More Wilson Contract stuff

[NorthHawk]

Geez, relax. You never put your best offer forward with your first moves.
We've got better than a full year before it becomes an issue and also have the FT in our pocket.
The Colts haven't done anything with Luck yet either, and they waited until the contract expired with Manning twice in the past. We don't hear much from them and he will probably get more money than Wilson - even without a Super Bowl win.

[c_hawkbob]

So, does this mean that it is official? The Seahawk F/O has been low balling R.W. ??? Does Pete really believe T-jack could have done just as good as Russell??? Is Pete smoking crack?

If They hadn't of wasted the money they gave to Pussy Harvin and Cyndi Rice they would have had the money to pay Wilson!

So does what mean what is official?

The team hasn't officially said anything and neither has Russ or his agent. The only thing official is that people are officially jumping the gun sweating all this, everything else is pure conjecture.

[obiken]

Your right Savvy It just came off too funny to resist!. Its all relative right!

[obiken]

We get Chuck Powell on Comcast here in Portland, from KJR in Seattle, and he just made a good point. Bobby Wagner is the forgotten man in all of this. He says he hasn't heard a word out of the FO. That's a scary prospect loosing an All Pro MLB.

[c_hawkbob]

We get Chuck Powell on Comcast here in Portland, from KJR in Seattle, and he just made a good point. Bobby Wagner is the forgotten man in all of this. He says he hasn't heard a word out of the FO. That's a scary prospect loosing an All Pro MLB.

Cost us a whole lot less (in cap space) to get Wilson signed and F-tag Bobby while we continue to negotiate if needs be.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I like to think, wishfully so, that players will try to work a deal that makes them happy and keeps the team together. I'd like to think Wilson would be like that, but he's played too well to not get what the market will bear. Fingers crossed a middle ground can be reached.

And, yeah, Wagner is vital in my opinion. I don't think for one minute that the FO has forgotten about him, but, though I think Wagner is a close second, your franchise QB is going to come first. Crossing the rest of my fingers that Wagner will get an extension when Wilson's deal gets done.

[Hawktawk]

Wagner is a great player but hes missed time with injuries the last 2 seasons. Wilson has not missed a snap since being named the starter, despite being an unconventional QB and playing behind a bad line.

This isn't close, its Wilson in a landslide. Its clear to me that this team is going to change in the next couple of years. Seattle cannot please everybody. The team was built on defense but the last 2 times Seattle ended the seasons with a loss the defense got beat.There is no perfect formula for success. I trust in Russ to make up the difference when this defense inevitably changes and becomes less dominant. Great franchises win no matter what but one thing is almost always certain.The QB is a franchise guy.
Pay Russ now!!!! its embarrassing the lack of gratitude for a guy who has the all time record for wins and has been playing on a punters salary.

[NorthHawk]

People are writing like we've had 2 years to negotiate. We couldn't even talk contract until a few months ago.
For all we know they might do Wagners contract first because the going rate is fairly well established as opposed to the QB situation where we have Luck, Newton, and the newly signed Tannehill as QBs whose agreements will help set the range.

If I were Wilson's advisor, I would counsel him to wait as long as possible to get the most money.
It's all part of the bargaining process and gaming.

[Anthony]

To me as it relates to Wilson is that people, experts and maybe our own FO do not realize what he actually has done and what it allows us to do.

Our oline was ranked 24th in pass blocking, the year we won the SB they were ranked 32nd. For the 3 years he has been here they had an avg ranking of 25th. Yet it works for us and that is mostly due to Wilson. According to ESPN our wr corps last year was ranked 24th once we traded Harvin. During Wilsons tenure here we never ranked higher than 20th. Add to that playing the most top 10 defenses year in and year out.

To put that in perspective, since everyone says Luck doe sit all by himself, His Wr corps ranked top 10 the least 2 years, and his oline was top 10 in pass blocking the last 2 years.

So while yes HE has a great defense(more to come here) and great RB(more to come here also), the 2 things that impact a QB the most pass blocking and WR he has been well behind all the other great QB in talent, and yet he has performed at a high level. Pete "Bite me" Prisco just wrote an article about the Tannenhill deal were he mentioned how Wilson has it better due to defense and RB, but as usual with him fails to mention were Tannenhill has it better, Oline, Wr, and easier schedule. This happens a lot by the experts and the fans who really do not know or do not care.

