I'd trade Russell Wilson for Andrew Luck.

[burrrton]

He makes it look so easy that you look up thinking he's playing decent and he's 11-13 for 153 in less than a half.

You also hear he had an outrageous game that's going to put him in the HOF next year, so you check the numbers and find out he barely completed half his passes but threw the ball 60 times.

Luck is indeed finally having a good year (and RW is finally, for you, having a down year), but his reputation often outshines his numbers.

[Futureite]

Burtin;

I think stepping onto a 2-14 team and leading to an 11 win season while throwing 4,000+ yds and 23 TDs as a rookie is pretty good. I don't think Kap or Wilson could do the same on that 2012 Colts team now, in yr 3. In fact, neither is on pace to do it with much better teams in 2014. We'll each do great to get to 11 wins.

Let's be certain too. That Colt D is absolutely terrible, and it has 0% to do with Luck. They were giving up 5, 7 and 10 yd chunks on the ground all game ladt night. Gave up 50 to Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. Neither Kap nor Wilson could pick up the slack on a team like that. Maybe in the future, but certainly not now.

Just my opinion.

[obiken]

Anthony we have 3 great posters on this forum: HS, C-Bob, and River. So don't call him garbage again, or you will get a full verbal retaliatory response.

[Anthony]

Anthony we have 3 great posters on this forum: HS, C-Bob, and River. So don't call him garbage again, or you will get a full verbal retaliatory response.

I was talking about Future, and you are now defending him and threatening me. Hmm tell you what go for it, others can call him a troll and far worse and I say he is a garbage man and you want to start something over it, go for it.

[obiken]

I was talking about Future[/quote] Oh sorry guy that's different!

[obiken]

This is a dumb thread for 3 reasons.
1. The Colts wouldn't do it.
2. One already has a SB and the other doesn't.
3. Both FOffices would lose all credibility.

[HumanCockroach]

Burtin;

I think stepping onto a 2-14 team and leading to an 11 win season while throwing 4,000+ yds and 23 TDs as a rookie is pretty good. I don't think Kap or Wilson could do the same on that 2012 Colts team now, in yr 3. In fact, neither is on pace to do it with much better teams in 2014. We'll each do great to get to 11 wins.

Let's be certain too. That Colt D is absolutely terrible, and it has 0% to do with Luck. They were giving up 5, 7 and 10 yd chunks on the ground all game ladt night. Gave up 50 to Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. Neither Kap nor Wilson could pick up the slack on a team like that. Maybe in the future, but certainly not now.

Just my opinion.

Back here again? Why?

[Anthony]

Burtin;

I think stepping onto a 2-14 team and leading to an 11 win season while throwing 4,000+ yds and 23 TDs as a rookie is pretty good. I don't think Kap or Wilson could do the same on that 2012 Colts team now, in yr 3. In fact, neither is on pace to do it with much better teams in 2014. We'll each do great to get to 11 wins.

Let's be certain too. That Colt D is absolutely terrible, and it has 0% to do with Luck. They were giving up 5, 7 and 10 yd chunks on the ground all game ladt night. Gave up 50 to Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. Neither Kap nor Wilson could pick up the slack on a team like that. Maybe in the future, but certainly not now.

Just my opinion.

If they were a real 2-14 team and not just the team that sucked for luck. You know it is funny how you always bring up how bad the Indy D is as an excuse why luck is so great but never add in his top 10 pass blocking oline, or top 10 wr corps, or his easy schedule, or pass happy offense. FYI Indy is only giving up 3 more points per game than we are so they are not so bad.


Let try this the easy way for you

Easier schedule LUCK
oline LUCK
WR LUCK
Offense scheme LUCK
RB Wilson
Defense Wilson

Hmm so luck who is a QB has the better oline, wr, and scheme and easier schedule, Wilson has the better RB. Even you can see how Luck has a huge advantage over Wilson with regards to offensive talent around him.

I agree with you Kap could not he already has great WR. However Wilson with those Wrs and oline and play calling heck yeah he could no doubt about it.

You see here is the difference I agree Luck is having a better year finally than Wilson. You are unwilling to admit he has much more talent around him and an easier schedule and that, that might also be a factor. However you had no problem trying to use it for his rookie year and now using it on his defense. You are a hyprocrite using lack of talent when it helps Luck but not using it when it does not. That is why you are joke here, you spew garbage.

