Largent80 wrote:I think JS has had the most challenging position ever with what he inherited, and built and maintained. The downfall to me was the stuborness of the FO to move on from Bevell and Cable after SB 49. It was hard to sustain players buying in after that and you heard it and saw it.
That being said for Sherman to rip John and Pete just shows who he really is as a person. My wife is a professor of pshychology and a licensed marriage and personal counseling and she thinks he is a classic narcissist. So does my friend Hawkscanner over at .NET
This is his post copied.......
"This is the first post that I’ve had for awhile, as I’ve really wanted to sit back and evaluate the situation from afar … listen to all the analysis … and watch what actually happens. Now that the dominoes have started to really fall, it appears pretty clear from a big picture standpoint what’s happening.
710 ESPN’s Brock and Salk have been right on the money IMO in their evaluations of this team, where they’re at, and what the Seahawks are doing. And that is --
Whether or not you’re the Seahawks or the Patriots – the same exact thing is true. It doesn’t matter if you’re Pete Carroll (with the Pom Pom Pete Approach) … or Bill Belichick (with the My Way or the Highway Approach) – the brutal truth of the matter is regardless of the coaching approach, the message gets stale after awhile. After awhile, success is just not sustainable with the same group of players. Why? Human nature. After a time, people tend to tune out after they’ve heard the same message over and over again. That's why coaches and managers get fired so often.
Complacency sets in eventually as well IMO. When players get paid, when they are fat and happy, there is a human nature tendency to sit back on your laurels a bit. Carroll and others have said it (in one form or another) many times – We want our players young, poor, and hungry.
And as we all know as well, football is a young man’s game. This sport in particular will beat you up. Father Time is undefeated and football in particular will age you real quick. Carroll is always preaching about wanting guys who are young and flying around.
All of that inevitably leads to what we’ve seen and the moves that have been made thus far. But it goes beyond that IMO. What I’m going to say below is probably going to be highly unpopular for many people … but I honestly do believe that this is another BIG REASON why you’ve seen certain veterans cut loose. I’ll focus my comments specifically on that by discussing Richard Sherman (the biggest example and the one that's most forefront right now).
Let me say right up front that cutting Richard Sherman was the Bar None 100% Right Move for this Team Moving Forward …
Now, I love Richard Sherman the player and who he was on the field for this Seahawks team. I love the talent. Richard Sherman in his prime – I love his ability to be a shutdown corner – a guy who absolutely can change a game single-handedly. I will always be grateful for him and what he did for this Seahawks team. I will forever remember “the Tip” with great giddiness and childlike glee. In a lot of ways, he does and will always have a special place in my heart. He was a fantastic player for us – one of the all time Seahawk greats … AND it was definitely time to part ways with him.
Why?
It’s not just about the money. That’s a given that the Seahawks needed to cut him given how much money he was slated to make. It’s also not just because of his age, his physical status, and his Achilles injury (although that’s a huge reason why, given his age, and contract status they needed to cut him loose). No, there was a much bigger and more important reason (beyond the money, beyond the age, and beyond his health status) of why this was the right move IMO.
Coming into work this morning, I was listening Mike Salk on 710 ESPN going off on Richard Sherman, citing several incidences of him being “a liar” (in his words). He played several clips of past interviews – things that Sherman had said that were on record … that Sherman later said of that he was misquoted on or just flat out denied there was any evidence of him ever saying. [That’s known as Gaslighting by the way] He also played an audio clip of him telling Jim Moore that he was going to ruin his career.
All of that just made me laugh because all of that IMO just so shows who Sherman truly is. I’m a therapist by trade, so I'll share with you guys my perspective from the clinician's chair. Though I’ve always loved Richard Sherman the elite player … I’ve also always recognized that there would eventually come a time that the Seahawks needed to cut bait.
Over time it's become fairly clear that Richard Sherman … is a classic Narcissist. Textbook. Some of you out there who grew up with Narcissistic fathers or mothers know full well the pain of growing up with and dealing with these people. You guys will understand what I’m going to say. In a nutshell, these folks are some of the most difficult to treat and deal with bar none. Growing up in a Narcissistic home … can in a word be a nightmare. You see, as the name implies, Narcissists are all about only 1 person – themselves. They are ever only on 1 team … their own.
Narcissists are quite often highly engaging people. They are often very smart, highly articulate, well spoken, charismatic, confident individuals. They make for great interviews. They can be great leaders (as long as people go along with them). That’s what draws people to them.
