Offense looks horrible!

[RiverDog]

Just watched rerun of first half of Chargers game. I've got a really bad feeling about this, like starting the season out at 0-2.

[obiken]

I kind of with ya Bro, I just couldn't be the one to say it cause I have the glass half empty rep. He is not getting time to do anything, and unless the defense shuts em down and the Sp teams can score a couple I think we are in trouble. We get the ball at the 50 and have to punt?? Yeah its the backup but still I have a lot of concerns. This is why I spammed giving up Max Unger.

[savvyman]

Almost through the first half on the NFL network now - Will watch again later the recording where I can slow things down.

Bailey looks awful in pass protection. Russell looks off on his accuracy.

Yes there should be concern with how the offense has looked. Every team will have a game plan to unleash the hounds on the Seahawks offensive line - on every play - all season long.

Others have said the disclaimer "its only preseason" - Pete Carroll never talked this way - His mantra in previous seasons was "Always Compete" to win including preseason.

49ers offense was awful last year in the preseason and the 49er faithful kept on saying "its only preseason........."

[Seahawks4Ever]

Maybe Pete plans on "tanking" this season so we can stock pile high draft choices. I mean, let Kam take the season off and really get healthy. Play Lynch sparingly and let CM carry the load. In fact, I would sit ET and Sherm too and save them for next season. As for Russell, why let him get hurt behind a leaky O-Line??? Give the reins to Archer and let him throw to the kids.

Picking in the 30's and low 60's etc... really sucks and leads straight to mediocrity. Lets bite the bullet for one season and replenish the team with Prospects instead of Projects!

[RiverDog]

I kind of with ya Bro, I just couldn't be the one to say it cause I have the glass half empty rep. He is not getting time to do anything, and unless the defense shuts em down and the Sp teams can score a couple I think we are in trouble. We get the ball at the 50 and have to punt?? Yeah its the backup but still I have a lot of concerns. This is why I spammed giving up Max Unger.

Lockett's preseason success is a double edged sword. Yes, he's a damn good kick returner, might be one of the best I've ever seen coming into the league. It really is nice seeing someone other than Bryan Walters or Robert Turbin returning kicks. Lockett looks fluid, has great open field instincts. But we've exposed our secret weapon. Teams will directional kick away from him. And the defense will be solid, with or without Kam. We have a lot of depth, particularly along the DL.

But I really worry about our offense. I know we haven't seen a lot of Beast and that the offense usually lags behind the defense in the early part of the year, but this preseason looks exceptionally bad, and we have what is arguably the toughest two back-to-back games on our schedule coming out of the gate.

Generally I don't get too worried about preseason games. Glorified scrimmages. But this preseason has an entirely different feel to it. No offensive touchdowns in 3 games?

[kalibane]

So am I justified in being really angry about the lack of attention to the Offensive Line this offseason yet?

[Hawktawk]

So am I justified in being really angry about the lack of attention to the Offensive Line this offseason yet?

THIS off season Kal? Other than the Okung pick very little has been done to help this line in Carolls tenure.Frankly in the last couple of years its gone exactly the opposite direction with Breno, Max, and Carp all gone and a bunch of no names and converted defensive players replacing them. Russ and Beast have been special enough to win in spite of it but this could be the year it catches up with the Hawks. I continue to tell myself this offense will look way better with Beast in the backfield and the playbook open. I wouldn't rule out that PC is playing Okie Dokie with the league, keeping everything under wraps. He can read a schedule as well as anyone. But if what we've seen is what we will get from this offense 0-2 is a distinct possibility, perhaps worse.

[kalibane]

Granted but when I was complaining after the draft about not addressing it in a meaningful way (and then again as no one else was added prior to training camp), the general response I was met with was, "Cable is a genius, he'll short it out" (something I can't wholly agree with considering the types of players he keeps asking them to draft).

I have been disappointed about the lack of attention to the O-Line in general but I thought this year was particularly egregious considering we lost two starters to an already bad unit. It is pretty pathetic when you see Carpenter as a loss.

[c_hawkbob]

Granted but when I was complaining after the draft about not addressing it in a meaningful way (and then again as no one else was added prior to training camp), the general response I was met with was, "Cable is a genius, he'll short it out" (something I can't wholly agree with considering the types of players he keeps asking them to draft).

I have been disappointed about the lack of attention to the O-Line in general but I thought this year was particularly egregious considering we lost two starters to an already bad unit. It is pretty pathetic when you see Carpenter as a loss.

