The people who supported acquiring Harvin

[briwas101]

Should probably start working on their apologies for calling people like me an idiot for thinking it would turn out horribly.

It's one thing to disagree, but to repeatedly belittle anyone who dared to think for themselves and correctly assess the situation calls for an apology.

What's sad is that many people were sooooooooo sure Harvin was gonna turn out awesome for us even though so many of you didn't even know much about him.

Most people on this board were under the impression that Harvin is a good route-runner when in fact he CANNOT run anything but simple routes (in other words pretty much a straight line). I had paid attention to Harvin when he was a viking and I already knew he sucked at running routes and I said so repeatedly on this board and others. Instead of people doing research, I was called an idiot because "of course" Harvin is awesome at running routes.

Most people on this board were sooooo convinced that Harvin is a deep threat. Seriously? Had any of you watched a vikings game with Harvin before? He only occasionally ran deep routes. He was almost exclusively used within 5 yards of the LOS as a viking

Even during his second season as a Hawk most of you were saying, "darn you bevell, why aren't you using him like the vikings did?" Even though the Hawks WERE using him like the vikings did.

"Why is Bevell doing all this gimmick stuff with Harvin, let him stretch the field vertically." Even though they COULDN'T because he's never been that kind of "wr" .

Just because he has WR next to his name doesn't mean he knows how to be a wr. Just because he has a big name (I have no idea why, his career this far isn't that great) and makes a lot of $ doesn't mean he can actually do the things that WRs are supposed to do.

So for those of you who supported the Harvin trade, think about how sure you were that people like me were wrong and idiotic, and remember that you were wrong because you never actually paid attention to Harvin as a player, and remember that I was right all along because I did my homework.

[Hawktown]

[THX-1138]

If you wouldn't mind holding your breath I'll get right on that apology.

I think it's also worth noting that Harvin didn't get traded for a lack of talent. He got traded because he's an asshat. So your postulation above, though eloquent, is flawed.

[mykc14]

Should probably start working on their apologies for calling people like me an idiot for thinking it would turn out horribly.

It's one thing to disagree, but to repeatedly belittle anyone who dared to think for themselves and correctly assess the situation calls for an apology.

What's sad is that many people were sooooooooo sure Harvin was gonna turn out awesome for us even though so many of you didn't even know much about him.

Most people on this board were under the impression that Harvin is a good route-runner when in fact he CANNOT run anything but simple routes (in other words pretty much a straight line). I had paid attention to Harvin when he was a viking and I already knew he sucked at running routes and I said so repeatedly on this board and others. Instead of people doing research, I was called an idiot because "of course" Harvin is awesome at running routes.

Most people on this board were sooooo convinced that Harvin is a deep threat. Seriously? Had any of you watched a vikings game with Harvin before? He only occasionally ran deep routes. He was almost exclusively used within 5 yards of the LOS as a viking

Even during his second season as a Hawk most of you were saying, "darn you bevell, why aren't you using him like the vikings did?" Even though the Hawks WERE using him like the vikings did.

"Why is Bevell doing all this gimmick stuff with Harvin, let him stretch the field vertically." Even though they COULDN'T because he's never been that kind of "wr" .

Just because he has WR next to his name doesn't mean he knows how to be a wr. Just because he has a big name (I have no idea why, his career this far isn't that great) and makes a lot of $ doesn't mean he can actually do the things that WRs are supposed to do.

So for those of you who supported the Harvin trade, think about how sure you were that people like me were wrong and idiotic, and remember that you were wrong because you never actually paid attention to Harvin as a player, and remember that I was right all along because I did my homework.

Wow, keep on patting yourself on the back, way to be right! I know I supported the trade and never called anybody not supporting it an idiot. I also already knew all of those things about Harvin. I knew he wasn't a great route runner. I knew he wasn't a deep threat. I knew he had character issues. I also knew he was an amazing athlete and football player that had the potential to take our team to the next level. I knew he was a geat run blocker. I loved the idea that the Hawks were not resting on their laurels and were willing to take a big risk to win the SB. I thought RW's scrambling with Harvins elusiveness would negate some of that poor route running. I thought having Harvin out there would open up running lanes for Beast. I thought his teammates all loved him in Minny (besides maybe Ponder). I also thought getting his pay day combined with playing for a 'players coach' on a winning team would take care of the character concerns. On some of those issues I was right and on some I was wrong, but I don't think I owe anybody an apology for being wrong about any of that.

