EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN HAWKS

[Hawk Sista]

Not ONLY does he have MAJOR character issues, we likely could have gotten him, assuming he weren't a POS and that he's a good pick-up, in the 7th. We could have taken Lockett with the 63rd pick and this a-hole much later and kept our friggin 4, 5, & 6 draft picks. Might as well have signed Greg Hardy. Jeeezus Pete and John... What the HELL?

The center from Oregon was sitting there too. I'm sick. I quit watching and will need a serious drink and some explanation.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... ded-arrest

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle ... /19157491/

[NorthHawk]

Well, it's a bit of a head scratcher...

[Hawk Sista]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... cond-round

[Hawk Sista]

Again, even if they wanted this guy, his POS ass woulda been there, likely as a RFA. unbelievable. Then we coulda had locket and one of the oline guys who went just after.

[Oly]

I don't like playing the "he would have been available later" game because we just don't know. I have no problem with them picking a player who they think can make an impact in whatever round they want. They have earned the benefit of the doubt there.

But I'm all on board playing the "I don't want a woman-beating PoS on my team" game. There is no benefit of the doubt when you punch a woman and then blame everyone but yourself. I share your disappointment here, Sis. I don't want this guy on the Hawks.

[jshawaii22]

Wow, don't hold back Sis.. tell us how you really feel. I guess I missed something while I was working. This is the same reaction as Bruce Irving. What happened?

js

[Hawk Sista]

True. I'm taking out my anger & disappointment and saying too much. I'm Still über upset.

[Hawk Sista]

We took Frank Clark who was kicked off of his Michigan team for a domestic violence arrest after a felony theft arrest. Most teams reported taking him off their draft board because of the severity & frequency of the off the field issues.

[jshawaii22]

...and he's not an offensive lineman, either. I've never heard of him, but I don't follow much college past the West Coast. I can understand your feelings, if he should be in jail instead of a Seahawk uniform.

js

[monkey]

While I understand the worry about his character, I have to say that, there was absolutely NO WAY he was sliding into the 7th round. He's a legitimate first round talent, who a few teams took off their boards because of his red flags, but not because of his ability.

Just saying, if you want to be disappointed in the pick, be disappointed in his character questions but don't be disappointed with the value of the pick. There is no doubt about his talent, he absolutely would have been picked earlier except for his legal troubles. He's legit and the value was that of a steal.

[Hawk Sista]

Monkey, I've conceded that already a few posts up.

It's just very disappointing so I've admitted to piling on because of how significant the disappointment is. Women are NFL fans too and this guy has the charachter of a Greg Hardy. A pot smoker? Ok... A thief? Ok.... A woman abuser? No way.

He was guilty & kicked off his college team & taken off most draft boards w/ major & multiple charachter issues.

[jshawaii22]

Yet, Seahawks.com doesn't mention any of that in their dissertation of the pick. I feel for your anger! In the NFL, what you do or did in college doesn't matter.

[jshawaii22]

So, tell us what you think of the third pick?

[c_hawkbob]

All I can say is I sure hope we did our homework on this dude and he's not the POS he appears to be.

One thing for certain is we got no longer have any high ground from which to chirp at other teams for the dirtbags they've got.

[mykc14]

I have to admit that I don't know anything about this guy, but if he hit a woman I don't want him on my team. With that being said I will reserve a little judgment until I see some facts surrounding that particular situation. Clearly the dude has some major red flags but the other stuff I can live with and write off as a college student doing some dumb stuff due to immaturity. Like I have stated before about Hardy though, I don't want a woman beater on my team. With that being said IF IF IF IF IF somehow the domestic violence arrest was not what it seems to be I can get behind this pick, with some reservation. I would love a team of high character 'Ruskell' type of guys but we saw where that took us. Here's what I do know the Hawks obviously had this guy very high on their board and were not scared away from his off-field history,

[mykc14]

All I can say is I sure hope we did our homework on this dude and he's not the POS he appears to be.

