While I'm at it, I also am so very weary of God Bless America at nearly every single ball stadium in the 7th.
burrrton wrote:Here's kinda where I come down on the issue- your personal grievances don't override what this country, and the people who fought for it, has/have done for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qz58jMhDDA
c_hawkbob wrote:Nice post Oly.
It's like protesting against the library because they have a book you don't like....one book out of millions.
Keep in mind the sacrifices they and others have made for well over a hundred years are not to protect those who think alike, rather for those that think differently and possibly make others uncomfortable.
I am genuinely curious to hear what kinds of effective protest the critics in here would be okay with.
what would have happened if armed black men marched in Virginia carrying torches?
Oly wrote:I know my opinion is unpopular here, but I said I didn't mind Kaepernick's decision to sit--note, not that I "support" it, it just doesn't bother me--and I'll say the same about Bennett or anyone else. I don't think anyone here has disputed the fact that minorities are getting screwed in this country, at least far more than whites. The question is what counts as acceptable protest. I understand the criticism many in here have said that sitting for the anthem is indiscriminate and disrespects veterans and others who aren't part of the problem. I get that. But here is the rub, for me:
What counts as "acceptable" protest? and, Who are we to judge?
On the first question, I am not being hyperbolic when I say I have never seen a conservative white person look at black people protesting and say that they approve. Never. When the protests are loud and disruptive, white people say they need to be quiet. But now that they are being quiet and non-disruptive (sitting down in a place that doesn't impede the public is the epitome of quiet and non-disruptive), they're catching flak. I am genuinely curious to hear what kinds of effective protest the critics in here would be okay with. I highlight "effective" because it seems to me that protests must be effective to be useful, that they can't be effective without doing something to call attention to themselves, and that calling attention will always involve being controversial because we don't pay attention otherwise. So, what kind of public, controversial action would pass scrutiny here?
But perhaps more importantly, who are we to judge? And in the "we" I'm talking about other white people. Black people have been and are being sh*t on by our government (read up on red-lining and the Alabama criminal justice system for good, recent examples). They are getting killed by law enforcement more often and for less than white people (what would have happened if armed black men marched in Virginia carrying torches?). That's what they have to deal with, and we're complaining about being temporarily burst from our pure entertainment bubble when watching a sporting event? I have many veterans in my family and think we live in one of the best countries in the world, but we're not perfect. And I don't mind being reminded of the work we have to do. So as one of the most privileged people in the world--an educated, middle-class American white man is about as cushy as it comes in the world--I'm not going to whine when I see Bennett calmly pointing out that the color of his skin means that he faces challenges I'll never have to face. I just don't see that I have the right to micromanage how they express the fact that they suffer in ways I can't even fathom.
Edit: I'm not inclined to get into an argument here. I don't think I'll change a single opinion here, and no one will change mine. That's just the nature of our politically polarized society and the fact that political discussions on the internet never, ever, ever do a damn thing to change anyone's opinions. I just wanted to put out the other side of the debate, but I won't be getting into any kind of argument on this thread. Perhaps in person over a beer, but not on an online forum.
frankly as a conservative I think their organizations should be against the law and they should be prosecuted for hate crimes for assembling.
That's *not* a conservative POV.
So it may not be a Conservative PoV, it's become part of the Conservative landscape.
We saw some immediate backlash from the Republican leadership and others which shows the rot hasn't reached very far, but it's still a concern for those on the right that it must be addressed and excised.
burrrton wrote:Three words: Doug. Fcking. Baldwin.
I think a certain level of his outrage might be misplaced, but reasonable people can disagree on that, and talking to police, and LISTENING to police, and measured responses are how intelligent people affect change.
If you think giving the USA itself a big FU is a constructive way to do that, let me save you the suspense: it isn't. It makes you look like a dope that can't focus.
burrrton wrote:If this is a serious question, I'd love to hear where you've been throughout the "Black Lives Matter" protests
Hawktawk wrote:Well not an argument but a rejoinder. Not in the workplace, especially as a pro athlete. As I say maybe you don't mind Kap (I guess that includes the Castro love and pig socks too?) but probably 70% of fans disapprove even if they support BLM or whatever. Kaps situation shows how opposed to this behavior fans of every ethnicity are as GMs are fearful of bringing in the distraction.
Hawktawk wrote:One more thing. Don't paint all conservatives with the same brush. It was a white woman killed in Charlottesville. As a conservative I totally support the right of any person to protest injustice, just not in the workplace and not looting or shooting cops.
As for Aryan nations, Nazis white supremacists etc. frankly as a conservative I think their organizations should be against the law and they should be prosecuted for hate crimes for assembling. They disgusted me back when I was a twenty something hick redneck and I think I'm far from alone as a conservative. I was confronted on the street by a north Idaho hate preacher decades ago with his white shirt, red tie and black slacks and message of racism. I took about 30 seconds to tell him to shut his yap and leave before I smashed his face.
Don't lump me with trump. My vote for Gary Johnson was a proud moment for me. We gotta change something even if it takes time.
burrrton wrote:
If this is a serious question, I'd love to hear where you've been throughout the "Black Lives Matter" protests.
https://www.google.com/search?q=black+l ... tter+riots
But getting back to the question: is there a form of protest that you're okay with?
Regardless, though, it seems pretty clear to me that when mobs of black people go parading through the streets with torches and weapons they incur stronger retaliation than when white people do it, and that's my only point.
...no matter how many times someone links a sappy speech from a straight white guy...
As a fiscal conservative that has at times because of the combination of my skin color and political POV been painted by others as something I am not, I would love a means in which to prove to everyone that I am a fair and open minded individual that is as different from the KKK as night is from day.
burrrton wrote:Yes: appropriately directed.
burrrton wrote:That's where I think you go off the rails: there was virtually *no* retaliation. They were jumping up and down on cop cars, for Pete's sake.
If one of those racist shtstains in Charlottesville had done that, you think they'd have been allowed with impunity? No freaking way- they'd have probably gotten shot, and rightfully.
I still haven't seen a conservative outline what acceptable protest looks like.
You think officers react more to car-jumping than displaying firearms in an emotionally charged march?
If you think that law enforcement reacts the same when white vs. black people open carry
burrrton wrote:You're comparing carrying a firearm (which they were presumably doing *legally*) to destroying public property??
I have a suggestion, Oly- get your permit, then try it yourself. Walk by cops with your legal firearm prominently displayed, then take a baseball bat to their cruiser's windshield.
Let everyone know how it goes.
burrrton wrote:When you think "carrying a firearm" is a significantly more egregious or provocative act than smashing a cop car?
No question about it IMO.
[/quote]burrrton wrote:Me: "If you think that law enforcement reacts the same when white vs. black people open carry"
You: "Stop arguing with the voices in your head. I didn't say that, and I agree it's something to lament. I just disagree with the sentiment that it's 100% due to racist cops."
burrrton wrote:That you feel you need to prove you're not in the KKK simply because of your skin color and politics (and, judging by recent responses, presumably now your sexuality and gender) is what's wrong with this country.
The people who make you feel that way should feel ashamed of themselves.
I'm white, so you're right it will be fine.
I don't think you're engaging my posts in good faith
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