You put Wilson in the AFC with that WR corps and oline and he is lighting it up as well. You put Luck on this team with this oline and WR corps and luck is not doing well at all. Sorry but that is the truth.

[Anthony]

:oops:


I was talking about Future

Oh sorry guy that's different![/quote]


No worries dude were good

[Anthony]

Back here again? Why?

Because though he says he would leave if we asked and we have he is not man enough to keep his word. He prefers the lies, and hypocritical statements he makes

[HumanCockroach]

I was talking about the "2-14" argument.

[Anthony]

I was talking about the "2-14" argument.

ahh got it.

[Futureite]

HC;

Well, River stated he is fine with my posting. As have others. If it were consensus, I would go. But as of now it's not.

Anthony;

Luck's WR corp is far from top 10. Nicks barely drew interest in FA and he had 1 career 1,000 yd season. Luck's line is top 10 in the same way Peyton's is. Each guy gets rid of the ball so quickly that the Oline appears better than it is. The opposite occurs with Wilson. He bolts at the first sign of pressure to create the appearance of an Oline that is playing much worse than it is. I watched Jeff Garcia do this for yrs and it was one of my primary critiques of him.

Kap may have weapons, but we have 3 guys in the top 30 in dropped passes. Seattle had none. Kap has been sacked the most times in the NFL. Our line has been the worst pass protecting group of any. I am not making excuses. Just drawing to light that all QBs deal with unique challenges.

In the end a lot of these complaints are just excuses. Again, this is my honest opinion. Luck is miles ahead of these guys. Your guy has the ring, and that's what really matters...so who cares?

[Long Time Fan]

Boy, you sure kicked the hornet's nest on this topic.

My only regret in starting this thread is it becoming Future bait for his ill-intended purposes. Its no coincidence that he joined in after last week's SF win.

How can you fault find a thread that brings this much input; after a stumbling start there was meritorious input. Now future has turned it into a quagmire.

[RiverDog]

See, this is exactly the sort of opinion statement that Wilson bashers toss around, with ZERO supporting evidence, which drive me crazy.
How can you even make that claim? On the face of it, it is completely ridiculous!

Fine...since it's apparently OK for you guys to make entirely unsubstantiated claims, and present them as facts, I'll make one.

Without Russell Wilson extending literally EVERY FREAKING PASS PLAY with his legs, virtually no one would ever get open, and Wilson would be sacked or hurried constantly! Without Wilson constantly making our receivers look better than they really are, by extending EVERY SINGLE FREAKING PLAY, we'd have no passing game at all.


Hey, this just making crap up stuff is fun! I think I'll just keep doing it!

Wilson basher? So you think my statement is false, that he IS elevating the play of others, in particular, his receivers? Can you substantiate just who's game you think he's elevated? Where's your facts to counter my statement?

The "fact" is that my statement is an opinion, and does not require any factual evidence to support it.

[obiken]

River, Superman had Kyptonite, you have Futurite, I had Tailgator!! Hee hee.

[HumanCockroach]

HC;

Well, River stated he is fine with my posting. As have others. If it were consensus, I would go. But as of now it's not.

Anthony;

Luck's WR corp is far from top 10. Nicks barely drew interest in FA and he had 1 career 1,000 yd season. Luck's line is top 10 in the same way Peyton's is. Each guy gets rid of the ball so quickly that the Oline appears better than it is. The opposite occurs with Wilson. He bolts at the first sign of pressure to create the appearance of an Oline that is playing much worse than it is. I watched Jeff Garcia do this for yrs and it was one of my primary critiques of him.

Kap may have weapons, but we have 3 guys in the top 30 in dropped passes. Seattle had none. Kap has been sacked the most times in the NFL. Our line has been the worst pass protecting group of any. I am not making excuses. Just drawing to light that all QBs deal with unique challenges.

In the end a lot of these complaints are just excuses. Again, this is my honest opinion. Luck is miles ahead of these guys. Your guy has the ring, and that's what really matters...so who cares?

Not surprised, parameters change whenever you see fit. By the way, I didn't ask you to leave, never have, and never will do so, no matter how blatant a troll is, I don't do that ( see CPReturns) that said, you might want to watch how blatant you are with what you say, false claims, outright lies, insults etc, because while I will never be that guy, some will indeed grow to the point of pushing you out.

