Cams Deal numbers are in

[Anthony]

Sounds like a case of premature panication to me.

Sounds like a legitimate concern that is all.

[mykc14]

1 NO they will not when the resigned Lynch he still had 1 year left and not only did they extend lynch 2 ore years but they gave him (2) more money in 2015 which he was already signed for. (3)SO they not only gave him a new deal but changed the deal he was on. (4)Which is what they are now saying they will not do for Wilson.(5) Kam, Sherman, and Et were done before the redid Lynch's deal so that is not relevant. (6)LEt me try this one more time

""Lynch signed a two-year extension with the Seahawks on Friday that keeps him under contract with Seattle through the 2017 season, but more importantly includes a massive raise for the 2015 season. Lynch’s restructured deal will pay him $12 million for 2015, according to his agent Doug Hendrickson."

(7)See the part were not only did they extend Lynch while he had 1 more year left but they also restructured that5 year so he got more, after of course Lynch held out, threatened to retire etc etc. (8) Now that Wilson has completed 3 years they can do the same for him but have said they will not. (9)FYI I never criticized the Hawks for giving Wilson more talent not even sure were you are getting that from. so again I made it pretty clear what I am talking about and it is supported by facts.

I'm still lost so it looks like you are going to have to dumb it down for me some more. I don't even know where to start, so I guess I will just go in the order of your post. I put the numbers in the quoted portion that correspond with my post. Do me a favor and read the whole thing. When I read your post I read it all and I am trying to lay out my confusion to the points you are trying to make a clearly as possible.

1) How is Lynch getting redone with 1 year left on his contract any different than if RW gets redone this year?
2) Often times when a player redoes their contract they will be getting more money in the next year, it is called a signing bonus. Lynch's 2015 cap number before the extension: 8.5 mil. Lynch's cap number now: 8.5 mil. So in salary cap terms there is no change it is just what happens when a player gets an extension. They typically don't extend for less money.
3) I don't know what you are trying to say here. They not only gave him a new deal but changed his deal? Basically he signed a 2 year extension. It doesn't really matter what it is called. He was due to be a FA after 2015, now he is due to be a FA after 2017.
4) PC and JS have said this? I don't think so. Please tell me you are not referring to the media. Really? Show me one insider who says they have a 'source' in the Seahawks FO who says the Hawks are 'unwilling' to do Wilson's contract this offseason. The only media reports I have read implying that are pure speculation.
5) They are relevent because it shows a pattern of how the Hawks have treated their players in the past. They redid all of those players contracts with 1 year left. All of those players got more money in the first year of their deal, which you say was rare with Lynch (they all got a signing bonus).
6) I wish I knew how that quote supports your argument but I have read it a few times and don't see how. Is it the 'massive raise for 2015 part? That 'massive' raise was due to his signing bonus. You could say Richard Sherman got a 'massive raise' in the first year of his new deal (he was going to get 1.5 mil and he got 3.6 mil, or ET or all the rest. The only difference is Lynch's extension was for half as long so the signing bonus wasn't spread as far out. The big difference is their cap hits actually went UP but Lynch's stayed the SAME. Cap hit is the money that can actually be used to sign other players, like RW.
7) No I don't see that part you made up. The quote you offered never says anything about restructuring that last year at all. Maybe you need to go back and re-read that quote you have been using so much to prove this point. All it says is he signed an extension which gives him more money in 2015, again signing bonus.
8) Again WHO is saying the Hawks will not? PC or JS?
9) Yes you have. Once again you praised the Colts for getting Luck Gore and Johnson. When the Hawks did what they had to do to keep a better RB (Lynch) all you have done is criticize that move, that's what most of your argument has been about, I think. The Hawks signed a better receiver (Jimmy) and although you liked the move at first, in this very thread you claimed it was a move by the Hawks to justify getting rid of RW in the future. Getting more talent so that any old QB could lead the team.
Hopefully you can clear some of those things up for me so that I can understand what you are arguing.

[HumanCockroach]

Doesn't sound like a statement from someone who truly understands the value of Russell Wilson to this franchise or his overall value as the most versatile QB in the league.Pay him now...

Hawktawk Legacy


I value Wilson plenty, just am not willing to jump off a bridge because my personal impatience. No QB no matter how special wins alone, anyone claiming otherwise doesn't know anything about the sport, or at least success in the sport.

[RiverDog]

Sounds like a case of premature panication to me.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Anthony]

That pretty much sums it up.

Yes because you should never consider other possibilities.

[Anthony]

I'm still lost so it looks like you are going to have to dumb it down for me some more. I don't even know where to start, so I guess I will just go in the order of your post. I put the numbers in the quoted portion that correspond with my post. Do me a favor and read the whole thing. When I read your post I read it all and I am trying to lay out my confusion to the points you are trying to make a clearly as possible.

