Nice start 10/29/17

[idhawkman]

Some more post game comments:

One aspect of yesterday's game that's getting a lot of attention is the Texan's play call on 3rd and 4 on their last series with under 2 minutes left and protecting a 4 point lead. I thought it a little unusual as I expected them to throw the ball short in an attempt to pick up the first down. It's getting a lot of criticism this morning on the talk shows.

I think they did what they needed to. If they throw and it is incomplete or intercepted (as you note below there were 3 of them already) then they are in a bad spot. With their punter kicking the ball through the roof with hang time and 60+ yards, odds were that we wouldn't have made that comeback. They played the odds and this time it went the other way.

As many accolades as Watson is getting, much of it well deserved, people are overlooking the fact that he threw 3 interceptions, all of them on him. Russell threw just one.

What was more impressive is I don't think thye had a single false start. With the week they had and the distractions to come in here with a first time QB to the Clink, that was impressive.

Houston was without two of their top pass rushers, JJ Watt and Whitney Merciless (sp). That has to be kept in mind when handing out praises to our OL for their uncharacteristically good pass protection.

Noted. I would "HOPE" they could do as good but I'm sure they would have gotten through to RW if they were there. I don't think they would have negatively impacted our rushing game though.

There was a defensive pass interference call on us where the flag was thrown a good 20 yards away from where the play ended up and the pass IMO uncatchable. I could understand a holding or illegal contact call, but doesn't the ball have to be in the air in order for it to be PI? Anyone else know what play I am speaking of?

I think they actually picked that flag up didn't they?

As far as the ball being in the air, didn't you know that their QB can throw a ball so slow that it actually was in the air when the contact occured? /sarcasm.

[burrrton]

As many accolades as Watson is getting, much of it well deserved, people are overlooking the fact that he threw 3 interceptions, all of them on him.

I thought the same thing- he threw for a lot of yards, but getting picked off three times is a sign you're still figuring out the game. Plus, we all know if he'd have thrown an incompletion (or worse, a pick), they'd be criticizing the coach for stopping the clock for us, and/or for putting the rookie under too much pressure having to throw, or whatever.

Talking heads gotta talking head.

[idhawkman]

Talking heads gotta talking head.

I love Denzel Washington's quote in the "enforcer" when he said, "the man has to be the man, fish has got to be the fish..."

He was explaining Moby Dick to the young hooker in the diner.

[Clem7]

Well, can't rush, offensive line is what it is, defense gets torched. Yet Hawks are 5 and 2.
What will the Hawks do when they iron out the kinks???? And they will.

[c_hawkbob]

Talking heads gotta talking head.

I love Denzel Washington's quote in the "enforcer" when he said, "the man has to be the man, fish has got to be the fish..."

He was explaining Moby Dick to the young hooker in the diner.

Actually he was explaining The Old Man and The Sea, but I agree, killer quote.

[idhawkman]

Actually he was explaining The Old Man and The Sea, but I agree, killer quote.

Thanks Bob. I think I also got the name of the movie wrong. I believe it is the Equalizer and not the Enforcer. LOL

[RiverDog]

I think they did what they needed to. If they throw and it is incomplete or intercepted (as you note below there were 3 of them already) then they are in a bad spot. With their punter kicking the ball through the roof with hang time and 60+ yards, odds were that we wouldn't have made that comeback. They played the odds and this time it went the other way.

IMO stopping the clock with an incomplete pass was a secondary consideration, as well as the fear of throwing a pick. Their thought process should have been what play, pass or run, is most likely to gain 4 yards. They get a first down in that situation and the game's over. When you're on the road in a long, excruciating game where you're having huge problems on defense and you see an opportunity to end it with one piddly ass 4 yard gain, you have to jump on it.

I can't believe that they thought that play was their best chance at gaining 4 yards. The coaches folded under pressure.

[idhawkman]

IMO stopping the clock with an incomplete pass was a secondary consideration, as well as the fear of throwing a pick. Their thought process should have been what play, pass or run, is most likely to gain 4 yards. They get a first down in that situation and the game's over. When you're on the road in a long, excruciating game where you're having huge problems on defense and you see an opportunity to end it with one piddly ass 4 yard gain, you have to jump on it.