I could care less about your insults, or even your blatant false half truths, or even incindarary comments, I draw the line at putting words into my posts, that aren't there, claiming I have bias' I don't, professing an unbiased view that is factually, and clearly incorrect, misrepresenting what other posters on this board have said, or flat out lying about things that have been said, or done by players on this team ( the one this board is dedicated to). While it makes me sick to me stomach the amount of times you claim an "unbiased" view, or makes me puke with the amount of pompousness with the way you conduct your posting, I'll never be one to force you from this board.

When you are blatantly doing the things described above I will indeed call you a troll ( as that IS what you are being when posting the half truths, or lies that are incindiary, especially when choosing to ignore the facts or stats or other side of a debate that YOU start) or a liar ( should you blatantly lie, as you have done numerous times) but force you to leave? Report you continuously? Nah, not my style.

[RiverDog]

River;

You are right. I have just had a ton of stress with work, relationship, possible career change. But it's not an excuse. I am as guilty as anyone of going back and forth.

I think both of our QBs have been a bit of a disappointment. They are "good", but not showing signs of elite pocket skills. Of course this is only yr 3 and the supporting cast has not helped at times, but you look at a guy like Rodgers who throws for 66% completion and makes all of these average guys look like stars and our guys look miles from that.

What struck me watching Luck last night was how consistently accurate he is pushing the ball downfield and how good his footwork is. He moves just slightly to avoid pressure and can reposition his body in an instant to move off of his primary read and fire the ball. He makes it look so easy that you look up thinking he's playing decent and he's 11-13 for 153 in less than a half. And I agree about his surrounding talent. Reggie Wayne looks very slow now. Fleener is a big body target but not an elite guy that creates separation. Nicks is and has always been solid and a big play threat, but not a perenniel probowler. The one guy they have who is outstanding in Hilton. One of the better slot receivers in the game. But IMHO a lot of why he is playing that way is due to Luck.

Oh well. Both our teams are in the thick of the race. So we have that.

New England had a lot more of a running threat than did the Colts. That game wouldn't have been as close as it was had Brady not done his finest Rex Grossman impression by throwing that duck up there at the end of the first half. Indy isn't as good as I thought they were, either on offense or on defense. They don't look playoff-quality to me. I'll admit that I haven't watched them as closely as I have the NFC teams, but they do not look to be loaded with talent on either side of the ball. I agree that the AFC is weaker, at least as it stands today. How about that number the Rams did on the Broncos?

As far as our own chances, I'm going to conform to my reputation as being a chronic pessimist. We've lost Mebane and Miller for the season and have yet to get Wagner back (hopefully back this week), we've gone 3-3 in our last 6 beating only the weakest teams on our schedule, with the toughest remaining schedule in the league, and a full 3 games behind the Cards. Damn, that Super Bowl jinx. It's gonna be a cold winter.

[Anthony]

HC;

Well, River stated he is fine with my posting. As have others. If it were consensus, I would go. But as of now it's not.

Anthony;

Luck's WR corp is far from top 10. Nicks barely drew interest in FA and he had 1 career 1,000 yd season. Luck's line is top 10 in the same way Peyton's is. Each guy gets rid of the ball so quickly that the Oline appears better than it is. The opposite occurs with Wilson. He bolts at the first sign of pressure to create the appearance of an Oline that is playing much worse than it is. I watched Jeff Garcia do this for yrs and it was one of my primary critiques of him.

Kap may have weapons, but we have 3 guys in the top 30 in dropped passes. Seattle had none. Kap has been sacked the most times in the NFL. Our line has been the worst pass protecting group of any. I am not making excuses. Just drawing to light that all QBs deal with unique challenges.

In the end a lot of these complaints are just excuses. Again, this is my honest opinion. Luck is miles ahead of these guys. Your guy has the ring, and that's what really matters...so who cares?

Garbage as usual, do not like the to 10 deal with ESPN sorry as usual you are wrong and a waste. Your opinion is worthless as you have no facts to support you your garbage as usual

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/6/716 ... elp-bandit

oh just se we understand WR corps deal with this form NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... ad-the-way

Notice number 5 Indy Also notice no Hawks


Enough said Luck is great and has all the talent around him any great QB needs. Wilson is great but does not all the talent Fact deal with it. Your opinion is what is it worthless no facts to support it. My facts show you to be wrong

[Anthony]

Wilson basher? So you think my statement is false, that he IS elevating the play of others, in particular, his receivers? Can you substantiate just who's game you think he's elevated? Where's your facts to counter my statement?