[FolkCrusader]

I supported the trade, probably still would given what we knew then. I never called you or anyone else an idiot, but after reading your post...

[HumanCockroach]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

Sun shine on a dogs ass

pick your favorite.

Don't remember an apology being offered to this board for your random inaccurate claims either. ( don't remember anyone calling you an "idiot", but certainly may have happened, considering some of the outlandish claims you have been known to post, as well as your inability to view anything objectively, once you don't like it, it's always the "worst" or a wasted this or that)

[NorthHawk]

Good reply, FolkCrusader.

I supported the trade because I understood that they wanted a game breaker (or Home Run Hitter if you want that analogy).
I thought it was worth the gamble at the time and I can't blame them for trying, but I thought the cost was a little steep.

[RiverDog]

I'm not into rubbing other posters nose in it by asking for apologies, after all, I've been wrong on many occasions on things like draft choices, decisions on who to start at QB ( I would have started Flynn, if you can believe that!), even on the hiring of our head coach, so for me, asking for an apology would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Plus this is a forum, a place to voice our opinions. What would it be like if we had to apologize about everything we were wrong about? I didn't apologize for my opinion about Pete Carroll so I see no justification in calling for an apology for other's opinion on the Harvin trade.

But it would be nice if some of those that supported the deal, which includes the vast majority of the regulars, would man up and admit that they were wrong like Bird did about the Harvin trade rather than continuing to rationalize it. I took one helluva lot of heat for my opposition to this trade, was lampooned by nearly everyone when I complained about Harvin being arrested for suspicion of DUI, called every name in the book during his hip injury fiasco, yet stuck to my guns and to what my gut was telling me rather than modify my opinion to conform with that of the majority. Even a broken clock is right twice a day? Come on, HC, you can do better than that.

[c_hawkbob]

No apologies here.

Thinking it was a good move at the time to bring in a wild card talent, watching it pay off in spades in the biggest game in team history, then agreeing with reversing the move (even at a net assets loss) when that wild card talent begins to erode team chemistry is not something in need of an apology.

IMO getting him was the right thing to do at the time, as was dumping his sorry arse, and I'm not sorry about either opinion.

[monkey]

Personally I would phrase it this way; getting him at that price was definitely not the right thing to do, BUT getting someone LIKE him, someone who is a super star game changing weapon...that is the right thing to do.
The thinking behind the move was right, even the thinking that in a good environment Pete could handle him was fine, (after all he'd done it before several times with several other players).

Face it, we got hosed in the initial trade to bring him here, and we shouldn't have because we had insider information, and not just any insider, but we had Darrell Bevell, the guy who actually designed the game plan week to week to use Harvin.
Clearly Bevell must have told Pete and John all about Harvin, and they all still came to the conclusion that they could handle him. You KNOW they didn't make the initial decision to go get him, willy nilly...no one decides to give up that much to get a player on a whim.
It was the very definition of calculated risk, one which backfired, but could just as easily have worked out to be awesome.

I personally don't blame them for the attempt to hit a home run there, they took a good cut at it. I just wish they'd tried hitting one out with a better character player.
I hope that this particular set back doesn't make them gun shy in the future.

[RiverDog]

No apologies here.

Thinking it was a good move at the time to bring in a wild card talent, watching it pay off in spades in the biggest game in team history, then agreeing with reversing the move (even at a net assets loss) when that wild card talent begins to erode team chemistry is not something in need of an apology.

IMO getting him was the right thing to do at the time, as was dumping his sorry arse, and I'm not sorry about either opinion.

So in other words, you weren't wrong about anything related to Percy Harvin, including your characterization, not even a week old, of my comments about Pete Carroll's remarks about some players not being ready to play as "digging for something that's not there"?

[RiverDog]

Personally I would phrase it this way; getting him at that price was definitely not the right thing to do, BUT getting someone LIKE him, someone who is a super star game changing weapon...that is the right thing to do.
The thinking behind the move was right, even the thinking that in a good environment Pete could handle him was fine, (after all he'd done it before several times with several other players).

Face it, we got hosed in the initial trade to bring him here, and we shouldn't have because we had insider information, and not just any insider, but we had Darrell Bevell, the guy who actually designed the game plan week to week to use Harvin.
Clearly Bevell must have told Pete and John all about Harvin, and they all still came to the conclusion that they could handle him. You KNOW they didn't make the initial decision to go get him, willy nilly...no one decides to give up that much to get a player on a whim.
It was the very definition of calculated risk, one which backfired, but could just as easily have worked out to be awesome.

