Seahawks4Ever wrote:Idiot democrats get played like a fiddle and shut down the government. This is exactly what D.J.T. wanted, and he will let them take the heat, rightfully so. This was about the dumbest move Shumer has ever pulled and he will regret it, he WILL regret it.
jshawaii22 wrote:Watching FOX again are you? At least spit out your version of the 'truth' -- come on... It's Trumps one-year anniversary today. Sing him some praise.
"Clowns to the left of me and Jokers to the right, and here I am, stuck in the middle with you" -- I thank Jesus he put me in Hawaii and about as far away from DC as you can get.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Get back to me when it's real and lasts longer than a few days. This is nothing but grandstanding by both parties as they engage in idiot antics to control the government.
Hawktawk wrote:Again you all get sucked into the alternative universe of trump. Coming out of the fire and fury book he calls a televised meeting with senators and says he weill sign whatever they can come up with and do it”with love”.
5 days later he expresses agreement with the deal agreed upon by both parties . 2 hours later after Kelly the racist chief of staff along with hawrd liners in the senate flip this empty suit 180 he makes openly racist comments while blowing up the deal 80% of voters including a majority of republicans favor. 2 days later he called Durbin and graham liars and 3 republican Senators and the Homeland security chief told bald faced lies , she was under oath.
And now the dreamers he loved 2 weeks ago are illegal aliens, criminals and rapists . He’s up at 3 am on twitter attacking people he has to convince.what a brilliant deal maker![]()
The lack of political IQ of the American voter is mind boggling .its how we got Killary vs Trump in the first place.
burrrton wrote:Sounds like it's reopening today.
jshawaii22 wrote:
Watching FOX again are you? At least spit out your version of the 'truth' -- come on... It's Trumps one-year anniversary today. Sing him some praise.
"Clowns to the left of me and Jokers to the right, and here I am, stuck in the middle with you" -- I thank Jesus he put me in Hawaii and about as far away from DC as you can get.
Aseahawkfan wrote:
Seahawks4ever a Fox News watcher? He got banned a while ago for hating Trump Supporters too much.
Maybe he is starting to see the whole business between these scumbag politicians is all garbage. Schumer getting calls from the big tech companies worried about losing their cheap labor supply with their H1B visas if DACA gets trashed.
idhawkman wrote:This has been a huge debacle that most people don't know about. Clinton approved of NAFTA because we were going to replace the lower paying manufacturing jobs with higher paying technology jobs. but then he opened up so many H1B Visas to China, India, Israel, etc. that they came in and learned all our technology and took it back to their countries and outsource the work now for pennies on the dollar. What a debacle this has been.
Now, they teach the technology in their coutnries and export their workers here because our big corporations say they can't find enough qualified workers here. Talk about a double whammy!!!
Largent80 wrote:Yup, plenty of lawnmowing and dishwashing jobs available. Go get one everyone. And if you like fruit or vegetables, after all the migrants are gone, there will be plenty of "come pick em" places available. You just gotta travel to the Salinas valley to get your own lettuce.
IMO with water becoming such an issue in major US agricultural areas such as California, we are going to have to depend more and more on foreign trade to meet an ever increasing demand of healthy fruits and veggies in this country. This would seem to me to be a viable solution to the immigration issue in this country.
c_hawkbob wrote:The dems were idiots for having done this at this time, all they accomplished was to show the president their hand; that he’s got his wall (that Mexico was never going to pay for) and all it’s going to cost is DACA, which was always going to happen anyway.
c_hawkbob wrote:The dems were idiots for having done this at this time, all they accomplished was to show the president their hand; that he’s got his wall (that Mexico was never going to pay for) and all it’s going to cost is DACA, which was always going to happen anyway.
RiverDog wrote:
Not only that, the Dems lost the PR battle, too, and gave the R's some good sound bites for the upcoming mid terms, such as "care more about people in this country illegally than they do about our military." They really need to think of finding a leader other than Chuck Schumer. He's the one that led them over the cliff on this one.
The Dems might as well give in on the wall because it's not going to happen anyway, at least not along the entire length of the border. They are already having trouble finding potential bidders due to the politics involved. The very first thing a Democratic congress will do will be to repeal funding for it. Even conservatives that might otherwise be in favor of it will balk at the cost.
And you're right, although it's likely to be modified, DACA is here to stay. I saw a poll showing that 87% of Americans, including 79% of Republicans, are in favor of amnesty for DACA recipients. You can't get 87% of Americans to agree on the location of the Pacific Ocean.
idhawkman wrote:I also saw a poll that shows 60+% want to reduce current levels of legal immigration and over 70% want the border wall fully funded. The dems were just on the wrong side of this fight from the beginning.
RiverDog wrote:
You have?
Here's one done by Rasmussen from July of 2017:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... order_wall
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 37% of Likely U.S. Voters believe the United States should build a wall along the Mexican border to help stop illegal immigration. Fifty-six percent (56%) disagree.