The "fact" is that my statement is an opinion, and does not require any factual evidence to support it.

River this is really easy Kearse up till this year was doing well and that was all because of Rw, Heck Rw has even impacted Lynch. Without RW this whole offense would be really bad with this oline any fool can see that. Every game you get plays were the announcers say it was all Rw, that mean she made play that helped the team and a player. Heck if it was not for Rw helping Tate to look good and grow as a WR he would not have gotten his contract in Detroit. FYI Helfet is having his best year and guess who that is because? RW. The whole statement and argument is stupid. However since your so smart please tell me which WR is stepping up?> Making plays. All the great QBs has some Wr making plays stepping up who here is doing that? Answer NOONE

[Anthony]

New England had a lot more of a running threat than did the Colts. That game wouldn't have been as close as it was had Brady not done his finest Rex Grossman impression by throwing that duck up there at the end of the first half. Indy isn't as good as I thought they were, either on offense or on defense. They don't look playoff-quality to me. I'll admit that I haven't watched them as closely as I have the NFC teams, but they do not look to be loaded with talent on either side of the ball. I agree that the AFC is weaker, at least as it stands today. How about that number the Rams did on the Broncos?

As far as our own chances, I'm going to conform to my reputation as being a chronic pessimist. We've lost Mebane and Miller for the season and have yet to get Wagner back (hopefully back this week), we've gone 3-3 in our last 6 beating only the weakest teams on our schedule, with the toughest remaining schedule in the league, and a full 3 games behind the Cards. Damn, that Super Bowl jinx. It's gonna be a cold winter.

Indy has more talent on offense then we do

[c_hawkbob]

Wilson basher? So you think my statement is false, that he IS elevating the play of others, in particular, his receivers? Can you substantiate just who's game you think he's elevated? Where's your facts to counter my statement?

The "fact" is that my statement is an opinion, and does not require any factual evidence to support it.

Yes I absolutely think you're wrong. I also think you're a Wilson basher, at least when it suits you to be. How can you watch a guy extend plays like Russ does, scrambling around for five or six or seven seconds and then hitting a receiver 30 yards downfield perfectly in stride or along the sideline where only the receiver can make the catch and ask how he makes those around him better? With 90% of QB's such a play would simply be a sack or at best an incompletion. How can you watch him break record after record so early in his career and ask how he's making those around him better? His success is everyone's success. He runs for 100 and passes for 300 and it makes the entire offense shine, not just himself. And on the sideline, watch him lift up players, direct players and provide provide a spark when things are looking grim.

Aside from those things, hearing so many others around the NFL talk about these same things and express the specific opinion that he does make everyone around him better makes it real easy for me to roll my eyes when you say what you say and simply attribute it to you being you.

[Anthony]

Yes I absolutely think you're wrong. I also think you're a Wilson basher, at least when it suits you to be. How can you watch a guy extend plays like Russ does, scrambling around for five or six or seven seconds and then hitting a receiver 30 yards downfield perfectly in stride or along the sideline where only the receiver can make the catch and ask how he makes those around him better? With 90% of QB's such a play would simply be a sack or at best an incompletion. How can you watch him break record after record so early in his career and ask how he's making those around him better? His success is everyone's success. He runs for 100 and passes for 300 and it makes the entire offense shine, not just himself. And on the sideline, watch him lift up players, direct players and provide provide a spark when things are looking grim.

Aside from those things, hearing so many others around the NFL talk about these same things and express the specific opinion that he does make everyone around him better makes it real easy for me to roll my eyes when you say what you say and simply attribute it to you being you.

And that's why Bobs the man. GREAT POST!!

[monkey]

Yes I absolutely think you're wrong. I also think you're a Wilson basher, at least when it suits you to be. How can you watch a guy extend plays like Russ does, scrambling around for five or six or seven seconds and then hitting a receiver 30 yards downfield perfectly in stride or along the sideline where only the receiver can make the catch and ask how he makes those around him better? With 90% of QB's such a play would simply be a sack or at best an incompletion. How can you watch him break record after record so early in his career and ask how he's making those around him better? His success is everyone's success. He runs for 100 and passes for 300 and it makes the entire offense shine, not just himself. And on the sideline, watch him lift up players, direct players and provide provide a spark when things are looking grim.

Aside from those things, hearing so many others around the NFL talk about these same things and express the specific opinion that he does make everyone around him better makes it real easy for me to roll my eyes when you say what you say and simply attribute it to you being you.