I can't believe that they thought that play was their best chance at gaining 4 yards. The coaches folded under pressure.

Remember that they got 4 or more yards on that play many times throughout the game. So maybe they saw that as the best and safest chance to do what you say.

[Clem7]

I knew we stopped them when they handed off to the back. Use one of their design QB run plays with Watson, I believe they would have had a first down and game over.

[RiverDog]

Remember that they got 4 or more yards on that play many times throughout the game. So maybe they saw that as the best and safest chance to do what you say.

They got 4 or more yards many times on that play? Lamar Miller, the ball carrier on that play, had 54 yards on 21 carries, or a 2.6 ypc, so I have a hard time believing calling a vanilla running play up the middle featuring Miller carrying the ball for the 3rd straight time was their best 4 yard play.

[burrrton]

There's a difference between average and median- he had only 19 completions with two picks at that point- he wasn't 62/65 and showing complete mastery of the game.

Again, it wasn't that bizarre a choice- only TV chuckleheads pretend it was to drive clicks.

[RiverDog]

There's a difference between average and median- he had only 19 completions with two picks at that point- he wasn't 62/65 and showing complete mastery of the game.

Again, it wasn't that bizarre a choice- only TV chuckleheads pretend it was to drive clicks.

You could also make the same median vs. average comparison on Miller's YPC average. Toss out his 13 yard longest run and his 1 yard shortest run and his YPC looks even worse than the 2.6 he finished with.

I never said it was a bizarre choice. Those are your words, not mine. You're trying to dramatize my argument. The fact is that most if not all NFL teams consider 3rd and 4 a passing down, and the fact that they chose a very low risk, very low reward type of running play three straight times leads me to believe that they were more concerned with running the clock out and playing not to win rather than going out and trying to lock down a victory on the road with one play. The final result, ie us scoring with time for at least two more plays to spare even though we were without timeouts is some pretty convincing evidence that their play call on that last 3rd down play was very questionable.

[idhawkman]

They got 4 or more yards many times on that play? Lamar Miller, the ball carrier on that play, had 54 yards on 21 carries, or a 2.6 ypc, so I have a hard time believing calling a vanilla running play up the middle featuring Miller carrying the ball for the 3rd straight time was their best 4 yard play.

Don't twist my words River. It was the best 4 yard play with all the options and outcomes in the game's situation.

[burrrton]

I never said it was a bizarre choice. Those are your words, not mine. You're trying to dramatize my argument.

Chill, RD. I'm more addressing the TV goofs- they're the ones that are characterizing that choice as HOU's coach gifting us the win. I know you're not, and I acknowledge a passing play (or designed run, or whatever) would have been a defensible choice there, too (although, as I said, they'd be saying the same things if that had failed, too).

[NorthHawk]

Their coach said he would do it differently if he was to do it over again and that he was too conservative at the end, so even he thinks it wasn't the best thing in hindsight.

“It’s my fault.” O’Brien said, via CBS Houston. “I made some bad play calls today, and I just have to do a better job on game day. … We have to attack. If you enter a game and you dip your toe in the water, you’re probably not going to win that game anyway. So you might as well go in there and attack. And that’s what we do. That’s my philosophy. And that’s the players’ philosophy. Just didn’t do it enough today.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... lay-calls/

[burrrton]

Their coach said he would do it differently if he was to do it over again and that he was too conservative at the end, so even he thinks it wasn't the best thing in hindsight.

Hindsight is 20/20. Film at 11.

I'm not saying it was or wasn't the right decision- I just maintain it was defensible considering the circumstances, and that he'd be taking the same flak no matter what he called.

[Largent80]

Right..38 points vs Seattles defense isn't attacking?

attacked enough to throw 3 picks. Dude is whack.

[idhawkman]

I think he is only taking flak because it didn't work. Had that play worked or a pass play worked, he'd be dancing still. If either failed (as it did) then he gets flak. Welcome to the NFL, right?