Lets look at that great defense in 2011 they were top 10 but no place near has good as they have been since. Now part of that is the group growing, part of it is also going from being on the field 33 minutes a game on avg to 27 minutes a game on avg. The difference is due to the offense sustaining more drives that is directly due to Wilson. Now the Defense helps the offense in keeping the score down that is true. However they also help with field position. On avg over the 3 years Wilson has been here are avg starting field position was the 28 yard line. To put that in perspective Lucks avg starting position was 28 yard line. So the starting field position that some use is a huge mistake.

Now lets look at one other thing people bring up, the fact that Wilson is 2-9 in games were the other team scores 24 or more points, This is interesting to me as they fail to look at what happened in those games. Out of the 9 games we lost 7 of them we had a lead late into the 4th qtr and the other team then got the lead and left us little to no time to catch up. Add to that Wilsons league leading 15 4thg qtr/ot game winning drives over the last 3 years and you get the correct picture, that being the whole 24 point thing is untrue.

Now lets look at the RB thing, Lynch is a great RB no doubt, That said he ahs had his best years as a runner and receiver with Wilson. Wilsons ability to run, extend drives helps Lynch as much as Lynch helps Wilson. How much energy does the dline have after chasing Wilson around a couple of times? How many people can focus on Lynch when they know Wilson can keep it, and run for 800+ yards. Add tot hat so what Lynch is the only A+ offensive weapon he has had till this year. To put that in perspective Brady has Gronk, Luck has Hilton, Rodgers has Nelson, and I can go on, every top QB has at least 1 top A+ offensive threat, most have 2, and most have them at a position that directly impacts the QB ie at WR or TE. Add to that if we take all the QB rushing yards form every team and instead only give them the avg of the starters we dropped to 12 in rushing. Wilsons rushing numbers puts us over the top.

By no means am I saying Wilson has done it all by himself no QB even Rodgers does that. But he does a lot more than most think and he does it with less and against high quality defensive opponents.

Because of Wilson we can go cheap on the oline and can get away with only 1 high prices receiving threat. We can get away with high school route trees, and high school passing plays.

The only question is when will the experts(some get it some do not "prisco" get this and does the FO. We will see.

[burrrton]

Nice post, Anthony.

I think our FO *does* "get it", though- they're simply doing their job trying to maximize the team's flexibility while retaining those players they feel they need to retain.

Nothing we know for sure about this situation undermines that. Yet.

[obiken]

What I am hearing is that its the guaranteed part of his contract. Now with Tanny getting 40+ million guaranteed, they are really far apart. Plus its all in limbo with the possibility of PC leaving for LA when the Raiders move.

[burrrton]

Now with Tanny getting 40+ million guaranteed, they are really far apart.

Anyone remember the Vikings taking 12 sticks of dynamite to the "offensive guard" market?

[Anthony]

What I am hearing is that its the guaranteed part of his contract. Now with Tanny getting 40+ million guaranteed, they are really far apart. Plus its all in limbo with the possibility of PC leaving for LA when the Raiders move.

To me PC maybe leaving make sit all the more important to keep Wilson. Cannot loose your HC and Franchise QB.

[burrrton]

To me PC maybe leaving make sit all the more important to keep Wilson. Cannot loose your HC and Franchise QB.

I think the rumor he's leaving is a lot of hooey. We're not losing either one of them for a few years. Mark it down.

[Seahawks4Ever]

I read a few months ago that John Schneider would leave Seattle in a N.Y. minute if he was ever offered the G.M. job at Green Bay. Just say'in, the NFL is a BUSINESS and money talks and B.S. walks.

Given the right (wrong) circumstances we could lose John, Pete, and R.W. and we would all be considering suicide. But, I think the odds of even losing one of those guys is slim to none and slim just left town.

[NorthHawk]

Well, I don't know. If they keep providing an average at best Offensive line...
jk

[Anthony]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... -situation

"The Seahawks paid top dollar to cornerback Richard Sherman, safety Earl Thomas and even reworked the last year on Marshawn Lynch's deal to keep their star running back happy. Now they're going to play hardball with Wilson?"


Exactly what I have been saying. Something is not right here, I am really starting to think the FO does not value Wilson as much as they should.

"He could play out this season at $1.5 million and force the Seahawks to franchise him next year, a one-year sum that probably would top $23 million. Would it really come to that? We'll see. Miami's Ryan Tannehill signed a six-year Monday for $96 million with $45 million guaranteed. Wilson needs to be way north of that amount, however the deal is structured."


