The Russia thing

[RiverDog]

Trump may be brought to trial, but whether he will be removed from office I'm not sure of. So far they are getting people for old charges involving money laundering and lying to the FBI. I'm not sure Trump has been subpoenaed or under oath for investigations. He may soon be.

The math doesn't look good for removal from office. The R's already control the Senate and they don't have to defend very many seats in the mid terms. It requires a 2/3 vote for conviction in an impeachment trial, meaning that about half of the R's along with all the Dems would have to be persuaded in order to remove Trump from office. It's going to take a major, major bombshell revelation to obtain that kind of negative vote.

[Aseahawkfan]

The math doesn't look good for removal from office. The R's already control the Senate and they don't have to defend very many seats in the mid terms. It requires a 2/3 vote for conviction in an impeachment trial, meaning that about half of the R's along with all the Dems would have to be persuaded in order to remove Trump from office. It's going to take a major, major bombshell revelation to obtain that kind of negative vote.

Does impeachment prevent you from running for a second term?

[idhawkman]

Not necessarily. In much the same way as George Papadopoulos Flynn was given an extremely favorable plea.

He has got to be expected and probably has already delivered some big time leads in the investigation or it would not have happened.

Over the last couple of days reports surfaced that Kushner was called in by mueller a month ago to testify what he knew about Flynn.What did he say under penalty of perjury and does this line up with what Flynn has testified to?
This thing is about to blow wide open. Pretty hard to call it a nothingburger now......

Good guess but no.

This was released way before Mueller wanted to release it because it is all he had to wipe the tax bill passing by the Senate off the front pages of the newspapers.

So here's what Flynn conffesses to.

He contacted the Russians during the transition phase in December of 2016. Uh.... So let's see, he is contatcting the Russians after the election in regards to Collusion. That's like saying "man robs bank". Oops, man make ATM withdrawal from bank.

So now lets get to Flynn. Have you ever heard about Fruit of the poison tree? Flynn was fired by the White House because he "LIED" to V.P. Pence about his contact with the Russians. Now he has "LIED" to the FBI about the same contact. (on a side note, the media and some posters are acting like this is "NEW NEWS" which is laughable on its face.) So now he is on record for lying twice. Do you think any of his testimony is credible regarding turning state's evidence?

Now let's talk about the actual act of what he did. During a transitional government, he reached out to another foreign power and made contact as a national security advisor. That's what transitional governments do. This is what is so confusing about Flynn lying to Pence and the FBI. There is nothing illegal in what he did. There's nothing illegal in a "Sr. Administration Official" telling him to contact the Russian ambassador.

So let's summarize. Flynn is not a credible witness. He lied about doing legal and normal stuff. There is no collusion to rig the election. All this has done is remove the tax reform bill passing in the Senate from the headlines of all news outlets.

[RiverDog]

Does impeachment prevent you from running for a second term?

Nope. They can only remove them for the balance of the term. In the Constitution, there are only 4 disqualifying conditions for a POTUS candidate: They must be at least 35 years old, they must be a natural born citizen, they must have lived in the US for at least 14 years, and they can't have served as POTUS for more than 1 1/2 terms.

Your question does pose an interesting scenario: Suppose Congress impeaches and removes from office President Smith, then 6 months later, former President Smith runs again and is elected POTUS by a landslide. It would be an interesting fight between the people and their elected representatives.

[Hawktawk]

Whatever ones opinion of the gravity of the scandal it was sweet music to my ears watching the fake news replay Flynn chanting “lock her up”.

Sweeter still watching rump praise Flynn over and over in clip after clip. This isn’t the coffee boy.

As for trump apologists trying to pass this off as normal activities by an incoming administration even assuming you are correct there is no question Trump repeatedly tried to hinder the investigation and he and aides have been liars from the beginning.there is trump himself doctoring a false statement from don jr about the trump
Tower meeting aboard AF 1. Concealment and deception evidence of guilt . The coverup
Trumps the crime.


Whistle in the graveyard if you must. I see problems ahead for trump train

[Aseahawkfan]

Whatever ones opinion of the gravity of the scandal it was sweet music to my ears watching the fake news replay Flynn chanting “lock her up”.