Thanks Bob, great response!

The fact that he extends virtually every single play makes EVERY receiver on our team better than they actually are. I personally like Doug Baldwin for example, I think that with his work ethic, and his quick get off the line skills, he could be a good starting slot receiver for most NFL teams...but let's face it, he's NOT a superstar WR, by any stretch of the imagination. And yet, he's BY FAR the best receiver on this team! Wilson has CLEARLY helped to make Baldwin better.
Kearse isn't even a fourth receiver on most teams, he's just not very good, and yet with Wilson's ability to extend plays, Kearse has CLEARLY benefited as a receiver. Wilson has obviously helped to make Kearse a better WR than he is!

[RiverDog]

The fact that he extends virtually every single play makes EVERY receiver on our team better than they actually are. I personally like Doug Baldwin for example, I think that with his work ethic, and his quick get off the line skills, he could be a good starting slot receiver for most NFL teams...but let's face it, he's NOT a superstar WR, by any stretch of the imagination. And yet, he's BY FAR the best receiver on this team! Wilson has CLEARLY helped to make Baldwin better.
Kearse isn't even a fourth receiver on most teams, he's just not very good, and yet with Wilson's ability to extend plays, Kearse has CLEARLY benefited as a receiver. Wilson has obviously helped to make Kearse a better WR than he is!

You might be able to make a case for Kearse, but not Baldwin. DB led our team in receptions when he was a rookie playing for TJack. I don't see his play under Wilson as improving substantially over his rookie season. Both him and Baldwin are OK receivers, but they're run-of-the-mill, garden variety receivers, and neither have taken that next step.

CBob, you're completely wrong about my sentiments about Russell. I am not 'bashing' him. You tend to overlook the positive things I've said about him, ie that he's the best quarterback for our team, that I wouldn't trade him for Luck, that I am in favor of resigning him and building our offense around him, that he's my favorite player since Largent, and so on. You cherry pick specific statements I make about him then hold them up as representative of my overall opinion while completely glossing over all the positive things I've said about him over the past 2.5 years.

For whatever reason, whether you want to blame the OL, our WR's, the refs, the weather, injuries, bad luck, or whatever, Russell's play has not been as good this season as it was in 2013 and in the latter part of the 2012 season. I do not think he is the entire problem or even our biggest problem, but he is part of the problem. He's the guy playing at the most influential position and has to take at least some of the responsibility for what at this point is a disappointing season. Some of you aren't holding him responsible for anything and defend him as if he's some sort of infallible God.

[c_hawkbob]

CBob, you're completely wrong about my sentiments about Russell. I am not 'bashing' him. You tend to overlook the positive things I've said about him, ie that he's the best quarterback for our team, that I wouldn't trade him for Luck, that I am in favor of resigning him and building our offense around him, that he's my favorite player since Largent, and so on. You cherry pick specific statements I make about him then hold them up as representative of my overall opinion while completely glossing over all the positive things I've said about him over the past 2.5 years.

No I don't overlook the positive things you've said, which is why I added "when it suits you to be". I'm not cherry picking anything, I'm answering your question as it was posed, nothing more or less.

For whatever reason, whether you want to blame the OL, our WR's, the refs, the weather, injuries, bad luck, or whatever, Russell's play has not been as good this season as it was in 2013 and in the latter part of the 2012 season. I do not think he is the entire problem or even our biggest problem, but he is part of the problem. He's the guy playing at the most influential position and has to take at least some of the responsibility for what at this point is a disappointing season. Some of you aren't holding him responsible for anything and defend him as if he's some sort of infallible God.

Not disputing any of that except the last sentence which is pure inflammatory BS and just another eye roller.

Of course it's a collective issue that we're having, the primary IMO being injuries compounded by having let some of the wrong people go to free agency, but none of all the factors you listed equals Russ failing to make those around him better, he is still that guy. You pay lip service to our other issues but you seem to want to make it all about Russ. The fact that the team is struggling is more about circumstances beyond his control than about what he'd doing on the field, even if his play isn't as stellar as it has been.

[RiverDog]

Not disputing any of that except the last sentence which is pure inflammatory BS and just another eye roller.

Of course it's a collective issue that we're having, the primary IMO being injuries compounded by having let some of the wrong people go to free agency, but none of all the factors you listed equals Russ failing to make those around him better, he is still that guy. You pay lip service to our other issues but you seem to want to make it all about Russ. The fact that the team is struggling is more about circumstances beyond his control than about what he'd doing on the field, even if his play isn't as stellar as it has been.