"Reports are they have offered Wilson a little over $80 million over four years." It is really a 5 years 81 mil or 16 mil a year.

This could get ugly very ugly.

[RiverDog]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/13074/a-look-at-the-seahawks-quarterback-situation

"The Seahawks paid top dollar to cornerback Richard Sherman, safety Earl Thomas and even reworked the last year on Marshawn Lynch's deal to keep their star running back happy. Now they're going to play hardball with Wilson?"


Exactly what I have been saying. Something is not right here, I am really starting to think the FO does not value Wilson as much as they should.

"He could play out this season at $1.5 million and force the Seahawks to franchise him next year, a one-year sum that probably would top $23 million. Would it really come to that? We'll see. Miami's Ryan Tannehill signed a six-year Monday for $96 million with $45 million guaranteed. Wilson needs to be way north of that amount, however the deal is structured."


"Reports are they have offered Wilson a little over $80 million over four years." It is really a 5 years 81 mil or 16 mil a year.

This could get ugly very ugly.

There's no sense worrying about this until at least the start of training camp, perhaps even the start of the regular season, and even if they haven't come to an agreement by then, he's still under contract for another year and we still have the FT option in 2016.

"Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things."

[NorthHawk]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/13074/a-look-at-the-seahawks-quarterback-situation

"The Seahawks paid top dollar to cornerback Richard Sherman, safety Earl Thomas and even reworked the last year on Marshawn Lynch's deal to keep their star running back happy. Now they're going to play hardball with Wilson?"


Exactly what I have been saying. Something is not right here, I am really starting to think the FO does not value Wilson as much as they should.

"He could play out this season at $1.5 million and force the Seahawks to franchise him next year, a one-year sum that probably would top $23 million. Would it really come to that? We'll see. Miami's Ryan Tannehill signed a six-year Monday for $96 million with $45 million guaranteed. Wilson needs to be way north of that amount, however the deal is structured."


"Reports are they have offered Wilson a little over $80 million over four years." It is really a 5 years 81 mil or 16 mil a year.

This could get ugly very ugly.

So our opening gambit is 20 million per year. We don't know the guaranteed component, and as all negotiations begin with the employer offering less than what they are willing to pay, and the employee asking for more than they know they will get, there's still a lot of room to find common ground. And there's still a lot of time before it becomes critical.

[SalmonBB]

Maybe he and PC have a plan to go to LA together.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Anthony]

[quote="NorthHawk
So our opening gambit is 20 million per year. We don't know the guaranteed component, and as all negotiations begin with the employer offering less than what they are willing to pay, and the employee asking for more than they know they will get, there's still a lot of room to find common ground. And there's still a lot of time before it becomes critical.[/quote]

Actually it was reported the guarantees they are offering were the same they offered Sherman.

"Tannehill’s $45 million guaranteed is a huge, huge sticking point for Wilson also. $45 million is clearly franchise-quarterback money that would put Wilson near the top of the salary food chain. The Dalton and Kaepernick-esque contract from Seattle would probably have that guaranteed amount down somewhere in the $20 million range. That’s a huge difference that can’t be overlooked."


http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/05/2 ... ll-wilson/

[NorthHawk]

So, it's the starting point. It has to begin somewhere.
As well, Tannehills contract wasn't known when the offer was made so how could he have been upset prior?
Remember, we've only had a few months that our FO could even consider making an offer. There's lots of time left before things could get to the intense stage of negotiations.

[mykc14]

"Tannehill’s $45 million guaranteed is a huge, huge sticking point for Wilson also. $45 million is clearly franchise-quarterback money that would put Wilson near the top of the salary food chain. The Dalton and Kaepernick-esque contract from Seattle would probably have that guaranteed amount down somewhere in the $20 million range. That’s a huge difference that can’t be overlooked."


http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/05/2 ... ll-wilson/

This is my frustration with this type of reporting. Tannehill's $45 mil is for injury only and then he compares it to Kaep who supposedly has $61 mil guaranteed. He then says it is close to Dalton who only had 17 mil guaranteed. The reality is that both Tannehill and Kaep have a lot less than that actually guaranteed (expect for injury). Tannehills is like 27 mil and Kaeps depends on a lot of factors but was much closer to 23-25 mil. So basically Tannehill's contract has a significant amount LESS money guaranteed than Kaep for injury and only slightly more guaranteed than Kaep. Again, I really don't see this doing much to Wilson's contract. Did anybody think Wilson's guarantee would be less than $45 mil for injury?

