Largent80 wrote:Lets see, how many good o linemen are available at the end of each draft round?...Yet everyone wants to make the playoffs?
Largent80 wrote:Lets see, how many good o linemen are available at the end of each draft round?...Yet everyone wants to make the playoffs?
c_hawkbob wrote:Pete's only spent a first rounder on an O-linemen twice as a Seahawk.
c_hawkbob wrote:And I'm sorry but even given the 2010 draft I still say we show a lack of serious commitment to the O-line.
HumanCockroach wrote::lol:
Y'all crack me up. Still chasing that tail... truth is, there wasn't these linemen to invest in. Surprises me that after the better part of a DECADE y'all STILL complaining about lack of investment, in lineman, that WEREN'T there to invest in... maybe there's a handful, they missed on, but there is absolutely no glut of quality linemen either in free agency, or the draft, that Seattle repeatedly missed.
It's whining for lack of air, on the moon. Cracks me up. All this time, and y'all still haven't figured it out. Keep insisting they haven't had a lineman play well enough to garner a second contract, yet they all over the NFL, you seem to be confusing Seattle not wanting to overpay for AVERAGE play, with QUALITY play, and lamenting their loss, OR downgrading their performance. Insisting Seattle hasn't had quality starting lineman ( lamenting two that NEVER played an entire season in their career to this day) and professing some sort of a lack of commitment because Seattle refuses to PAY through the nose for shite to average lineman....
Like I said, chasing your tails....
HumanCockroach wrote:Yup, about there... Seattle hasn't hit.... neither has pretty much ANYONE, hence Russell Okung signs LARGEST contract for lineman EVER in NFL history, despite being CUT... Sweezy signs LARGEST contract for Guard at the time, yet BOTH had serious flaws, injury problems etc... not sure what it's going to take for people to figure it out... maybe another couple seasons? Make it a full ten years?
c_hawkbob wrote:He's started every game he's played for them. Hardly zero impact.
Largent80 wrote:Yeah, except HE MISSED THE ENTIRE FIRST YEAR AFTER HE WAS SIGNED at 64 MILLION DOLLARS = ZERO impact, and was graded poorly in ALL the games he played.
Other than that , Sweezy is awesome...
Evidently you missed the first sentence. HE played ZERO as in NONE, NADA NOTHING, snaps after he signed with them. They lost a whole year of guaranteed money. After that, he was middling. Great non re-sign by the Hawks in my estimation.
Largent80 wrote:He played last year and made zero impact.
Oly wrote:He didn't miss the first sentence, he just replied to the second:
He made zero impact in the first year and cost them money, but starting every game last year means he made an impact. Perhaps not worth the contract, but the discussion about value is a different discussion.
HumanCockroach wrote:Nah, I haven't missed anything RD, not many here complaining consistently about the three you mentioned, certainly not the "they don't invest in the line rigamaroll" being discussed WHEN they were HERE.... certainly not the consistent arguments with people ( including you RD) about whether they were NFL starting lineman or not( they were and are just like you and others new whipping boy Ifedi).
I didn't miss anything, y'all just got a case of the forgetsies... I pointed it out last year, and the year before, and the year before.... Y'all complain about the lack of investment, talent, skill , work ethic of pretty much every lineman. You're good or even happy when they leave, then you bemoan them when you find somebody else to whine about...
Like I said, chasing your tails.
I said at the time, Carpenter was good and should be resigned, y'all called me crazy, or only if it was on the cheap, I said Sweezy was good enough to be resigned, y'all claimed he was a project that shouldn't have been playing in the first place.... Okung never played, so good riddance, I argued Unger was a great center with several, before Spencer got dumped, was told I was blind, and that he would never be good, been told I'm blind about Brown just recently, watch....
Scheme don't explain not touching a de in front of you, nor does it explain getting put on your arse. at least once a game...
My track record been pretty damn solid, ain't my problem if y'all don't want to acknowledge that, or listen, or at least consider it. Brown may have another mediocre year in him can't get much worse than last, and stay on the field, regardless, his best, dominant days were 6 years ago... not disrespectful, irrational, idiotic, or foolish to acknowledge that fact.
As for the second contract shield, you guys didn't want them at that cost? Fine. Neither did Seattle, so either you're saying you're as dumb as Seattle FO when it comes to lineman, or as smart. You choose which y'all prefer to be....
For my part, I seem to grasp that paying those guys on a ROOKIE deal, for starting quality play was worth it, overpaying for same, is moronic. Not my issue you have difficulty grasping that concept.... just because an accord runs good and gets the job done, doesn't mean you pay a Lamborghini price for it. You're arguing a lack of evaluation, I would say that's EXCELLENT evaluation. People get drafted on potential and promise, they get PAID on production. None listed produced at the level Seattle deemed worthy of the price tag... GOOD EVALUATION.