Well, at least now you are admitting that his play is not what we have come to expect. Up until now, you haven't seen a single thing that he's done wrong or that needs improvement, at least nothing that I've seen, which is why I used the term "infallible God". If either you, Monkey, or Roach want to point out one tiny critical thing in the past two years that you good folks have said about Russell's play that was anything less than perfect, then I'll gladly take back that remark. And please, be specific.

[Anthony]

Well, at least now you are admitting that his play is not what we have come to expect. Up until now, you haven't seen a single thing that he's done wrong or that needs improvement, at least nothing that I've seen, which is why I used the term "infallible God". If either you, Monkey, or Roach want to point out one tiny critical thing in the past two years that you good folks have said about Russell's play that was anything less than perfect, then I'll gladly take back that remark. And please, be specific.

We have all said his play has not been what it ha been, and that he has struggled the difference is we also see there are other issues compunding the problems beyond RWs control. IN other words it is nto all him casueing this. All QBs will have bad games, that is usually when someone else ont he team steps up, but on this team there is noone to step up in the passing game. Ther eis no Gronk to make that great play and maybe change hwo thigns are going, there is no TY, No Thomas, No Nelosn, etc. Rw has noone who can step up there game unless he steps it up for them. That is the point we are making. Yes Rw up till last game struggeked for 3 games. However alot of that was not on him. Now some is, the biggest issue to me is pressing knowing he was not geting any help. BUt a lot was not him. Look at Brady early on in the yar he struggled. Then he got on the same page with Edelman who made a few great plays, then Gronk came back and made a few gerat plays and not they are rolling. This past Sunday there were a few plays that could hav ebeen made by our WR that were not. There in lies one of the problems. Think about it this all started after the Rams game were Rw was lights out and we lost, why becasue the oline and Wr did not make plays when needed. I am sure that got into RWs head and for the next few games he tried to do to much. It is easy to do that when you WRs are not getting open, or making plays, or catcing catchable balls, or your oline is not blocking. You press and try to do to much, try to be to perfect and usualy when you try to be to perfect you end up not doing well. So yes Rw shares some ofthe blame here, as do the WR, play calling, oline, and play design.

[c_hawkbob]

Well, at least now you are admitting that his play is not what we have come to expect. Up until now, you haven't seen a single thing that he's done wrong or that needs improvement, at least nothing that I've seen, which is why I used the term "infallible God". If either you, Monkey, or Roach want to point out one tiny critical thing in the past two years that you good folks have said about Russell's play that was anything less than perfect, then I'll gladly take back that remark. And please, be specific.

Total BS. Now it's you who have not been reading what I've actually written. Stop patting yourself on the back, you didn't get me to say anything new at all. I have several times this year acknowledged that our Passing game is off or that Wilson still has to sharpen things up a bit, I just choose not to dwell on it or to include it in everything I write.

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:09 am

We were a bad team in the first half, at least by our standards at home ... but we held the game close while we worked out some kinks and after the half we were a badass team! Our run blocking, particularly with Unger back in there, was phenomenal!, some of those holes I could have limped through for a score. We still need to dial in our passing game a bit, but if this is what we're going to look like with our guys coming back I like our chances.

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am

As for deifying Wilson, I'm sorry that you're fed up with hearing how good he is and I understand the instinct to push back, but this conversation is about a single play, not Wilson's game (which was marginally below the standard he has set for himself) or his performance to this point of his career (which is still exemplary), just this one single play and it is what it is, no matter how much you want it to be something else.

If I had the time or the inclination I'd put up more examples, but I don't. Go back and read up on it for yourself.

I don't dump on the guy because I don't think he deserves it (just like I didn't dump on Hass or Alexander) but I see what everyone else sees and at least acknowledge on occasion that Russ ain't perfect. And quite frankly I'm getting pretty tired of your " infallible god" and "deifying" crap, stop it. Just because I don't dump on him to prove how "real" I can be doesn't mean I don't see and even occasionally remark on his imperfections. I don't need to, you do more than enough of it for everybody.

[HumanCockroach]

And quite frankly I'm getting pretty tired of your " infallible god" and "deifying" crap, stop it. Just because I don't dump on him to prove how "real" I can be doesn't mean I don't see and even occasionally remark on his imperfections. I don't need to, you do more than enough of it for everybody.

c_hawkbob
Legacy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:34 pm
Location: K-evil Kentucky, 42053

Hallelujah! Thank you.