I personally don't blame them for the attempt to hit a home run there, they took a good cut at it. I just wish they'd tried hitting one out with a better character player.
I hope that this particular set back doesn't make them gun shy in the future.

Good post, monkey. I, too, applaud Pete Carroll for trying to hit a home run, and said so at the time of the trade. I do hope Pete and JS take something away from this abortion, but like you, I don't want them to be hesitant if they see a situation where they honestly think they can improve the team, and I don't think they will.

[c_hawkbob]

So in other words, you weren't wrong about anything related to Percy Harvin, including your characterization, not even a week old, of my comments about Pete Carroll's remarks about some players not being ready to play as "digging for something that's not there"?

That (at least in my mind) was in the context of your making a big deal of Pete not naming names of players not ready to play as a sign that he was somehow not in control, not specifically about Harvin. Although having reread the thread in light of recent developments I can see how your alluding to Harvin was likely the case even though you had not said so at the time of that interchange.

At any rate, even though I stand by my previous posts in regard to supporting the move at the time, as well as the move to get rid of him; congratulations on being right about Harvin being a dick, you're clearly a genius and should never be doubted. I shall endeavor in the future to bear that in mind when tempted to disagree

[mykc14]

would man up and admit that they were wrong .

I think I did just that in my post above:

"I was wrong, but I don't think I owe anybody an apology for being wrong about any of that."

[Hawktown]

:(

I'm just going to stick with my original post on this one. Too bad they don't have a baby in a carriage emoticon crying...

[NorthHawk]

Personally I would phrase it this way; getting him at that price was definitely not the right thing to do, BUT getting someone LIKE him, someone who is a super star game changing weapon...that is the right thing to do.
The thinking behind the move was right, even the thinking that in a good environment Pete could handle him was fine, (after all he'd done it before several times with several other players).

Face it, we got hosed in the initial trade to bring him here, and we shouldn't have because we had insider information, and not just any insider, but we had Darrell Bevell, the guy who actually designed the game plan week to week to use Harvin.
Clearly Bevell must have told Pete and John all about Harvin, and they all still came to the conclusion that they could handle him. You KNOW they didn't make the initial decision to go get him, willy nilly...no one decides to give up that much to get a player on a whim.
It was the very definition of calculated risk, one which backfired, but could just as easily have worked out to be awesome.

I personally don't blame them for the attempt to hit a home run there, they took a good cut at it. I just wish they'd tried hitting one out with a better character player.
I hope that this particular set back doesn't make them gun shy in the future.

I wonder if Bevell has much influence. After all, if he told them exactly what Harvin was like then they could have at least held out for a better deal trade-wise. Maybe his personality isn't forceful enough or perhaps he thought the Seahawks organization could handle him, too.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not into rubbing other posters nose in it by asking for apologies, after all, I've been wrong on many occasions on things like draft choices, decisions on who to start at QB ( I would have started Flynn, if you can believe that!), even on the hiring of our head coach, so for me, asking for an apology would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Plus this is a forum, a place to voice our opinions. What would it be like if we had to apologize about everything we were wrong about? I didn't apologize for my opinion about Pete Carroll so I see no justification in calling for an apology for other's opinion on the Harvin trade.

But it would be nice if some of those that supported the deal, which includes the vast majority of the regulars, would man up and admit that they were wrong like Bird did about the Harvin trade rather than continuing to rationalize it. I took one helluva lot of heat for my opposition to this trade, was lampooned by nearly everyone when I complained about Harvin being arrested for suspicion of DUI, called every name in the book during his hip injury fiasco, yet stuck to my guns and to what my gut was telling me rather than modify my opinion to conform with that of the majority. Even a broken clock is right twice a day? Come on, HC, you can do better than that.

Sure I could, but the subject isn't worth the time. I liked the move, and have ZERO remorse about them making the move, to this day, just like I have ZERO remorse about them making the move to get him gone. I don't operate like those on here that don't "like" a move, and spend a year lambasting the move ( or longer) and I'm certainly not in the least going to offer up an apology to one so hell bent on one player ( that just last season was emphatically claiming another player (Wilson) had to have gameplansgame plans tailored to him because of his height, and professing his failures in the pocket). I simply will NOT do so. Just like if Irvin ends up not being re signed, or gets injured, I will not be giving you one.

