Manafort Trial

[idhawkman]

And I'm still betting Trump gets hit harder for tax and finance charges than any kind of collusion or treason, just like his flunkies. There has been no crimes by any of his flunkies in any way involving treason. They have all been tax or finance charges. I see no reason to believe it will be any different for the Scumbag in Charge.

They won't get him on taxes. He's been audited by the IRS for the past 15 years straight. So they can flop around anyway they want but he's already cleared those hurdles for any crimes. Now that doesn't mean there might be some stuff that is viewed badly by Americans as a whole even though it is legal. But that won't see the light of day through the Mueller probe.

I mean this guy is telling us how great the Saudis are for buying his 40 and 50 million dollar apartments. He wouldn't piss off people with money to protect the country. Trump's style is more about kicking poor immigrants to appease his followers, while truly dangerous folk like Saudi Princes in a nation funding worldwide terrorism would hurt his business. His followers like Idhawkman starts to backpedal and make excuses when King Trump tells him to do so. I love how these supposed "patriotic" Americans are all about keeping them immigrants out and standing up to foreign nations, except when Trump tells them a murdered naturalized American is murdered by the leaders that buy his expensive apartments. Then Trump thinks the Saudis are great guys, so do his followers like Idhawkman who wants this scumbag traitor re-elected. Then he can continue to sell those expensive apartments to the Saudis and Russians, while Idhawkman pretends this scumbag cares about America other than playing his supporters for fools while he fattens his bank account with that Saudi and Russian money.

I never said such a thing about the saudis and neither did Trump. It might be what you wanted to hear but it is not what was said. You are pathetic. You argue so strongly against the Saudi's for 9/11 but when YOU ARE CONFRONTED about the true background of this Kashoggi dude you run and hide. I noticed you never responded to my post about his background as the spokesperson to the Saudi Intel officer that mysteriously and suddenly resigned on Sept 1, 2001. Now you think this scumbag is a naturalized citizen of the US (which is incorrect since he was getting an updated passport at the Saudi embassy in Turkey so he could get married) that needs to be protected at the cost of the world's economy. I guess you have such TDS that you would rather everyone in the world suffer because of one guy. Remember, if we do this about Saudi, we need to hold the Chinese accountable for the biogene doctor that just genetically altered the gene of a couple embryos and then planted them in women. We also need to hold the Soviet Union accountable for the suppression of their populace, the Mexican govt for the loss of 1,000s of immigrants who have come up missing going through their country including the 72 people found in a mass grave. So again, are you really wanting to go down this road to be that isolated from the world or is this just you throwing another temper tantrum over trump?

You keep on supporting this scumbag, Idhawkman. Keep pissing on the flag like Trump does with all his lies and manipulations. You keep buying his BS because you like seeing strongarm tactics used against poor immigrants, while the real foreign nations that are a threat to us get handshakes and "great guy" talk from Trump.

Good try but you are the one pissing on our flag. So let me get this straight, you are for open borders putting Americans out of work, primarily legal hispanics and black Americans. Are you aware that 63% of these illegals are on govt assistance? Do you know that over 70% of those same illegals after 10 years are on Govt assistance? You don't want to pay extra for people who are fat or don't take care of themselves or are smokers, drug users, etc but you will pay for those who are taking the jobs from able body Americans? Got it, hypocrit.

[RiverDog]

Hers your problem Trump water carrier. We went from "nobody met with russians" to "everybody met with russians" to "nothing is wrong with meeting with russians". Now we've gone from "I have no deals with russia, i've never tried to make deals with russia" to "the hotel deal was killed before I ran for president" to "so what if I was having my long time fixer attorney I called a "good man" a few months ago lie to the congress about the fact that I was still negotiating on a hotel and dangling a 50 million condo to the president for life of our greatest geopolitical foe over a month after I was the party's nominee"

I agree. Trump's story keeps changing.

[Hawktawk]

I agree. Trump's story keeps changing.

