Rule Change Proposed to Ban the Tush Push

[River Dog]

If you can't beat'em, ban'em.

https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/19023 ... 21/photo/1

This rule proposal would be a nightmare for officials. How do you define "pushing"? If the quarterback has his hand on the center while both are going forward, is that a push?

[c_hawkbob]

Pretty lame proposal IMO. That "scrum" the tush push creates is the most "football" of any play in the NFL.

[River Dog]

Pretty lame proposal IMO. That "scrum" the tush push creates is the most "football" of any play in the NFL.

I hadn't thought about the historical angle, but you're right, football originated from rugby where they have lots of 'scrums' that are almost identical to the tush push.

The other thing here is that they relatively recently changed a rule from a ball carrier being betted by his teammates, which isn't much different than the tush push. It seems pretty hypocritical to ban it on one play but not another.

[4XPIPS]

This sort of reminds of the "hack a Shaq" rule where they had to curve a rule in the NBA because some players lacked skills to hit free throws. Albeit it made for bad tv in the NBA when sending Shaq to the free throw line over and over and slowing the game down.

However, the tush push is pure grit and strength, if you want it banned, how about devise a defense to defend it properly. If you know it's coming, defend it better. The scrum part of the game shouldn't be taken away because players are utilizing their strength and leverage to gain the opposition.

There are many things in the NFL that still need fixing, like instant replay, or replay on a bad PI call, or a missed face mask in the endzone(Vikings vs Rams), when clearly it was the case but plays aren't reviewable through replay. If we have the High Def technology to see the play from our sofa seconds after the play has happened, and can make a 100% judgement on it with in 25 secs to 45 secs, how come this isn't happening in real time on the field. I hear all this bla bla about replay assist from NY, but it still takes over 5 mins to render a decision at times.

[trents]

Personally, I think all plays should be reviewable and I think they should limit replays to say, 60 sec. If the refs can't make a decision in 60 seconds then the play should stand as originally called on the field. It it's so close that you can't make a decision in 60 sec. then leave it be.

[River Dog]

Personally, I think all plays should be reviewable and I think they should limit replays to say, 60 sec. If the refs can't make a decision in 60 seconds then the play should stand as originally called on the field. It it's so close that you can't make a decision in 60 sec. then leave it be.

With the advancements they've made in AI, they shouldn't have to wait that long. 10 seconds tops. They can do it with barely any interruption.

So long as the flow of the game isn't interrupted, I don't care how many plays are reviewed.

[curmudgeon]

Cool. Save our bureaucracy……

[NorthHawk]

There seems to be some suggestions that player safety might be an angle that is being discussed.
When you get two lines made up of more than 3000 lbs in total clashing, it could be an issue for the players or player that ends up on the bottom. If someone gets a career ending neck injury then it will change quickly.
The comparison to Rugby isn't valid in my opinion because the scrums move in circles and the players aren't' all huge and very few approach the 300lb threshold.

[River Dog]

There seems to be some suggestions that player safety might be an angle that is being discussed.
When you get two lines made up of more than 3000 lbs in total clashing, it could be an issue for the players or player that ends up on the bottom. If someone gets a career ending neck injury then it will change quickly.
The comparison to Rugby isn't valid in my opinion because the scrums move in circles and the players aren't' all huge and very few approach the 300lb threshold.

There's not much threat of a life altering injury in a tush push as there is in high-speed collisions like receivers vs. defensive backs, of which IMO where the emphasis should be when discussing player safety. Even when considering all injuries, I would be surprised if it were in the top 50% of injury risk situations.

[NorthHawk]

Chris Jones got a slight neck injury in the SB, so it's possible. All it would take is a top OL or DL getting seriously hurt by this play and because of this particular play to make them change the rule.
The safety aspect is always up front because it could cost them a lot of money if it's determined that they didn't look out for the players safety and didn't change the rule.

I'm under no illusion that a rule outlawing the play will pass, though. It's a pretty high bar to make that kind of change to the rule book.

[River Dog]

Chris Jones got a slight neck injury in the SB, so it's possible. All it would take is a top OL or DL getting seriously hurt by this play and because of this particular play to make them change the rule.
The safety aspect is always up front because it could cost them a lot of money if it's determined that they didn't look out for the players safety and didn't change the rule.

