Hawks/Card predictions....

[4XPIPS]

I haven't followed Murray's career closely enough to comment on your thoughts about his style of play, but I will say that his not attempting many QB sneaks is likely due more to Murray's very small stature (5'10", 207) than it is anything else. Russell Wilson didn't attempt very many QB sneaks, either.

Been listening to Arizona Sports radio for the last 20 years, and most of the talk show host are very critical of Kyler. Some are wishing they never gave him the big $200+ mil contract. Most of them feel he is way overpaid for his accomplishments, and being this is year 6 for him there should be seeing greatness out of him by now. So, when you are being paid $50mil+ per year, you are going to be scrutinized every time you make some bad judgements.

[River Dog]

I haven't followed Murray's career closely enough to comment on your thoughts about his style of play, but I will say that his not attempting many QB sneaks is likely due more to Murray's very small stature (5'10", 207) than it is anything else. Russell Wilson didn't attempt very many QB sneaks, either.

Been listening to Arizona Sports radio for the last 20 years, and most of the talk show host are very critical of Kyler. Some are wishing they never gave him the big $200+ mil contract. Most of them feel he is way overpaid for his accomplishments, and being this is year 6 for him there should be seeing greatness out of him by now. So, when you are being paid $50mil+ per year, you are going to be scrutinized every time you make some bad judgements.

I am by no means defending Murray. He's not a top 5 QB IMO, not even close. He's already caused one head coach to lose his job. And yes, it was a big mistake for the Cards to hitch their wagon to him, not unlike the Giants decision to hitch theirs to Daniel Jones.

[Aseahawkfan]

Murray isn't a top 5 QB. He's a middle tier QB who makes up for his ok passing ability with mobility. Once he loses his legs, he'll likely be worse than Russ.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

That was by far the best defensive performance of the season and obviously of the Macdonald era. The Cards were a legitimate contender with a dual threat QB and we held them to less than 50 yards rushing and kept them out of the end zone.

I was at the game watching from the 300 level and had forgotten to bring my glasses, so I couldn't see as much detail, like player's numbers, as I normally would have, so I'm afraid I can't comment too much on individual players. But yeah, I did notice Williams tearing up the defensive front. Damn Geno pissed me off, though, throwing a completely unnecessary red zone interception when we were well within scoring range with the defense playing lights out. That man is going to cost us big time if he doesn't clean up those kinds of mistakes.

I'm pretty much on the bandwagon, now. I don't think we're SB contenders, but I think we're the best team in our division and if we can stay healthy like we are now, we have a chance to catch lightening in a bottle.

I am really, really, REALLY tired of Geno Smith and his awful turnovers, especially in the red zone. I accept that not all of that is on him, but at some point your QB has to stop throwing costly picks. He killed us in the Rams game.

Our defense has been playing great - enough to almost shroud the repeated mistakes from #7. But he has to fix that stuff.

His 4th quarter nut-checks almost balance it out. But he has only 12 passing TDs all season, and leads the league with 12 interceptions. I love him, I really do - great story of resilience. You just can't invest a $38 million cap number in him next season, not with our cap issues. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[4XPIPS]

I am really, really, REALLY tired of Geno Smith and his awful turnovers, especially in the red zone. I accept that not all of that is on him, but at some point your QB has to stop throwing costly picks. He killed us in the Rams game.

Our defense has been playing great - enough to almost shroud the repeated mistakes from #7. But he has to fix that stuff.

His 4th quarter nut-checks almost balance it out. But he has only 12 passing TDs all season, and leads the league with 12 interceptions. I love him, I really do - great story of resilience. You just can't invest a $38 million cap number in him next season, not with our cap issues. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

If you are talking about the Rams game, yes he did cause some turnovers, but not all F*cK ups are created equal. Connor had the high snap that killed the redzone drive. The stepping on the foot on 4th down... hmmm that is "50/50" 50% Geno maybe 50% bad luck. In OT coach Mike Macdonald opted for a 4th down run play vs kicking a makeable FG to take the lead.

I am not going to give Geno a pass on the Rams game, or the Cards game because I know he hasn't lit it up, but I think we all can agree that Geno can play a lot better than this, and we have seen when he is on his game he is a top 10 QB at times. He has been horrifically inconsistent this season, but there is an element to Geno's game that we all know he has if he can just get back to playing clean football.

If we are talking about his contract situation, than he is definitely a bargain by comparison to other QBs out there.

Here are some top $50 + mil per year salaries, with over $75 + mil cap hits to their respective teams, that are underachieving.