One thing for certain is we got no longer have any high ground from which to chirp at other teams for the dirtbags they've got.

I agree, although I would add a caveat that if Harbaugh were still coaching the niners they would still be fair game due to his 'above reproach' comment. Alas he is not, so no high ground to stand on.

[obiken]

It doesnt matter, we needed Offensive lineman to block. Its crazy.

[NorthHawk]

I've got mixed feelings about this pick.
He may be a piece of the puzzle along the DL - perhaps replacing Schofield, but the off field concerns are troubling.
I hope he's taken some sensitivity training and has changed his ways (if that's possible) because the NFL is coming down hard on domestic violence.
I understand the Seahawks have a psychologist on staff who has discussions with possible selections. Maybe they also delved into the off field actions.

Regarding Tyler Lockett, he's a little like Richardson with better return skills and maybe a better route runner. With Richardson recovering from the ACL surgery, he might fill that role at least until Richardson returns. Then some WR decisions might have to be made. After thinking about it, it would seem Ricardo Lockette might be the odd man out.
I wonder if he will be worth the 3 draft picks that might have gone to OL, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Hawk Sista]

I typed a response to the question about T. Lockett. I don't know where it went.

In short, I did very little research in advance of this draft because I didn't have a lot of time. I did, however, hear glowing reports about this kid and am pleased he's a Hawk. I did not love giving up t draft picks to get him.

On Clark, again- I'd be happy to be an alarmist and wrong. I got a few texts from others ribbing me and I have no response. Looks like he's guilty as sin from my vantage point.... I'll be anxious to hear how they justify this.

[obiken]

I agree HS, I didn't watch the draft today, I went to the Blitz and watched My Blackhawks beat the Wild! Now I understand where you are coming from. This was just stupid. 1. Its a major reach to think this guy will have any impact on our DL at all. Why did we get Rubin then?? 2. I could have seen reaching for Tyler Lockett, the guy is the steal of the draft as a 3rd rounder. I think he could be what Paul Richardson should have been. (242 yards please.) I am shocked he fell to the 3rd round. Oh yeah everyone else was taking Offensive lineman, what was I thinking!! 3. We have no depth at OL.
Our OL is in serious need of repair and all the good OLineman are off the board. Now you are looking for JR. Sweezy types who might plug a hole in an adequate manner at best.
I am now prepared to say that PC has put the last nail in the jail that shows he cannot draft offense at all. He got lucky on Wilson. RO was a no brainier that a child could have picked. Moffett, Carpenter, and the rest are all bust. Outside of picking up ML from Buffalo, he has gotten no one of note for the Offense. He has done nothing to protect RW, who was running for his life last year, especially when Max Unger was out. Now Max is gone, Carpenter is gone and RO has to carry Blue Cross, KP, and Obamacare. IF RO goes down, its over, its all over, then we are risking serious injury to the best young qb that we have ever had. Oh BTW, don't even mention the running game. This WILL be ML, last productive year. Add to all that IF we lose any of the big 4 (Thomas, Sherman, Browner, and Wagner) for the year we are done on Defense. We have lost so many good backups that I am realizing that winning the SB just kills you for the long term! Not that I would have traded that for the world but our QB better get the ball out quick, or we are in trouble.
IF this Clark guy is a locker room cancer, he will have a pal in Irvin to FUBAR our whole team.

[RiverDog]

I haven't had time to digest this pick, but as far as hoping that Pete and John did their homework on this guy as to whether or not his past is an indicator of what to expect from him in the future, they lost a whole lot of credibility in my eyes when they threw all caution to the wind and traded for Percy Harvin then had it blow up in their faces. I'll say one thing for these guys... they sure have balls.

It also directly contradicts a specific statement JS once made as to whether or not striking a woman was a "deal breaker" for the Seahawks, and JS unequivocally said that it was. But, like a good politician, I fully expect him to spin his way out of that hypocrisy.

