Hawks vs carolina

[c_hawkbob]

The raw numbers aren't what made that an exceptional game from Russ, it was the situational greatness; that TD on 4th & 3 and that last pass to put us in position to win it at the end, those are the ones that set this game apart from your list. And the fact that it's become expected of him is what makes him a great player.

[RiverDog]

The raw numbers aren't what made that an exceptional game from Russ, it was the situational greatness; that TD on 4th & 3 and that last pass to put us in position to win it at the end, those are the ones that set this game apart from your list. And the fact that it's become expected of him is what makes him a great player.

I can agree with most of that, especially the part about Russell being a great player.

The 4-and-3 35 yard TD pass was a great play at a critical moment. I question the wisdom of throwing a 50/50 pass 20 yards downfield in that situation, but I'm not complaining. Keep in mind that our slow start somewhat set up the late game heroics.

As far as those plays "seperating" him from the others on the list? I guess it depends on how you look at it. Rivers had a phenomenal performance, Andrew Luck has transformed his team from doghouse to playoff contender, and Kirk Cousins came up big time in critical matchup with the Packers, but if the standard is clutch and a pivotal game, I can be talked into your POV.

You going to dip your toe into the Quarterback Play thread? In all honestly, I respect your opinions and would love to hear your take.

[HumanCockroach]

Seems to fluctuate depending on what assertation is trying to be trumpeted. Wilson hasn't been winning tons of games the last 3 seasons in the 4th quarter, and honestly, is Seattle trailing against GB and Carolina if Wilson makes a basic NFL throw? Who knows honestly, but I do know, that there's quite a bit of hypocracy on this board when it comes to him.

[RiverDog]

Seems to fluctuate depending on what assertation is trying to be trumpeted. Wilson hasn't been winning tons of games the last 3 seasons in the 4th quarter, and honestly, is Seattle trailing against GB and Carolina if Wilson makes a basic NFL throw? Who knows honestly, but I do know, that there's quite a bit of hypocracy on this board when it comes to him.

Boy, you got that right. I seem to remember a certain poster never, ever giving Matt Hasselbeck a break, yet when it comes to Russell...

But I don't think us Hawk fans are alone in that regard when it comes to their starting QB. Just think what it would be like if we had a real QB controversy, like Fitzpatrick vs. Winston in Tampa Bay or Wentz vs. Foles in Philly.

[Anthony]

I'll move off of solid if you'll move off of Breesian. And by every standard? How about we use some stats from Week 12 as a standard:

Russell Wilson 22-31, 339, 2 TD

Dak Prescott 22-31, 289, 2 TD's

Matt Ryan, 35-47, 377, 2 TD's

Baker Mayfield, 19-26, 258, 4 TD's

Jameis Winston, 29-38, 312, 2 TD's

Phillip Rivers, 28-29, 259, 3 TD's

Ben Worthlessburger, 41-56, 462, 1 TD

Andrew Luck, 30-37, 343, 3 TD's

Kirk Cousins, 29-38, 342, 3 TD's

Marcus Mariota, 22-23, 303, 2 TD's

We can argue about semantics all we want, but the point that I am trying to make, that you and some of the others keep missing, is that at least statistically and relative to other quarterbacking performances around the league, Russell's performance last Sunday was not exceptional. I invite you to weigh in on my Quarterback Play thread.

And before you say it, I'm not accepting Anthony's stats monkey crown!

It is exceptional when taken in context we are a running team, that all of a sudden could not run. WhT ai also find interesting is that you never used this argument before but now that it seems to help you, you do Hmm. That said you have 10 QBs that means 22 others did not that says it is still a really exceptional thing. In addition, I find it interesting you leave out the fact Ryan and LUck had Ints something the others did not. That said as I said to another you can believe what you want, but his performance this past week was exceptional by every standard in the NFL, the fact you seem to feel the need to come up with excuses to knock it down says a lot about you, which puts you in the sad category. So I am sorry for you.

[Anthony]

Seems to fluctuate depending on what assertation is trying to be trumpeted. Wilson hasn't been winning tons of games the last 3 seasons in the 4th quarter, and honestly, is Seattle trailing against GB and Carolina if Wilson makes a basic NFL throw? Who knows honestly, but I do know, that there's quite a bit of hypocracy on this board when it comes to him.