[obiken]

1. Russell is the GUY. Get over it. It would take over 2 seasons of average play to get rid of him. NOT going to happen.
2. We are NOT trading him for Luck, that's NOT going to happen.
3. No reason to call anyone out over this hypothetical that is dumb, we are all just posters in here. (Or poster children for no lives!)

[Hawktawk]

1. Russell is the GUY. Get over it. It would take over 2 seasons of average play to get rid of him. NOT going to happen.
2. We are NOT trading him for Luck, that's NOT going to happen.
3. No reason to call anyone out over this hypothetical that is dumb, we are all just posters in here. (Or poster children for no lives!)

Russell is our guy. And he is so unique in his style and approach and lifestyle that he will always generate controversy. All he has done is win and make amazing play after amazing play. Has he missed some? yeah. But cripes anyone debating his supporting cast vs Lucks is on drugs.Lynch is the only guy who is an upgrade but Wilson helps him as much as he helps Wilson.The offensive line is a joke with all the injuries. The receivers? Come on... Doug we love you and we remember your pedestrians walking our ass to the SB. But you are pedestrian........Tate was the only guy on the roster that could even begin to think about getting separation in traffic or taking the top off the defense. Now we have Lockette who cant crack the lineup and Richardson who cannot catch as proven by the 4th and 19 ball that RW put right on his 2nd round hands.........That flip to Lynch out of the end zone while being yanked to the ground ,Dude I dont care how that drive ended that was a play only a champion makes. RWs the guy and Luck can pass for 500 yards a game but until he has a Lombardi or more than 1 playoff win he cant carry Wilson's jock strap.Dumb argument.

[Distant Relative]

Man I need more popcorn for this.

Ok, carry on.

[monkey]

If either you, Monkey, or Roach want to point out one tiny critical thing in the past two years that you good folks have said about Russell's play that was anything less than perfect, then I'll gladly take back that remark. And please, be specific.

You cannot be serious! Riv, please stop with this! Clearly you read what you want to read, because I have indeed pointed out when Russell Wilson's play wasn't up to par. Many times.
In fact, we ALL HAVE! I've read posts from Bob and Anthony and whoever else you want to mention, describing ways in which Wilson's play wasn't up to par.

The question I'd like you to answer is, why you get all bent out of shape, and constantly nitpick his play every week. Why do you seemingly find such joy in finding and pointing out every little fault with his play every week?
It's weird man...I don't get it.

[Futureite]

This debate is comparable to a college graduate's professional development. You can graduate with a degree in conputer science and have all the nuts and bolts in your head to be a great engineer, but you ain't going to become one working at Radio Shack. Same thing for a business/accounting major who works at HR Bkock. Doesn't matter how much potential you have. You won't develop.

Can we agree here??

Same thing holds true for the business itself. Radio Shack is not going to hire an engineer to sell transistor radios and soldering wire. HR Block is not going to hire a tax attorney to prepare returns.

Agree?

Equating this to football, sure, Russell Wilson could be great if he were developed. Who really knows. But he ain't going to develop into what he could be running freaking read options and gimic plays and throwing short, high percentage routes. And Pete Carroll doesn't want or need him to be Drew Brees. He wants him to be the guy who makes his business model go. And Pete Carroll's business model has ALWAYS been defense and physical run game. Your entire team reflects that in its personnell. It does not reflect an organization that wants to develop or build around a franchise QB.

Luck is the opposite case. That entire organization has put everything on his shoulders and worked to develop him. Everything about that team is built in the same way it was for Peyton; around the QB. Their business model has ALWAYS been QB centric, and of course their QBs develop to a higher degree than a run oriented team's would. This is all common sense.

A perfect comparable is Drew Brees. He had one above average season under Shottenheimer, who has a coaching philosophy similar to Carrol's. His career did not truly skyrocket until he had been under Payton a couple yrs. And that was not simply due to an infusion of more O talent (as some insist in the argument at hand). Brees had talent in SD. It was due to his accelerated learnng curve and growth as a QB under Payton's O.

To put it simply, Luck is obviously the most physically gifted young QB in the league. He also has a natural feel for how to play the position. Now you combine those variables with a system that runs entirely through him and forces his learning curve through complexity, volume and repetition, and you have the formula to create a great QB.