Liars who get caught in lies keep changing their story. We still don't know half the truth about the most corrupt administration in my lifetime but I bet Mueller does.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-BBQvk0E
The war hero and man of impeccable integrity G man Bob Mueller knows way more than we do. Getcha popcorn

[idhawkman]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/4-takeaways-from-mueller%E2%80%99s-sentencing-memo-for-michael-flynn/ar-BBQvk0E
The war hero and man of impeccable integrity G man Bob Mueller knows way more than we do. Getcha popcorn

I scoff at that ridiculous spin on what MSN says are four takeaways. Here's the real take aways.

1. Mueller strong armed Flynn like he's trying to do with Corsi and Stone. They've interviewed him 19 times. Why? They didn't get the story they wanted out of him on the first 5 or 6 interviews? They also charged him with lying to the FBI but the FBI agents said they thought he was truthful during their interview. This idea seems to be backed up with Mueller's own words where he said that Flynn almost immediately cooperated with his team in the 19 interviews. So they trumped up a charge against a 33 year old veteran LT. Gen with 5 years combat duty to get him to sing after ruining his life with process and precedures effectively bankrupting him. I really hope you don't lionize this behavior.

2. They asked for no jail time. "IF" Flynn had colluded with the Russians there's no way they would have asked for no jail time. This is the primary offense he's sent to investigate. So we know that there is still no collusion with the Russians. Now we are on to "ties to the Russians" by the campaign. (do you feel your collusion story slipping away yet, you should). We already knew this with the Manafort charges which accounts for two of the three investigations that the Mueller team is following up on. Bank fraud, loans, etc and the ties to the Russians are all on Manafort. The third one is a charge of contacting foreign entities under the Logan act as part of the transition team. We all know this is not against the law. Hell, John Kerry recently met with Iranian diplomats in France and gave them advice on counteracting Trump's withdrawal from the failed Iran agreement.

3. The second charge against Flynn and the one that made him sing is really against his company of which his son was a part of. This is the failure to register under FARO when dealing with the Turkish govt. They threatened Flynn to lock up his son for a very long time and that he nor his son would see their grandchilren again. Again, I hope you don't approve of these tactics even if it is to get at the guy you hate the most in life. 99% of all FARO violations in Washington DC is corrected with updated paperwork and no legal consequence comes from it. So what Mueller has done is "Criminalize" what is common practice in D.C. Expect others to be charged with this going forward now that Mueller has set the precedent.

4. Mueller has no intention of using any of the 19 interviews with Flynn in any criminal charges against anyone else. We know this because Mueller can not base any evidence on a convicted liar (the first charge Mueller levied against Flynn and that he has suggested no jail time for.). No judge would allow a convicted liar to testify or use testimony of in any criminal case.

So I'm glad you are happy that they destroyed an honorable 33 year veteran's life for 2 charges of what? Lying when the FBI didn't really think he lied and a process issue that 99% of anyone not associated with Trump simply modifies and submits. It may be a proud day for you but it is a very sad day for most Americans.

[Aseahawkfan]

You are referring to corporate America as one separate entity when in fact they are as diverse as our population. Of course, corporations lobby politicians and fund their campaigns, but they are not anymore powerful...and I would argue that they are less powerful...than special interest groups like the NRA, AARP, unions, etc. Corporate America doesn't have loyal voters like unions and the NRA does. Politicians value blocks of voters much more than they do money. Look at our past election, and how HRC out spent DJT. Corporate America's money only goes so far. The place where they can flex their muscle is when it comes to jobs, the economy, and taxes, such as was this past circus with Amazon's 2nd headquarters, and as a rule, the pols they influence most are local, from a governor on down to a city council or county commissioners.

They influence with technology, which is more powerful than culture. Do you ever stop and think what has been more powerful? The culture created by technology or the culture created by the Constitution? Which do you think the world could do without easier?