Sweeter still watching rump praise Flynn over and over in clip after clip. This isn’t the coffee boy.

As for trump apologists trying to pass this off as normal activities by an incoming administration even assuming you are correct there is no question Trump repeatedly tried to hinder the investigation and he and aides have been liars from the beginning.there is trump himself doctoring a false statement from don jr about the trump
Tower meeting aboard AF 1. Concealment and deception evidence of guilt . The coverup
Trumps the crime.


Whistle in the graveyard if you must. I see problems ahead for trump train

I just wish this would get over. My main concern is I'm holding money out of the market until this Trump thing is resolved. The market dropped 350 points on a false news story from ABC that implicated Trump in the rigmarole with Flynn. If a 350 point drop occurred from false reporting, the drop will be much bigger if something really happens to Trump. If he evades any charges, the market will rise. If he is charged, it will fall hard. It's like when he won the election. You weren't sure what was going to happen and the outcome was going to have a major effect on the market.

It's dragging out to the detriment of the nation.

[RiverDog]

I just wish this would get over. My main concern is I'm holding money out of the market until this Trump thing is resolved. The market dropped 350 points on a false news story from ABC that implicated Trump in the rigmarole with Flynn. If a 350 point drop occurred from false reporting, the drop will be much bigger if something really happens to Trump. If he evades any charges, the market will rise. If he is charged, it will fall hard. It's like when he won the election. You weren't sure what was going to happen and the outcome was going to have a major effect on the market.

It's dragging out to the detriment of the nation.

That would be my only concern if Trump ever got close enough to impeachment. The markets hate uncertainty, and if Trump ever got into serious enough trouble that impeachment became a real possibility, everyone is going to start pulling their money out of the market.

[idhawkman]

Whatever ones opinion of the gravity of the scandal it was sweet music to my ears watching the fake news replay Flynn chanting “lock her up”.

Sweeter still watching rump praise Flynn over and over in clip after clip. This isn’t the coffee boy.

As for trump apologists trying to pass this off as normal activities by an incoming administration even assuming you are correct there is no question Trump repeatedly tried to hinder the investigation and he and aides have been liars from the beginning.there is trump himself doctoring a false statement from don jr about the trump
Tower meeting aboard AF 1. Concealment and deception evidence of guilt . The coverup
Trumps the crime.


Whistle in the graveyard if you must. I see problems ahead for trump train

So lets break down your statements above. Trump helped his son prepare for a congressional hearing and that is obstruction of justice. Riiiiight! There is nothing else that was done to obstruct other than what was already known, that Flynn lied to V.P. Pence and then the FBI about contacting the Russian ambassador after the election. None of which is illegal outside the lying. The confusing part is that he didn't need to lie.

Now that Mueller has charged Flynn with lying, Flynn is no longer a credible witness and has disqualified any of his testimony for future prosecutions. Now we are hearing that 6 months ago his top investigator was let go from the Special Counsel's investigation because of his Anti Trump bias and pro Hillary tweets to another FBI agent. This particular SR. Investigator was present at Hillary's interview in the email scandal and the Sr. Investigator in the whole Hillary email server investigation. He also was present when Comey drafted the exhoneration document of Hillary. Talk about obstruction. Now they have to open that whole thing up again.

Now that this guy has been fired from Mueller's staff, he is now leading the FBI's H.R. division. I bet that changes soon.

The whistling past the graveyard is not being done by republcans, it is the democrats who are accusing the Trump administration of the crimes that the democrats are actually commiting.

[idhawkman]

I just wish this would get over. My main concern is I'm holding money out of the market until this Trump thing is resolved. The market dropped 350 points on a false news story from ABC that implicated Trump in the rigmarole with Flynn. If a 350 point drop occurred from false reporting, the drop will be much bigger if something really happens to Trump. If he evades any charges, the market will rise. If he is charged, it will fall hard. It's like when he won the election. You weren't sure what was going to happen and the outcome was going to have a major effect on the market.

It's dragging out to the detriment of the nation.

