Sex assault tsunami

[Hawktawk]

Prior to the Clinton administration this topic wasn't really on anyone's mind as I recall. Sure the womanizing and sexual misconduct had gone on forever but the media wasn't nearly as developed or intrusive and much of the private life of politicians was left untouched.
But Bill broke the mold, accused of adultery as well as rape and getting caught red handed doing an intern in the oval office. Sill we see what happened, 2 terms and considered a party icon until this day. What changed? Political parties and their ever more ideologically polarized base shouted down victims of Clinton's, circled the wagons, enlisted their friends in the mainstream media to push their angle of the story and attack their accusers...The playbook was written.

Fast forward to 2016 and what happened with Trump and 14 women who had very plausible stories to tell that backed up pretty much to a tee what he admitted to on tape.
Still....Many many republicans refused to believe the accusations including many members of my own family. The media was involved too, except its the *news* organization that was always seeking the destruction of the Democrats.
Fox is now at least as big an apologist for Trump than NBC or CNN ever was for Clinton.
Same playbook as Clinton though, just preaching to an even more rabid Pro Trump base.

Now Hollywood is literally popping open its dark underbelly to reveal decades of filth and abuse on a mind numbing scale involving more names than I can begin to remember.

But now here comes Roy Moore, the golden bee bee, the hand painted raindrop. This is a guy who almost certainly has raped a couple of girls and has been accused by 5 separate women(so far) and its been an urban legend for 40 years, booted out of malls in his 30s for harassing teen girls repeatedly etc and hes in line to become next to Trump one of the hundred most powerful men on the planet. I watched the 5th accusers statement and that's when I decided to write this and unburden my heart.
Because there are still millions of people who believe Judge Moore, or at a minimum they will suspend their belief to vote for a pistol packing bible thumping holier than thou Gay basher.Sean Hannity did all he could to bail Moore out and he kept digging the hole deeper.But people are taking to social media etc to ravage a woman who told a story of being groomed and then raped at age 15/16 with tears streaming down her face.

The RNC is trying to play both sides, telling Moore to withdraw but still running 11 operatives on the ground in Georgia.

I honestly don't know what in the hell has happened to my country, my party. In 2010 among white evangelicals only 30% would vote for a candidate who had done immoral things. Now the number in actual polling is 72%!!!!Trump effect.
But this isn't about trump per se. This is about us, what we as americans are willing to put up with if it suits our agenda, electing people to high office over the broken lives of their victims..

[idhawkman]

The downfall of every great nation has started with Moral Decay. That's been happening in the U.S. ever since the sixties. Not hard to figure out what happened. Maybe Hillary will write a sequel...

[Hawktawk]

I completely agree on this one Id. But its one of the main reasons I as a conservative rock solid Republican of 58 years just couldn't pull the trigger on election day for the party's nominee. It long ago ceased to be about ideology for me. Im disgusted with everyone....

[c_hawkbob]

Supporting "grab 'em by the p*****s" Trump and decrying moral decay is rich ...

[Hawktawk]

Supporting "grab 'em by the p*****s" Trump and decrying moral decay is rich ...

Yeah Bob that crossed my mind. I’ll be interested to see ol PG himself comment based on his own past. Of course Clinton did it amazingly well. It’s the first time I ever heard the word triangulate. It’s cool
To the base whatever as long as he’s our guy and he can deliver. Sad place we’re in.

[idhawkman]

Supporting "grab 'em by the p*****s" Trump and decrying moral decay is rich ...

The alternative is more immoral. Its the lesser of two evils. I would love to have the white knight that has no glass in his house CBob, but I haven't met that guy every in my life. If his statement is the worst he's done, then I can live with that. I'm not a bad person, but I've heard much worse from "friends" of mine that have no malice toward women. Just a young bragadocious moment I over heard.

[idhawkman]

Just a thought to remember.

I once had a girlfriend who commented once that, "everybody has their own religion." When I pressed her on what she meant, she said, "well no one believes everything that their religion espouses, but they align with the religion that beleives most of the same things they believe."