[obiken]

Oh yeah Percy, I forgot about him. IF you look at my paste from NFL dot com, you see that they may be shopping Irvin already. IF so River lets HOPE its a great OT! Right OT I should say! Like I said on the other post it could be worse, we could all be Jets or Browns fans!


Bottom Line Clark has some explosive qualities and power to his game, but the big question is going to be how badly his off-the-field indiscretions play with NFL teams. He's likely a strong-side 3-4 OLB, but has the ability to play end in a 4-3 as well. Some league insiders believe he could come off the board inside the top 100 picks.

[obiken]

Daddy always said, to play in the NFL you have to be big or you have to be fast, hes fast. Runs a 4.4! Hes our new Punt returner, I think.

NFL dot com:

Father is Kevin Lockett, who was an All Big-12 performer for Kansas State in 1996 and a second-round pick of the Kansas City Chiefs in 1997. Tyler broke his father's school records for career receptions and yards. In 2014, was selected second-team All-American as an all-purpose player and first-team All-Big 12. Was also a Biletnikoff Award semifinalist (nation's top wide receiver). Two-time Big 12 Special Teams Player of the Year (2014 and 2013). In 2013, selected first-team All-Big 12 as a wide receiver and kick returner. Caught three touchdown passes in Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl and was selected as Offensive MVP. Honorable mention All-Big 12 in 2012, finishing with four receiving touchdowns and two kick-return touchdowns. Named 2011 Big-12 Offensive Freshman of the Year and second-team All-Big 12 kick returner. Won a Class 5A State Championship as a senior at Booker T. Washington (Okla.).
Analysis
Strengths Good play speed. Has twitch at top of his routes and gets separation for quarterbacks to make open throws. His father was a standout wide receiver at Kansas State and played in the NFL. Intelligent player on field who has clearly learned from his father. Nuanced route runner with ability to sell. Will vary route speed and is proficient with double moves. Scouts say his personal character and football character are top-notch. Has a knack for making explosive plays as a receiver and return man. Steps up his game when matched up against top competition across from him. Likes to block.
Weaknesses Very slightly built. Struggles with physical cornerbacks and can be redirected in his routes. Press coverage could be an issue for him on the next level. Scouts are concerned that he is too slightly built to be a full-time NFL kick returner. Likely relegated to the slot only in the NFL. Hands are inconsistent in traffic. Top-end speed in question. Got caught from behind more than once.
Draft Projection Round 3 or 4
NFL Comparison Jarius Wright
Bottom Line Highly competitive with a history of production at Kansas State. Utilizes great routes and suddenness out of his breaks to get consistent separation. Lockett is a film rat who can come in and compete for a slot receiver spot right away and should be an NFL punt returner.

[FolkCrusader]

Posting this for Hawksista. I do understand your disappointment, but if helpful at all the 'hawks did a ton of checking on this guy. I hope he does not ultimately disappoint you.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.s ... estic.html

Personally I think they guy has phenomenal physical skills and was a great value where he was drafted. I agree there is a lot of smoke though. I hope the 'hawks are right.

[NorthHawk]

Clark plays the DE/OLB, Rubin plays DT so there is no conflict as to why we got Rubin.
I have no idea whether we could have got him later, but if I were making the decisions, I would have taken Locket before Clark, not traded up, and taken a chance on Clark being there.

There are really only 3 or 4 OL of note left other than pure Centers.
Considerations:
TJ Clemmings, OT Pittsburgh No chance of getting him
Jarvis Harrison, OG Texas A&M Slim chance of getting him
Tre Jackson, OG Florida State Slim chance of getting him
Mark Glowinski OG, West Virginia Possible selection
BJ Finney OC, Kansas State Might be value late.
Shaq Mason OG/OC Georgia Tech I hope we get this guy

Other than Finney who is a pure Center and Mason who has flexibility, the rest of the OL that we possibly have a chance on getting are probably just depth on an already poor OL.

