Good Article About Offensive Line

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Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:18 am

Here's a pretty good discussion of the offensive line situation heading into training camp:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 13693.html

The wild card appears to be left tackle George Fant. If he, indeed, has improved and can man the LT spot, it will allow Joeckel to move in to left guard, where according to Tom Cable, he was one of the best LG's in the league before he got hurt.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:56 am

Most important statement:

And now today: 2. Settling on and improving the offensive line.

The Seahawks must do this, and do it far earlier than they did last year.


I've been saying this for months that they have to get players settled into the positions they are going to compete for early and let them learn how to play there as well as learn how to play with the players beside them.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby curmudgeon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:39 pm

Cable and Bevfool surely must be on the hot seat. 2017 is put up or shut up for this offense......
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Hawktawk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:50 am

Remember even as bad as last year was a playoff rush record was set vs Detroit. Seattle started strong vs Atlanta until Ifedi went down.

I liked Fant last year much of the time and he could be an Antonio gates type of transitional player or should I say transformational . I'm optimistic.if this team can run they can do it all.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:20 am

They signed Lemuel Jeanpierre as an assistant coach for the OL.
He might turn out to be pretty good as he was said to really understand the plays and had a great memory of what people did.
Oftentimes the journeyman type of player turns out to be a good coach because they had to really understand the game and overcome physical limitations.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:08 am

Thanx Dog for that article from the T.N.T. , it was just the news I have been hoping to hear (or read) , this is great, should Fant and the rest of the projected starters remain healthy. O.K. , now they need to beef up the depth on the O-line because we all know injuries will happen, and always at the worst possible time.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Zorn76 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:20 am

The OL only has to be decent for this offense to do much better.
Until then - and especially on the road - Bevell needs to get back to mixing in a short passing game to help offset the growing pains that'll come.
We did a nice job of this to close out the 2015 season, then got away from it.
A better run game should help this year, but clutch plays happen more through the air.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:38 am

Zorn76 wrote:The OL only has to be decent for this offense to do much better.
Until then - and especially on the road - Bevell needs to get back to mixing in a short passing game to help offset the growing pains that'll come.
We did a nice job of this to close out the 2015 season, then got away from it.
A better run game should help this year, but clutch plays happen more through the air.


Yah, a more creative Offense, even if only by a little helps keep opposing Defenses off balance.
When all they have to do is stop the run knowing the OL can't pass protect, the Defenses have a huge advantage.
Changing things up makes them have to adjust and maybe make mistakes.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:19 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The OL only has to be decent for this offense to do much better.
Until then - and especially on the road - Bevell needs to get back to mixing in a short passing game to help offset the growing pains that'll come.
We did a nice job of this to close out the 2015 season, then got away from it.
A better run game should help this year, but clutch plays happen more through the air.


Yah, a more creative Offense, even if only by a little helps keep opposing Defenses off balance.
When all they have to do is stop the run knowing the OL can't pass protect, the Defenses have a huge advantage.
Changing things up makes them have to adjust and maybe make mistakes.


The big difference between last season and 2015 was Russell's health. They no longer had to respect his ability to run, which further compromised the playbook.

No such excuse this season, or so we hope.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:28 pm

This line is going to be way better than the last 2 years. It's pretty simple. Glowinski moves to his college spot after a year of experience, and the same for Ifedi. I don't give a RIP if they didn't "put their hand on the ground" in college. So what?

A years worth of experience is HUGE in this league. Same can be said for Fant.

We added Pocic which is a valuable piece all along the line. Joekel is one I wouldn't even consider in this conversation based on his injuries, but the FO gave this guy 7 million dollars.

Maybe they know a lot more than we do.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:00 am

Largent80 wrote:I don't give a RIP if they didn't "put their hand on the ground" in college. So what?


Big difference. For one, your weight is distributed entirely differently, and it takes more quickness to get back into a pass blocking position when the ball is snapped and more difficult to get into the path of an edge rush. Additionally, your pre-snap reads are much more difficult from a 3 point stance. Your head is lower and you can't scan from right to left as easily, especially when your peripheral vision is restricted by wearing a helmet. Lastly, it's a lot harder to stay frozen in a 3 point stance. Your body is not in a natural position as it is in a 2 point stance.

Offensive line coaches have complained for the past decade or so about the tendency of colleges to station their OT's in 2 point stances all the time, so it's not something to be scoffed at.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:04 am

They had a year of "hand on the ground" already. To me it's a moot point.