I don't believe in the "critisize as many players as possible, or coaches, or picks, I'll be right at some point, now pat me on the back" form of posting. He ( and you) want to do so? Be my guest, don't expect me ( or others) to jump in and congradulate you though.

[monkey]

I wonder if Bevell has much influence. After all, if he told them exactly what Harvin was like then they could have at least held out for a better deal trade-wise. Maybe his personality isn't forceful enough or perhaps he thought the Seahawks organization could handle him, too.

My guess is Bevell really thought they could handle him. Where I have the MUCH bigger problem is Bevell's inability to create a game plan that uses his skills, after having him in Minnesota.
He knew better than ANYONE exactly what he was getting in terms of what Harvin can and cannot do. He knew darn good and well that in terms of running routes (the whole route tree) Harvin just isn't that guy, and yet he still advocated for getting him.
He KNEW Harvin wasn't able to go deep and that defenses could take advantage of that.
I'm more disappointed in Bevell's lack of ability to game plan for the guy HE WANTED and had already game planned for previously while paired with him in Minnesota, and for what had to be less than full disclosure when asked. However much actual influence he has can be debated, but we KNOW Pete and John got his input before making the move! We also know he advocated for bringing Sidney Rice here as well. Pete and John rely HEAVILY on the assistant coaches recommendations in personnel decisions, this has shown up in many cases such as Cable bringing Zack Miller with him and having a huge influence on the draft etc...

Right now I'd like to see Bevell kicked to the curb to be honest.
I'm extremely disappointed in him, and I was never a fan to begin with.

[THX-1138]

I love you guys, but expecting an apology on an internet comment forum is an exercise in futility. And I'll stand by my original post.

I loved the move initially and I kept myself hopeful that it would pan out. It didn't. If I said something that hurt someone's feelings I suppose I'm sorry. I'm sorry that perhaps some folks have insufficient skin thickness. I would also submit that continuing to belabor the Harvin situation is a further exercise in futility. It's over. Now it's time to move on.

I am of the opinion that while the season is definitely not over (I mean, looking at the schedule there still seem to be unplayed games) perhaps it's time to do a little "mid-season mini rebuild". We have young dudes. Norwood, Richardson, and yes, Helfet. As a matter of fact Helfet showed some decent hands against the Rams and that TD was a thing of beauty on both his and RW's part. With guys like Angry Doug and Kearse along with Lockette who can be explosive, it's time to explore how this group of receivers can play. Roll the dice a bit and it might just pay off big in the short term. I honestly can't say where Lynch's head is at. Was he actually near revolt at the news of PH going to the Jets? If so where is his head right now? because I think he needs to get back on the RW-PC page. I LOVE Lynch and his style of play, and I'm not suggesting they jettison him (yet-if he starts undermining the importance of Wilson or has an attitude that becomes an issue I might suggest something different). All can admit that his time as the principal RB in Seattle is limited. This season, maybe next season, with a very, very slim chance of his being here after that. I would rather address the issue sooner than later, like we did with Percy. And first and foremost---THE O LINE! Something has got to change. As much, if not more than their actual ability, is their propensity for stupid plays. Ability isn't going to get fixed this season so the focus has to be on eliminating their mistakes. Heck, reducing them by half would be an excellent start. And then next season I think we need to try and gather some FA's. I don't think Okung is going to improve. But heck,what I know about O lines and their players would fill a thimble.

[monkey]

Okung is CLEARLY playing through an injury and has been most of the season. It's a contract year, and he's trying to show that he can manage pain and play through it, but that, more than anything is why he seems to have regressed.
That is not to say I think we should look at resigning him...I am actually torn on that one. On one hand, the talent is CLEARLY there, when he's healthy, on the other hand, he's never healthy. I have no idea how much of that is just bad luck, but the fact that he's been playing through it this year, tells me that most of it probably is just bad luck with him.
His attitude is terrific, he's a truly high character kind of guy who I'd really like to see the team resign based just on personality and locker room presence. On hte other hand, his salary will be ridiculous, even after having a lousy year, and it might be smarter to let him walk and use the money on less expensive options.
Of course, if we keep avoiding using high round picks on the line, and keep on letting Cable pick his guys, it may be better to just resign Okung who we know can play when healthy...at least we know what we have with him.

I think the case could be made either way with equally good reasoning.

As for what you said about the receivers and seeing what we have there, I agree completely, and I would bet that is exactly what we are about to do. I think Pete wants to see what he has in Richardson and Norwood, AND SO DO I!