I loved Trumps tweet today telling those who lost money on that false news should sue ABC for damages. That's a classic and if there was ever a "Quotable Quotes" of the twitter world, that one should be in it.

[Hawktawk]

I loved Trumps tweet today telling those who lost money on that false news should sue ABC for damages. That's a classic and if there was ever a "Quotable Quotes" of the twitter world, that one should be in it.

you realize Trumps bizarre tweets attacking various corporations and industries and pumping others has caused many billions of dollars in fluctuations in the market within minutes, right?

As for the ABC reporter at least ABC suspended him for really a pretty minor factual error involving the timeline of Flynn's communications. Fox lies daily other than Shep smith and there is no accountability. Sarah Huckabee sanders will burn as hot as Charles Manson for what she has done to truth and integrity and decency in this nation.

Oh and it's reported today that Trumps personal attorney John Dowd informed him in January that Flynn had lied to the FBI. Thats super important because trump did not fire Flynn until mid Feb when news of Flynn's meetings and deception surfaced in the media.

The day after the firing Trump met privately with Comey and according to Comey pressured him to "let this go, let Flynn go". So Trump clearly knew Flynn had committed a felony when he asked to have the investigation end.
Shortly thereafter he fires Comey and blames his treatment of the Clinton Email scandal and basically says it was assistant AG Rosenstein's idea.

Rosenstein threatened to resign unless that was walked back. Within 2 days Trump had made numerous statements that he had fired Comey over Russia
Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller 2 days later. Now here we are.

Oh yeah and hilariously enough Trump tweets out Saturday that he Fired Flynn because he lied to pence "AND TO THE FBI," a highly incriminating timeline again reinforcing he knew what Flynn had done when he pressured Comey. His attorney Dowd has taken one for the team saying he had composed the tweet for Trump. I bet he composed the ones about the FBI being in "tatters" too

Yeah Dowd would write something incriminating for Trump to tweet out in the first person when its been clear for over a year the legal team would prefer he say nothing

I know Id will explain this away but not too many people are going to buy that one.....

[idhawkman]

He should have let Rosenstein walk.

Trump can fire anyone he wants at anytime he wants - they serve at the pleasure of the president.

Flynn lied and they destroyed him. Hillary lied multiple times to the FBI and they let her skate free. Just because you lose an election doesn't mean you get a "get out of jail free" card.

[c_hawkbob]

I we could come up with a standard measure for what we believe to be a lie and what we do not believe to be a lie and apply it equally we might come to some honest understanding of what the truth looks like. As it is I'm afraid the standard most in here apply is which side said it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Truth and the trust that goes with it is something you hope to get from friends. You won't find much truth in Washington D.C. It's why this system is built the way it is. Our Founders trusted no one, not even themselves. So they created a government with so many moving parts that you didn't need truth to make it work, just a lot of people working against each other so that no one group gains too much power to inflict their "truth" on the masses. I'm just fine keeping it that way. I don't need to trust politicians, I just need to see as many of them fighting over what various people want as possible so we can come to some kind of workable compromise.

[Hawktawk]

Truth and the trust that goes with it is something you hope to get from friends. You won't find much truth in Washington D.C. It's why this system is built the way it is. Our Founders trusted no one, not even themselves. So they created a government with so many moving parts that you didn't need truth to make it work, just a lot of people working against each other so that no one group gains too much power to inflict their "truth" on the masses. I'm just fine keeping it that way. I don't need to trust politicians, I just need to see as many of them fighting over what various people want as possible so we can come to some kind of workable compromise.

ASea I agree with this in a way and in a way I don't. Trust and politician for the most part go their own separate ways at some point. There are probably hundreds of decent idealistic candidates for city council but by the time they run the gauntlet to national office and get seared with the cynicism they are pure political animals looking out for #1.They sytem of co equal branches has served us well over the centuries.

But where I disagree is that truth doesn't matter. Just because politicians are basically liars much of the time there is still true and false in terms of actuality and we as voters have failed to demand it or recognize and call out lies.