Says the king of hypocrisy. now not many in the 4th qtr

Well we beat
the Cardinals in the 4th qtr on a FG at the end so thats 1
We beat GB in the 4th qtr TD pass so thats 2
And now carolina so that is 3 sure seems when half your wins come in the 4th qtr your winning games in tthe 4th qtr. And that is just this year alone
But hey let's not let facts get int he way, shall we?

So sad I am sorry for you.

[RiverDog]

We can argue about semantics all we want, but the point that I am trying to make, that you and some of the others keep missing, is that at least statistically and relative to other quarterbacking performances around the league, Russell's performance last Sunday was not exceptional.

It is exceptional when taken in context we are a running team, that all of a sudden could not run. WhT ai also find interesting is that you never used this argument before but now that it seems to help you, you do Hmm. That said you have 10 QBs that means 22 others did not that says it is still a really exceptional thing. In addition, I find it interesting you leave out the fact Ryan and LUck had Ints something the others did not. That said as I said to another you can believe what you want, but his performance this past week was exceptional by every standard in the NFL, the fact you seem to feel the need to come up with excuses to knock it down says a lot about you, which puts you in the sad category. So I am sorry for you.

You missed 3 key words in my post, so I thought I'd make them a little larger and bolder for you. If you want to add INT's to them, then fine, go for it. While you're at it, you might as well as add QB rating, too. All I did was take a quick and dirty look at the highlights as listed in the ESPN score summaries from Week 12, and they had just the 3 stats I included.

But please, spare me your man crush spin. The discussion was purely statistical, and I stand by my conclusion: In light of other QB performances around the league, Russell's statistical performance Sunday was not exceptional.

[Anthony]

You missed 3 key words in my post, so I thought I'd make them a little larger and bolder for you. If you want to add INT's to them, then fine, go for it. While you're at it, you might as well as add QB rating, too. All I did was take a quick and dirty look at the highlights as listed in the ESPN score summaries from Week 12, and they had just the 3 stats I included.

But please, spare me your man crush spin. The discussion was purely statistical, and I stand by my conclusion: In light of other QB performances around the league, Russell's statistical performance Sunday was not exceptional.

I did not miss it, I think it is an excuse to allow you to do what you do, downplay what he did. You can stand by your conclusion, but that does not make you right, it just means as you always do you fond some BS reason to downplay his performance. Your excuse enow is because 10 of 32 Qbs did something great. That just your newest excuse. I get it, I don't even blame you for trying it. Too bad, it is just an excuse. I could even go further and say ok but we are talking over 300 yards, 2 tds, and no INTs and all of a sudden that list gets smaller, to in fact now 5 so I guess since 5 of 32 did it it is no big deal too. You see your excuse is really worthless. By any standard what Wilson did was great and anyway you try to downplay is just an excuse. FYI how can Wilson be up for Air player of the week if what he did was not great HMM. Because it was. Again I am sorry for you, I will pray for you too.

[HumanCockroach]

Nah, somebody again doesn't understand a word. Hypocracy would be blaming a lineman for getting pushed back into a QB that should have delivered the ball before it ever happened to excuse that inability to deliver the ball in a timely fashion, and then despite still having time, and a wide open receiver in the endzone, airmailed a basic NFL throw, leaving points on the field for the second week in a row, and endangering another players health.

That's hypocracy big guy. How about everytime Wilson is pressured, ignoring that he's held the ball to long, and is sacked because of it? Or when he runs into sacks? How about the sh#tshow at the end of the half last week, taking a sack, costing Seattle its last timeout, then proceeding to throw a forward lateral instead of running out of bounds? Effectively chewing up all of Seattle's time single handedly? How about his intentional grounding penalties that are common, after aimlessly running around?

There's issues with ALL players, hypocracy would be chastising and blaming all of them guilty or not, and never holding Wilson accountable. Hypocracy would be claiming Wilson doesn't hold the ball to long, and doesn't struggle early in games for pretty much the entirety of his career. That my sad, stupid little jock boy friend is hypocracy, not pointing out those things.

[Anthony]

Nah, somebody again doesn't understand a word. Hypocracy would be blaming a lineman for getting pushed back into a QB that should have delivered the ball before it ever happened to excuse that inability to deliver the ball in a timely fashion, and then despite still having time, and a wide open receiver in the endzone, airmailed a basic NFL throw, leaving points on the field for the second week in a row, and endangering another players health.