*Actually I just checked and Tannehill's actual guarantee is 21.5 mil, not 27

* Checked Kaeps and hi actual guarantee is 25.9 mil

[Anthony]

[quote="mykc14"}
This is my frustration with this type of reporting. Tannehill's $45 mil is for injury only and then he compares it to Kaep who supposedly has $61 mil guaranteed. He then says it is close to Dalton who only had 17 mil guaranteed. The reality is that both Tannehill and Kaep have a lot less than that actually guaranteed (expect for injury). Tannehills is like 27 mil and Kaeps depends on a lot of factors but was much closer to 23-25 mil. So basically Tannehill's contract has a significant amount LESS money guaranteed than Kaep for injury and only slightly more guaranteed than Kaep. Again, I really don't see this doing much to Wilson's contract. Did anybody think Wilson's guarantee would be less than $45 mil for injury?

*Actually I just checked and Tannehill's actual guarantee is 21.5 mil, not 27

* Checked Kaeps and hi actual guarantee is 25.9 mil[/quote]

Either way it is more than what has been reportedly offered to Wilson.

[mykc14]

[quote="mykc14"}
This is my frustration with this type of reporting. Tannehill's $45 mil is for injury only and then he compares it to Kaep who supposedly has $61 mil guaranteed. He then says it is close to Dalton who only had 17 mil guaranteed. The reality is that both Tannehill and Kaep have a lot less than that actually guaranteed (expect for injury). Tannehills is like 27 mil and Kaeps depends on a lot of factors but was much closer to 23-25 mil. So basically Tannehill's contract has a significant amount LESS money guaranteed than Kaep for injury and only slightly more guaranteed than Kaep. Again, I really don't see this doing much to Wilson's contract. Did anybody think Wilson's guarantee would be less than $45 mil for injury?

*Actually I just checked and Tannehill's actual guarantee is 21.5 mil, not 27

* Checked Kaeps and hi actual guarantee is 25.9 mil

Either way it is more than what has been reportedly offered to Wilson.

Honestly I haven't seen any actual numbers for guarantees being reported, even the article you linked is purely conjecture as he states "would probably have that guaranteed amount somewhere in the $20 million dollar range." I don't think these reports about Wilson and the team being far apart hold much water really. I don't think the team is really trying to lowball him and I don't think he is demanding the moon. IMO a deal will get done and it will probably sound something like a 4 year $95-100 million deal with $60 guaranteed, which in reality will be a 5 year $96-101 million deal with about $35 mil in actual guarantees (like a $20 mil signing bonus and the first years salary) those aren't the exact numbers but that is around where they will end up falling when they get it done before training camp, IMO.

[obiken]

I agree with you, who said you need a WR, to win a title.

[HumanCockroach]

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Russell-W ... n-37478772

From his agent via Salk and Brock interview.

[NorthHawk]

Like many of us have said, there's a lot of time left before any deal will get done, but Wilson will eventually be here for the long term.
The process just has to work itself out.

[Hawktawk]

It was reassuring top hear from Wilson's agent for sure. Once again the media mucking things up but I always fall for it.

[jshawaii22]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... ell-wilson


So, now we are starting to see the 'picture'. All of a sudden we have the PR push by his new agent. This is indirectly explaining why Russell changed agents. What influence this person, who has never had an NFL player as a client before, might have over Russell.
Without any NFL experience, it could make the negotiation very touchy and not as direct as the 'typical' agent like Bus Cook.

js

[Anthony]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/13190/mark-rodgers-says-he-is-a-father-figure-to-russell-wilson


So, now we are starting to see the 'picture'. All of a sudden we have the PR push by his new agent. This is indirectly explaining why Russell changed agents. What influence this person, who has never had an NFL player as a client before, might have over Russell.
Without any NFL experience, it could make the negotiation very touchy and not as direct as the 'typical' agent like Bus Cook.

js

Actually if you listen to John Clayton this is not the first NFl client this agent has had.

[jshawaii22]

If he did, it was not mentioned anywhere, but you never know. He's certainly more known as a baseball agent.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitn ... all-agent/

[c_hawkbob]

"Now" we're seeing the full picture?

We went over all this same stuff back when Russ first changed agents. Nothing is different now other than a few added details about this guy's personal relationship with Russ. From my point of view nothing has changed and I'm still not sweating anything any more than I was in February.