I'm hoping Schneider hasn't been reading the press clippings about his ability to find players in later rounds. If so, that kind of arrogance will get you into trouble faster than anything and with Lynch reaching the magic 30 and number of carries soon, our run game will surely suffer significantly when he hits the wall. That will put pressure on the pass game and with lousy pass protection it will be up to our Defense to carry the Offense even more than it has.

[SalmonBB]

I understand the concerns on all sides regarding Clark, but I thought PC and JS did a pretty good job addressing them right off the bat.http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/05/01/schneider-carroll-draft-day-2-press-conference

Everyone is entitled to their own personal views. From my own, I believe that judgement is something that gets thrown out rather quickly and more often than it should by people. Hitting a woman is awful, and illegal. If it did happen, there is no excuse. With that said, we go on living, and I think it is a credit to this organization that they take guys with histories - as awful as they might be - and try to make them better.

I am not blinded by the fact that the first consideration in drafting a football player onto a football team is whether or not there exists some football talent in an individual, which I believe Frank Clark possesses enough of to have been drafted where he was drafted. I found it interesting to hear from JS and PC that while most teams seemed to have eliminated him as an option, they said there were a couple teams maneuvering for him.

With that said, I don't think PC and JS operate on the football ability of a player alone. In my estimation of each man, they both rank high on morals. Their approach, however, in unconventional ... and this doesn't sit well with many who either disagree with it, or don't understand it. Their approach is very much a "who are you now, and how are you going to make yourself better?" type. Their philosophy is "win forever" ... starting today. Their method is competition ... not to beat someone else, but to make each person involved better. They'll apply this philosophy and method to this kid, and I believe them when they say they have a tailored plan in place to help him stay on track to become better. If Clark can play well for our Seahawks, and grow up into a responsible man ... aided by the process in place as a member of the Seahawks ... then I'm all for it. I welcome him. I wish him the best. And if he screws up, I think he'll be gone. For these reasons, I'm kind of excited to see what he can do in football and with his life.

We all have histories. Some have stuff that is different than others, and some which others would consider worse than others. Related to this, I believe we are all ill equipped to judge absolutely (I don't think you are trying to do this Sista ... it sounds to me like you are trying to see "why", and your strong feelings are completely understandable).

I'll admit, I struggle a bit more with the #1 pick of Jameis Winston by Tampa Bay and what may have gone on there. In that case, the little I've seen of the victim's perspective (namely, a girl overwrought with grief, sadness, anger, frustration), it's hard for me to call Winston a "good kid," but I don't have to, and I need to heed my own advice to see if he can be a better person from this day forward. I realize I am ill equipped to judge, and while I don't need to like him, he was not convicted legally. I would hope that Tampa would keep him on a tight leash ... but who knows.

All I know is that from this day forward, I'm going to be extremely interested to see what Frank Clark can do. Welcome to the team, Frank Clark. Do good, and make us 12s and your fellow man proud of what you are capable of doing with your life. Make yourself proud.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[HumanCockroach]

Good post, sums up my feelings in a lot of ways. Sometimes, we as a society are incredibly quick to condemn.

[monkey]

It doesnt matter, we needed Offensive lineman to block. Its crazy.

I said in another thread that we would get a bunch of o-linemen in this draft, and the first two picks do nothing to dissuade me from that.
We'll get multiple O-Linemen in the middle and later rounds. Already added back to back in the fourth, more forthcoming I'd bet.

BTW, we're going to get knocked in the media for taking such scheme specific offensive linemen, DON'T BUY IT!
Scheme specific guys fall drop in the draft and end up being big time bargains. It's my opinion that both Poole and Glowinski are home run draft picks.
While I too am worried about Frank Clark's character issues, and as such will be taking a wait and see approach with him, the other three picks we've made thus far I believe were all home runs.
Two scheme specific linemen, who we desperately needed, and a WR who will definitely make an impact right away at least on special teams (which we also desperately needed!)