That's hypocracy big guy. How about everytime Wilson is pressured, ignoring that he's held the ball to long, and is sacked because of it? Or when he runs into sacks? How about the sh#tshow at the end of the half last week, taking a sack, costing Seattle its last timeout, then proceeding to throw a forward lateral instead of running out of bounds? Effectively chewing up all of Seattle's time single handedly? How about his intentional grounding penalties that are common, after aimlessly running around?

There's issues with ALL players, hypocracy would be chastising and blaming all of them guilty or not, and never holding Wilson accountable. Hypocracy would be claiming Wilson doesn't hold the ball to long, and doesn't struggle easily in games for pretty much the entirety of his career. That my sad, stupid little jock boy friend is hypocracy, not pointing out those things.

No excuses are what you use to downplay what Wilson and others do. Again nothing but your worthless slanted opinion. Pathetic and sad.

[HumanCockroach]

Wahhh.... wahhhh....wahhhhh..... I hold Wilson to the SAME standard I hold every player. Doesn't bother me to do so. He isn't the second coming, he's a football player.

[Anthony]

Wahhh.... wahhhh....wahhhhh..... I hold Wilson to the SAME standard I hold every player. Doesn't bother me to do so. He isn't the second coming, he's a football player.

Hey your on a role another worthless post, so sad.

[idhawkman]

The raw numbers aren't what made that an exceptional game from Russ, it was the situational greatness; that TD on 4th & 3 and that last pass to put us in position to win it at the end, those are the ones that set this game apart from your list. And the fact that it's become expected of him is what makes him a great player.

Your two examples are great because the point out the issue that frustrates me about him the most. The 4th and 3 TD pass was on the money. No where else to put that pass for it to be a TD. The pass to Lockett to setup the game winning FG was underthrown. Lockett would have had a TD if RW had thrown that one the same as the 4th and 3 pass. Instead, Lockett had to wait on the pass and then get tackled at the 10. In the overall scheme of things, we won on a game winning FG but we should have won on the Lockett TD :50 earlier.

[NorthHawk]

That may have been a blessing in disguise because it didn't leave the Panthers any time to mount any type of comeback.

[burrrton]

That may have been a blessing in disguise because it didn't leave the Panthers any time to mount any type of comeback.

I also think (though I don't know for sure) Wilson is frequently careful not to get too cute when staring at sure-ish receptions. If the receiver is WIIIIIIDE open, better to take the sure 50-yard completion than try to throw a perfect ball and risk the overthrow.

Yeah, perfect throws 100% of the time would be nice, but since that doesn't happen with *anybody*, I'm not going to get frustrated with a slightly under-thrown ball when it's clear he can get away with it.

[idhawkman]

That may have been a blessing in disguise because it didn't leave the Panthers any time to mount any type of comeback.

True, and we all know that Pete would have went into the "Prevent the win" defense for that :50, but in years past we used to like our defense on the field to end the game. I would have rather seen us up by 7 and them trying to tie us to take us to overtime in :50 than to rely on a FG knowing how bad the FG kicking has been in the NFL over the past year or two.

As I pointed out in other threads or maybe even earlier in this one, Underthrows are what get receivers injured. E.g. Jimmy Graham's knee, Lockett's leg, etc.

[Anthony]

Your two examples are great because the point out the issue that frustrates me about him the most. The 4th and 3 TD pass was on the money. No where else to put that pass for it to be a TD. The pass to Lockett to setup the game winning FG was underthrown. Lockett would have had a TD if RW had thrown that one the same as the 4th and 3 pass. Instead, Lockett had to wait on the pass and then get tackled at the 10. In the overall scheme of things, we won on a game winning FG but we should have won on the Lockett TD :50 earlier.

You know it is funny I kind of agree with you if he through it a little further maybe it is a TD, or maybe it becomes overthrown why take a chance, take the sure 3pts to win. The pass to more we need 2 scores to win. I get what you are saying I guess I can understand why he through it that way, and moreover I have seen, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and all the top QBs do it, so I am less worried about it. SOme here don't watch enough football to realize all QB's do this at times, they just think Wilson is the only one so to them it is a big deal.

[Anthony]

I also think (though I don't know for sure) Wilson is frequently careful not to get too cute when staring at sure-ish receptions. If the receiver is WIIIIIIDE open, better to take the sure 50-yard completion than try to throw a perfect ball and risk the overthrow.

Yeah, perfect throws 100% of the time would be nice, but since that doesn't happen with *anybody*, I'm not going to get frustrated with a slightly under-thrown ball when it's clear he can get away with it.