[Anthony]

This debate is comparable to a college graduate's professional development. You can graduate with a degree in conputer science and have all the nuts and bolts in your head to be a great engineer, but you ain't going to become one working at Radio Shack. Same thing for a business/accounting major who works at HR Bkock. Doesn't matter how much potential you have. You won't develop.

Can we agree here??

Same thing holds true for the business itself. Radio Shack is not going to hire an engineer to sell transistor radios and soldering wire. HR Block is not going to hire a tax attorney to prepare returns.

Agree?

Equating this to football, sure, Russell Wilson could be great if he were developed. Who really knows. But he ain't going to develop into what he could be running freaking read options and gimic plays and throwing short, high percentage routes. And Pete Carroll doesn't want or need him to be Drew Brees. He wants him to be the guy who makes his business model go. And Pete Carroll's business model has ALWAYS been defense and physical run game. Your entire team reflects that in its personnell. It does not reflect an organization that wants to develop or build around a franchise QB.

Luck is the opposite case. That entire organization has put everything on his shoulders and worked to develop him. Everything about that team is built in the same way it was for Peyton; around the QB. Their business model has ALWAYS been QB centric, and of course their QBs develop to a higher degree than a run oriented team's would. This is all common sense.

A perfect comparable is Drew Brees. He had one above average season under Shottenheimer, who has a coaching philosophy similar to Carrol's. His career did not truly skyrocket until he had been under Payton a couple yrs. And that was not simply due to an infusion of more O talent (as some insist in the argument at hand). Brees had talent in SD. It was due to his accelerated learnng curve and growth as a QB under Payton's O.

To put it simply, Luck is obviously the most physically gifted young QB in the league. He also has a natural feel for how to play the position. Now you combine those variables with a system that runs entirely through him and forces his learning curve through complexity, volume and repetition, and you have the formula to create a great QB.

More crap you assusme he is the most physically gifted because you need him to be, however that has yet to be determined. You also fail again to acknowledge the overwhelemign amount of talent he has around him. So basically you still saying the same lies, but only trying hard to make it harder to see. To bad your lies are still very easy to read.

[mykc14]

This debate is comparable to a college graduate's professional development. You can graduate with a degree in conputer science and have all the nuts and bolts in your head to be a great engineer, but you ain't going to become one working at Radio Shack. Same thing for a business/accounting major who works at HR Bkock. Doesn't matter how much potential you have. You won't develop.

blah, blah, blah. Maybe people would be more willing to listen to you if you weren't constantly making statements without offering fact to back up your arguments. A perfect example: your Golden Tate argument. Because you say he is having a better season this year with the Lions somehow RW is a second rate QB. Well the fact is he is having virtually the same season statistically he had last year in Seattle. The only difference is this year he is in an offense with way more weapons and half of the games he hasn't been guarded by the other teams #1 CB, like he was in Seattle. So please stop using this and other unsupported arguments in your posts. I know this probably isn't going to happen but if you really want to remove the 'troll' label you have been given that would be a really good place to start.

2013 (Seattle) 2014 (Lions)
Targets: 98 94
Receptions: 64 68
Yards: 898 950
TD: 5 3
Average/Rec: 14.0 14.0
Catches of 20+ yards: 12 12

*Stupid I couldn't get the formatting the way I want it but the stats are still there.

[burrrton]

*Stupid I couldn't get the formatting the way I want it but the stats are still there.

FYI, I *think* using the "Code" tag will keep the spacing.

[edit]

Nope (or at least not easily):

-------------------------- 2013 (Seattle)---------2014 (Lions)
Targets:-----------------98-----------------------94
Receptions:-------------64-----------------------68
Yards:-------------------898----------------------950
TD:----------------------5-------------------------3
Average/Rec:----------14.0---------------------14.0
Catches of 20+ yards:-12-----------------------12

[c_hawkbob]

Well that's good to know! I can't tell tou how many times I tried using spaces or dashes to get stat lines to look right ...

* On second thought, that still looks like it could use some cleaning up.

[burrrton]

Well that's good to know! I can't tell tou how many times I tried using spaces or dashes to get stat lines to look right ...

Despite my failure above, I think there's a way to get it to work. The code tags just behave differently on different forum software.

Here we go:

https://wiki.phpbb.com/Help:Formatting

[edit]

Yeah, that doesn't work, either (might have to be enabled manually by admins??). Ok, this is bugging me now.