Trevor Lawrence
Deshaun Watson
Dak Prescott ($60 mil per year)
Tua Tagovailoa
Joe Burrow

I think the QB market has changed so drastically that Geno's deal is a bargain hence why he wants a new extension. He is playing for an extension and for intensive purposes he isn't selling himself all that well.

In order for us to win the NFC West, it will come down to Geno having to play well and come through at some point. At some point, one of these games are going down to the wire and Geno will have to step up and be clutch. So I agree Geno is frustrating to watch, but I want to see him close out the season strong and hopefully lock up the NFC West.

[River Dog]

I am really, really, REALLY tired of Geno Smith and his awful turnovers, especially in the red zone. I accept that not all of that is on him, but at some point your QB has to stop throwing costly picks. He killed us in the Rams game.

Our defense has been playing great - enough to almost shroud the repeated mistakes from #7. But he has to fix that stuff.

His 4th quarter nut-checks almost balance it out. But he has only 12 passing TDs all season, and leads the league with 12 interceptions. I love him, I really do - great story of resilience. You just can't invest a $38 million cap number in him next season, not with our cap issues. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I have to confess that I don't like Geno personally. I didn't care at all for his behavior during his DUI arrest. Drunk or sober, there's no excuse for it. He also basically called multiple former coaches racist when he attributed his dismal career up until 2022 to his being black. The guy's an A-hole.

But I try to put that aside and judge him only by what I see on the field. He's 2nd in the league in passing yards, and he'd doing it with one of the worst running games in the league, ranked 27th in rushing yards per game and worse than that when you take out QB scrambles. Plus, our offensive line woes have been well documented. Geno is doing more with less than any QB in the league, and the success we've had so far can be attributed in a large part to his efforts.

But as IG said, he has to fix those interceptions and other mental mistakes, like knowing when and where to go into a hook slide. This past Sunday's pick was completely unnecessary. We were already ahead by two scores and a FG would have given us a two TD lead going into the 4th quarter. Just eat the damn ball, kick the chip shot FG, and trust our defense, which had been playing and continued to play lights out. Win or lose, it seems like Geno makes one of those kinds of critical mistakes every game.

[Aseahawkfan]

I have to confess that I don't like Geno personally. I didn't care at all for his behavior during his DUI arrest. Drunk or sober, there's no excuse for it. He also basically called multiple former coaches racist when he attributed his dismal career up until 2022 to his being black. The guy's an A-hole.

But I try to put that aside and judge him only by what I see on the field. He's 2nd in the league in passing yards, and he'd doing it with one of the worst running games in the league, ranked 27th in rushing yards per game and worse than that when you take out QB scrambles. Plus, our offensive line woes have been well documented. Geno is doing more with less than any QB in the league, and the success we've had so far can be attributed in a large part to his efforts.

But as IG said, he has to fix those interceptions and other mental mistakes, like knowing when and where to go into a hook slide. This past Sunday's pick was completely unnecessary. We were already ahead by two scores and a FG would have given us a two TD lead going into the 4th quarter. Just eat the damn ball, kick the chip shot FG, and trust our defense, which had been playing and continued to play lights out. Win or lose, it seems like Geno makes one of those kinds of critical mistakes every game.

I don't agree with this. Geno has one of the best group of receivers in the league. That's what's carrying his passing yards along with an offensive coordinator who gives up on the run early and often. As far as Geno fixing his mental mistakes, dude is a 10 plus year veteran: he isn't fixing his mistakes. In a volume passing game, we're seeing the real Geno. Pete used to keep his ints under control by running a lower volume passing game with a stronger focus on the run game. It's why people don't like Pete's offense because he was committed to the run.

Geno is a bridge QB. He won't be competitive consistently in playoff runs. We have to find a QB of the future and soon or we're spinning wheels as far as competing for Super Bowls.

[River Dog]

I have to confess that I don't like Geno personally. I didn't care at all for his behavior during his DUI arrest. Drunk or sober, there's no excuse for it. He also basically called multiple former coaches racist when he attributed his dismal career up until 2022 to his being black. The guy's an A-hole.

But I try to put that aside and judge him only by what I see on the field. He's 2nd in the league in passing yards, and he'd doing it with one of the worst running games in the league, ranked 27th in rushing yards per game and worse than that when you take out QB scrambles. Plus, our offensive line woes have been well documented. Geno is doing more with less than any QB in the league, and the success we've had so far can be attributed in a large part to his efforts.