[RiverDog]

Don't twist my words River. It was the best 4 yard play with all the options and outcomes in the game's situation.

I don't understand what your complaint is, and will sincerely apologize if I knew how you felt that you were misquoted. Here is a copy and paste of the remarks of yours that drew my attention:

Remember that they got 4 or more yards on that play many times throughout the game.

Which of those words did I twist? I simply stated that your statement wasn't supported by fact. Miller had a 2.6 ypc for the game, and given that his long was 13 yards, he got less than 4 yards more times than he ran for more than 4.

I just disagree with you that it was the best play given the game situation. There are relatively safe short pass routes that all teams have in their playbooks, and if they aren't open or the protection breaks down, he doesn't even have to throw it away, he just eats it and takes the sack, forcing us to call a timeout and only giving up 5-8 yards.

[RiverDog]

I'm not saying it was or wasn't the right decision- I just maintain it was defensible considering the circumstances, and that he'd be taking the same flak no matter what he called.

If they passed on 1st or 2nd and threw an incompletion(s), then absolutely he would have taken a lot of flak. But I don't think the criticism would have been nearly as intense as it is now had he thrown an incompletion on a 3rd and 4.

There are scores of decisions that can be contested by us Monday morning quarterbacks. But on this one, there's a lot of Texans fans out there with a legitimate gripe. They were playing not to lose vs. playing to win.

[idhawkman]

I don't understand what your complaint is, and will sincerely apologize if I knew how you felt that you were misquoted. Here is a copy and paste of the remarks of yours that drew my attention:

Remember that they got 4 or more yards on that play many times throughout the game.

Which of those words did I twist? I simply stated that your statement wasn't supported by fact. Miller had a 2.6 ypc for the game, and given that his long was 13 yards, he got less than 4 yards more times than he ran for more than 4.

I just disagree with you that it was the best play given the game situation. There are relatively safe short pass routes that all teams have in their playbooks, and if they aren't open or the protection breaks down, he doesn't even have to throw it away, he just eats it and takes the sack, forcing us to call a timeout and only giving up 5-8 yards.

No worries. I might have been a bit sensitive on your reply in that you called it the "best 4 yard play" when I said they had gotten 4 yards or more many times. I wasn't saying it was the best 4 yard play they had but that it had worked many times and given the downsides it was a good option for them. The problem, I still believe, is that it didn't work. If it had, they would be praising that coach today. On a separate note, that is a shame that he will be judged by that one play when he called a damn good game against our D in our house with that rookie QB. But that is the NFL in a nutshell.

[RiverDog]

No worries. I might have been a bit sensitive on your reply in that you called it the "best 4 yard play" when I said they had gotten 4 yards or more many times. I wasn't saying it was the best 4 yard play they had but that it had worked many times and given the downsides it was a good option for them. The problem, I still believe, is that it didn't work. If it had, they would be praising that coach today. On a separate note, that is a shame that he will be judged by that one play when he called a damn good game against our D in our house with that rookie QB. But that is the NFL in a nutshell.

Ahh, I see. I thought that we had agreed that they should be calling their best 4 yard play. No sweat.

Just listening to the post game comments from the talking heads, I don't get the impression that they were judging the entire game by that one play call, at least not when you compared it to other controversial play calls, like when Belicheck went for it on 4th down in his own territory vs. Manning and the Colts a few years back. It was a very questionable play call, one that I happened to disagree with pretty strongly.

[burrrton]

But on this one, there's a lot of Texans fans out there with a legitimate gripe.

It's no more legitimate a gripe than griping about why they didn't force us to use our last timeout had it ended up being germane.

[RiverDog]

It's no more legitimate a gripe than griping about why they didn't force us to use our last timeout had it ended up being germane.

I disagree.

[burrrton]

So let's say they throw an incompletion, and we end up needing our last timeout to stop the clock before throwing the game-winner- you think everyone would be saying "Well, stopping the clock for them *was* the smart play there"??

Nonsense. They're upset they lost, so would be pointing to whatever play failed to convert and picking it apart, just like they are now.