*quick aside* I'm actually thinking that we saw the start of the offensive turnaround against the Rams. I think Pete and Bevell are going to start cutting Wilson loose more than he has previously. When they let him, he's proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, that he is capable of carrying the team by himself. What we saw last week should have put to rest forever ANY debate over whether or not he's elite. He's become exactly what the media so desperately wanted RG3 to become. A QB with amazing ability to run, (like Vick or RG3) but with an amazing ability to shred a defense with his arm, (like Luck) and all while NOT making stupid costly mistakes. That puts him in a class BY HIMSELF. * Seriously, there's not ONE QB in the entire NFL with his skill set, not one QB who puts together the great arm, great accuracy, super high football IQ, speed, elusiveness in the pocket, and scrambling ability, with the ability to make HUGE throws, throw tons of touchdowns, all while keeping the mistakes to a minimum. Not one QB in the NFL can do what he can, not one. Andrew Luck is close, (he's a much better runner than people give him credit for being, but he throws way too many picks. Aaron Rodgers is close, he's a better pure passer than Wilson is, (for now), and underrated in terms of scrambling, but he's not nearly the runner that Wilson is.

I also really liked what I saw in Helfet, dude ran good routes, blocked just fine, and showed terrific hands. Wilson trusted him enough to throw that pass...I'd like to see them give him a shot at being the guy. We know that Miller is gone after this year, and Willson has some ability but has yet to really impress, especially as a blocker...I'd like to see Helfet get a legitimate shot before this year is over.

Regardless of how this season turns out, (and I still think we are going to make the playoffs, and have a very good shot at winning the West still as well), next year is setting up very nicely for us now that Harvin's salary will no longer be an issue.
I like the idea you suggest of taking this year to sort of "mini rebuild" while still trying to win now.

[THX-1138]

Of course I do agree with you on Okung. Maybe I'm being too reactionary in my attitude. I do think he seems to be a good guy and he does possess the skillset save for one thing: durability. At his position it is PARAMOUNT and he just hasn't proven he can play a season. The LT position has to be lock solid in terms of consistency i.e. the personnel never changes. If we're going to spend money at the position I think it's time to move on.

[rottweiler]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

Sun shine on a dogs ass

pick your favorite.

[obiken]

I cant remember, I believe I supported it but I had serious reservations for how much we gave up. Viks saw us coming.

[RiverDog]

That (at least in my mind) was in the context of your making a big deal of Pete not naming names of players not ready to play as a sign that he was somehow not in control, not specifically about Harvin. Although having reread the thread in light of recent developments I can see how your alluding to Harvin was likely the case even though you had not said so at the time of that interchange.

At any rate, even though I stand by my previous posts in regard to supporting the move at the time, as well as the move to get rid of him; congratulations on being right about Harvin being a dick, you're clearly a genius and should never be doubted. I shall endeavor in the future to bear that in mind when tempted to disagree

I most certainly did indicate that I was talking about Harvin. The last thing I said in our exchange was "What I don't comprehend (about why some players are not ready) is why the most explosive and feared player in the league is standing on the sidelines on multiple 3rd down plays in the 4th quarter in a tight ball game." But you're absolutely right that I felt that Pete's comments was a sign that he was losing control, and as evidenced by the reports that have come out since, there's no doubt that it indeed was starting to come apart at the seams. Pete was showing his hand in that presser as it was just a matter of days after he made those rather curious comments that he sent Harvin packing.

I didn't call you out in order to prove that I am a 'genius', nor was I attempting to embarrass you or anyone else that were pro Harvin. After all, you guys were in good company as I would estimate that at least 90% of my fellow 12's were on that side, and you personally are right far more often than you are wrong, and right much more often than I am. All I was trying to do was to get a couple of you good people to come down off your high horses and just once and admit to their error and hoped that my admission of being clearly wrong on a couple of issues with even greater impact on our team than Harvin, ie Carroll and Wilson, would make that journey a little easier.

[c_hawkbob]

you're absolutely right that I felt that Pete's comments was a sign that he was losing control, and as evidenced by the reports that have come out since, there's no doubt that it indeed was starting to come apart at the seams

Bingo, my response was about Pete and not about Harvin and you knew it, yet you still chose to call me out about "being wrong about Harvin", thus my consternation, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers ... Either way you were right, you nailed Harvin's character before it was popular to do so and I had argued that we just didn't know yet in previous exchanges, so congrats.