But as IG said, he has to fix those interceptions and other mental mistakes, like knowing when and where to go into a hook slide. This past Sunday's pick was completely unnecessary. We were already ahead by two scores and a FG would have given us a two TD lead going into the 4th quarter. Just eat the damn ball, kick the chip shot FG, and trust our defense, which had been playing and continued to play lights out. Win or lose, it seems like Geno makes one of those kinds of critical mistakes every game.

I don't agree with this. Geno has one of the best group of receivers in the league. That's what's carrying his passing yards along with an offensive coordinator who gives up on the run early and often. As far as Geno fixing his mental mistakes, dude is a 10 plus year veteran: he isn't fixing his mistakes. In a volume passing game, we're seeing the real Geno. Pete used to keep his ints under control by running a lower volume passing game with a stronger focus on the run game. It's why people don't like Pete's offense because he was committed to the run.

Geno is a bridge QB. He won't be competitive consistently in playoff runs. We have to find a QB of the future and soon or we're spinning wheels as far as competing for Super Bowls.

I'm not arguing that Geno is anything more than a bridge quarterback. I'm dead set against extending his contract. What I am saying is that outside of the interceptions, not all of which are his fault, he's having a relatively decent year. PFF has his passing grade ranked 6th in the league. He's ranked 2nd in total yards, 5th in completion percentage. You don't get those kinds of numbers by playing with mirrors.

As far as your claim that he has one of the best receiving corps in the league, I'll respectfully disagree. Once again referring to PFF, JSN is our highest ranked receiver at #23. Metcalf is ranked #36. Lockett is ranked 47th. And, as we both mentioned, we are a pass happy team with virtually no running attack and a porous offensive line. PFF has them ranked 30th in pass blocking efficiency, which has led to Geno being the 3rd highest sacked QB in the league.

Given his supporting cast, Geno is doing quite well. He's not a top 10 QB, but he's not a bottom feeder, either. His interceptions and brain farts are holding our offense back, but at the same time, he's not the biggest problem we have, either. That distinction rests with our offensive line.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not arguing that Geno is anything more than a bridge quarterback. I'm dead set against extending his contract. What I am saying is that outside of the interceptions, not all of which are his fault, he's having a relatively decent year. PFF has his passing grade ranked 6th in the league. He's ranked 2nd in total yards, 5th in completion percentage. You don't get those kinds of numbers by playing with mirrors.

As far as your claim that he has one of the best receiving corps in the league, I'll respectfully disagree. Once again referring to PFF, JSN is our highest ranked receiver at #23. Metcalf is ranked #36. Lockett is ranked 47th. And, as we both mentioned, we are a pass happy team with virtually no running attack and a porous offensive line. PFF has them ranked 30th in pass blocking efficiency, which has led to Geno being the 3rd highest sacked QB in the league.

Given his supporting cast, Geno is doing quite well. He's not a top 10 QB, but he's not a bottom feeder, either. His interceptions and brain farts are holding our offense back, but at the same time, he's not the biggest problem we have, either. That distinction rests with our offensive line.

I don't consider PFF a good rating system. Because you can argue that Geno's lack of ability is keeping JSN, DK, and Tyler from having great years that would rate them higher because of the statistics used to measure the ranking. Geno should not be ranked 6th. He is not that good.

DK, JSN, and Tyler have are all high performers. I'd give money to see them play with a quality QB like Patrick Mahomes or another great passer and see what they're ranking is. When you're rankings are based on the QB's ability to get you the ball, throw deep, and maintain a high level of performance in the offense, of course the receivers will be lower rated. When you have a QB like Geno, you have to build the offense with the guardrails to keep things simple and efficient as possible which limits the upside of players like DK, JSN, and Tyler (though he is aging as well).

So using something like PFF to rate players is not what I consider a great system, which is why I don't rely on such rankings. I'd bet money with you in the 50 to 100 range that DK with a great QB is putting up way bigger numbers than he is with Geno.

Geno is a limitation on this offense. I think he isn't a great passer getting most of his numbers with short or high percentage passing that doesn't allow the receiving corps he has to shine unless they get YAC or extend the play. This lack of ability to draft a new quality QB after Russell fell into the gutter has wasted some of the best years of the best receiving corps we've had in years. That has been extremely frustrating.

Yes, OCs can play with mirrors to make a QB look much better than they are if they have great weapons around some scrub QB. It's what you've seen great offensive coaches do like Kyle Shananan do with Brock Purdy or Jimmie G because he can design plays to take advantage of guys like Deebo, Kittle, and McCaffrey. Whereas these scrub QBs if they go to a team wlth lesser talent look like scrub QBs. Put Geno on a bad Jets team or a team with minimal surrounding talent, he'd be much worse than he is right now. Whereas he looks like the 6th rated passer in Seattle with a great receiving corps making him look way better than he is while he makes them look worse than they are.

