OT Hoyer/Manziel

[Hawktawk]

Johnny Putrid ( headline nickname, not mine) did exactly what he did in college in that game, ran around, and floated balls up into the secondary, and exactly what I said would happen when he was drafted, happened in that game, DB's went and took his floaters. Until he delivers a ball with authority, it is going to be a whole lot of games like that for the Browns and their fans. Sorry, sorry, sorry display of all the things not to do, and he kept making them as the game went on, same mistakes, that game, and from the pre season. If he can't learn, he can't play, that simple.

Bad decision to insert him during a playoff chase. Doomed the Browns to "developing" with one move.

The playoff chase was basically over after the loss to Indy and the offense was going nowhere. Hoyer had been bad for a while and they had lost 3 of 4.Losing is losing.There was a majority of opinion throughout the league including the HC that it was time to take a look at Manziel.

But HC you were right at least for yesterday, dead right. It could and did get worse. Furthermore it looked like the whole team tanked, quit. In fairness to JM LOTS of rookies have looked horrible their entire rookie year and some are HOFers now. But yeah, that was about as bad a first performance as you could have. Johnny owned it, didn't sulk or make excuses so we will see. He did not appear ready for the athleticism and speed of the defense. especially when they had a week to prepare for his game . I did not get the game in my area so i didn't see much but there were only low lights.Shut outs sort of speak for themselves.

Oh well no skin off my nose like Ive said I'm man enough to eat the crow, unlike some people who will continue to defend the indefensible position they have taken.

[kalibane]

Have to agree with Hawk. Although the longer Manziel rode the pine the more suspicious that he was so bad in practice that the Browns were just embarrassed to start him, they were done after the loss to the Colts. At that point you have to see what you really have in Manziel heading into the offseason. They need to decide if they need to pursue a QB in the draft of FA. I don't think two games is enough. Right choice but wow what an ugly debut.

[Hawktawk]

Manziel has had a reputation of not working hard enough on his game and deservedly so with all the Vegas stuff and 2 AM scuffles in his apartment complex. Yesterday should have been a hell of a wake-up call if he really does want to be successful at this level. I think the next two weeks will show a lot. If he shows some improvement hes probably going into next year in good shape to compete to start. If he hangs up two more clunkers like that he might be out of a job.

[NorthHawk]

Manziel has had a reputation of not working hard enough on his game and deservedly so with all the Vegas stuff and 2 AM scuffles in his apartment complex. Yesterday should have been a hell of a wake-up call if he really does want to be successful at this level. I think the next two weeks will show a lot. If he shows some improvement hes probably going into next year in good shape to compete to start. If he hangs up two more clunkers like that he might be out of a job.

You might be right.
I had a bit of a look at their game yesterday and their whole Offense seemed to be off. From what I saw there was little run game to help in any play action they might have wanted to use.
Maybe it was the Bengals Defense though that made it look that way. Like you said, they have 2 more games to see if anything is different.

[Hawktawk]

So the offensive line looked like that play from The Longest Yard only for the whole game?LMAO, Maybe HC is absolutely correct that his teammates hate him and wont play for him. Clearly the opponents HATE him. I mean, teams want to beat Wilson, Luck etc but they dont hate them, they respect them.Its like guys want to be the one to tackle him so they can mock him.

JM has done it to himself. Hes the dyslexic Tim Tebow, a great college player with a cult following but a total bad boy reputation.
What i didn't see from him yesterday was fear though. I saw him throw a bad pick late in the end zone after scrambling out of a collapsing pocket but he looked like a guy trying to make a play. Then the pick on the sidelines, late, bad footwork, not enough velocity.BetterQBs make those throws too sometimes. I didn't see much of the game, dont know about anything like dropped balls if there were any.

It was a very poor debut for sure. People are going to see what the kid is made of real soon. Hes got a big mountain to climb.It REALLY cant get much worse than that steamer.

You might be right.
I had a bit of a look at their game yesterday and their whole Offense seemed to be off. From what I saw there was little run game to help in any play action they might have wanted to use.
Maybe it was the Bengals Defense though that made it look that way. Like you said, they have 2 more games to see if anything is different.

[Zorn76]

About the only thing good for JM yesterday was the way he handled himself during post game.

He took full responsibility for his abysmal debut, and provided answers that were longer than a word or two. He didn't act petulant, either, which sadly sticks out these days in terms of how other QB's handle losses (*cough* Kaep *cough*).

I don't think he'll be much more than a journeyman backup, though. Even if he was making poor decisions, his arm is positively weak. Some of those throws had all the zip of a sophomore h.s. QB. I guess he can work on that, but at this stage a passer's arm is nearly fully developed.

He was a great NCAA guy, apparently (I don't watch college ball), but the pros are a whole different animal.

He'd do well to quit flashing the money sign until he actually starts earning it.

[Hawktawk]

He aint Wilson.

The thing about his arm is it was perceived that he had a stronger arm than Hoyer. The picks I saw looked like bad footwork, as well as Hoyers picks the week before. If his arm is really that weak hes toast. It looked more to me like bad decisions, late throws and a lack of anticipation of the athleticism of the defenders. He will learn or die. Regardless of where he was picked I think with the negatives hes brought upon himself he will have a very short honeymoon if it doesn't improve dramatically.

[kalibane]

His arm is decent it just doesn't help to be constantly throwing off your back foot falling away. His footwork was terrible.

[HumanCockroach]

Interesting take

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... _atn_patra

[Hawktawk]

Interesting take

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... _atn_patra

Its a decent read. After the Colts loss with 4 defensive takeaways and two defensive scores it was clear the offense wasn't getting it done. It was time to see Manziel and the first look wasn't pretty. Browns were close but no cigar this season and I dont think the decision to start Manziel this week impacted their faint playoff hopes at all.. With respect to HC they might not even have had the "close" with JM. We will see.

[c_hawkbob]

Unfortunately I think Johnny Money's problems are as basic as another famous first round colossal bust: Manziel's footwork = Tebow's throwing motion.

Yes basic mechanics can be changed but it takes hard work and dedication to get it done. Not exactly the boy's strengths.

[savvyman]

Johnny Putrid ( headline nickname, not mine) did exactly what he did in college in that game, ran around, and floated balls up into the secondary, and exactly what I said would happen when he was drafted, happened in that game, DB's went and took his floaters. Until he delivers a ball with authority, it is going to be a whole lot of games like that for the Browns and their fans. Sorry, sorry, sorry display of all the things not to do, and he kept making them as the game went on, same mistakes, that game, and from the pre season. If he can't learn, he can't play, that simple.

Bad decision to insert him during a playoff chase. Doomed the Browns to "developing" with one move.

Yes I remember you did.

I saw the 'highlights' of the browns game - One of Manziels picks was a floater of a pass which was up for grabs to a group of people in the end zone. It was a completely reckless throw and looked much like the type of throws I saw on YouTube before the draft and were exactly like you described back then as far as NFL defenses would eat these throws up every time.

I am not ready to close the book on Manziel but as I stated on this thread - so far he is living up to my low expectations before the draft.