Still disagree that anything is or was "coming apart at the seams", I feel that's a pretty extreme overstatement of the negative; we had a problem and it was addressed, so now we move on. We hurt our overall position a little, but it's still plenty early enough to make this look like little more than a speed bump by the end of the season.

[Futureite]

Should probably start working on their apologies for calling people like me an idiot for thinking it would turn out horribly.

It's one thing to disagree, but to repeatedly belittle anyone who dared to think for themselves and correctly assess the situation calls for an apology.

What's sad is that many people were sooooooooo sure Harvin was gonna turn out awesome for us even though so many of you didn't even know much about him.

Most people on this board were under the impression that Harvin is a good route-runner when in fact he CANNOT run anything but simple routes (in other words pretty much a straight line). I had paid attention to Harvin when he was a viking and I already knew he sucked at running routes and I said so repeatedly on this board and others. Instead of people doing research, I was called an idiot because "of course" Harvin is awesome at running routes.

Most people on this board were sooooo convinced that Harvin is a deep threat. Seriously? Had any of you watched a vikings game with Harvin before? He only occasionally ran deep routes. He was almost exclusively used within 5 yards of the LOS as a viking

Even during his second season as a Hawk most of you were saying, "darn you bevell, why aren't you using him like the vikings did?" Even though the Hawks WERE using him like the vikings did.

"Why is Bevell doing all this gimmick stuff with Harvin, let him stretch the field vertically." Even though they COULDN'T because he's never been that kind of "wr" .

Just because he has WR next to his name doesn't mean he knows how to be a wr. Just because he has a big name (I have no idea why, his career this far isn't that great) and makes a lot of $ doesn't mean he can actually do the things that WRs are supposed to do.

So for those of you who supported the Harvin trade, think about how sure you were that people like me were wrong and idiotic, and remember that you were wrong because you never actually paid attention to Harvin as a player, and remember that I was right all along because I did my homework.

Like a man chasing a good looking woman, most fans think with their football dyk and not their mind. Scouts honor I nearly posted my 17-15 Rams W prediction here prior to the game. Despite the fact that it's prob 1 or 2 Ls I have predicted for them out of 10 or so games, I thought what's the point? I'll be a "troll", and any support I post to support my position will be a "lie".

This is how it goes. I honestly stopped posting on SfGate.com because a decent contingent of fans had to prove I was nit a "real" Niner fan. Haha can you imagine that? I am the biggest Niner homer ever.

I think this is how it goes in every city across the nation. Sports is like a drug. We get high when we win and crazy when someone snatches the Ws from us. Unless you post all positive rah rah BS, what you got for your Harvin opinion is to be expected. And the funny part is you were spot on the entire time

[Futureite]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

Sun shine on a dogs ass

pick your favorite.

Don't remember an apology being offered to this board for your random inaccurate claims either. ( don't remember anyone calling you an "idiot", but certainly may have happened, considering some of the outlandish claims you have been known to post, as well as your inability to view anything objectively, once you don't like it, it's always the "worst" or a wasted this or that)

Geez. Broken clock? You really pulled that anology? As if he was just grasping at straws here and got lucky?

You are the same guy that claimed Harvin's prior drama on highschool, college and then pro football teams was a concoction of my brain. Must be tough to just suck it up and admit you were not even open to consider the facts. It's not as if they were hard to find.

[Long Time Fan]

As if he was just grasping at straws here and got lucky?

. And the funny part is you were spot on the entire time

The only thing this thread was missing: Trollish ass kissing.

[HumanCockroach]

Tell you what Future, I'll apologise, once you have done so, with all of your inaccurate claims with all of your years. Better get started, there is a LOT of ground to cover..... LMFAO. I liked the trade then, and feel zero remorse about it, I like that they identified a problem, and took care of it now. Claiming "worst trade ever" ( which it isn't) immediately, and harping on it for a year and a half, doesn't lend me to offer an apology ( especially since over the top BS statements like that tend to rub me the wrong way, kind of like "Wilson can't carry a team" crapola you tend to spew whenever given the opportunity, luckily those instances are few and far between). Not offering an "apology" because I have NOTHING to apologise FOR.

Not going to pat someone on the back, for berating moves ( yeah there is a plural there big guy) and hitting on one. The broken clock statement covers this nicely.

[THX-1138]

Jesus with this apology BS. Get over it.