It took me a while to come to grips with this. I would now mention that this statement is more true among political parties in that there are only two main political parties and I'm pretty sure the 60+ million who voted for Trump or Hillary believe everything the platform stood for. Those 60+ MILLION people made choices as to who more closely aligned with what they wanted, believed or needed.

[RiverDog]

Prior to the Clinton administration this topic wasn't really on anyone's mind as I recall. Sure the womanizing and sexual misconduct had gone on forever but the media wasn't nearly as developed or intrusive and much of the private life of politicians was left untouched.

It was a hot topic well before Slick Willy. Remember former POTUS candidate Gary Hart? How about Senator Bob Packwood? Or what about Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas? Those guys were all pre-Clinton.

The media really doesn't take sides when it comes to a juicy sex scandal. It's a guaranteed story seller because it's a topic that everyone can understand and that everyone has an opinion on. Bill Clinton enjoyed a very biased White House press corps on other subjects but when it came to his sex scandal, they went after him like a pack of jackals. Sensationalism trumps politics.

And it's not limited to politics, either. My former boss was fired for a "breach of our code of conduct", a supervisor was fired for retrieving another employee's phone number from confidential HR files so he could ask her out on a date, and we even recently fired a female employee for inappropriate behavior.

I really don't see the moral decay that others are noting. This stuff has been going on since Adam and Eve, it's just that we hear about it nowadays than we ever used to.

[Seahawks4Ever]

IDH; So, voting for the democrat in Alabama is "immoral" so you can live with Moore?? You are one SICK individual. Oh, you mean you can live with Traitor "grab 'em by their vagina: Trump because voting for anybody else would be immoral??? "Cause there WERE other people on the ballot OTHER than HRC. So, like I said YOU are one SICK person.

I what universe do two or more "wrongs" make one "right" ?? NO WHERE!!! Just because others are amoral or immoral doesn't force you, me, or anyone else to do amoral or immoral things. People who are WEAK WILLED and people who had LOUSY PARENTS do amoral and/or immoral things. We ALL have a choice and if YOU choose to do amoral and/or immoral things that is on YOU and nobody else.

Don't blame the 1960's or The Beatles or any other easy "whipping boy" that is just an excuse, and a poor one at that. People who are EVIL all try to pass off their EVIL WAYS (Sorry Greg R. & Carlos) as NORMAL when they are anything but normal. Maybe YOU are not strong enough to resist being brought down to their level, or maybe YOU were already there and were only looking for validation.

I have always believed that it was MY DUTY as not only an American but as a HUMAN BEING to stand up to BULLYS, LIARS, CHEATERS, STEALERS, and all who would PERVERT our world by purporting that such acts and the people who do them. Stand up and be counted, or be counted OUT.

[RiverDog]

Supporting "grab 'em by the p*****s" Trump and decrying moral decay is rich ...

On a sliding scale of moral decay, I would think that the sitting POTUS using his cigar as a French tickler on a 21 year old groupie and tasting it would be just a little left of center to that of mere words said by a foul mouth billionaire.

[Aseahawkfan]

Do you really believe this started in the 60s? It's so astounding how many people are so hornswaggled by the media.

Now you have hawktawk and Idhawkman belieivng this nation didn't have these dark things going on in the past when we at times had brothels and prostitution that was legal and backwoods abortions and shotgun marriages as well as criminalized adultery. I guess it's all a matter of degrees, but poor treatment of women has been quite prevalent in this nation, especially when it was considered acceptable to slap your woman around when she was out of line. And rape, incest, and molestation was swept under the carpet by the authorities.

These men from the 60s to now didn't just learn recently those behaviors. They were passed down from generations past. When men had power including the backing of institutions, they did what they wanted with impunity. Women couldn't speak out like they did nowadays because they wouldn't have been allowed to.

I'm glad these women finally feel more empowered to speak up rather than let it be swept under like the good old boy system or made to look like whores to keep them quiet. Historically speaking, this nation has been pretty hard on women expecting them to seem like faithful nuns with their husband as god in public, while doing what they're told and putting up with all kinds of trash from men in private.