Pocic is going to give the entire line competition, and he could end up starting in a spot somewhere.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:56 am

Largent80 wrote:They had a year of "hand on the ground" already. To me it's a moot point.

Pocic is going to give the entire line competition, and he could end up starting in a spot somewhere.


Ifedi played guard last year. Guards don't have to worry about getting outside to defend the edge rush, and they're closer to the center so it's easier to hear the line calls. His communication with the quarterback will be more difficult as he won't be able to turn around and face the quarterback like he did in college.

Trust me, going from a 2 point stance to a 3 point is a big deal. It's going to be one of the biggest challenges of his position change that Ifedi is going to have to master.

Agreed about Pocic. He'll see playing time somewhere.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:15 am

It's not just the hand in the ground, it's the poor coaching at the College level for OL play according to many coaches across the league including Cable.
He may have to unlearn bad habits or techniques from College and learn new correct ones as well as adjust to the speed and power of the outside rushers at this level.
What he does have going for him is he will be comfortable with the rhythm and goings on in the NFL and TC as well as coaches expectations and there's a lot to be said for that.
But he's still going to be a rookie at RT this year so expect some struggles early.
Glowinski should have it a bit easier as it is mostly mirroring what he did last year with technique and assignments. He may play far better at RG than LG, but we'll see when they play.
Fant should be a lot better simply because he's had a year of play and a few months of study to understand his role and perfect his techniques. Working with Big Walt can only help with
his development.

There's more talent on this line than the last 2 years, but I'll wait to pass judgement until after they've played a few games to see if they can play as a group.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:41 am

Evidently, Joekel got into a fight with Frank Clark. I love it and it shows his injuries may be behind him.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:47 am

Cool.
As long as there are no injuries from it, it shows passion for the game and that he's putting real emphasis on playing Guard (I'm assuming he's playing Guard).
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:28 am

According to Pete, George Fant showed up to camp in the best condition of all the players.

That isn't a guarantee of anything, but it is news that at least gives hope for improvement. It means he's been working hard at it, and he is a good athlete.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:14 am

At least we're interesting: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/02/seatt ... peter-king

The Seahawks are a fascinating chemistry experiment. Right now, they’re my most interesting team to watch of 2017.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:25 am

Largent80 wrote:According to Pete, George Fant showed up to camp in the best condition of all the players.

That isn't a guarantee of anything, but it is news that at least gives hope for improvement. It means he's been working hard at it, and he is a good athlete.


I saw Fant (TC on Q13 on Sunday) wandering around with the players while the camera was slowly panning the field and he looked like he wasn't at all fat even though he's gained more than 20 lbs.
It struck me how big yet lean he looked. I hope it wasn't just the camera angle.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:52 am

c_hawkbob wrote:At least we're interesting: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/02/seatt ... peter-king

The Seahawks are a fascinating chemistry experiment. Right now, they’re my most interesting team to watch of 2017.


I like to see that competitive tempers are flaring, but I liked even more that vets make the youngters toe the line. Baldwin getting on to the rookie RB for excessive celebration after a TD in practice is exactly what should be done. I've seen some of you guys say it, and I agree; "act like you've been there before".

About the o-line, I'm much more pessimistic after seeing the last few seasons' Cable quotes of touting the expected improved play, but, compared to last year, they didn't bring in anybody like Sowell or Webb, and Gilliam is not an option anymore either. That might not be saying much, but I'll take Fant, Ohdiambo, Aboushi, and Joeckel over those guys in a heart beat. Fingers crossed they pan out and bring back the level of play of the two Superbowl years.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:56 am

I don't need Cable to tell me to expect improvement as I played football all the way through my senior year in college. It's simply going to happen via experience and competition. We have a LOT more viable competition this year and maybe the line won't be what everyone wants, but I'm saying it will be serviceable which is what Bevell's offense needs. Plus our 3 rookies played a whole year. It's just going to be better.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:45 am

After this part of TC so far, my expectations for this line have been lowered back down to earth. Ifedi has looked like poo (and must be angry at his own performance enough to get punched by Clark)....by all other reports I've heard or read. Glowinski has made ZERO progress from last year. Odhimabo? the reports seem to be slightly better.

Ifedi was to supposedly man RT, he can't even get into practices to TRY. We are left with Aboushi who is a Houston castoff, and the rookie Pocic (who will probably outplay all of them). Reports on Joekel are MEH.

At this point I want Pocic at RT.

