand $1 bills out the window? You could make one thousand people happy!"... Donald looks at her and says, "Babe, that is a fantastic idea! The best I've heard!"... The pilot turns and looks at Trump and says, "As long as you're at it, why don't you throw yourself out of the window and make millions of people happy?"
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:45 pm

They after the e-mails again. Some federal judge has said the Justice Dept should relook at the thing.

Someone today, maybe Juanita Jean Herownself, suggested that the Wall should be built using Hilary's e-mails, because nobody can seem to get over them.

S/
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:36 am

Old but Slow wrote:They after the e-mails again. Some federal judge has said the Justice Dept should relook at the thing.

Someone today, maybe Juanita Jean Herownself, suggested that the Wall should be built using Hilary's e-mails, because nobody can seem to get over them.

S/


Yea, they're kicking a dead horse with this pursuit of Hillary Clinton. Politically she's a corpse, her career in politics ending last November. Let it go.

But it does serve as a reminder as to how corrupt the Democrats alternative to Trump was. I am fully convinced that if Clinton rather than Trump were elected that she'd be embroiled in some type of scandal by now. Gawd, this was such a horrible choice that the two major parties gave us.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:03 am

RiverDog wrote:
Yea, they're kicking a dead horse with this pursuit of Hillary Clinton. Politically she's a corpse, her career in politics ending last November. Let it go.

But it does serve as a reminder as to how corrupt the Democrats alternative to Trump was. I am fully convinced that if Clinton rather than Trump were elected that she'd be embroiled in some type of scandal by now. Gawd, this was such a horrible choice that the two major parties gave us.

You got that right. Disgusting.
Frankly Id rather be in loyal opposition to Killary for 4 years than have this unstable lunatic bull in a china closet endangering the entire world with his bellicose rhetoric.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:33 pm

Hawktawk wrote:You got that right. Disgusting.
Frankly Id rather be in loyal opposition to Killary for 4 years than have this unstable lunatic bull in a china closet endangering the entire world with his bellicose rhetoric.


Yea, and now he's pissed off red China as they indicated that they'd come to North Korea's defense if we were to engage in a preemptive strike. Trump needs to heed the advice of one of our more famous presidents..."Walk softly and carry a big stick." One of our best ways to keep that little tin pot dictator in check is to turn China against him, and getting them upset at our rhetoric isn't helping that cause.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Trump is such an idiot."I'm disappointed in China"....Why not TALK to them before opening your worthless mouth you f***?

They have a serious amount of nukes pointed right at all major U.S. Cities and can use them.

Awesome.

I thought growing up as a kid in the drop duck and cover era was over, but thanks to Rump, we may all be gone.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby burrrton » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Trump needs to heed the advice of one of our more famous presidents..."Walk softly and carry a big stick."


Yup. Hopefully Mattis and Tillerson can exert some influence on him.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:52 pm

burrrton wrote:Yup. Hopefully Mattis and Tillerson can exert some influence on him.


They have already spoken out on the issue. Mattis warned that little P.O.S. to cease actions that could lead to the end of his regime and destruction of its people. Very blunt but much less inflammatory than his boss's rhetoric.

There has to be a line drawn in the sand, but not the way Trump was doing it.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:19 am

In other news the Mooch will be on Colbert's show on Monday.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:13 pm

Trump's KKK Boyz in da House.

Man, what has happened to this country???
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Largent80 wrote:Trump's KKK Boyz in da House.

Man, what has happened to this country???


Trump did call for the end of "hatred and bigotry", but his reaction was entirely inadequate. He should have used language similar to House Speaker Ryan, who called white supremacy a "scourge". That's one of the reasons why I didn't vote for Trump, because he's not the type of leader that I want as our President. He has no conscience.

But it is way overboard and completely unfair to blame him for the events in Virginia.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:49 am

Trump pulls punches for nobody except 2 people. Vlad Putin and the David Dukes of the world. The man is a flat out racist and strongman sympathiser, the most foul repugnant blight ever upon the American political process since the civil war ended.

Yes he bears some responsibility. Ultimately a 20 year old hate filled idiot can be controlled by no one but the uncontrolled 71 year old idiotic demagogue has definitely created an atmosphere that has thrown gasoline on the fire.
Make America great is really make America white and his goonish neo Nazi followers who voted 100% for him get the subliminal message.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:51 am

Like I said before Trump's Boyz were and ARE in da house....