It's no wonder we are where we are. America is built on a carefully craft illusion that so many still believe in. It's been some of the most effective propaganda in history while men in power often did what they wanted with impunity for reasons the American people don't even come close to knowing the depth of, since it is always so easy to find a worse behaving scapegoat to make us look better. America is a very human country with all the darkness we find in other nations over the years that has been ultimately successful in finding someone that looks even worse to make its acts seem less crude, cruel, and criminal.

That's why I don't care about the Trumps and the like anymore. I've come to accept that this is how nations are. If you want your nation to be powerful, you're going to need some aggressive leaders to make it happen. This idea of white knights making good leaders is horsecrap. You want to win a war, you hire men that like war. You want to get something done in this world, you hire some testosterone driven son of a b**** that will make it happen even if he is banging chicks on the side. You want to create a new nation, you look at anything standing in your way as an obstacle to crush and manage. This isn't a kind world. It's a competitive world. And driven people aren't generally the nicest, fairest, best character people because to lead, build, and sustain a nation takes someone willing to get his hands dirty.

Only in movies do you get to be a white knight and win. In real life, humans don't function that way. We don't have the option of perfection. Sometimes the goals require you to do some amoral or immoral acts. If you're not willing to do it, then you may lose or a suffer a cost far in excess of the cost of a ruthless, pragmatic decision. The best man for the job isn't often a white knight.

If you didn't know Hollywood is, was, and always will be a place where morality goes to die barring a few exceptions like Jimmy Stewart, Roddy McDowell, or Bob Hope, I don't what to tell you. I read up on old movie stars and was shocked to find out guys like Amercan icon John Wayne was married three times and Sean Connery believed in cuffing his wife and that drug and alcohol abuse existed before the 60s.

World's a grey place with pockets of light and some pockets of darkness, but mostly just somewhere in the middle. Humans are way too emotionally driven by compulsion for it to likely be any other way ever. I gave up on the idea of a white knight ages ago. Now I'd just like someone reasonably competent and to stop having my tax money used to pay for amoral activities like drug use or abortion and wars that America shouldn't be involved in that have our military killing thousands to tens of thousands of people while weapon producing companies line their pockets and our men and women are sent to do the bidding of a corrupt government that continues to want to believe World War 2 provided us some kind of moral duty or right to act as the world's police force. Sexual harassment is still minor league when it comes to all the corruption in Washington as far as I'm concerned. Another distraction from Hollyweird from the real corruption in politics afflicting this nation.

[burrrton]

Supporting "grab 'em by the p*****s" Trump and decrying moral decay is rich ...

Did you vote for Hillary?

[burrrton]

I would love to have the white knight that has no glass in his house CBob, but I haven't met that guy every in my life.

Then allow me to introduce you to Mitt Romney.

Whatever you think of his policies, the guy was as pure as the driven snow. The character attacks on the guy were *literally* laughable.

[idhawkman]

I would love to have the white knight that has no glass in his house CBob, but I haven't met that guy every in my life.

Then allow me to introduce you to Mitt Romney.

Whatever you think of his policies, the guy was as pure as the driven snow. The character attacks on the guy were *literally* laughable.

I voted for Mitt, but Mitt had his flaws also. He got knocked on his heels by Obama in the debates and lost the votes needed to be president. Two points knocked him backwards and he wasn't "aggressive enough" to call the other person a liar to their face.

It's rich when we now look at what Obama's administration was doing at the time when he said the 80's wanted their policies back.

Second one was when he let the moderator jump into the middle of the debate and knock him on his heels.

Those two moments ended Mitt. It wasn't the binder of womens names in my opinion.

[burrrton]

It wasn't the binder of womens names in my opinion.

The people hollering "BINDERS!" at that time couldn't themselves tell you what the h3ll that charge was about. It was just throwing sh*t at the wall and seeing what stuck.