See, and here I thought the general response was that not making the O-line a top priority is just Carroll's team building model; Defense first, a QB and WR's with out of the box skill sets and a lot of churn at the bottom of the roster. Not building from the front back on offense ala Holmgren.

[NorthHawk]

I think there is a difference between not a priority and not ready to play at an NFL level.
I'm hoping it's just a matter of timing, too but at this point the talent level seems to have dropped considerably on what was already a no better than average Line.

[c_hawkbob]

Of course there's a difference; one is cause, the other result.

[kalibane]

Everyone has their own hierarchy of positional value but at some point you have to invest in some pedigreed talent pretty much everywhere. And it just doesn't make sense to make the OL an afterthought when they keep the most valuable position upright.

I am okay with them not aggressively upgrading the line with first round talent every year but completely ignoring it in FA and until the 4th round in the draft is unacceptable IMO. You shouldn't be expecting 3rd day draft picks to step into a starting role from day one. If they do awesome, count your blessings but they are available in the 4th and 5th round for a reason. There was even a reason for a guy like Sherm being available that late.

[c_hawkbob]

Everyone has their own hierarchy of positional value but at some point you have to invest in some pedigreed talent pretty much everywhere. And it just doesn't make sense to make the OL an afterthought when they keep the most valuable position upright.

I am okay with them not aggressively upgrading the line with first round talent every year but completely ignoring it in FA and until the 4th round in the draft is unacceptable IMO. You shouldn't be expecting 3rd day draft picks to step into a starting role from day one. If they do awesome, count your blessings but they are available in the 4th and 5th round for a reason. There was even a reason for a guy like Sherm being available that late.

For the record Kal, I agree, I'm just saying that what we've been doing on the whole has been working so far.

[NorthHawk]

It might be the plan, but I would suggest that our OL isn't as good as the stats might look.
It's really been all about Wilson and Lynch with Lynch breaking 130 tackles and Wilson running for 850 yards.
Those aren't figures a team can count on continuing and it endangers Wilson's mobility every time he's forced to run.
All it takes is a turned ankle and the whole Offense will come to a halt.
Lynch is approaching the magic number for RBs with his high number of carries and getting on to 30 years old.
RBs production just falls off dramatically when they hit that wall, so we hope that isn't this year.

It might be that the FO theory was we would have a 3 or so year window to win championships with a minimum OL and should have had 2 (if not for one infamous play call).
It remains to be seen if this is the year the window closes.
With our Defense, we will always be competitive, but it's going to be difficult to have a ball control Offense that can put up enough points to consistently win with an OL that can't carry the load.

Again, I hope it's just a matter of working together up front, but it hasn't looked promising so far this year.

[Feez]

the offense did look generally horrible but that was with limited time from Lynch and Graham both of which factor largely into how well the offense will run this season. I certainly was not impressed by what I saw but I am nowhere near thinking we will go 0-2 to start the season. this is preseason the key players of our offense were not going full tilt at any point. they are known quantities at this point, who weren't were our O line rotation. after the first game I was worried that has been tempered a little with each additional game. our offense will be fine

[Hawk Sista]

We may well go 0&2 to start. I've thought that from the time the schedule came out. After watching this game, I'm pretty much gonna call it no better than a 1&1 start. BUT, I also don't think that'll be the end of us. We have a top 5 D in the league, very good (improved) special teams & 2 of the top 3 TD scorers in the league on our squad (that'd be the 2 that didn't play much) & that's not even accounting for RW. While I admit to feeling less confident than I have in past years, I'm not ready to push the panic button yet and I am indeed bracing for 0&2.

This PC/JS model of building a team cuts against my personal preference (see all my DRAFT FAT posts). It's hard to argue with their success. Though if Okung goes down again, things could get ugly.

[Anthony]

okay so here are my feelings, if you look at the SD game we look really bad for the first 25 plays or so. The "scripted" plays and yes he scripts them in preseason too. Once we got past them we started moving the ball. So I am only a little worried. I am worried on some of RWs misses but think that is more about timing and him trying some things, as well as only using 30% of the play book. I will not be worried till after game 1. Rodgers just played a preseason game and looked really bad, same for Brady, same for Manning. So it happens and given we have not had what would be our starting Offense out there yet I am going to wait

[kalibane]

What bothers me most is that the pass protection is so suspect that Wilson is starting to feel pressure before it gets there. You want to see a promising young QB have his career derailed? That's the recipe right there.

