I'd trade Russell Wilson for Andrew Luck.

[HumanCockroach]

Just out of curiosity, did Young call himself a less successful QB? Because if he didn't say that Montana was a better QB than himself, he destroys his argument. As for dedicating himself for four hours a day, are you Kidding? Wilson has and continues to be, the guy who arrives earlier than everyone (including coaches) and leaves later than everyone, and that has been since he was drafted, anyone even insinuating otherwise, isn't just wrong but blind.

As for the Luck "meeting said criteria" I'm not entirely sure how you come to that conclusion, but basing it on a bunch of inflated passing totals, during the regular season, against piss poor teams, certainly doesn't make it true, or at least prove much of anything other than, good QB's can mop the field with them ( by the way Wilson did exactly that against Jacksonville just last season in a HALF of a game).

I would say Wilson is still working on your criteria ( with the obvious exception of the minimum 4 hour thing) , however so is Luck, and while Luck continues to throw the ball 40+ times a game, not needing to, or not being in a system that requires it, doesn't in the least, change or mitigate the success of a QB that CAN when called upon to do so, and has repeatedly done so, especially in key crucial moments.

There really is little argument to be had in the way of big game success, as Wilson not Luck, has excelled in said enviroments, and that is something that to date, has not in the least changed.Your parameters and criteria change from QB to QB and from time frame to time frame, which simply is just another way of saying " I don't like Wilson, so no matter the success, or level of play, I am going to discredit, ignore or make up whatever I have to, to dismiss him and his ability"

[HumanCockroach]

BTW, at the bottom of about the 3rd paragraph of that article Young mentions Andrew Luck with Aaron Rodgers as examples of QBs that are mastering the position...I am not the only one who believes it.

I would be inclined to agree with that comparison, at least in the early stages of their careers, that still changes zero of the discussion, just means that they have similar playing styles. The HUGE difference being that Rodgers does NOT at this time force throws into coverage that hurts his team, necessitating comebacks. Rodgers may be what Luck can BECOME, but he simply isn't CLOSE to that level now.

[Futureite]

Well Rodgers is the best in the entire league IMO. I put him above Peyton because he is mobile when he needs to be. I Iove watching Rodgers play, and I don't praise either he or Luck simply because they are from here. I am actually a big Washigton State Cougar fan. I'd put Luck in the top 5 but I agree he is not on par with Rodgers at this point.

To be fair, I distinctly remember John Madden saying in the middle of the 84' title game "Joe Montana is the best QB in the league". The first thought I had was "really?? I can think of a couple guys that are better". If Dan Marino had a D like ours, he probably would have won at least 1 or 2 SBs. It sure worked that way for Elway (my childhood idol).

[HumanCockroach]

Well Rodgers is the best in the entire league IMO

Wow, something I can actually agree with.

One of the biggest things IMHO that Rodgers does without fail, is protect the football. Isn't uncommon for him to go months without an ill advised, poor decision interception throw.

[Futureite]

Yes, he does. Which is incredible given how much he throws and the type of O he runs. Didn't he have something like 40+ tds and 6 ints at one point in 2011? He is one of my favorite QBs to watch.

[Anthony]

Let's take this away from a name callung debate. There are good points on both sides. But I emplore you to read Steve Young's recent interview on SFgate.com. In it he discusses athletic "dual threat" QBs like Wilson and Kap and the challenges they face. He very eloquantly articulates what I have been trying to; that to reach an elite status it takes (1) A capable teacher and system and (2) the willingness for a player to immerse himself in boring memorization for a mi.imum of 4 hrs per day. He equates it to law school.

Young also discusses the unique challenge althletic QBs face, in that they can bail themselves out at any point while guys like Peyton became who they are because they had no choice but to master the nuances of the position to get by. You are without a doubt witnessing this effect with Wilson and all of the running he has done this yr.

I am not saying Wilson is bad OR that he cannot be great. Ditto for Kap. Is criteria (1) satisfied? Are they in the right system with the right teacher? If so, have we seen the progression in nuances one would expect? A truly unbiased eye sees the growing pains. A truly unbiased eye could not deny Andrew Luck is much closer to that elite "form" at this stage in his career, and yes, he obviulously posseses all the intangibles. If anyone reminds me of the Montana I watched growing up, it is Luck.

Seriously, read the article. If I could post it I would.

rgeat articla adn I Can find a bunch woith experts who do not hinkt much of Kap or Luck adn think Wilson is better. As to your criteiria again do not care it is yoru criteria which means is is tainted to ensure you get the result you want, and your opinon is worthless to me.

Once again we go back to the FACTS

that Luck has a btter wr corps, better oline better passing system, plasy easier teams.

You keep saying unbiased but the problem is you are the most biased person here. I truly unbiased person would say that any good or better QB could do what Luck is doing with those weapons, system, and Schedule. Put WIlson on that team and he is destroying those numbers. However again you are not unbiased, so you would never be able top say it.