I'm not saying Mitt was a perfect candidate- I'm only speaking to the desire for a candidate with no skeletons in his closet, and when the worst charge leveled is "he restructured a company once", it's clear he had none.

[idhawkman]

I agree there were no skeletons which only tells me that a certain populace wants the snow white candidate but when they get one, they won't vote for them because they don't have the Cajones to do what's necessary - especially when dealing with someone like Putin, Chavez, etc.

[RiverDog]

Do you really believe this started in the 60s?

What I got out of the discussion wasn't that sexual assault, misconduct, et al started in the 60's, it was the media attention to such behavior, and that clearly wasn't present until rather recently.

It was completely absent in the 60's, or at least the early 60's. JFK was perhaps the biggest philanderer that the office has ever known, but there was a code of silence practiced by the media back then. JFK wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes under the scrutiny and awareness that's present in modern day society.

[Hawktawk]

The silence of the POTUS is deafening as it relates to the Roy Moore scandal. Why? because a cockroach freezes when you shine a flashlight on it. Trump is correct and probably smart to understand if he says get out of the race whats the next question going to be.

I love how Id and others talk about how Trump made a crude comment or whatever. Trump ADMITTED TO SEXUAL ASSAULT. He BRAGGED about it on a tape he didn't know about and then much as Judge Moore when the women felt safe to tell their story they started coming out of the woodwork.Then he accuses them all of lying and apparently Id and plenty of others either believe him or don't give a s*** because they like his politics.

But get it straight, you are supporting an abuser of women if you support Trump.Just like if you supported Clinton, either of them. My position is that neither major party has a right to point fingers whatsoever.

And RD buddy it is indeed getting worse. Yes there were always scandals but they used to end political careers before Clinton. Now a guy can brag about grabbing pu@@y, have 12 people verify it and be the POTUS.

And it is entirely possible a known pedophile according to the accounts of more people hourly will be seated in the US senate. Its way worse. The media used to not pick sides on sex scandals. Now they do, Faux vs everyone else.Hannity finally is coming to Jesus on the Moore thing, not out of conscience because he has no soul.
Its because of his advertisers having had enough of him defending a molester.Disgusting

[idhawkman]

That's just ridiculous. He wants to focus on the things that matter to all of us and tell us about his foreign trip. Why? Because the MSM didn't cover any of it while he was abroad. Now it is taxes. He'll address it when it needs addressing.

Let them do the forensics on the year book and see if it is 40 year old ink and handwriting. There's serious concerns about that signature already. If that comes back as forged, everyone will have egg, no omelette, all over their face. Let the process happen and address it when it is clear instead of jumping to conclusions like Obama did so often and got every one of them wrong.

[Largent80]

Moore was with a 14 year old and justified it by saying he had the mother's permission. It is sexual assault and he should be prosecuted for it in spite of any time elapsed.

This is disgusting behavior that Rump has brought to the forefront.

[Hawktawk]

And now Al Franken

[idhawkman]

Moore was with a 14 year old and justified it by saying he had the mother's permission. It is sexual assault and he should be prosecuted for it in spite of any time elapsed.

This is disgusting behavior that Rump has brought to the forefront.

No. You have bogus information. He has not admitted to being with a 14 year old. Go back and listen to what he has said and what he is denying.

[idhawkman]

And now Al Franken

Oh believe me, this is only the tip of the iceburg and that big piece of ice is not on one side of the aisle - this is both sides.

Wait until the MSM start reporting on the hush money that has been paid and the process that female staffers have to go through to file a complaint. What do you think could have been done with the $15.5M that has been paid out as hush money to female staffers? That is just the settlements, too. Part timers and Interns were not afforded the avenue to use this system either. Just full time staffers.

Washington is a filthy seething place with all kinds of swamp monsters.

edited: And they want to act sanctimoniously toward Moore? They don't want to seat him? I hope they use the same litmus test for the members who have taken advantage of staffers, interns and other part timers?