Also the level of partisan rancor and win at all costs has never been nearly as bad as now. Dems want Conyers who has assaulted numerous women to "leave on his own terms". Franken is going to ride it out. Blake Farenthold from Texas paid out 85 K in our tax dollars and i haven't seen Paul ryan calling for his resignation. Then of course there's Trump going all in for the molester in Alabama and even the RNC has restored its rescind endorsement and is dumping 1 million in the final week despite another extremely credible witness, a republican businesswoman claiming to have proof of Moore's lies including a graduation card from Roy Moore.
Even in the scandal ridden Clinton years there were many instances where he crossed party lines to balance the budget and implement welfare reform etc.

Now there is less integrity (well, none) and there is no bipartisanship whatever no matter who is in power. Its not sustainable like this no matter what the founders intended. We need to demand more, research our candidates more but we are just too intellectually and politically low information and lazy. We are in deep doo doo.

[idhawkman]

ASea I agree with this in a way and in a way I don't. Trust and politician for the most part go their own separate ways at some point. There are probably hundreds of decent idealistic candidates for city council but by the time they run the gauntlet to national office and get seared with the cynicism they are pure political animals looking out for #1.They sytem of co equal branches has served us well over the centuries.

And yet when someone runs who is not a politician and corrupted by the system, the media and others filet him because he's not a politician. Unbelievable that you made this point.

But where I disagree is that truth doesn't matter. Just because politicians are basically liars much of the time there is still true and false in terms of actuality and we as voters have failed to demand it or recognize and call out lies.

Also the level of partisan rancor and win at all costs has never been nearly as bad as now. Dems want Conyers who has assaulted numerous women to "leave on his own terms". Franken is going to ride it out. Blake Farenthold from Texas paid out 85 K in our tax dollars and i haven't seen Paul ryan calling for his resignation.

I hope you know that he paid that back to the government, right? I don't see Conyers offering to repay his settlement.

Then of course there's Trump going all in for the molester in Alabama and even the RNC has restored its rescind endorsement and is dumping 1 million in the final week despite another extremely credible witness, a republican businesswoman claiming to have proof of Moore's lies including a graduation card from Roy Moore.

And yet, nothing has been submitted for forensics on whether the ink is old or new, if its his signature or not. Again, all allegations and no proof whatsoever.

Even in the scandal ridden Clinton years there were many instances where he crossed party lines to balance the budget and implement welfare reform etc.

That's because the republicans didn't demand to get their way on all the issues. They actually sat down with the other side and worked out how they could come to a meeting of the minds. You don't get that in today's democratic party. When was the last time any democrat voted opposite of what their house or senate leader told them to vote. I'm not talking about wasted votes either where it didn't matter if they went either way on a bill and they were just casting the vote to save face in their district or state.

Now there is less integrity (well, none) and there is no bipartisanship whatever no matter who is in power. Its not sustainable like this no matter what the founders intended. We need to demand more, research our candidates more but we are just too intellectually and politically low information and lazy. We are in deep doo doo.

Agree that we are in deep doo doo. The problem is that the uneducated voter only hears sound bites without context. Issues are "too deep" for them to really understand the implications. Like Pelosi saying the tax bill is "Armageddon". Really!!! The world is coming to an end. See that just hurts their cause and if they really wanted to make things better and have a chance in the 2018 elections, then why don't they offer amendments to the bill when it is still being drafted in committees? Why not come out and tell everyone what they are for? No, they just say as Chuck Shumer said, "Kids will die if they pass this tax bill." Really? Is he even serious? But that sound bite will be repeated by many "uneducated voters" over the next month. Watch and see.

[Largent80]

LOL, so "uneducated voters" are only listening to the coined and incorrect "fake news"?

Dude, get a grip. Fake news is a fake made up thing by Rump and his minions to try and deflect all of his lies. Which, by the way are outnumbering any truths he says by 100 to one.

There isn't anything that spews from his face that isn't a lie or something else to prop himself up on a pedestal.

If a person still supports this jack wad then they themselves are jackwads.

So Congrats Mr. and Mrs Jackwad.

[burrrton]

Fake news is a fake made up thing by Rump and his minions

Who wants to tell Brian Ross?