So far I am not extremely disappointed.

[NorthHawk]

Good post, sums up my feelings in a lot of ways. Sometimes, we as a society are incredibly quick to condemn.

Yeah, it's a pretty balanced view.

The questions I have with this pick are will he be a situational player like Obrien Schofield or part of the rotation?
If situational, is that worth the 63rd selection? Couldn't they have waited and take a player like, say Eli Harold later?
Maybe I just don't know how we are going to use him.
Considering how much they gave up in lost opportunity for Lockett, might that have been the better tactic?

I understand targeting players, but after losing 2 starters on an OL already in need of upgrade, might it have been better to get better OL selections - or at least have more draft capital to spend to move up for a better player than who we got later in the draft? We also need depth at DB, so one of those picks might have given us a return there, too.

The end result will be determined by how well Clark does. If he ends up a stud, then it will be all worth it, but if not...

[HumanCockroach]

I think that is a fair question and completely agree with your points North, not sure why they felt it necessary to go the route they did, but after this many head scratching moves by this FO, I have learned to just roll with it, and trust them. More often than not, those picks work out.

I'm not a "draftnik" by any means, and typically my research is casual, and consist of reading a few mock drafts, with the exception of an occasional Husky, Coug or rare Eastern game I don't watch or particularly care for college football, so my knowledge of Clark is limited, but most reports I read felt he was indeed a first round talent so I suppose there is value there. With the waves of pass rushers Seattle prefers to use, it doesn't surprise me that they selected another. Personally I don't feel he is going to stand up, while with Irvin from day one said he would play as a LB. I feel he is a player that is the replacement for Clemmons, not Irvin. I don't think they continue to play Bennett and Avril at the 85% snaps they did last season, and expect Clark and Marsh to spell them regularly.

[jshawaii22]

Sis, maybe it's just talk, but here it is from the horse's mouth ( or the other end, if you want) from Seahawks.com:

...Schneider, who was in Michigan for a scouting visit just days after the incident, said that based on the team’s investigation, he did not believe Clark hit his girlfriend. He said that domestic violence issues remained a deal-breaker with the organization when evaluating players.

Clark also denied striking his girlfriend Friday when he spoke to Seattle media after his selection, saying he was sorry for putting himself in a situation that led to his arrest and apologizing to the people affected.

“I believe I was wrong, and I am sorry,” Clark said in a conference call. “And the main reason why I am is because I put myself in the position where I shouldn’t have been. I’m not saying I did anything wrong as far as putting my hands on a woman, because the case played out how it did, and I’m sure it reflected that. … I don’t believe that no woman should ever, ever have to go through anything like it, anything domestic. I don’t think that … anyone should put their hands on a woman.”

[monkey]

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/05/frank_clark_discusses_domestic.html

In depth Frank Clark article about his troubles, by far the best I've read.

[NorthHawk]

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/05/frank_clark_discusses_domestic.html

In depth Frank Clark article about his troubles, by far the best I've read.

This makes me feel better about the player and his maturity level.
I hope his play can live up to the pick.

[RiverDog]

Here's the official police report on the incident, complete with photographs taken the night Clark was arrested:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246836579/Fra ... hotographs

I'd say that's some pretty compelling evidence that Clark is not telling the truth when he said he didn't strike her. I don't know how on Earth JS and PC could come to the conclusion that Clark was telling them the truth and rationalize the information contained in the police report, that the eyewitnesses were wrong, that there was a perfectly reasonable explanation as to how the apartment was in shambles and how else injuries to Clark and the girlfriend could have occurred if there wasn't a fight. I'm not saying that I'd vote guilty if he came to trial, but neither would I wrap my arms around Clark and declare that he is innocent and as pure as the wind driven snow as our beloved Hawks seemed to have done.