However, there is a real serious downside to these kind of people. To say that they are self centered is a massive understatement. “It’s all about me” is the narcissistic person’s mantra. Image is everything. It’s about making the outside of my life look pretty … because on the inside, they feel there is a whole lot of “yuck.” When push comes to shove, Narcissists will choose themselves each and every time. It’s not about what’s best for the team or for others … it’s what best for me. If that’s all that personality type entailed, I’m sure many could overlook that. If you’ve ever lived or worked with a narcissist though … you will know full well just how divisive these people can be.
Narcissists are best of the best manipulators out there that there are. Bar none. They are amazing in their ability to cause division and pit people against one another. Once you really grasp what they are doing … it can be quite stunning to behold.
People have been talking about division in the locker room. There are clubhouse cancers (people have been saying). I would agree with you wholeheartedly and I fully believe Richard Sherman was one of those. You see, Full Blown Narcissists (as long as things are going THEIR WAY) … will be your best buddy. It’s when you’re the man in charge … and they start to disagree with you … that things will start to go awry. They are amazing in their ability to cause issues in a group. They are generally highly intelligent and manipulative to a stunning degree. They are really good at pitting people against one another and stirring up trouble.
You can deal with (put up with this kind of a personality) as long as the positives of what they bring to the table … outweigh all of the other nonsense. What happens when that player is no longer elite though? What happens when they’re NOT the best anymore (but they think they are)? What happens when someone who prides themselves on being the best (believes they are the best, the most beautiful, the most perfect) suddenly starts to realize that fragile fake image they’ve spent their entire existence trying so hard to maintain is starting to melt away? Then, it’s Uh-oh time. You don’t want to be anywhere around that. Let me tell you from experience, there are few things in life less pleasant than an aging Narcissist. That’s when they can start to get real nasty and vindictive. That’s when they become that unbearable cancer that you just can’t deal with anymore. Whether you’re talking Richard Sherman … Terrell Owens … or Deion Sanders … there comes a time when it’s just time to say goodbye.
And If threatened or hurt ... Narcissists will look punish those around them. If you disrespect them or harm them in any way, then Narcissists will tend to lash out. They will look to humiliate you, embarrass you, piss you off, etc. – to make themselves feel good. Why is it (of all teams out there) that Sherman decided to go the 49ers? Why them? The Seahawks most hated division rival, no less. Make no mistake about it folks. That move by Sherman I would say is exactly the kind of vengeance move that a Narcissist would make.
All of that is precisely why this team was in desperate need of cutting bait of guys like this. You can put up with prima donnas as long as they can continue to bring the house down … but when their vocals start to go, it’s time to drop the curtain.
Time for the next act folks – bring on the next generation of younger, cheaper, and highly driven players. The Patriots have gone through this same re-boot process time and time again. As painful as it is to watch for us, I would say that we’re just seeing the normal life cycle of the NFL. I have no idea exactly what to expect from this team (Wins and Losses wise this upcoming year) … but I’m convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what had to happen."
This article is more about Richard’s inability to become a component of the leadership & support Pete than it is about Pete.
Although Sherman's claims about Pete's management style are very believable, coming this close to his abrupt departure makes him look really bad.
mykc14 wrote:I read that article and there’s not much that’s too surprising coming from Shem. My problem is when he talks about things like riding the secondary and stuff like that. He was let go because the Hawks didn’t think he was worth $13 million. If they thought he was still an All pro he would have been retained. He wasn’t the player he was even 2 years ago, before his injury. IMO he didn’t get worse before his injury our pass rush did and PC knows that. Our secondary was dominant because of our pass rush (and ET, IMO). The rest can be interchangeable if you get to the QB.
As far as PCs Message getting stale that’s on the player, IMO. You need to realize that message and that speech aren’t always for you if you have been around the league for 5-6 years and are an all pro. Maybe it’s not always about you, maybe he’s speaking to the 45 guys in the room who haven’t found the success that you have. Take it a step further and why does it have to be about you? You don’t think players with long tenured coaches elsewhere can’t recite their coaches motivational messages? Tom Brady doesn’t know what Belichick is going to say? Hass, Walter Jones, SA, and all of those guys must have been excited to hear new motivational messages from Holmy each year. No, it’s the same everywhere but some players need it to be about them and Sherm is one of those guys.
Clem7 wrote:I am totally on board with the current direction Pete and JS are moving in.
From Kam's hold out (yes that still bothers me), Bennett's Vegas whining, ET's Dallas locker visit and a hold out threat, Sherman's list of bullshot, etc., yes it is time to change.
It was a great run, but the above mentioned as well as some others are not the same people anymore. They are perhaps smarter in one sense, but not as good skill wise. They will not remain healthy like they did during the great run. And having reached the pinnacle and paid accordingly, the emotional immaturity has replaced the hungry prove yourself mettle they once had.
I don't think it will take long for this team to become a force again and willing to go thru the growing pains.