The House last week approved $1.6 billion in spending for President Trump’s proposed wall along the Mexican border, but with illegal immigration at the Mexican border at a 17-year low, most voters don’t want it anymore.
The border wall will never get built. Even if Trump is successful in turning the first shovel of dirt, it would be a decades long government-run project similar to the Alaska Pipeline and the ISS that would be subject to future funding requests and the ever changing political winds. There will be fiscal conservatives that will balk at the cost. Already there are potential contractors that are being scared away from bidding on it by the politics of being associated with the project, pressure that would only mount when and if construction actually begins.
Anyone that thinks that Mexico is going to participate in the funding of it needs to their heads examined. And if illegal traffic across the border is already at a 17 year low, is there really a need for it, or are there other cheaper, less obtrusive alternatives to achieve the same goal?
A new left-leaning poll proves the point President Donald Trump made at his State of the Union address: “Americans are dreamers, too.”
According to a Harvard University-Harris Poll, a majority of Americans actually agree with not only one but all of Trump’s immigration proposals.
A stunning 65 percent of Americans support a DACA deal that ends chain migration, eliminates the random visa lottery and secures the border with a wall. Only 35 percent of Americans did not agree.
Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the visa lottery which allows immigrants to be picked at random for entry into the country.
In fact, nearly 80 percent of Americans believe that immigration should be based on merit and skills, not just family ties.
Even more interesting, the poll shows that 60 percent of Americans believe that even if dreamers are allowed to stay, they should not be given preference to bring relatives to the United States.
When faced with a choice, nearly 80 percent want secure borders rather than open borders.
Specifically, 61 percent think that current border security is inadequate, and more than half of Americans — 54 percent — support a physical barrier along the southern U.S. border. This is particularly bad news for democrats such as Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) who recently reneged on funding the border wall.
The shocking poll underscores the progress Trump has made in his push for immigration reform. When he launched his bid for president, a Pew Research Center pollshowed that only 46 percent of Americans supported a border wall. In 2016, The Washington Post even poked fun at Trump for actually making the border wall less popular at just 36 percent but no that is no longer the case, either. The rise in poll numbers shows Trump’s persistence on the issue finally pays dividends.
The recent Harvard-Harris poll showing Americans’ shifting view is devastating for democrats during a time when they are pushing full amnesty for dreamers, while not giving any ground on funding a wall, improving border security, or reforming other immigration policies. Even Mark Penn, longtime democratic pollster and senior adviser to Bill and Hillary Clinton, recently admitted that the time has come for democrats to face the music and make a deal.
Finally, what is most surprising about the poll is the fact that it was taken before last week’s State of the Union address during which Americans had the opportunity to meet — via their televisions — families of victims killed at the hands of illegal immigrants.
Those heart-wrenching stories included two teenage girls killed at the hands of illegal immigrant MS-13 gang members on Long Island. It would be interesting to see if support for border security is even higher now in the light of the “Trump bump”that the president received from his heartfelt address.
The bottom line is Americans agree with Trump’s immigration policies, and it does not bode well for democrats who appear to either be tone deaf on the matter, blinded by their open-borders worldview that continues to protect illegals ahead of American citizens, or they intentionally want to keep the issue boiling in advance of the 2018 midterm elections.
The new polls illustrate that Americans feel as Trump feels — that Americans are “Dreamers” in our own right, and that we dream of a nation in which our children can be safe from predatory gang violence, illegal activity and that our children should be afforded the right to live long enough to fulfill their dreams, too.
Democrats’ failure to understand this basic premise just as their 15-point lead collapsed this week to just two points, may prove to be fatal for them in the 2018 midterm elections.
Jen Kerns served as the spokeswoman for the California Republican Party. A two-time appointee of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, she went on to serve as spokeswoman and communications director for the victorious Prop. 8 campaign in California, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, Americans for Prosperity in California, and numerous rare successful Statewide races as a Republican press secretary. She departed California at the end of 2012 over public safety concerns.
idhawkman wrote:Well I guess that poll is in contradiction to the latest Harvard Harris poll that has those numbers reversed. Just google immigration poll and you'll see all kinds of headlines saying "bad news for democrats" on them.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Hard to say. I guess we'll see in future elections. I would say the divide over immigration is a lot closer than polls say it is with lots of flip-flopping. I consider my viewpoint. I could not participate in deporting children brought here early because I wouldn't feel good about it. At the same time I'm wondering how they made it in and stayed 20 years to begin with. I don't consider it a good thing that it is so easy to sneak into this nation and stay. I talked with one liberal man that didn't think we needed borders, a completely unrealistic viewpoint given the current state of the world. I do feel the government has a responsibility to secure our borders against illegal immigration, but how to go about it when state governments like ours in Washington don't believe in border security and are working against the Federal Government to allow undocumented, illegal immigrants to stay in the nation. It's a real divide on where to draw the line.