[Seahawks4Ever]

Al Franken is FINISHED. Leeann Tweeden, I doubt, is the ONLY woman that Franken has sexually assaulted and/or harassed over the years. Franken's so-called apology was wishie-washie at best and IMHO had no sincerity at all. I am sure Al Franken is sorry, sorry that Mrs. Tweeden has found the courage to out a very powerful person who, after he had assaulted her continued to belittle and bully her. This was not about sex, they never are. This was and is all about POWER, the power that Franken wielded over Leeann Tweeden and who knows how many others.

Just as many will fully understand why it took eleven years for her to come forward, "strength in numbers", was her reply when asked why now? I believe her, 1000%. I do hope that people will accept that is the reason that other women, women that have made allegations about other powerful people whose political identity are right of center and not just those that make allegations about those whose politics are left of center.

I would hope that all could agree that none of us would wish such despicable behavior be perpetrated on any girl or woman or even man or boy whether they are a loved one, friend, acquaintance, or even someone we don't even know.

She said that she had wanted to "punch Franken right in the face", she probably should have, but she was afraid of the possible repercussions and she was probably right, she would have faced "blow back".

The ONLY honorable thing other than a true heartfelt apology Al Franken can do now is to resign his office immediately.

Yesterday a congresswoman said that there were TWO CURRENT members of congress (1 democrat one republican) who were KNOWN to be sexual deviants. I wonder IF the democrat WAS Al Franken or if that now makes at least TWO dems? I am sure there are more pervs. from both sides of the aisle.

The networks have been quick to remind people about Republican Senator Bob Packwood of Oregon yet conveniently forgot to mention our Washington Senator Brock Adams, a Democrat, who was driven from office for having sex with one of his best friends daughters whom was also of very young age. Then, there was our governor, Democrat Mike Lowry..., Republican congressman John Miller...

When I hear people say that they have known such and such a person for 10-20-30 or more years and that there was "never anything Bad" EVER said about that person I have to wonder if they were the persons who were turning a "blind eye" or was it the local media or was it a combination of both???

[Hawktawk]

That's just ridiculous. He wants to focus on the things that matter to all of us and tell us about his foreign trip. Why? Because the MSM didn't cover any of it while he was abroad. Now it is taxes. He'll address it when it needs addressing.

You are clueless about the MSM. They covered every single story of his trip, just objectively rather than fawning all over him.
He was asked the question and said NOTHING. He might have said " I don't have time to discuss it" Ill discuss it later etc. He is scared witless of the topic because he knows he is guilty of the same type of things and the tide is turning in the victim's favor like a...Tsunami.And Bannon still supports the molester and Hannity is back on board since his viewers are obviously fine with molesters, rapists, and harassers.

Let them do the forensics on the year book and see if it is 40 year old ink and handwriting. There's serious concerns about that signature already. If that comes back as forged, everyone will have egg, no omelette, all over their face. Let the process happen and address it when it is clear instead of jumping to conclusions like Obama did so often and got every one of them wrong.

ID surely you are smarter than this Do you truly think a woman who can prove proximity to Roy Moore, proven record of employment at the restaurant ( that he says he didn't even know existed), prove she has told family, friends, husbands about the attempted rape over the years is lying? Do you think she dug out a yearbook and figured out how to forge Roy Moore's signature and handwriting perfectly based on what Ive seen side by side with 40 year old ink and make up an inappropriate comment along with the date and restaurant name just to keep him out to the senate? She and her husband voted for Trump BTW. This nonsense is just a ruse, a stall tactic. The woman has volunteered to testify under oath to the senate and have the book evaluated by a senate handwriting expert. No word on whether it will be accepted so far. But really Id? Smell the coffee man..

Why hasn't he shown his proof he didn't rape Leigh Corfman when she was 14? He said he would .She also supported Trump like 70% of the state. She can prove the date of her court appearance for a custody hearing making her 14 at the time. Her mother recalls Moore offering to keep an eye on her so she didn't have to enter the courtroom which se thought was a nice gesture at the time. Leigh knew how long it took to his house in a neighboring town where he took her twice to molest her and could describe the house with its long gravel driveway in the trees perfectly.