[Aseahawkfan]

ASea I agree with this in a way and in a way I don't. Trust and politician for the most part go their own separate ways at some point. There are probably hundreds of decent idealistic candidates for city council but by the time they run the gauntlet to national office and get seared with the cynicism they are pure political animals looking out for #1.They sytem of co equal branches has served us well over the centuries.

But where I disagree is that truth doesn't matter. Just because politicians are basically liars much of the time there is still true and false in terms of actuality and we as voters have failed to demand it or recognize and call out lies.

Also the level of partisan rancor and win at all costs has never been nearly as bad as now. Dems want Conyers who has assaulted numerous women to "leave on his own terms". Franken is going to ride it out. Blake Farenthold from Texas paid out 85 K in our tax dollars and i haven't seen Paul ryan calling for his resignation. Then of course there's Trump going all in for the molester in Alabama and even the RNC has restored its rescind endorsement and is dumping 1 million in the final week despite another extremely credible witness, a republican businesswoman claiming to have proof of Moore's lies including a graduation card from Roy Moore.
Even in the scandal ridden Clinton years there were many instances where he crossed party lines to balance the budget and implement welfare reform etc.

Now there is less integrity (well, none) and there is no bipartisanship whatever no matter who is in power. Its not sustainable like this no matter what the founders intended. We need to demand more, research our candidates more but we are just too intellectually and politically low information and lazy. We are in deep doo doo.

In this thread alone I see multiple different "truths" including yours. There is no way to have truth with humans involved. They skew too much towards their beliefs. How do you have truth when someone like you calls Trump "evil incarnate", someone like me sees him as a narcissistic old man that's more of a blowhard than some evil tyrant, and someone like IDHawkman that sees him as a leader making "America Great Again." Which "truth" is right?

You can have recorded evidence. How that evidence is interpreted and what "truth" can be taken from it depends on the observer. That's why we have courts to see how the "truth" (observable, recordable, allowable evidence) fits with the law.

One lesson taught to me a long time ago is that to be successful in this world, you have to have a high tolerance for ambiguity. The world is not concrete. No matter how much humans want something concrete, it's extremely difficult to come by.

[Hawktawk]

Asea
I clarified my “evil incarnate” remarks. It was in reference to the act of molesting underage kids. As I discussed at length in the tsunami thread it hit the very heart of my family growing up and has affected our lives to this day. It is a horrible act.
In every instance it’s important to find out the truth no matter where it leads.

As for Trump I tend to agree he’s an old blowhard as opposed to evil like his bff Putin or hitler or something like that.He’s too stupid and mentally ill to be evil incarnate.
That is a problem when you are the potus though. The mans mind is melting daily. Watch the full remarks on Israel yesterday as the president struggles to read the statement and begins to slur badly at the end. Then google anything he said 15 years ago. It’s scary.

Russian investigation blowing up daily . Updates coming soon.
Hurry Bob!!!

[idhawkman]

The Russian collusion case died with the idictment and Guilty plea by Gen. Flynn.

By charging him with lying he is now a discredited witness for either side. That ends his involvement in any future charges going to anyone else. Since he plead guilty to lying during the transition phase, it ends the campaign phase of the investigation.

Additionally, because they did not charge him with a "scheme" or "strategy" crime, it ends the ability to leverage the chain going up to anyone else in the campaign or executive branch. This investigation is on its last legs and the only thing left to come out of it is the final report showing now collusion with Russian contacts.

[Hawktawk]

As mueller keeps putting down markers moving at breakneck speed the repubs in the house are in full panic mode.
They are in cahoots with the judge Janine and Sean Hannitys of the world to take down the mueller witch hunt.
The problem is...mueller, Comey, Rosenstein, sessions all republicans and new FBI Director Chris Wray donated 40 k to republicans in 2016. A couple of agents got caught texting anti trump stuff and were fired months ago. All
It proves is Muellers impartiality. He is so much better and smarter and more decent than the man he’s going to deep six.