Blech Seahawks....Blech.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:27 am

Ifedi must be injured.
They would have at least put him on the 2nd or 3rd team if he wasn't playing well, but I share your disappointment.
Even though I was girding for the worst I was hoping for the best so it's bothersome to say the least.
Let's hope he and the others take a big step up in the next 3 weeks or so.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:46 am

This is my best guess as to the starting 5 on opening day: LT - Fant, RG - Luke, C - Britt, RG - Aboushi, RT - Pocic.

I have heard glowing things about Aboushi and Pocic from Ray Roberts and Brock Huard. Who knows... Ifedi seems to have regressed.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:This is my best guess as to the starting 5 on opening day: LT - Fant, RG - Luke, C - Britt, RG - Aboushi, RT - Pocic.

I have heard glowing things about Aboushi and Pocic from Ray Roberts and Brock Huard. Who knows... Ifedi seems to have regressed.


Sometimes players work better together than others regardless of talent level. Perhaps Aboushi and Pocic just work better than Ifedi and Aboushi but maybe Glowinski and Ifedi could be great.
It's difficult to really know and with Ifedi only having around 3 practices so far, it's pretty early to write him off outside of injury.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:43 pm

We're not the only ones scratching our heads......http://sports.mynorthwest.com/320477/on ... shuffling/
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:51 pm

Largent80 wrote:We're not the only ones scratching our heads......http://sports.mynorthwest.com/320477/on ... shuffling/


It's kind of like we have been wondering about the last couple of years.
Getting players settled in one position and learning it well is most important for a young player who according to Cable and other Coaches around the league aren't coached in the fundamentals of line play at the College level.
Why confuse the kids already on a steep learning curve?
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:15 pm

So while the fight happened four days ago, you could say the Seahawks were still recovering. Offensive line coach Tom Cable was asked about Ifedi’s status after Sunday’s practice.

“Getting him back,” Cable said, “working on it. Getting him back.”

Cable was not any more specific when asked about whether the issue was injury or a matter of team discipline.

“We’re handling that with our people here,” Cable said, “and letting our medical people and the coach decide what to do.”

Ifedi’s absence has translated into an opportunity for rookie Ethan Pocic, who has been practicing with the first-unit line. Pocic was primarily a center at LSU, but also started at guard and tackle during college.

“Probably grow a little bit faster than he may have because of the opportunity,” Cable said. “Fortunately – as you guys know – when we drafted him, he has all that experience playing many different positions, so it’s not like a fish out of water.”

Note

• Luke Joeckel, who was signed as a free agent in the offseason, was splitting time between left guard and left tackle for most of the first week of training camp. He spent Saturday and Sunday almost exclusively at guard, which Cable said is more the result of an injury to tackle Robert Myers than a formal decision on where Joeckel will play.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/320130/fr ... -seahawks/
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:27 pm

GREAT! :x :|
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:51 am

From another board....

"I was at camp yesterday. All of the RBs looked bad/really average coming out of the backfield to me. The o-line was getting worked though. Two safeties in backed up situations, penalties (quite a few false starts), and lots of sacks given up."
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:21 am

They're still sifting through the process of finding out who's going to play where, a process that's bound to be delayed somewhat due to Ifedi's non participation.

Luke Joeckel, who was signed as a free agent in the offseason, was splitting time between left guard and left tackle for most of the first week of training camp. He spent Saturday and Sunday almost exclusively at guard, which Cable said is more the result of an injury to tackle Robert Myers than a formal decision on where Joeckel will play.

I'm worried that this line will not have time to develop much of a chemistry before they're thrown into the fire.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:41 am

The "fire" starts in 5 days. It is pre season, however this happening was my worst scenario for this years line. And that is, by the 2nd week of camp, have a very good idea of what the line will look like before the first PS game.

That is not happening. It doesn't mean it won't come together, but this is the last thing I wanted to see/hear.

Since Clark punched Ifedi, both have missed all practices and scrimmages since. GREAT, thanks Clark. Hope you are happy dude, you pulled the pussy way and sucker punched someone, that someone on YOUR team.

SMH.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Hawk Sista » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:39 am

We have heard from DC Kris Richard that the reason they are not playing/practicing is - at least in part, disciplinary. That, in a way, is good. I hate it that Ifedi and Clark are missing valuable time, but this is as stern a message from PC as I've seen. Clark (and to some extent, Ifedi) have hurt not only themselves but the team...and their families, possibly their earning potential and last but not least, each of us.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:52 am

Hawk Sista wrote:We have heard from DC Kris Richard that the reason they are not playing/practicing is - at least in part, disciplinary. That, in a way, is good. I hate it that Ifedi and Clark are missing valuable time, but this is as stern a message from PC as I've seen. Clark (and to some extent, Ifedi) have hurt not only themselves but the team...and their families, possibly their earning potential and last but not least, each of us.