Why did she say he touched her over her underwear? why not naked, tied up, sheep and dogs in the room, whatever?I mean its all made up right Id? why not really nail him?

Because they are all telling the truth. 9 of them now report inappropriate behavior to them in their teens. There are over 30 corroborating witnesses to these girls story, security guards, girls who worked in stores in the mall in their teens who were continuously harassed by him. The man was banned from the mall for a time for hitting on young girls. Its really sad you can actually deny this stuff man.

You are really deluding yourself if you believe a complete Koo Koo who dresses like Woody from toy story over this many people and careful thorough reporting.
He believes a woman's right to choose ends when she is still a child and then sanctimoniously passes judgement on everyone else..Hell was built for him and his supporters...

[Seahawks4Ever]

HawkT. You are wasting your time with IDH. His head is so far up Trumps anus he knows what the man had for breakfast. If Trump took a dump and told IDH. to eat it he would, then he would tell us how great it tasted.

Anyone one who would support perverts like Trump and Moore is probably a PERVERT himself. That IS it , is it not Idaho Hawk?? BTW, we actually don't need so-called "fans" such as yourself so why don't you go root for the Cowboys, a dbag like JJ seems more like your speed anyhow.

I mean, what kind of USEFULL IDIOT is going to LIE about how the MSM didn't "cover" Trump's S Asian trip when everyone and I mean EVERYONE knows that Trump "froze out" the media, especially the American media. Oh, Russian media he loves.

What kind of TRAITOR awards a NO BID contract to a RUSSIAN "security" firm connected to PUTIN to provide ALL of the security at our AMERICAN Embassy in Moscow.

Oh, and IDH, you brag at how you were in "Special Ops", well, I have several friends who are Rangers out at JBLM and they say people who brag like you are PHONIES. Real Special Ops don't brag. They believe that maybe you were PLO. No, you didn't infiltrate the terrorist group, you were Permanent Latrine Orderly! Oh, and since you knew your way around spuds. when you weren't cleaning toilets you were peeling potatoes. Hint, "special duty" ain't Special Ops. Did you really think it was a compliment when they nicknamed you GOMER???

Besides IDH, since you love Traitor Trump so much I am sure you are a traitor yourself, I am sure you have wasted no time selling out your country. Don't worry, all that means is you don't have to worry about being tar and feathered like most of the Trumptards, it will be the ROPE around your neck for YOU.

[Hawktawk]

Listen 4ever thats just too much. Id and I disagree politically right now and IMO its an Fing cult, its a spell placed over him and everyone like him who will overlook evil to advance ideology.

My only brother and my best friend in the world are just like him. Both watch Fox news exclusively coincidentally. But Id is like I was 2 years ago and does not deserve that raft of Sh!+ you just floated.

Ill give Trump credit for me taking off my blinders. America is far worse off as the animosity between people who wouldnt have disagreed on a damn thing 2 years ago shows.
But I'm a better person for having escaped the Fox/conservative republican hypocrite cult. I highly recommend it.

[Largent80]

If Rumps idea of "Making America Great Again" is lying and being hypocritical then he is delivering on his promise.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-apos-t ... 49308.html

[Hawktawk]

If Rumps idea of "Making America Great Again" is lying and being hypocritical then he is delivering on his promise.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-apos-t ... 49308.html

Hes just like his adoring sheep. Its only true if its not a Republican. A poll taken yesterday shows that Republicans believe Bill Clinton was a rapist by about 80/20%. These same people Trust Roy Moore over credible accusers who voted for Trump and only 18% believe Bill O'reilly did anything wrong in spite of the known fact that 20 million dollars was paid to settle multiple lawsuits!!!!!!

Only 6% believe Trumps accusers even though hes ON TAPE BRAGGING about exactly what he is accused of.

When he stayed silent on Moore, mute actually, twitter free zone and let his spokesperson sanders send out a statement saying that "the president finds these reports disturbing but thinks the voters of Alabama need to decide" I thought he might be wising up to his vulnerabilities. But oh no he went there.....
Ill give Franken this. He offered a sincere sounding detailed apology and some pretty profound observations on the state of affairs in men and women's relations in the process. His victim Tweedy accepted his apology.