JS and PC are no different than any other GM or HC in the league. There are two primary objectives that the team has: To win championships and to make money in doing so. Any other stated rule, standard, or criteria will be set aside and/or a defensible excuse will be found if it comes in conflict with one or both of the two primary objectives. The end always justifies the means.

I'm not necessarily saying that they shouldn't have drafted him, only that they put aside this phoney standard of theirs that striking a woman is a "deal breaker" and quit insulting our intelligence.

[savvyman]

Once Clark gets his first sack he will be universally embraced by the 12th man and all will be forgotten.......

[RiverDog]

Once Clark gets his first sack he will be universally embraced by the 12th man and all will be forgotten.......

It depends on when that first sack occurs. If it comes in the 4th quarter during mop up duty in a blowout win/loss in Week 17, I don't think it's as likely to be forgotten as if it occurred in Week 1 in the first defensive series of the season, but I agree with the point you are making. If he plays well, we'll find ways to rationalize his behavior off the field.

[HumanCockroach]

I have zero idea what happened in that hotel room, and yes I did indeed read the report, and I did so prior to it being posted. Both parties involved had the same story when interviewed, the eye witnesses are two small children, who IMHO tend to not be the best of sources for information as they tend to get scared and exaggerate. Whether he did or didn't I have little idea, andif he did, then there is little I will or would say to defend the guy, but this is a prime example of judging without knowing any way, what actually happened in that room. Unless the woman says he hit her, he admits to hitting her, or someone reliable actually saw him hit her, just don't see how people feel comfortable condemning a person.


As for JC and JS, I have no way of knowing whom they talked to, or what those interviews consisted of. If the guy has no issues moving forward, Not sure how anyone can have issues with the guy. I prefer to give people a chance, prior to claiming to know them, inside and out. Irvin caught a TON of grief because of the red flags as well, and yet to the best of my knowledge he has not had a single off field issue to date.

[RiverDog]

I have zero idea what happened in that hotel room, and yes I did indeed read the report, and I did so prior to it being posted. Both parties involved had the same story when interviewed, the eye witnesses are two small children, who IMHO tend to not be the best of sources for information as they tend to get scared and exaggerate. Whether he did or didn't I have little idea, andif he did, then there is little I will or would say to defend the guy, but this is a prime example of judging without knowing any way, what actually happened in that room. Unless the woman says he hit her, he admits to hitting her, or someone reliable actually saw him hit her, just don't see how people feel comfortable condemning a person.


As for JC and JS, I have no way of knowing whom they talked to, or what those interviews consisted of. If the guy has no issues moving forward, Not sure how anyone can have issues with the guy. I prefer to give people a chance, prior to claiming to know them, inside and out. Irvin caught a TON of grief because of the red flags as well, and yet to the best of my knowledge he has not had a single off field issue to date.

I'm not sure who you are directing your comments towards, but I never said that I thought he was guilty. I merely said that I wouldn't wrap my arms around his version of the events and declare him innocent as JS and PC have done.

None of us know for sure what happened, but all the evidence in the police report is consistent with him and his GF having a fight that resulted in injuries to both of them.

Oh, and I wouldn't necessarily discount the two eyewitnesses simply because they are small children. Sometimes they can be more reliable to tell the truth than can adults. If their story is consistent with other evidence, such as the injuries on the two, the broken furniture, etc, then I would have no problem accepting their testimony as accurate.

Plus that's not the only red flag in his background. He plead guilty to 2nd degree felony home invasion and the stealing of a laptop computer.

[savvyman]

One thing for certain is we got no longer have any high ground from which to chirp at other teams for the dirtbags they've got.

For sure - see things they way they are folkes - Remember, we were the next stop on the itinerary of Greg Hardy's schedule after all (but Dallas kept him there until a contract was agreed upon)

[RiverDog]

One thing for certain is we got no longer have any high ground from which to chirp at other teams for the dirtbags they've got.

Yep. No more sniping at the Niners, Cowboys, and Patriots. We've lowered the bar.