RiverDog wrote:Unless and until the border wall has a consistent, overwhelming majority in favor of it, it's not getting built, at least not in its entirety. Even if there was clear, overwhelming support for it, big ticket government construction projects take decades to get completed, so no way will that such a highly politicized, multi billion dollar project survive the 8 or 10 Congresses and 2 or 3 more Administrations that it's going to take to see the project through. They'll have legal challenges, environmental challenges, and fiscal challenges to contend with, let alone the ever changing political winds it would have to endure.
That's why if I'm the Dems, I'd use it as a bargaining chip: Let Trump have his wall if he compromises on DACA. No sense fighting over something that's not going to happen anyway.
RiverDog wrote:
I have seen polls where a majority of Americans are against a lottery system favor a merit based system, of which I agree with. Same goes with "chain" migrations, where people are admitted for no other reason than they have family that is already in the country. Once again, that's an aspect of Trump's plan that I happen to agree with.
And I've seen polls that indicate a majority desire for a more thorough vetting process, a majority being against amnesty, and so on.
But on the other hand, I've seen polls where 80%+ of Americans want those law abiding illegals that have been in the country for a period of time be provided with a viable pathway to citizenship and legal status rather than the mass deportations that Trump advocates.
And despite what Idhawk claims, most polls indicate that a clear majority of Americans are against a 2,000 mile long border wall.
I am glad that Trump has brought the immigration issue up for national debate as I think it's long overdue. But what I don't like about him is that he's framed that debate in an atmosphere of fear and prejudice, of arrogance and intolerance. His "Mexico is going to pay for it" was completely unnecessary and unrealistic, his campaign against Muslims a slap in the face millions of American Muslims, his characterizations of illegals as being a bunch of drug running thugs an insult to Hispanics, and so on, is what's divided this country and forced people to become defensive and caused a good many people to not trust anything Trump says on the issue and questio his motives
idhawkman wrote:I'm disappointed in you adopting what the left has fed you on his stances. He did not divide this country. Its been divided for a while now and it was driven to extremes under Obama. Just because Trump shines light on the dark sides of what this government has been doing doesn't make him the divider. I believe in the U.S. and that our citizenship is sacred and should not be given away cheaply.
This was written with a picture of multiple DACA protests where the protesters were waiving the Mexican flag and it stated: "how can it be cruel to send people back to the country that they so proudly wave?"
idhawkman wrote:River this (Trump's plan for mass deportations) is just plain disingenuous. He is offering a path to citizenship along with supporting two more "pillars" you already agree with. What seems to be stopping you is the wall but I wonder why that would be stopping you. If you believe that the Lottery and chain migration should be curbed then why would you support those same people strolling across our border? Why would you want the drugs to continue to flood across our border?
Also, on the "most polls" I'm sure you can not claim that the "HARVARD HARRIS poll is conservative". Add in the clearly biased polls from the last election that said Trump only had a 7% chance of winning and you would be hard pressed to put any faith in "most polls".
Send the border patrol and military to secure the border.
RiverDog wrote:The caravan from Honduras does not change my opinion about Trump's border wall one little bit. As ASF says, caravans are easy to stop. You don't need a wall to stop them. I don't have a problem sending some military support if the border patrol requests it, but leave it to Trump to send them whether or not they're needed simply to rally his base.
I don't know who benefits politically over the caravan happening during an election cycle, but one thing is for sure: Trump's assertation that the Dems are behind it is absurd and completely baseless. It's a hot button issue for Trump's supporters and could rally his base like very few issues could, so I can't believe that any of his opponents would be stupid enough to support it knowing that it could very well backfire on them.
idhawkman wrote:The caravan from Honduras does not change my opinion about Trump's border wall one little bit. As ASF says, caravans are easy to stop. You don't need a wall to stop them. I don't have a problem sending some military support if the border patrol requests it, [b]but leave it to Trump to send them whether or not they're needed simply to rally his base.
I don't know who benefits politically over the caravan happening during an election cycle, but one thing is for sure: Trump's assertation that the Dems are behind it is absurd and completely baseless. It's a hot button issue for Trump's supporters and could rally his base like very few issues could, so I can't believe that any of his opponents would be stupid enough to support it knowing that it could very well backfire on them.
See, this is just disengenuous on your part River. How the heck do you know what was requested of Trump or not? Yet you spew forth a bunch of tripe that you THINK is right. Next you'll be saying that Trump lied about being asked to send troops. Its as bad as the circular reporting that coroberated the DOJ/FBI Russian probe.
RiverDog wrote:Disingenuous my ass! Do you understand what the phrase "Leave it to..." means when used in that context? It doesn't mean that I think that he did, it simply means that I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
idhawkman wrote:My sincere apologies then River. I read it the other way it could have been taken since you added the "to rally his base" part.
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