NEWSFLASH! Nobody on this board owes anybody else here a damn thing. What, did your feelings get hurt? Too bad. It's an internet comment forum. Quit whining like a bunch of spoiled 3 year olds. Did that hurt your feelings? Too bad again. Asking for apologies or acknowledgement of being correct. Seriously. These are grown people. If you're right just be satisfied in the knowledge. You want a little sticker of a star on the top of your homework, too?

Look, if someone says "Nice call predicting 'such and such'." go with that. But if nobody says a damn thing why do you have to think you're so special that someone should start a thread so that you can be praised? Here is a fact: If most of us walked past each other on the street we wouldn't even know it.

And of course I'm not advocating that we act rudely to each other. It's one of the things that keeps me coming back to this forum: thoughtful and intelligent USUALLY polite discourse. And no whining. Or some whining with the understanding that you're going to probably get hammered for it. I'm here to share my opinion and to be edified by people whom I have judged to possess a greater football knowledge than myself. And to be entertained. Complaints about being slighted aren't high on my enjoyment meter. Toughen up, buttercup. Life is hard so grab your helmet.

Within these walls there will be found truth.

[Long Time Fan]

Jesus with this apology BS. Get over it.

NEWSFLASH! Nobody on this board owes anybody else here a damn thing. What, did your feelings get hurt? Too bad. It's an internet comment forum. Quit whining like a bunch of spoiled 3 year olds. Did that hurt your feelings? Too bad again. Asking for apologies or acknowledgement of being correct. Seriously. These are grown people. If you're right just be satisfied in the knowledge. You want a little sticker of a star on the top of your homework, too?

Look, if someone says "Nice call predicting 'such and such'." go with that. But if nobody says a damn thing why do you have to think you're so special that someone should start a thread so that you can be praised? Here is a fact: If most of us walked past each other on the street we wouldn't even know it.

And of course I'm not advocating that we act rudely to each other. It's one of the things that keeps me coming back to this forum: thoughtful and intelligent USUALLY polite discourse. And no whining. Or some whining with the understanding that you're going to probably get hammered for it. I'm here to share my opinion and to be edified by people whom I have judged to possess a greater football knowledge than myself. And to be entertained. Complaints about being slighted aren't high on my enjoyment meter. Toughen up, buttercup. Life is hard so grab your helmet.

Within these walls there will be found truth.

Sticker of a star post.

[THX-1138]

Sad thing is I'll probably be the next guy b*tching about not getting his just due.

[Long Time Fan]

Sad thing is I'll probably be the next guy b*tching about not getting his just due.

No worries. I'm waiting for future to call me a kiss azz for calling him a kiss azz. This is afterall the thin skin thread.

[RiverDog]

Still disagree that anything is or was "coming apart at the seams", I feel that's a pretty extreme overstatement of the negative; we had a problem and it was addressed, so now we move on. We hurt our overall position a little, but it's still plenty early enough to make this look like little more than a speed bump by the end of the season.

If the article I posted this morning is true, that Harvin had refused instructions by his coaches to go in and play on three seperate occasions this season, and if the story about Beast being so incensed about the trade that he nearly didn't get on the team bus is true, about fights between teammates, locker room splits, etc, then I don't feel that 'coming apart of the seams' is all that radical of an analogy. But I won't argue about terms. Let's just say that it was a serious crisis that required prompt and drastic action, ie the trading of a star player in mid season for almost nothing in return.

Agreed about there being plenty of time to recover and turn this into nothing more than a speed bump. We're not even at the halfway mark yet. All it will take is to win a couple of games and players and fans alike will forget about Percy. We went 13-3 without him last year, there's no reason why we can't run off a 7 or 8 game winning streak.

[Hawktawk]

I recall being pretty excited about the Harvin trade initially. Then came the weed traffic stop thing and I sided with Percy. My attitude soured on him after the hip thing as I felt he was comfortable taking money to sit on his ass. Then I began to get excited again after his electrifying play in the super bowl. And now this, a trade for almost nothing on Friday afternoon before a Sunday game. PC and JS have a few get out of jail free cards after last seasons success and Harvin was a huge factor in the SB victory.They dont grow on trees as we have seen and are learning this season.


But seriously? This is one of the biggest NFL personnel disasters of all time. Its whistling in the graveyard to say it isn't. And its also clear that Harvin drove a wedge between Wilson and some of the other players as demonstrated by Lynches anger at the move and comments by other players.These type of things can only linger and winning a bunch is the only thing that will hold it together.