Now we learn that Trumps NSA people and cabinet do not verbally discuss Russian meddling in front of him as it enrages him. Despite public statements he privately refused to believe 17 intelligence agencies. They treat him like a child. He can’t handle bad news. He has not convened a single cabinet level meeting on Russia and has not directed the justice department to adopt any countermeasures to stop Russian interference . He signed sanctions legislation 6 months ago but complained loudly and has yet to implement law he signed . Vlad Putin praised Trump
In his 4 hour press conference for the economy , markets etc. he said Russian meddling was a hoax to stop trump and it was bizarre. A couple of hours later Putin and Trump speak by phone. It is first reported by Tass exactly the same as the reported 90 minute call earlier in the year. Putin is calling the shots for the POTUS.
I’m so creeped out by what appears to be a frankly treasonous president intentionally leaving our defenses down with a KGB killer.

America is in great peril. Hurry up Bob Mueller.

[Hawktawk]

Asked whether he would consider pardoning Flynn just this morning Trump replied”I don’t want to talk about pardons, yet...”

That would be clear obstruction . Potus cannot fire or pardon anyone to influence an investigation of themselves. This treason makes watergate look like child’s play.

[RiverDog]

Asked whether he would consider pardoning Flynn just this morning Trump replied”I don’t want to talk about pardons, yet...”

That would be clear obstruction . Potus cannot fire or pardon anyone to influence an investigation of themselves. This treason makes watergate look like child’s play.

No, a pardon alone would not constitute obstruction of justice. A pardon does not preclude an investigation or from compelling a person to testify. It only precludes that individual from prosecution of a crime. Even if Trump were to pardon Flynn, there are other ways that they can get the same information out of Flynn. They could still investigate him and put him on the witness stand under the penalty of perjury, which would be a seperate crime requiring an additional pardon. A pardon is nothing more than amnesty, which is granted all the time to key witnesses in an investigation. It's nothing more than a get out of jail free card.

What a pardon would do would be to initiate a serious backlash from R's and D's alike, compel Congress to get into the act and start digging deeper. It would be very unwise for Trump to issue a pardon to Flynn or anyone else linked to the Mueller investigation if his motivation is to cover up his own possible crime(s).

And if you're a big advocate of impeachment, you don't want Mueller to "hurry up." The longer this thing goes on, the worse it is for Trump. Rumors coming out of the Trump camp is that the investigation is about to wrap up by the end of this year or beginning of next.

[Aseahawkfan]

If all they get is a weak procedure charge, that will be a real loss by those looking for a serious case of treason. You could get a weak procedure charge on just about anyone if you really wanted to given the byzantine nature of our law. It's one of the built in ways the law has to control and harass people when necessary.

[RiverDog]

If all they get is a weak procedure charge, that will be a real loss by those looking for a serious case of treason. You could get a weak procedure charge on just about anyone if you really wanted to given the byzantine nature of our law. It's one of the built in ways the law has to control and harass people when necessary.

You can forget about treason unless a war breaks out. Treason almost always requires us to be at war.

[idhawkman]

Mueller's team has finished all their interviews and depositions. They are now just going through the motion of putting the final report together. There will be no other charges coming out of that team. He has lost the confidence of all people because of the blatant bias he allowed in how he staffed his team. Any charges coming out now would be met and challenged in the courts based on that bias. The pooch has been screwed on this for some time now and no one else is going to be bullied into guilty pleas like flynn was. They probably wouldn't even defend themselves at this point if they were to testify before Mueller's team. They'd just plead the 5th and then dare them to sue them in the courts where the defense would destroy the charges based on the documented bias from the Mueller team. The case would be thrown out.

[Hawktawk]

I stand by my prediction he’s got the goods based on publicly known communications and the sweet deals he’s gjving cooperating witnesses. This is headed directly to Trump like a freight train.
He will present a report to Paul Ryan, phoniest of the phonies.
I doubt Ryan will impeach. That’s why he’s rumored to be leaving in 18 because an overwhelming amount of the public disapprove of trump to begin with and I doubt they would stand for it, particularly with the sexual assault story growing as well.

18 would be a bloodbath for the party if they stand with trump.