HumanCockroach wrote:I don't know RD, more time, and more hits to the QB? You figure it out, I don't care what you feel about it, Wilson holds the ball to long, luckily, instead of having to continue to insist it's happening, most not blinded by Wilson worship, are seeing it ( and it only took 2+ seasons) and are calling him on it. Not just fans ( many here who refused to acknowledge it then) but media, evaluators, COACHES.... as I insisted then, I don't absolve play, but I don't ignore what's happening either. I certainly don't cling to scapegoats, whether it be the line, the FG kicker or some other whipping boy. Pointless to...
HumanCockroach wrote:And please pre tell... cite specific blown calls on what I've said... not some general claim about your evaluation of a young developing line, but please, explain which lineman I lauded, that I was completely off base on... hell. List them all, lineman or not. Thing is, I don't go all in on ANY player, either good or bad. Also not my thing. That's a you deal.
In fact the ONLY players I've ever done that on early, was Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, and Cortez Kennedy, and Kenny Easley. They worked out ok I suppose. Didn't do it on Kam, Wilson, Thomas, Baldwin, Jones, Warner, Lynch, Largent ( to young to do so).... so I guess you can cite those as failures
mykc14 wrote:Honestly I haven't found too many Wilson worshipers here. Very few give him a pass when he has poor games. I am one of those who consistently defends him against what I deem as unfair criticism. At the same time I feel like I criticize him when it is warranted. He absolutely holds onto the ball too long. There is no doubt about that. My question has always been is it due to scheme (clearly early in his career the offensive plan was to pound the ball and then use play action to create 'explosive plays,' something PC LOVES). Wilson CLEARLY progression skips at times (looks past what seems like it should be his first progression on a quick completion for a bigger play). Wilson has also been hammered with the idea that he can't turn the ball over, something that certainly is a major aspect of PC's offensive philosophy. IMO, this causes him to be tentative at times. Bevell's route concepts have been called unimaginative and simple by multiple analysts. This may create a situation in which DB's are jumping routes causing Wilson to hold onto the ball.
With all of that being said we saw a glimpse of what Wilson can do when offensive philosophy and his decisions combine to form a quick hitting pass first offense. At the end of 2015 RW was as good as any QB has every been. The offense clearly looked different than it ever has in his time here. It was pass first. It was quick and really resembled a spread west coast scheme. I was excited to see what it would look like in 2016. Unfortunately, the O looked like it had for most of RW's career (if you remember that game the O looked really bad, like it has so many times since then. It was the game Suh stepped on his ankle). As the season progressed RW played hurt and the OL played terrible. The offense never even closely resembled what it did towards the end of 2015. Again, why? Was it RW progression skipping? Was it the offensive philosophy (run first and hit 'explosive plays')? Did opposing defenses figure out Bevell's simple route concepts (or did those have to be simple because RW has trouble seeing or reading D's?)? Was our OL play so bad that the O never had a chance?
I'm more than willing to say RW should be putting up better numbers and playing better overall, I just question what the root cause is. I certainly can be his issue but it also could be any number of other issues. Unfortunately, I think we dropped the ball with our OC hire (I really hope I am wrong). RW is a unique QB who would thrive with a forward thinking OC. PC's offensive philosophy limits what we will ever be able to see from him, IMO.
HumanCockroach wrote:I don't run, or hide River. You got an over inflated sense of importance in my life. I was tired of rehashing it senselessly over, and over again. So I stopped. You should read the last part of that post again. Not really something I think worth my time. Obviously that WASN'T your personal position, as you continue to cite that discussion, which never was grasped by you and STILL to this day hasn't been.
Never cited greatness, never cited amazing play, never proved anything was "fixed" because it seems, unlike you, I don't believe there is such a thing as "finished" work, ever. Don't feel that way about any unit, player, or coach. There is no complete, or level where you say "done " nothing else needed.
I pointed out Wilson's issues then, only to receive constant backlash. Have you figured it out yet? The rest seem to have, but I'm not entirely sure you're there yet. Maybe I'll give it another year or two, so you can catch up.
Regardless, you can think I'm a coward, or weak willed, or whatever other thing you feel you want to label me, truth is, I don't need this forum, to discuss the Hawks, and I certainly could care less how you feel about my opinion, belief, what I see, or discuss here or anywhere else. My understanding of football has always been there's better play, or better results that can be garnered at EVERY position, always. That said, I also seemingly have the ability to grasp, expectations for that ultimate goal, can and should be tempered with realistic expectations and it is possible to be satisfied with where you're at, WITHOUT being overly critical because of where you WANT to be.
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