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/david-duke-bla ... 13997.html

Duke, who has long espoused racist and anti-Semitic views as well as conspiracy theories (including denial of the Holocaust), attended the “Unite the Right” rally on Saturday, calling the event a “turning point.”

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke told Indianapolis Star journalist Mykal McEldowney.

“We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump,” he said. “That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:58 am

Anonymous takes over the Daily Stormer

https://www.dailystormer.com/hacked-ano ... y-stormer/
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby kalibane » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:35 am

RiverDog wrote:
But it is way overboard and completely unfair to blame him for the events in Virginia.


Steve Bannon is his chief strategist. Steven Miller is his chief policy adviser. Jeff Sessions is his attorney general. One of the first things they did when they got in office was to have the CVE stop investigating white nationalist terror groups.

Trump not only has his own checkered history with race (housing discrimination, etc.). He chose to put racists around him. He made policy choices that made it easier on white nationalist terror groups. He may not have planned the rally or driven the car, but the people he has hired/appointed, the actions he has taken (or not taken) have created an environment where the people who are directly responsible felt comfortable doing it. He is to blame in some measure.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:13 am

Besides that the divisive and hateful rhetoric he employed to win the election has embolden these fringe lunatics; "we don't have to put up with n***ers and immigrants no more, that why we got Trump" is a whole lot more pervasive attitude around this part of the country than I thought possible. Trump is a whole lot to blame.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:25 am

That was a large part of his campaign. He garnered tons of those KKK votes along with LBGT votes, then he promptly threw those voters under the bus.

Make no mistake, HE is indirectly responsible for this uprising in white supremacy. Look at his staff. Sessions is one of the biggest racists on this planet. Bannon...OMG

McMaster shape shifting yesterday and not answering Chucks questions says a lot. McMaster may be ok but those others are deplorable.

Trump not condemning specific groups, especially while walking away from the podium while being asked a question that would have went a long way to support his claims of not being associated with these groups says a lot about him...GUILTY.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:02 am

kalibane wrote:Steve Bannon is his chief strategist. Steven Miller is his chief policy adviser. Jeff Sessions is his attorney general. One of the first things they did when they got in office was to have the CVE stop investigating white nationalist terror groups.

Trump not only has his own checkered history with race (housing discrimination, etc.). He chose to put racists around him. He made policy choices that made it easier on white nationalist terror groups. He may not have planned the rally or driven the car, but the people he has hired/appointed, the actions he has taken (or not taken) have created an environment where the people who are directly responsible felt comfortable doing it. He is to blame in some measure.


I'll agree that there's some indirect responsibility that should fall on Trump and will go further than you have and will characterize him as a full blown racist, as his wholly inadequate response proves. But you're blaming the restaurant for their customers over eating if you're going to assign to him much more than a tiny fraction of the blame. I would put much more blame on local officials for their inadequate planning and the police for their slow response than I would anybody inside the beltway.

These neo Nazis and white supremacy groups have a 100 year history of this kind of violence, and with all the means officials had of detecting trouble in advance, such as activity on social media, they should have been able to tell that they were heading for big trouble. This was avoidable.

By the way, nice to see you posting again!
Last edited by RiverDog on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 am

Sorry RD, but blaming police and officials for this tragedy is lame at best.

They should have just removed the statue and not said anything and there is no problem.

But this goes WAY beyond a effing statue. This is the hate that Trump is responsible for, not police, not officials or anyone else.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby kalibane » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:44 am

Can't agree with you about the local officials. Governor mobilized the national guard before the rally took place. Police were out there in relative force. They also tried to stop the rally in the first place but the ACLU sued and won to grant them the permits.

This is just more bleed over from some of the behavior at his rallies. I don't think the locals handled this perfectly by any means. But a lot of these people are spoiling for a fight. I feel like the groups involved were obviously the most responsible but in terms of indirect responsibility it falls more on Trump and right wing media who have coddled these people, exploited their racial animus for ratings and/or votes and made them feel their anger and grievances are legitimate which in turn makes any actions taken feel justified.

Once you feel justified, law enforcement is no longer that much of a deterrent.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:50 am

When you have feeder site's like the Daily Stormer promoting it, this is what you get.
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