[idhawkman]

Ryan is not leaving in 18. Those are false and hopeful reports.

18 is going to be net gains for the Repubs in the Senate and many house seats in the traditional blue states like NY and CA will go republican.

You heard it here first.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy

Too bad Trump couldn't have Clintoned it and stopped a special prosecutor from being appointed. Sounds like Clinton had a bunch of people plead the 5th and Janet Reno crushed the investigation into his Chinese support. Clinton was so much better at hiding and manipulating information in his favor. And like Trump, he had plenty of people vote for him even though he was "good" friends with China.

We're basically seeing the Republican version of Bill Clinton. Why do we keep electing moral scum? Lawyers and salesman, one and the same a lot of the time.

[Largent80]

Mueller Ain't Going Away....#maga

https://www.yahoo.com/news/13-russian-n ... itics.html

[RiverDog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy

Too bad Trump couldn't have Clintoned it and stopped a special prosecutor from being appointed. Sounds like Clinton had a bunch of people plead the 5th and Janet Reno crushed the investigation into his Chinese support. Clinton was so much better at hiding and manipulating information in his favor. And like Trump, he had plenty of people vote for him even though he was "good" friends with China.

We're basically seeing the Republican version of Bill Clinton. Why do we keep electing moral scum? Lawyers and salesman, one and the same a lot of the time.

Reno didn't kill that investigation. The Republicans were in control of both houses of Congress so they could have pursued it on their own without a special investigator. What hurt the prosecution of that case was this:

WIth regard to their overall efficacy, investigators are on record as having stated that the Congressional investigations were hamstrung due to lack of co-operation of witnesses. Ninety-four people either refused to be questioned, pled the Fifth Amendment, or left the country altogether.

But you're right, that was an outrageous scandal, one of many in the Clinton administration....the "most ethical administration ever", according to Bill Clinton following his election in 1992.

[Aseahawkfan]

Reno didn't kill that investigation. The Republicans were in control of both houses of Congress so they could have pursued it on their own without a special investigator. What hurt the prosecution of that case was this:

WIth regard to their overall efficacy, investigators are on record as having stated that the Congressional investigations were hamstrung due to lack of co-operation of witnesses. Ninety-four people either refused to be questioned, pled the Fifth Amendment, or left the country altogether.

But you're right, that was an outrageous scandal, one of many in the Clinton administration....the "most ethical administration ever", according to Bill Clinton following his election in 1992.

Reno did no recuse herself. And completely supported the Clintons during that scandal. She killed the investigation and would have acted to protect the Clintons unlike Jeff Sessions. You seem to have forgotten how loyal she was. She very much worked against any investigation during that period.

[Aseahawkfan]

Mueller Ain't Going Away....#maga

https://www.yahoo.com/news/13-russian-n ... itics.html

Russian been meddling for ages and now it's an issue when Trump became president. That is amusing.

You ever watch all those documentaries that are now on Youtube if you want to check them out showing Russian meddling in America since the Cold War. Russian were infiltrating college campuses and general society to push socialist and communist agendas. I'm surprised at how the American people are allowing themselves to be fooled by this ridiculous horsecrap that happens every election and has been happening for years. Once the agenda is complete for whoever is pushing this, likely the Democrats, you'll see the Chinese and Russian continue to interfere in American elections and the American political system. I'm sure the Republicans will remember this quite well just as the Democrats remember Clinton, and we will have a scandal of this nature for a Democratic president as payback. That's the game that people like you are continuing to fall for as you choose a side with both sides not interesting in doing what you would like or support.

[Largent80]

Things are way different now due to the social media out there. If you fart, someone is there to film, listen, and smell it.

It's no surprise that things are different now then putting yourself in the wayback machine.