Special interest groups are not more powerful than corporations. I would say Walmart affects more people than the NRA. Corporations are involved in food distribution, your entertainment, your water delivery, your ability to get news, your medical services, and all aspects of your life. You would feel United Health going out of business far more than you would feel the NRA going out of business. Corporate culture and technology drives more cultural change than special interests and it will become more and more the case. We are in the beginning of the era of corporate power.

You have to keep today's environment in perspective. I would much rather live in today's climate than back in the period between the end of the civil war and the Great Depression...sweat shops, child labor, racial discrimination, mob controled unions, police on the take, I could go on and on. Basically go take a look at a 3rd world country like Mexico and that's the type of environment that existed in this country 80-150 years ago.

You're not wrong. That's why i say I"m a curmudgeon. I still like the idea of honor and duty. It doesn't seem to exist today save perhaps in the military. I miss wide open lands with less people and a feeling of liberty that such a land provides. The world feels crowded and overly managed forcing this bubblegum, mild-mannered, dispassionate culture that I don't care for. I look around me and see a spaced out, electronically addicted world that doesn't seem to care.

[idhawkman]

After all the filings yesterday do you all feel it? Collusion and obstruction in slipping away like slime thorugh your fingers.

I find it laughable how they are now trying to go to campaign finance violations which we all know that what Trump did was not against the law. Heck even the FEC chairman said it wasn't a violation.

So here's what we know after all this time:

Hilliary and the DNC paid a law firm to hire a UK former spy to get Russian lies about Trump in farcical OPPO research paper.

The Obama intelligence apparatus used that OPPO research to weaponize the federal government against a presidential campaign.

The deep state has created a "TAX PAYER" funded $30Million Oppo research entity to ensure that NO outsider ever dare to challenge the permanent political class in this country.

[Hawktawk]

The New York office of the Federal Prosecutors stated that Cohen committed FELONIES at the with the knowledge of and at the DIRECTION of subject one "before he became the president of the united states". I guess that clears up who subject one is . Its MULTIPLE FELONIES and the president is complicit in it, ordered it as a MOF.
Obviously the Federal Prosecutors think its a serious offense if they want to give a witness who provided substantial although not complete cooperation to 4 separate investigations 4 years in the pen.

As for the Manafort document they reveal they have texts and emails , documents etc PROVING HIS LIES.Same for Cohen including a recording that Cohan released to the media months ago

Nobody is browbeating anyone in to lies.They are catching them in lies The "witch hunt "has the crazy orange witch in its crosshairs.

Frankly I cant believe how GD stupid and careless these criminals were thinking the FBI wouldnt discover these lies and crimes committed in plain sight. Its also important to note that the initial Cohen filing and the Manfort filing are largely redacted completely for page after page.Its obvious that Mueller isn't going to reveal to the witch and his chump lawyers what he knows. Mueller knows it all including most likely the romp playing water sports with hookers in the ritz carlton in Moscow during the miss universe pageant in 2013.

Ultimately its going to come down to whether there is a Republican or 15 in the Senate with the integrity and love of country of Howard Baker when they took down the second biggest criminal to infest the oval office and at least that guy could govern in a dignified way.This conspiring with our greatest geopolitical foe and felonious behavior is ten times worse. This POS needs to go bye bye ASAP.

[idhawkman]

The New York office of the Federal Prosecutors stated that Cohen committed FELONIES at the with the knowledge of and at the DIRECTION of subject one "before he became the president of the united states". I guess that clears up who subject one is . Its MULTIPLE FELONIES and the president is complicit in it, ordered it as a MOF.
Obviously the Federal Prosecutors think its a serious offense if they want to give a witness who provided substantial although not complete cooperation to 4 separate investigations 4 years in the pen.

As for the Manafort document they reveal they have texts and emails , documents etc PROVING HIS LIES.Same for Cohen including a recording that Cohan released to the media months ago

Nobody is browbeating anyone in to lies.They are catching them in lies The "witch hunt "has the crazy orange witch in its crosshairs.