I'm not saying its impossible for the Hawks to have some success moving forward, much as the Hawks had some success after the Hutch debacle. But IMO there is no way in hell they can have as much success as they would have had with their 1st,3rd, and 7th round picks. Not to mention that carrying the huge salary Harvin commanded was almost certainly a factor in seeing talent and depth drained from the defense. And it makes the loss of Tate even more glaring now as he is emerging as a star in Detroit.Its a disaster.
I dont root for bad things to happen to players. But Harvin is such a system abuser, so little thankfulness for his God given gifts, such a disrespectful thug. If he got hit so hard his head flew off I would laugh right now. Id love to see his career ripped away from him. He doesn't deserve it. If he wants to take himself out of games I hope the football gods take him out of the league.

[c_hawkbob]

Bob Condotta @bcondotta
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Seahawks receiver Doug Baldwin says report Marshawn Lynch didn't want to get on bus after Harvin trade "is stupid.''
3:29 PM - 22 Oct 2014

18 Retweets 14 favorites

[HumanCockroach]

Yep. But this is what happens with a shocking move like this, at this point it is impossible to tell what is real or what isn't, yet many "fans" just buy it all, hook line and sinker, make professions like these guys will be lucky to win Six or seven wins, the team is falling apart, Wilson isn't liked because he has a positive attitude, or isn't black enough or some other stupid rumor, gossip or lie. Ultimately, regardless of how people felt about Harvin personally, they ARE professionals, they ARE champions, and the WILL perform better ( and already have if people are confused for some reason) .

[RiverDog]

Yep. But this is what happens with a shocking move like this, at this point it is impossible to tell what is real or what isn't, yet many "fans" just buy it all, hook line and sinker, make professions like these guys will be lucky to win Six or seven wins, the team is falling apart, Wilson isn't liked because he has a positive attitude, or isn't black enough or some other stupid rumor, gossip or lie. Ultimately, regardless of how people felt about Harvin personally, they ARE professionals, they ARE champions, and the WILL perform better ( and already have if people are confused for some reason) .

Agreed, which is why I've prefaced my remarks by saying "if true", and I am definitely not buying everything I hear hook, line, and sinker. I couldn't help but watch Lynch run last Sunday and wonder if he was going to be anything less than what we've come to expect because of the rumors we heard about his being incensed at the Harvin trade, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that if he was incensed at the trade, he sure didn't show it on the field. He ran like Beast always runs. I do think these guys are professionals and will do the best they can to put this issue behind them.

Nevertheless, I don't think everything in the Hawk locker room is peaches and cream, either. I look at these rumors like I look at other situations where all you have to go on is opinions and unsubstantiated accusations, and that is if they come from multiple, independent sources that they can't all be false, that something isn't right. If there's smoke, there's usually a fire.

Winning is critical. We lose this Sunday, it will be our 3rd loss in a row. That alone would imply that all is not right with the Hawks and whether true or not, the rumors will continue to dog us.

[HumanCockroach]

Seen plenty of smoke in my day, that meant pretty much nothing. Isn't Santa Clara supposed to be winless at this point?

[RiverDog]

Seen plenty of smoke in my day, that meant pretty much nothing. Isn't Santa Clara supposed to be winless at this point?

Speaking for myself, it's pretty hard to be selective in which rumors I believe and which ones I don't. I'm also not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that they don't exist. I'm not going to believe that Harvin got into a fight with Tate yet refuse to believe that Beast did not nearly refuse to get on the bus simply because I don't like what the latter one represents, ie a locker room split. There's just too much of this stuff coming out for it all to be nothing but smoke. There's so much of it that it's beginning not to matter if it's true or not, they can take on a life of their own. The rumors themselves can be very destructive, especially when they're getting as personal as some of those I've seen lately.

I've seen idle gossip destroy marriages when absolutely no infidelity existed. They cause people to get defensive, re-open past arguments, say things they don't mean, hurtful things that can't be taken back, and pretty soon the differences are irreconcilable. Now we are hearing about a much more personal, hurtful rumor, that some players feel that RW is not 'black' enough. That has to go straight to Russell's heart. These rumors are very concerning to me, and as Hawktalk states, have the potential to rip this team apart, and I am not taking them as lightly as you are.

God, I hate this Harvin trade...the one that brought him here, that is. It's the worst decision Pete's made since taking over. Talk about an experiment blowing up in our face.