Great post and spot on

[RiverDog]

I also think (though I don't know for sure) Wilson is frequently careful not to get too cute when staring at sure-ish receptions. If the receiver is WIIIIIIDE open, better to take the sure 50-yard completion than try to throw a perfect ball and risk the overthrow.

Yeah, perfect throws 100% of the time would be nice, but since that doesn't happen with *anybody*, I'm not going to get frustrated with a slightly under-thrown ball when it's clear he can get away with it.

I don't know if that's what was going through Russell's mind at the time or if he just plain underthrew the receiver, but you're absolutely right, you don't want to overthrow a receiver that is behind the entire secondary and already has 10 or 15 yards of green between him and the nearest DB.

There's also times when a defender has his back turned that quarterbacks will intentionally underthrow a pass and force the receiver to come back for it, ie throw him open, but once again, it's impossible to tell whether or not that's what the QB's intent was.

[HumanCockroach]

I wonder what's the excuse for all the early game under throws, over throws that costs Seattle points and first downs?

Don't want to make it to easy? Lmfao.... I've seen Wilson intentionally ground the ball multiple times every season, losing crucial yardage, a down, and not saving a hit on him but am to believe in that specific fraction of a second( as clearly that hasn't happened regularly) I'm supposed to believe, he knew he needed to under throw the ball ( even though, more often than not it gives the DB the chance to recover and knock the ball away, as has happened DOZENS upon DOZENS of times to Wilson) to win the game..... yeah, sure, ya bet ya.... smh.

And I most certainly have seen it amongst elite QBs... when an underthrown actually creates the room to complete the pass, or, if it's simply a poor throw.... QBs don't attempt to be "off target" sometimes it's simply a bad throw. Some it seems struggle with that idea.... never a good idea to avoid a sure TD, ever, unless it's a player in POSSESSION of the ball already, not something still in question...

[Anthony]

:lol:

I wonder what's the excuse for all the early game under throws, over throws that costs Seattle points and first downs?

Don't want to make it to easy? Lmfao.... I've seen Wilson intentionally ground the ball multiple times every season, losing crucial yardage, a down, and not saving a hit on him but am to believe in that specific fraction of a second( as clearly that hasn't happened regularly) I'm supposed to believe, he knew he needed to under throw the ball ( even though, more often than not it gives the DB the chance to recover and knock the ball away, as has happened DOZENS upon DOZENS of times to Wilson) to win the game..... yeah, sure, ya bet ya.... smh.

And I most certainly have seen it amongst elite QBs... when an underthrown actually creates the room to complete the pass, or, if it's simply a poor throw.... QBs don't attempt to be "off target" sometimes it's simply a bad throw. Some it seems struggle with that idea.... never a good idea to avoid a sure TD, ever, unless it's a player in POSSESSION of the ball already, not something still in question...

LOL the only excuse is your excuse for thinking you're a real fan or even understand football all you know is "the truth is not the truth and a fact is not a fact" Pathetic. The only struggle we have is why you so pathetic. Thanks for the laugh Rudi J.

[HumanCockroach]

Don't care, the asking for excuses was facetious, I don't really need them.... because.... well.... I don't give two turtle sh#ts.

Hence, save those excuses for some other day jock boy.

[burrrton]

QBs don't attempt to be "off target" sometimes it's simply a bad throw.

Yes. And sometimes it's simply a *careful* throw. If this seems preposterous to you, play more sports.

[idhawkman]

Yes. And sometimes it's simply a *careful* throw. If this seems preposterous to you, play more sports.

I think that is RWs biggest problem - trying to be careful in the first 3 quarters. When it is late in the game and nothing to lose, he lets it rip and plays well. But early in games he is "careful" and thus not very good.

[burrrton]

Could be, ID.

[Anthony]

I think that is RWs biggest problem - trying to be careful in the first 3 quarters. When it is late in the game and nothing to lose, he lets it rip and plays well. But early in games he is "careful" and thus not very good.

That could be, the question then is that Wilson making a choice or PC making a mandate since we know PC preaches ball security it could be PC. Could be both. As to not very good, well I think we need to define that because other than last year stats wise he has been good in the first half as well, however not as good as 2nd half. For instance so far this year his Qb ratings by qtr is 104.6, 127.5, 102.2, 106.9. BY tds is 4,8,5,8. COmplt% is 61.4, 74.2, 62.3, 64.9. So he has really been good throughout the games, but he is more cautious in the first 2-3 qtrs. Interestingly his best qtrs are 2 and 4.