[Futureite]

Put Wilson on the Colts and he is "destroying" a 50 TD 5,000 yd pace? Lol what would he put up, 70 TDs and 7,000 yds?

This is why I rarely respond to you.

[Anthony]

Put Wilson on the Colts and he is "destroying" a 50 TD 5,000 yd pace? Lol what would he put up, 70 TDs and 7,000 yds?

This is why I rarely respond to you.

I know why you raraley respond to me, and it has nothing to do with my statements. It has to do with the reality that I provide facts that you cannot lie your way out of. It is becasue I call you are your lies. You do not respond to me becaue I always catch you in your lies, your childish attempts to focus in on one thing not the whole thing, and your attempt to ignore the things that prove you wrong and focus on lies you create to help your cause, and beacsue I call you on your talking out of both sides of your mouth, and lastly cause your a coward. FYI I said destroy but who said that was yards and TDs, while Luck is doing well there, there are other stats he is not destroying that Rw would. Even if Rw on Indy did the same yards, and TDs, but got a higher QB rating, YPA, Complt% that would be destroying the stats. I am very sure with Indys WR, Oline, Pass offense and easy schedule he would do. Once again you prove how narrow minded you are to only focus on 2 areas of being a QB when there are many others. Not to mention while you tried to make lite of what I said, with your childsih attempts to say he would get 7k yards and 70tds, which fyi If he got 200 yards more than Luck and 5 more tds that would still be destroying especially with better QB rating, Complt% adn YPA, however you also never said he could not, so you know he could. In doing so you also admit Luck has more tlaent and an easier schedule so thanks for admitting it, even if you were not man enough to just come right out and say it.

I unlike you can say Luck is very very good, as is Wilson, The only difference is 1 does it with less talent and playing tougher teams, and steps up in the playoffs. The other has all the help in the world, the easier schedule and wilts in the playoffs.

[Hawktawk]

Well Rodgers is the best in the entire league IMO. I put him above Peyton

To be fair, I distinctly remember John Madden saying in the middle of the 84' title game "Joe Montana is the best QB in the league". The first thought I had was "really?? I can think of a couple guys that are better". If Dan Marino had a D like ours, he probably would have won at least 1 or 2 SBs. It sure worked that way for Elway (my childhood idol).

I put a lot of guys ahead of Peyton.I put Wilson ahead of him. Wilson lapped him in the SB and beat him with an OT drive this year. Wilson put up 100 rushing and 300 passing vs the Rams and Manning got stuffed.What have u done for me lately Peyton?He is a gagger. And now that his arm is a wet noodle its going to get pretty ugly soon. Nuff said.


As for Marino vs Montana are you high? Why do you think Marino had lousy rushing attacks and generally mediocre defenses? He didn't make a commitment to the run, the fakes and ball handling. All he ever wanted to do was throw it up.I bet he audibled out of a few thousand run plays in his career if not more. I'm not sure Marino ever had a 1000 yard rusher or perhaps only one? in his career. Not many for sure. The defense was stressed out from not getting enough rest between possessions.Wonder why Shula won a SB with Griese, heck he played a backup most of that season.But in Marino's entire HOF career with all those star wars numbers never got another one or ever got back after his rookie year.Did Shula forget how to coach or did he have a fly boy air marshall who was so big time that the coach lost some leverage with game management and draft strategy?

The best QBs are the ones who win it all.Joe Cool Montana did it more than anyone. Hes the best ever.Its no contest between him and Marino.

[Futureite]

Hawtak;

The SB is a team accomplishment. A QB often gets the Lion's share of the credit for it, but it shouldn't always be that way. In 1987 Doug Williams beat up on Elway in the SB and completely outplayed him, but he was nowhere in the universe of a hall of famer like Elway. Conversely, Elway was not the MVP winning QB late in his career when he won SBs that he was early in his career when he was losing them. Obviously, the point of the game is to win. But the QB's % of contribution to that winning puzze often differs tremeandously from case to case.

OK, Wilson is better than Peyton. And as Anthony said, he would destroy Luck's current numbers if he played on the Colts. Let's just say he'd a top 3 QB right now. I am a little over this grand hyperbole.

I am also tired of knocking your QB. I think he's pretty good (like ours) but just needs to improve as a pure QB (like ours). End of debate for me.

[Anthony]

Hawtak;

The SB is a team accomplishment. A QB often gets the Lion's share of the credit for it, but it shouldn't always be that way. In 1987 Doug Williams beat up on Elway in the SB and completely outplayed him, but he was nowhere in the universe of a hall of famer like Elway. Conversely, Elway was not the MVP winning QB late in his career when he won SBs that he was early in his career when he was losing them. Obviously, the point of the game is to win. But the QB's % of contribution to that winning puzze often differs tremeandously from case to case.