I haven't heard that, but it makes sense, and if it's true, I agree with you that, although it's closing the gate after the horses got out, it's nice to see that Pete is finally laying down the law regarding this type of behavior.

One of my biggest gripes about Pete going all the way back to his college days is that he isn't a strong enough disciplinarian. There's a fine balance between being a "player's coach" and letting the inmates run the asylum, and I think that at least in terms of his perception, that Pete tends to edge a little too close to the "player's coach" side of that equation.

I'm glad that Pete is apparently handing down the discipline even handedly. Even though the tone in this thread is that the majority of the blame falls on Clark, it takes two to tango. Who knows, the two of them might have been going at each other for some time before punches were thrown.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:59 am

I'm sorry but throwing blind sucker punches isn't confronting the person pissing you off. It's a cowards way of getting the upper hand.

I like Clark the player, but as a human, and team mate, not so much.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:01 am

If it is discipline that's keeping Ifedi out of practice, it's only going to hurt the team at this point.
The rest of that practice and the following practice would have sufficed, but 5 consecutive practices is too much. You can't learn a new position and build continuity standing on the sidelines.
Therefor I think Ifedi was injured - maybe concussed and is now missing time.
Clark injured his knee in that practice, but I don't know if it was during the fracas.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:45 pm

Maybe some of the pass protection deficiencies can be helped by good RB pass blocking.

Perhaps there is hope with Carson.
From Sheil Kapadia:
' “Blitz pickup is something that rookies typically struggle with. But that was not the case with Carson.

During one drill early in practice, he got matched up with veteran linebacker Michael Wilhoite on multiple occasions and stoned him.” '
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Largent80 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:50 am

Is Germain Ifedi falling out of favor?

You’re starting to get that the sense the team is less than thrilled with him. Ooooh, that sounds almost mystical, doesn’t it? You’re starting to get the sense … Well, that’s how a reporter indicates that a team appears increasingly skeptical of a player’s trajectory even though no one is coming right out and directly saying so in a public interview. Not that it’s easy to have someone who coaches or manages this team say something honestly critical of any player. Everyone follows Carroll’s cues in their unrelenting optimism and positivity, which may be great for getting the most out of players, but is absolutely terrible for signaling which one of those players may not be meeting expectations. But Ifedi has been largely absent from the lists of players being praised for their development and growth. He’s switching positions from right guard to right tackle, which isn’t a sign of success. And then attempts to ask specifically – and discreetly – about Ifedi have been met with raised eyebrows or shrugs, which prompts a reporter to use weasel words like I did and say you’re starting to sense that he’s not developing like you’d hope a first-round pick would. In other words, when asked about Ifedi’s progress at right tackle, no one is going out of their way to declare how great things are going, which constitutes criticism in the rose-tinted world of Carroll-inspired optimism. Now that Ifedi’s back from the injury suffered in the training-camp fight with Frank Clark, keep an eye on the competition at right tackle with rookie Ethan Pocic.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/320875/wh ... -of-favor/
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby Hawk Sista » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:41 am

In my prediction of the starting line come week one of the regular season, I've penciled Pocic as the starter. I haven't read much or seen much to back me off of that yet. So, yes...it would seem that Ifedi has fallen out of favor.
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Re: Good Article About Offensive Line

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:55 am

It's interesting (and frustrating for some of us) that Pete gets guys for the DL and puts them in positions to learn and excel then keeps them there but on the OL which takes much more coordination amongst the group he allows players to never really learn a position fully before giving up on them. Carpenter had enough time to show he wasn't a Tackle, but just as he was coming into his own as a Guard, they didn't match the offer, Britt had one year at Tackle, another at Guard, and finally settled at Center where it looks like they might let him go as it's the last year of his contract an apparently no talks. Now we see Ifedi playing 1 year at Guard, then moved to Tackle and if the impressions of the author are correct, given up on.
It's said we run a complex blocking scheme - a hybrid ZBS and we had rookies learning 2 positions in TC last year. It's madness to think they can be competent at both position in just 1 or 2 years.
If they are going to do the shuffle thing on the OL, make the blocking schemes as basic as possible. That way you can really see who is best suited for what position and who can make it in the NFL and let them develop.
The other option short of only drafting OL that are nuclear physics majors is to sign FA Offensive Linemen who you know can play at this level.
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