I'm under no illusion that a rule outlawing the play will pass, though. It's a pretty high bar to make that kind of change to the rule book.

Yeah, but you could cite dozens of specific plays where a player suffered that kind of injury. Until I see some kind of research or study that shows otherwise, it's my opinion that a tush push is no more hazardous than a jet sweep or bubble screen.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't thinking banning this one play that requires very specialized personnel including a running QB who can squat 600 lbs. is worth the effort. Seems petty and is obviously targeting this narrow situation with a QB with a uniquely strong lower body. Sour grapes by some of the owners in my opinion. They should just leave it. Doubt anyone can easily replicate unless they have a QB like Jalen Hurts. How many QBs you seen who can squat 600 lbs. raw? That's pretty nuts and a unique physical trait.

[River Dog]

I don't thinking banning this one play that requires very specialized personnel including a running QB who can squat 600 lbs. is worth the effort. Seems petty and is obviously targeting this narrow situation with a QB with a uniquely strong lower body. Sour grapes by some of the owners in my opinion. They should just leave it. Doubt anyone can easily replicate unless they have a QB like Jalen Hurts. How many QBs you seen who can squat 600 lbs. raw? That's pretty nuts and a unique physical trait.

You don't necessarily need a quarterback to run that play. Everyone knows what the play is going be, so why not put some bruising fullback in there to take the snap?

But I agree that Hurts is a special player. There aren't many running backs that can squat press 600lbs, either.

[NorthHawk]

This has more traction than I thought. It wasn't immediately shot down and Goodell seems to be pushing for a change.
It sounds from what I've read that he thinks the NFL should be out front of this issue instead of how they acted with concussions regarding player safety.
I'm still unconvinced it will be passed but the probability is greater than I had thought.

[Oly]

If it turns out that there are more significant major injury risks to the defense with this play, then I'd begrudgingly be okay with the ban. I think the NFL is right to treat head injuries differently than other injuries, so if the tush push causes more concussions, then okay. And even if there are more severe career-ending type injuries because of the weight involved, then okay.

But otherwise, this just seems like the kind of brute physicality people like in football. I'd rather keep the play.

[River Dog]

If it turns out that there are more significant major injury risks to the defense with this play, then I'd begrudgingly be okay with the ban. I think the NFL is right to treat head injuries differently than other injuries, so if the tush push causes more concussions, then okay. And even if there are more severe career-ending type injuries because of the weight involved, then okay.

But otherwise, this just seems like the kind of brute physicality people like in football. I'd rather keep the play.

That's exactly my position. If they can show some sort of evidence, a study of some sort or testimony from medical experts, that suggests that there is a significantly increased risk of injury from this play vs. other plays, then I could be talked into it. Otherwise, it sounds like a "if you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" proposition.

And I draw a distinction between injuries of joints, tendons, muscles, et al and concussions, neck/spinal injuries as the latter carry the most grave of consequences in terms of long-term health.

[NorthHawk]

I’m not sure it’s about concussions but rather neck and back injuries.
The weak part about this play is the neck and back with all that weight and power involved.

[River Dog]

I’m not sure it’s about concussions but rather neck and back injuries.
The weak part about this play is the neck and back with all that weight and power involved.

Understood.

But if they're going to ban the Tush Push for that kind of injury risk, then why allow offensive linemen to aid a ball carrier where we see half the offense jump in and push the pile forward? What's the difference between that and a tush push?

[NorthHawk]

I read one comment that they thought the rule would change to disallow pulling or pushing a player from behind. I don't know how prevalent that thinking is, but it sounded to me like something the NFL would do so they can claim they aren't outlawing this particular play.

[River Dog]

I read one comment that they thought the rule would change to disallow pulling or pushing a player from behind. I don't know how prevalent that thinking is, but it sounded to me like something the NFL would do so they can claim they aren't outlawing this particular play.

It wasn't that long ago that it was a penalty to 'aid' a ball carrier.

And since the two plays are nearly identical in their injury risk, they should be able to analyze how many injuries occurred via aiding a ball carrier and use it to either support or refute banning the tush push.