[River Dog]

I'm not arguing that Geno is anything more than a bridge quarterback. I'm dead set against extending his contract. What I am saying is that outside of the interceptions, not all of which are his fault, he's having a relatively decent year. PFF has his passing grade ranked 6th in the league. He's ranked 2nd in total yards, 5th in completion percentage. You don't get those kinds of numbers by playing with mirrors.

As far as your claim that he has one of the best receiving corps in the league, I'll respectfully disagree. Once again referring to PFF, JSN is our highest ranked receiver at #23. Metcalf is ranked #36. Lockett is ranked 47th. And, as we both mentioned, we are a pass happy team with virtually no running attack and a porous offensive line. PFF has them ranked 30th in pass blocking efficiency, which has led to Geno being the 3rd highest sacked QB in the league.

Given his supporting cast, Geno is doing quite well. He's not a top 10 QB, but he's not a bottom feeder, either. His interceptions and brain farts are holding our offense back, but at the same time, he's not the biggest problem we have, either. That distinction rests with our offensive line.

I don't consider PFF a good rating system. Because you can argue that Geno's lack of ability is keeping JSN, DK, and Tyler from having great years that would rate them higher because of the statistics used to measure the ranking. Geno should not be ranked 6th. He is not that good.

DK, JSN, and Tyler have are all high performers. I'd give money to see them play with a quality QB like Patrick Mahomes or another great passer and see what they're ranking is. When you're rankings are based on the QB's ability to get you the ball, throw deep, and maintain a high level of performance in the offense, of course the receivers will be lower rated. When you have a QB like Geno, you have to build the offense with the guardrails to keep things simple and efficient as possible which limits the upside of players like DK, JSN, and Tyler (though he is aging as well).

So using something like PFF to rate players is not what I consider a great system, which is why I don't rely on such rankings. I'd bet money with you in the 50 to 100 range that DK with a great QB is putting up way bigger numbers than he is with Geno.

Geno is a limitation on this offense. I think he isn't a great passer getting most of his numbers with short or high percentage passing that doesn't allow the receiving corps he has to shine unless they get YAC or extend the play. This lack of ability to draft a new quality QB after Russell fell into the gutter has wasted some of the best years of the best receiving corps we've had in years. That has been extremely frustrating.

Yes, OCs can play with mirrors to make a QB look much better than they are if they have great weapons around some scrub QB. It's what you've seen great offensive coaches do like Kyle Shananan do with Brock Purdy or Jimmie G because he can design plays to take advantage of guys like Deebo, Kittle, and McCaffrey. Whereas these scrub QBs if they go to a team wlth lesser talent look like scrub QBs. Put Geno on a bad Jets team or a team with minimal surrounding talent, he'd be much worse than he is right now. Whereas he looks like the 6th rated passer in Seattle with a great receiving corps making him look way better than he is while he makes them look worse than they are.

First off, PFF is as good as there is in the field of rating player and position group performances. They are the gold standard for what they do. NFL scouts use them in their own analysis of players, so they must be doing something right. I'm not claiming that they are perfect, but they shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant as you seem to be doing.

Secondly, as I keep saying, I am not trumpeting Geno as a top 10 quarterback. He's middle of the pack, somewhere between #12 and #22, the middle 1/3 if I were to rank them. His total passing yards are somewhat inflated due to our overdependence on our passing game. Better protection and/or a better running attack is bound to help him as it would help any QB. That has to be taken into consideration.

We're probably closer to agreeing about Geno than we are disagreeing.

[Aseahawkfan]

First off, PFF is as good as there is in the field of rating player and position group performances. They are the gold standard for what they do. NFL scouts use them in their own analysis of players, so they must be doing something right. I'm not claiming that they are perfect, but they shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant as you seem to be doing.

Secondly, as I keep saying, I am not trumpeting Geno as a top 10 quarterback. He's middle of the pack, somewhere between #12 and #22, the middle 1/3 if I were to rank them. His total passing yards are somewhat inflated due to our overdependence on our passing game. Better protection and/or a better running attack is bound to help him as it would help any QB. That has to be taken into consideration.

We're probably closer to agreeing about Geno than we are disagreeing.