Trump still calls his accusers liars as did the detestable pig sanders from the podium. There aint enough detergent on the planet to clean the grime off that body when she gets done doing what she does for this administration.

[RiverDog]

Eisenhower as well. The media had different standards about "what is news?" and private life was not as published as it is today. Movie stars, yes, but politicians, no.

I've read quite a bit about Eisenhower, and he had a pretty well known extra marital affair going on with his female driver during the war, but none that I am aware of as POTUS. My uncle, who served in the European theatre during the war as a an enlisted man, used to joke about it, so it was very widespread knowledge. The media had to have made a conscious effort to ignore it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Hes just like his adoring sheep. Its only true if its not a Republican. A poll taken yesterday shows that Republicans believe Bill Clinton was a rapist by about 80/20%. These same people Trust Roy Moore over credible accusers who voted for Trump and only 18% believe Bill O'reilly did anything wrong in spite of the known fact that 20 million dollars was paid to settle multiple lawsuits!!!!!!

Only 6% believe Trumps accusers even though hes ON TAPE BRAGGING about exactly what he is accused of.

When he stayed silent on Moore, mute actually, twitter free zone and let his spokesperson sanders send out a statement saying that "the president finds these reports disturbing but thinks the voters of Alabama need to decide" I thought he might be wising up to his vulnerabilities. But oh no he went there.....
Ill give Franken this. He offered a sincere sounding detailed apology and some pretty profound observations on the state of affairs in men and women's relations in the process. His victim Tweedy accepted his apology.

Trump still calls his accusers liars as did the detestable pig sanders from the podium. There aint enough detergent on the planet to clean the grime off that body when she gets done doing what she does for this administration.

Who is dirtier in your mind having watched the administrations of both presidents: Bill Clinton or Trump? If you had to vote for Bill or Trump knowing what you know now, which slimeball do you vote for? Slick Willy or Rump?

[Hawktawk]

I’d vote for Gary Johnson.you get no traction making me choose syphillus or gonorea.
As a president and ambassador for America Clinton was head and shoulders better. Trump has had some successes with his agenda in areas, but this isn’t about politics. Voters need to get off their figurative rears and educate themselves and stop accepting rotten filthy predators as our president .

[idhawkman]

I’d vote for Gary Johnson.you get no traction making me choose syphillus or gonorea.

That's rich. So you choose your sister to kiss. Great logic.

As a president and ambassador for America Clinton was head and shoulders better. Trump has had some successes with his agenda in areas, but this isn’t about politics.

What a total crock of crap! Clinton who gave away our missle technology to China who has now given it to N. Korea? Who also gave away hundreds of millions of dollars to Rocket Man's father and started this whole distortion crap that both W. and Obama continued. Who also gave away $400 million dollars to the Ukranians to shut down the other three reactors at Chernobyl and then never followed up with any of them to see if they actually carried through on their end of the bargains? Let's not mention NAFTA and all the other ridiculous trade agreements Clinton entered into to give away our manufacturing base in the U.S. in exchange for high paying tech jobs just to turn around and issues thousands of H1B visas so that the Indians, Chinese and Israelis could take those high paying jobs back to their countries. What a total disaster that president was.

Contrast that with the respect and deference Trump is getting everytime he travels abroad, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars in deals he brings back with him. He's gotten Saudi Arabia to help root out ISIS is Yemen, sex relations are opening up in that country now too. Saudis are sticking up to Iran again. China is putting pressure on N. Korea so much so that Trump is now sending a diplomatic Envoy to N. Korea.

Ever wonder why you didn't hear about these successes from your "unbiased media?" Could it be they are actually, biased?

Voters need to get off their figurative rears and educate themselves and stop accepting rotten filthy predators as our president .

This will never happen if you don't pay people enough to get the best to run for office and quit trying to find the littlest things to tear a person down. Who in their right mind would want that hubble telescope shoved up their keister?