I would like to see ET dispatched as well but I am skeptical they will get the picks they want (similar scenario as last year with Sherman).
As to Pete's message, with the cap in the NFL, these roster churns happen. If Sherman wants to make this the big issue, he's grasping.
I am sorry that these Seahawk greats have become prima donnas. But they have.
NorthHawk wrote:It's the inevitable changing of the guard. It's not a fun time when you have to say goodbye to players that have had so much success, but it's a reality in sports.
I've been on and off the Trade ET wagon, but realistically considering the extensions to both Kam and Sherm and the resulting Cap hits along with the unavoidable injuries, it may be time to get something for ET.
He's only 29, but he's also played the equivalent of almost a full year in the playoffs which would be about 9 seasons. That type of pressure and physical beating will wear on a player more than other games because the intensity of the moment of each playoff game is so high. If I were in JS shoes (and be glad I'm not, Seahawk fans), I would seriously consider taking a 2nd and 3rd this year and maybe another 2nd or 3rd next year.
Clem7 wrote:I am totally on board with the current direction Pete and JS are moving in.
From Kam's hold out (yes that still bothers me), Bennett's Vegas whining, ET's Dallas locker visit and a hold out threat, Sherman's list of bullshot, etc., yes it is time to change.
It was a great run, but the above mentioned as well as some others are not the same people anymore. They are perhaps smarter in one sense, but not as good skill wise. They will not remain healthy like they did during the great run. And having reached the pinnacle and paid accordingly, the emotional immaturity has replaced the hungry prove yourself mettle they once had.
I don't think it will take long for this team to become a force again and willing to go thru the growing pains.
I would like to see ET dispatched as well but I am skeptical they will get the picks they want (similar scenario as last year with Sherman).
As to Pete's message, with the cap in the NFL, these roster churns happen. If Sherman wants to make this the big issue, he's grasping.
I am sorry that these Seahawk greats have become prima donnas. But they have.
idhawkman wrote:I also agree with the poster who said that keeping Richard and Bevel after that season was the wrong move for the team and that may be where the beginning of the end was started.
Hawk Sista wrote:Good thread and good points, all. Very nicely said, Clem.
I don’t know NorthHawk, however, that this is who Sherman has always been. If by that you mean a guy who needs to create a chip on his shoulder to be motivated, then yeah. I agree. And maybe he’s always had the potential, But from my view, it started primarily after the super bowl loss w/ the internal bickering, putting himself before the team, losing his mind after getting beat against Atlanta, yelling at Bevel (w/ faux apology that made it much worse), wanting to be traded last year, the Jim Moore debacle etc... he took ZERO accountability for surrendering 10 points in the 4th against the Pats to put us in a position to need a TD.
Pete’s message was also to let the players be themselves - which Sherm took FULL advantage of. & pete’s message was to put his players in a position to make the most of their skill-set which also benefited Sherman along w/ much more about Prtes’s Style. Sherm just can’t take it when the score/his stat-line don’t reflect his antics and his “I’m the best” Ali imitation. We have seen a few games w/o his peeps in the LOB and he was pointing and blaming anyone but himself. His comments post departure (to Seattle fans, about Pete and pot shots at RW) are further evidence that this was the right move, maybe just a little late.
Futureite wrote:Everything you’re saying about him now has always been true. I get that you guys didn’t like an outsider saying it - especially one from your biggest rival - but it is what it is. Same guy. Just that no one likes the constant trashing of other people and boasting when you’re no longer winning, so then instead of being celebrated he becomes “selfish”. That’s literally the only difference. In fact, if anything he’s calmed it down and matured just a tad over the past yr or so.
c_hawkbob wrote:I don't think Sherm has changed at all, he's a button pusher. Always has been. Now he's pushing our buttons ... ain't no thang.
c_hawkbob wrote:I don't think Sherm has changed at all, he's a button pusher. Always has been. Now he's pushing our buttons ... ain't no thang.
Futureite wrote:Sherman, like Trump, has all the personality traits to be extremely likable.
Futureite wrote:Apologies for the Trump comment. I tried not to comment on any political position he’s taken Per say, and I debated whether to make the analogy in the first place.
Largent80 wrote: Ummm. I hate Rump but rather enjoy Sherm so that was a really weird comparison.
I have attended 2 of his moms birthday parties and have met up with him 3 times, while he is gracious (around his mom) he is another person away from her. He is rather narcissistic so there is a comparison trait. Both of them you either like or hate. I'll never hate Sherm, Rump????....COMPLETELY different opinion.
I'll miss Beverly, and believe me, she is NOT happy about Richard being in SF.
RiverDog wrote:
Let's not drag political figures into a discussion in our football forum as it's going to encourage the thread to get diverted. Surley you can find a different analogy.
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