I would be extremely surprised if NFL scouts used PFF much. It would show why they are bad at drafting. There is no way some site can accurately show all the variables involved in games or teams to come up with some magic "Moneyball" reading for football given all the variables that affect players like bad O-lines affecting the run game or pass game or receivers who have lame QBs padding stats to look better than they are throwing to them. I don't buy it. Good scouts running tape and going to games is how you scout, not looking at a web site with number generated by a method that may or may not be relevant to measuring talent.

I would bet money that DK would be a top 5 receiver on a team with a good QB and he has a 1500 to 1800 yard season with 12 to 18 TDs in him on a team with a high quality QB. But unfortunately for DK, Tyler, and JSN, they have had to play with a Russ in decline and Geno. JSN also would be performing at a much higher level.

I still say Geno has one of the best WR groups in the league and he can't do much with it because he's not good. If you took our three WRs and put them on a team with Patrick Mahomes, they would be tearing it up regardless of how PFF rates them. They are top notch receivers and Geno can't use them well other than to pad his numbers making his ranking look ridiculous.

Anyone who can see him play knows Geno isn't a top, playoff performing QB. He certainly wouldn't be picked even 6th by pro scouts or GMs in this league which is why he has little trade value and if he leaves Seattle likely won't sign for much elsewhere. The idea that PFF rates Geno 6th in passing is enough for me to know the site isn't too accurate because I certainly wouldn't pick him as the 6th best passer in the league if we were dividing up players for teams. I rarely hear him mentioned in Fantasy Football as well save maybe as a backup.

[River Dog]

First off, PFF is as good as there is in the field of rating player and position group performances. They are the gold standard for what they do. NFL scouts use them in their own analysis of players, so they must be doing something right. I'm not claiming that they are perfect, but they shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant as you seem to be doing.

Secondly, as I keep saying, I am not trumpeting Geno as a top 10 quarterback. He's middle of the pack, somewhere between #12 and #22, the middle 1/3 if I were to rank them. His total passing yards are somewhat inflated due to our overdependence on our passing game. Better protection and/or a better running attack is bound to help him as it would help any QB. That has to be taken into consideration.

We're probably closer to agreeing about Geno than we are disagreeing.

I would be extremely surprised if NFL scouts used PFF much. It would show why they are bad at drafting. There is no way some site can accurately show all the variables involved in games or teams to come up with some magic "Moneyball" reading for football given all the variables that affect players like bad O-lines affecting the run game or pass game or receivers who have lame QBs padding stats to look better than they are throwing to them. I don't buy it. Good scouts running tape and going to games is how you scout, not looking at a web site with number generated by a method that may or may not be relevant to measuring talent.

They do use it. We don't know to what degree a team uses their services, but they do use it:

Pro Football Focus says it provides custom data to all 32 NFL teams as well as more than 100 college football programs.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... 0da6e183b0

I would bet money that DK would be a top 5 receiver on a team with a good QB and he has a 1500 to 1800 yard season with 12 to 18 TDs in him on a team with a high quality QB. But unfortunately for DK, Tyler, and JSN, they have had to play with a Russ in decline and Geno. JSN also would be performing at a much higher level.

I still say Geno has one of the best WR groups in the league and he can't do much with it because he's not good. If you took our three WRs and put them on a team with Patrick Mahomes, they would be tearing it up regardless of how PFF rates them. They are top notch receivers and Geno can't use them well other than to pad his numbers making his ranking look ridiculous.

Anyone who can see him play knows Geno isn't a top, playoff performing QB. He certainly wouldn't be picked even 6th by pro scouts or GMs in this league which is why he has little trade value and if he leaves Seattle likely won't sign for much elsewhere. The idea that PFF rates Geno 6th in passing is enough for me to know the site isn't too accurate because I certainly wouldn't pick him as the 6th best passer in the league if we were dividing up players for teams. I rarely hear him mentioned in Fantasy Football as well save maybe as a backup.

You could make that argument about a lot of WR's, i.e. that John Smith or Joe Jones would be a top 5 receiver with a good QB. There's a lot of very good WR's out there. It's a pointless argument.

And for what it's worth, I, too, think that a #6 passing ranking for a quarterback who has thrown as many INT's as TD's, particularly where he throws them, ie in the red zone when there's no pressure to score a TD like he did last Sunday, is too high of a ranking. For years, that's what held Geno back. It wasn't because he didn't write back.

But on the flip side of the coin, when you throw the ball an average of 38 times a game, 2nd most in the league, and have a nearly 70% completion percentage, 5th best in the league, along with the most total passing yards of any quarterback, that's saying something. That's likely one of the things PFF is looking at when evaluating quarterbacks.