Green Bay was in a similar position a few years back where their tackles were really bad and they immediately made moves to address it because they did not want Aaron Rodgers back there running for his life. Seattle needs to do the same, especially since we probably lose Okung next year, which means we will have turned over our entire starting OL since 2012. We need some talent and consistency.

[c_hawkbob]

okay so here are my feelings, if you look at the SD game we look really bad for the first 25 plays or so. The "scripted" plays and yes he scripts them in preseason too. Once we got past them we started moving the ball. So I am only a little worried. I am worried on some of RWs misses but think that is more about timing and him trying some things, as well as only using 30% of the play book. I will not be worried till after game 1. Rodgers just played a preseason game and looked really bad, same for Brady, same for Manning. So it happens and given we have not had what would be our starting Offense out there yet I am going to wait

Where did you come up with this bit of information, or is it a guess?

My guess would be that if he scripts the first 25 plays (and I don't believe he does) in the preseason it has nothing to do with the opponents strengths and weaknesses or as a design to move the ball on them (other than in a general sense it being better to have success with a play than not) but rather as a means of evaluating the individual players involved in the play or the player groupings or even the play itself.

I think you're attaching too much importance to statistical success or the scoreboard in a preseason game.

[Zorn76]

Gotta see a complete 60 minutes of a regular season game, with a full compliment of starters (and actual gameplan), before we know where we're at.

[Anthony]

Where did you come up with this bit of information, or is it a guess?

My guess would be that if he scripts the first 25 plays (and I don't believe he does) in the preseason it has nothing to do with the opponents strengths and weaknesses or as a design to move the ball on them (other than in a general sense it being better to have success with a play than not) but rather as a means of evaluating the individual players involved in the play or the player groupings or even the play itself.

I think you're attaching too much importance to statistical success or the scoreboard in a preseason game.

I know several people who work for the Hawks so thats how I know. I never said why only that he did, and again once we get past them just like regular season we start moving the ball. It is just the way Bevel is he like sot use the 25 plays to test the defense. Unfortunately it leads to alot of slow starts. Now that said even when we get past them we are not great. The only time we are truly great is when Rw has control ie 2 minutes drill or hurry up.

[NorthHawk]

Gotta see a complete 60 minutes of a regular season game, with a full compliment of starters (and actual gameplan), before we know where we're at.

It will be better to see a full game, but the product on the OL so far has been underwhelming while other teams look to have their OLs much closer to NFL ready.
Still, we have 2 weeks to go for improvement, so all isn't yet lost.

[NorthHawk]

"I know several people who work for the Hawks so thats how I know. I never said why only that he did, and again once we get past them just like regular season we start moving the ball. It is just the way Bevel is he like sot use the 25 plays to test the defense. Unfortunately it leads to alot of slow starts. Now that said even when we get past them we are not great. The only time we are truly great is when Rw has control ie 2 minutes drill or hurry up."

It does make some sense to script the plays as others have said to see players in different situations, as well as it gets the coaches moving into game mode as well.
However, I would think that they would also want to have their players see some sustained success if just to help the OL work together more.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the Offensive Line play is at the root of the lack of production on Offense.

[Anthony]

"I know several people who work for the Hawks so thats how I know. I never said why only that he did, and again once we get past them just like regular season we start moving the ball. It is just the way Bevel is he like sot use the 25 plays to test the defense. Unfortunately it leads to alot of slow starts. Now that said even when we get past them we are not great. The only time we are truly great is when Rw has control ie 2 minutes drill or hurry up."

It does make some sense to script the plays as others have said to see players in different situations, as well as it gets the coaches moving into game mode as well.
However, I would think that they would also want to have their players see some sustained success if just to help the OL work together more.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the Offensive Line play is at the root of the lack of production on Offense.

Oh I agree it is the biggest issue by far, the oline that is.

[Hawk Sista]

Okung didn't play, Bailey looked poor, and Britt is just not adjusted yet. On the other hand Gilliam played decently, a couple of mistakes, but generally better than what we have seen over there. To me it looked like the right side of the line handled the rush fairly well, while the left side sucked. In the regular season, Okung would likely have played, and I think Britt will look better playing next to him. I am somewhat concerned about center, although Nowak did not make obvious mistakes.

I think we all know Okung didn't play...hence the comments about Okung's importance (seeing as how Bailey sucked). It'll be ok; may be a rockier start than we'd like, but it'll be ok.