[RiverDog]

I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, but I honestly don't know why some folks are on pins and needles over these contract negotiations. Unless I've completely misjudged Russell's character as well as that of JS/PC, this contract will get done and it will be something the team can live with, if not a team friendly deal. If we get into August and the two sides seem far apart, then there might be some cause for some concern, but even then, Russell is still under contract and we still have the trump card in the form of the FT to play a year from now. I don't see Russell reacting as Bruce Irvin did when we didn't pick up his option and express a desire to be somewhere else. He's as professional of an athlete that I've ever seen in the sense that he can compartmentalize the business side of the game and not let it interfere with the football side.

[NorthHawk]

I'm marching to the same band as you, RD. Maybe we are both a little naive about contracts, but it's real early in a process that restricted both sides from negotiating until just a couple of months ago. Add in the activities around the draft, and it's probably expected that the two sides are only getting to know each other on the negotiation front.

[RiverDog]

I'm marching to the same band as you, RD. Maybe we are both a little naive about contracts, but it's real early in a process that restricted both sides from negotiating until just a couple of months ago. Add in the activities around the draft, and it's probably expected that the two sides are only getting to know each other on the negotiation front.

Plus there's the added complication that they also want to re-do Bobby Wagner's contract, too.

[jshawaii22]

The Seahawks are back in the contract news today. The NFL report is that we are working with Bobby W right now on his extension. According to Peter King and others, it looks like Russell has stalled out, due (IMHO) to having a baseball 'raised' agent doing a football contract. Of course, that's RW's option. Seems that a 14 page diatribe from the agent to JS is supposed to be on it's way. If it mentions how much Russell still wants to play baseball, we all can sit back for awhile. It's going to be an entrenchment.

I fully agree with RD and have been typical of the 'it's only been a couple of months' camp... but to have a contract discussion become open to a public forum is never a good idea. This may take weeks, months, years, but Russell's contract will happen. That's my gut feeling and in the meantime, let's go out and do another ring thing.

If Bobby signs, expect the Hawks to play Russell this year at his 4th year Rookie salary and use that stored cap space for the other players like Okung, Sweezy, & maybe re-do Bennett like we did Marshawn. If we go that route, there is no room (that I can figure) for Russell's roll-over unless it's all packed the last couple of years and that is where the baseball agent would never allow, unless it's all guaranteed.

[c_hawkbob]

A position statement from an agent is pretty standard fare in this size negotiation. PK is just selling copy on his way to the beach.

I still say this is done by training camp. (if it's not, then I'll join in the teeth gnashing)

[Anthony]

The Seahawks are back in the contract news today. The NFL report is that we are working with Bobby W right now on his extension. According to Peter King and others, it looks like Russell has stalled out, due (IMHO) to having a baseball 'raised' agent doing a football contract. Of course, that's RW's option. Seems that a 14 page diatribe from the agent to JS is supposed to be on it's way. If it mentions how much Russell still wants to play baseball, we all can sit back for awhile. It's going to be an entrenchment.

I fully agree with RD and have been typical of the 'it's only been a couple of months' camp... but to have a contract discussion become open to a public forum is never a good idea. This may take weeks, months, years, but Russell's contract will happen. That's my gut feeling and in the meantime, let's go out and do another ring thing.

If Bobby signs, expect the Hawks to play Russell this year at his 4th year Rookie salary and use that stored cap space for the other players like Okung, Sweezy, & maybe re-do Bennett like we did Marshawn. If we go that route, there is no room (that I can figure) for Russell's roll-over unless it's all packed the last couple of years and that is where the baseball agent would never allow, unless it's all guaranteed.

If they did what you ay about those others than you can Kiss Wilson goodbye as they could not even franchise him at over 25 mil and not having any money left over to carry forward. The fact they are considering all of that tells you they were never going to do anything for Rw for this coming year, even though they could. Of course King is just guessing and really does not know anything, FYI Rws agent has done NFL deal before, per Clayton.

[jshawaii22]

Anthony,

I think the team went into the off-season with every intention of signing Russell to a shiney, new contract. But if it doesn't happen then doing the others this year should be done. I'm not sure about rolling over cap space. Wasn't that ended last year? Anyway, the cap is supposed to go up another 10m give or take, with the new Thursday night NFL package, so there will be money next year, there is always money if you plan it right.

js