Frankly I cant believe how GD stupid and careless these criminals were thinking the FBI wouldnt discover these lies and crimes committed in plain sight. Its also important to note that the initial Cohen filing and the Manfort filing are largely redacted completely for page after page.Its obvious that Mueller isn't going to reveal to the witch and his chump lawyers what he knows. Mueller knows it all including most likely the romp playing water sports with hookers in the ritz carlton in Moscow during the miss universe pageant in 2013.

Ultimately its going to come down to whether there is a Republican or 15 in the Senate with the integrity and love of country of Howard Baker when they took down the second biggest criminal to infest the oval office and at least that guy could govern in a dignified way.This conspiring with our greatest geopolitical foe and felonious behavior is ten times worse. This POS needs to go bye bye ASAP.

You are going to need to seek professional help when none of this is proven true other than Cohen committed felonies. The president won't be found guilty of any of what you think is true.

[RiverDog]

I still don't see an obvious impeachable crime in the making, but it is getting real interesting. The problem for the prosecution is relying on the testimony of convicted felons that have a motivation to tell them what they want to hear whether it's true or not. They're going to need a smoking gun, such as the taped conversations were in the Watergate scandal and the semen stained dress was in Clinton's impeachment.

[Aseahawkfan]

If paying off women becomes a removable offense, I'd be surprised if more than half of Congress were able to hold office. No one, Dems or Repubs, wants any kind of serious trial involving paying off women to keep quiet. If that is the only "Federal" crime they have right now, he's going nowhere. They're going to need a lot worse than that.

[idhawkman]

I still don't see an obvious impeachable crime in the making, but it is getting real interesting. The problem for the prosecution is relying on the testimony of convicted felons that have a motivation to tell them what they want to hear whether it's true or not. They're going to need a smoking gun, such as the taped conversations were in the Watergate scandal and the semen stained dress was in Clinton's impeachment.

Well Cohen does have taped conversations with his client the president but he also has another problem. He collected $4.5M promising access to the president to multiple corporations who are still pissed at him for giving them NO access. I think if they press on the Russia hotel conspiracy theory they will find the same thing there, too. Cohen was writing checks that Trump never allowed him to write. (Checks being a figure of speech only. e.g. he was making promises he wasn't authorized to make or able to keep).

If paying off women becomes a removable offense, I'd be surprised if more than half of Congress were able to hold office. No one, Dems or Repubs, wants any kind of serious trial involving paying off women to keep quiet. If that is the only "Federal" crime they have right now, he's going nowhere. They're going to need a lot worse than that.

Yeah, its so bad that the Congress setup a fund so that you, me, River, and all the other Americans would pay them off for them. E.g. its not even their own money paying these people off for sexual crimes and other offenses. Last I heard they had spent over $15.5M for these "settlements" and I'm sure that none of the Congressmen or Senators who have taken advantage of this slush fund want to go down the road of payoffs and election laws.

[RiverDog]

If paying off women becomes a removable offense, I'd be surprised if more than half of Congress were able to hold office. No one, Dems or Repubs, wants any kind of serious trial involving paying off women to keep quiet. If that is the only "Federal" crime they have right now, he's going nowhere. They're going to need a lot worse than that.

Agreed. If the Democrats taught me anything, it's that it is OK to commit a serious crime so long as the root cause of it is consensual sex.

I can go along with adding that charge to a proven conspiracy to influence the election as a means of showing that his election was illegitimate, but not on a stand-alone Article of Impeachment.

[idhawkman]

Could the Manafort convictions come under scrutiny soon? Could the convictions be overturned based on fruit from the poisonous tree based on the illicit search warrants the feds used? Maybe....

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/449206-fbi-warned-early-and-often-that-manafort-file-might-be-fake-used-it-anyway

Reading that post reminds me of this scene in the Lincoln Lawyer movie.
https://youtu.be/h6M2ZbuGfYc?t=63