[Hawktawk]

Its fascinating watching the traitor and his treasonous shills at faux and in the congress freak completely out at the indictment of the russians. The detail in the indictments demonstrates the meticulous detail Mueller is going to.
Rick Gates who spent a year and a half in the Trump campaign/administration is flipped now and has the goods on Manafort. And in these indictments deal strictly about the social media outreach aspect. We're not even talking about the collusion, obstruction which is plain as day and continues every tweet, conspiracy and the money laundering. Its probably illegal to conceal blackmail from a nasty film made with prostitutes in Moscow too( does anyone really believe any of his denials about his out of control sexual impulses at this point ? )
Last weekend's 19 tweet sh#tstorm attacking the FBI,His own NSA director (over russia comments)Oprah, the russia probe and even tying the tragedy in florida to the russia investigation without any tweets directly in support in spite of funerals taking place at the time demonstrates how much this unhinged criminal knows what's coming.

He knows exactly why he will tweet 19 times attacking american law enforcement and not once attacking russia for the greatest cyber attack in US history.

Yeah Donald they are indeed "laughing their ass off" in Russia. Not at the FBI who they respect greatly but at the utterly blackmailed pathetic rube thay have hand picked to do their bidding.
Go Mueller before Trump fires everyone and declares himself king and his loyal supporters justify it all.

The next few days/weeks will be very fascinating..

[idhawkman]

Russian been meddling for ages and now it's an issue when Trump became president. That is amusing.

You ever watch all those documentaries that are now on Youtube if you want to check them out showing Russian meddling in America since the Cold War. Russian were infiltrating college campuses and general society to push socialist and communist agendas. I'm surprised at how the American people are allowing themselves to be fooled by this ridiculous horsecrap that happens every election and has been happening for years. Once the agenda is complete for whoever is pushing this, likely the Democrats, you'll see the Chinese and Russian continue to interfere in American elections and the American political system. I'm sure the Republicans will remember this quite well just as the Democrats remember Clinton, and we will have a scandal of this nature for a Democratic president as payback. That's the game that people like you are continuing to fall for as you choose a side with both sides not interesting in doing what you would like or support.

You've got to be kidding, right Asea? I mean, c'mon man, Obama told Putin to "Cut it out". I'm sure he heeded that stern warning... /sarcasm

[idhawkman]

It is likely that the USA is the greatest perp of election interference in the last few decades. And in Latin America if we didn't like the results (might be a commie) we just helped overthrow.

But that does not mean that we should not defend ourselves.

I'm not sure you know how right you are in this statement. I can't understand why other countries think we are fair game in the same treatment.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure you know how right you are in this statement. I can't understand why other countries think we are fair game in the same treatment.

They been manipulating elections with foreign support for years. You think Clinton took help form a British intelligence agent just this election? I'm wondering if people think Hilary went, "You know, Now would be a good time to pay a British intelligence agent to find dirt on Trump. I've never taken foreign intelligence help to win an election before. I think I'll do this just this time."

Give me a break.

Even back in the Carter-Reagan Era it was rumored Reagan received assistance from the Iranians during the hostage crisis to support Reagan winning office. The Russians and Chinese been meddling for years. Do people really think the Russians just started this election meddling? Are we really that stupid as Americans?

This is all political theater and just more proof that the political machine can incriminate anyone they desire if they don't like them. Neither party likes Trump, so they may be ok bringing the man down. Our nation runs on dirty politics. Always will, always has.

We'll find out if Trump has the juice and smarts to fight this off like Clinton and Reagan or if he ends up like Nixon.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Dos thou go, but no further Mr. Mueller . Paul Manafort will NEVER turn government witness. He knows that if he tries to "give up" Trump or one of his Russian masters that his life and that of his immediate family members will be forfeit. Manafort is well steeped in the "law" of Omerta. He would not be safe in prison he wouldn't even be safe in the witness protection program. The worst for Manafort is that his former masters would make sure that the people he really cared for would bear his punishment.

Same reason that Donald J. Trump, though he is POTUS will NOT DARE cross HIS master, Vlad Putin. A public person, Trump knows that if he EVER stops doing the bidding of Putin he will be a dead man too. That is why he won't criticize Putin and/or Russia, he is a Russian agent just like Paul Manafort is a Russian Agent.

[politicalfootball]

I Think history will place Trump as a good President.

Russian influence in the world has declined ever since they broke up the USSR and imo we should continue our relationship with Ukraine to further erode Russia's power.