[Hawktawk]

Ok so nobody should be checked out for rape or molestation like your hero in the White House Id?
And yes as a ambassador, as a leader and as one who could intelligently and articulately speak and as one who could reach across the aisle and do stuff like welfare reform and balanced budget yeah Klinton is
10000000 times better .

As a rapist the jury is out but if I absolutely have to have a molester as a president I’d as soon have a competent eloquent one who I feel can be trusted with nukes. And I didn’t kiss my sister voting for Johnson. I decided there was something much more important than saying I won an election.

Id hawkman you are a poster child for why we have scum running this country. Nothing will change.

[idhawkman]

Ok so nobody should be checked out for rape or molestation like your hero in the White House Id?

If you are not going to do a basic google search on a topic there's no where to go with the subject. He's been charged, he's defended himself and he has won. So he has been "checked out" as you put it.

And yes as a ambassador, as a leader and as one who could intelligently and articulately speak and as one who could reach across the aisle and do stuff like welfare reform and balanced budget yeah Klinton is
10000000 times better .

Again, you need to get informed in order to keep up an intelligent conversation. The president doesn't balance a budget. The budget is the House of Representatives responsibility. Maybe that's why they never passed a budget under the Obama administration's term. They had no problem running the deficit up $10T over 8 years.

As a rapist the jury is out but if I absolutely have to have a molester as a president I’d as soon have a competent eloquent one who I feel can be trusted with nukes. And I didn’t kiss my sister voting for Johnson. I decided there was something much more important than saying I won an election.

Just because you "THINK" he is something doesn't mean he is that.

Thanks for telling us all that you are a snowflake and need your feelings to be soothed. Do you have a good safe space to go to? It's not about your feelings. I didn't like Obama and would have cringed if Hillary won but I'd get up and try to support her and our nation instead of trying to overturn the election. Its time to get over it and move on regardless of your fragile feelings.

Voting for Johnson was the same as kissing your sister. Made you "Feel" good and didn't hurt anyone.

Id hawkman you are a poster child for why we have scum running this country. Nothing will change.

Yep, I knew the ad hominem attack was going to come from you but the one thing I realize is that "even the best man sins 7 times a day." (Do you know where I got that quote?) Show me someone who has been a politician for more than 5 years and I'll show you a scum bag in some way, shape or form. They are the only ones who will let the hubble telescope up their keister just to run for office.

[Hawktawk]

Republicans . The defenders of the rapist and molester and none more steadfastly than Id hawkman. Own it your as big an enabler as Joe Paterno. Rape is not a “every little thing” requiring a keister scope. When you’re on tape bragging g about the same thing Franken admitted to your denials don’t get you the benefit of the doubt. Not against 14 women and this isn’t over and I relish watching this groping sob twist in the wind.

[ShackMod]

Curb this conversion or it will be deleted.

[Hawktawk]

I apologize . Is it the topic in general that’s a problem or the tone of the discourse between posters or both?

[burrrton]

I apologize . Is it the topic in general that’s a problem or the tone of the discourse between posters or both?

I can't speak for our mod, but I'd guess it's because you can't dial your rhetoric down from 11- start trying to have a rational conversation instead of injecting RAPIST MOLESTER GROPING SOB into literally every response.

[Hawktawk]

I can't speak for our mod, but I'd guess it's because you can't dial your rhetoric down from 11- start trying to have a rational conversation instead of injecting RAPIST MOLESTER GROPING SOB into literally every response.[/quote]
Every response. Ok.

Sorry everyone. As I say the issue hits close to home, too close. I believe the words I use are too good for these people because I believe the accusers in the instance we are discussing.

I don’t believe all accusers but I don’t let politics or even quite frankly whether they are friend or family influence it. That is all for the TMI from me on the topic other than to say this bothers me worse than anything else in this administration and in politics and places of power in general.
I’ll wait to hear from shack mod what is appropriate and respect it completely .
I like OT it’s always been a robust part of this chat group and I don’t want to be part of jeapardizing it.