OK, Wilson is better than Peyton. And as Anthony said, he would destroy Luck's current numbers if he played on the Colts. Let's just say he'd a top 3 QB right now. I am a little over this grand hyperbole.

I am also tired of knocking your QB. I think he's pretty good (like ours) but just needs to improve as a pure QB (like ours). End of debate for me.

Glad its the end for you all QBs to include Maning, LUck, Brady all of them can improve, only thing is WIlson has the least talent aroung him, and the worst system to improv eand yet he does.

[THX-1138]

I'd trade this thread for a bag of corn chips and some delicious salsa recipes.

[Hawktawk]

Hawtak;

The SB is a team accomplishment. A QB often gets the Lion's share of the credit for it, but it shouldn't always be that way. In 1987 Doug Williams beat up on Elway in the SB and completely outplayed him, but he was nowhere in the universe of a hall of famer like Elway. Conversely, Elway was not the MVP winning QB late in his career when he won SBs that he was early in his career when he was losing them. Obviously, the point of the game is to win. But the QB's % of contribution to that winning puzze often differs tremeandously from case to case.

OK, Wilson is better than Peyton. And as Anthony said, he would destroy Luck's current numbers if he played on the Colts. Let's just say he'd a top 3 QB right now. I am a little over this grand hyperbole.

I am also tired of knocking your QB. I think he's pretty good (like ours) but just needs to improve as a pure QB (like ours). End of debate for me.

Yes the SB is a team accomplishment but few are won without good to great QB play IN THE KEY MOMENTS. Look Ive watched SB 48 at least a dozen times. Seattle's D was awesome obviously. But Wilson was the best player on the field that night. He should have been MVP and IMO it was the Manning bias that cost him that. The Manning lovers weren't going to have that as a headline Monday morning. Because Manning was the WORST player on the football field that night. Seattle got after him but there were some unforced errors and poor decisions too. He was bad, putrid. hes a first ballot HOF guy and deservedly so, but he is very ordinary or worse when its all on the line. If I recall Montana never had a turnover in 4 SB victories? Mannings blown the last 2 with turnovers.

As for RW vs Kap you call your guy good if you want. Our guy is GREAT.He has all the throws and the most deadly set of wheels in the league. and hes one of the smartest, most articulate and hard working guys too. I wouldn't trade him for anyone in the league and I think he will bring us a lot of hardware when he is done. And he will do it with class as he represents our team and our city. Life is good.

[burrrton]

I'd like to expound on XLVIII being a big feather in RW's cap:

It's not simply the fact that he won that gives him bragging rights (for anyone that thinks a great D removes that) - it's the fact that he was the best player on the field, that his was still the most impressive performance even with all those all-pros playing at the top of their game.

Yes, the win was a team accomplishment (as it always is with football), but anyone who watched knows who made the plays that still had to be made.

[monkey]

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos_h264high/61EB157F841149415828257751040_SW_WEBM_1417015865919715ef8a69a.mp4?versionId=WmBTE_MRIRChZGWdHUVtrJ9a85w7apnI

Remember this throw? It's even better than I originally thought watching it again...amazing. He completely fools the safety by pointing his entire body, with his shoulders squared and feet set, in a different direction than he ends up throwing the ball.

Russell Wilson is a Seahawks QB, and likely will be until he retires, or least for quite a long while yet, barring injury of course. Think about that. He will soon be locked up for multiple years to come, and the Seattle Seahawks have a VERY bright future ahead of them as a result.

[Anthony]

I'd like to expound on XLVIII being a big feather in RW's cap:

It's not simply the fact that he won that gives him bragging rights (for anyone that thinks a great D removes that) - it's the fact that he was the best player on the field, that his was still the most impressive performance even with all those all-pros playing at the top of their game.

Yes, the win was a team accomplishment (as it always is with football), but anyone who watched knows who made the plays that still had to be made.

He also set a record throwing for over 200 yards, tds with no Ints.

[monkey]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/27/7300917/russell-wilson-and-tony-moeaki-with-an-improbably-63-yard-play-video/in/7043440

Bea-u-tiful.
The Colts can keep Luck, I'll roll with the guy we have thank you very much!

[Anthony]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/27/7300917/russell-wilson-and-tony-moeaki-with-an-improbably-63-yard-play-video/in/7043440

Bea-u-tiful.
The Colts can keep Luck, I'll roll with the guy we have thank you very much!

Agreed Luck cannot do that.

[Hawktawk]

RW is absolutely devastating breaking down defenses. Back in 2012 when he led two long drives to beat the Bears in OT a member of their coaching staff described him as a "monster". In his third year he has perfected the art of buying time or gashing a defense with a run. To this point in his career he is the most deadly dual threat QB I have ever seen.