1) How is Lynch getting redone with 1 year left on his contract any different than if RW gets redone this year?
2) Often times when a player redoes their contract they will be getting more money in the next year, it is called a signing bonus. Lynch's 2015 cap number before the extension: 8.5 mil. Lynch's cap number now: 8.5 mil. So in salary cap terms there is no change it is just what happens when a player gets an extension. They typically don't extend for less money.
3) I don't know what you are trying to say here. They not only gave him a new deal but changed his deal? Basically he signed a 2 year extension. It doesn't really matter what it is called. He was due to be a FA after 2015, now he is due to be a FA after 2017.
4) PC and JS have said this? I don't think so. Please tell me you are not referring to the media. Really? Show me one insider who says they have a 'source' in the Seahawks FO who says the Hawks are 'unwilling' to do Wilson's contract this offseason. The only media reports I have read implying that are pure speculation.
5) They are relevent because it shows a pattern of how the Hawks have treated their players in the past. They redid all of those players contracts with 1 year left. All of those players got more money in the first year of their deal, which you say was rare with Lynch (they all got a signing bonus).
6) I wish I knew how that quote supports your argument but I have read it a few times and don't see how. Is it the 'massive raise for 2015 part? That 'massive' raise was due to his signing bonus. You could say Richard Sherman got a 'massive raise' in the first year of his new deal (he was going to get 1.5 mil and he got 3.6 mil, or ET or all the rest. The only difference is Lynch's extension was for half as long so the signing bonus wasn't spread as far out. The big difference is their cap hits actually went UP but Lynch's stayed the SAME. Cap hit is the money that can actually be used to sign other players, like RW.
7) No I don't see that part you made up. The quote you offered never says anything about restructuring that last year at all. Maybe you need to go back and re-read that quote you have been using so much to prove this point. All it says is he signed an extension which gives him more money in 2015, again signing bonus.
8) Again WHO is saying the Hawks will not? PC or JS?
9) Yes you have. Once again you praised the Colts for getting Luck Gore and Johnson. When the Hawks did what they had to do to keep a better RB (Lynch) all you have done is criticize that move, that's what most of your argument has been about, I think. The Hawks signed a better receiver (Jimmy) and although you liked the move at first, in this very thread you claimed it was a move by the Hawks to justify getting rid of RW in the future. Getting more talent so that any old QB could lead the team.
Hopefully you can clear some of those things up for me so that I can understand what you are arguing.

They are not relevant because they happened before Lynch threatened to retire. hold out and got his contract redone. As to the rest great but again they do not change the fact they treated Lynch differently then everyone else to include Wilson as of now and that shows us something as well. You refusal to acknowledge that shows us something too.

[mykc14]

They are not relevant because they happened before Lynch threatened to retire. hold out and got his contract redone. As to the rest great but again they do not change the fact they treated Lynch differently then everyone else to include Wilson as of now and that shows us something as well. You refusal to acknowledge that shows us something too.

I am not refusing to acknowledge that they treated Lynch differently. I just don't see how that has anything to do with Wilson. Is that really this big point that you have been trying to make? They treated Lynch differently. So what? Did they give Lynch the big contract extension that he wanted with 2 years left on his deal? No, they waited to extended him until there was only 1 year left on his deal, just like they did with EVERYBODY else listed and CAN STILL DO WITH WILSON. Lynch held out wanting to get extended before last season, the Hawks refused. They (hawks and Lynch) compromised by basically taking money he was going to earn (per game bonuses) and turned those into his salary. That situation has nothing to do with Wilson. Again, so the point your are apparently trying to make "The Hawks treated Lynch differently" is in no way similar to RW's situation. The part that is exactly the same, the fact that they extended him with 1 year remaining, is something they CAN STILL DO WITH WILSON. Also, way to gloss over all the other stuff in the post 'As to the rest great.' Yeah that is great it basically proves everything you have been saying is at best conjecture or speculation from writers, you have been criticizing the Hawks FO all offseason (except for a short time when they signed Graham), you never mention the who the 'they' is when you keep saying 'they have said they are not going to do that for RW,' you have been wrong about there being anything different about Lynch's extension, etc.

[NorthHawk]

The difference between Lynch and Wilson is Lynch made it crystal clear that he wanted a new contract if he was going to play again or he might have retired.
Wilson has said he's willing to wait it out.
If you read between the lines of what Wilson has said it's that he's not yet ready to sign any deal and he's actually said he's fine with playing out his contract.
It seems to me he's playing the waiting game to get the most leverage so even if he got a Flacco type offer he might not sign it at this time.
You can't force someone to sign a contract, no matter how good it is.

[c_hawkbob]

.
If you read between the lines of what Wilson has said it's that he's not yet ready to sign any deal and he's actually said he's fine with playing out his contract.

That makes it look as though he's just refusing to sign no matter what. I think he's willing to sign a decent deal ... but not just any deal.

[NorthHawk]

I get the impression he's just accumulating as much leverage as he can.
That's part of almost all negotiations to some degree.
We don't know what has gone on, what offers have been made, or what he really wants in a contract - and it's still real early in the process.
So to be worried at this point is a waste of time.

[Anthony]

The difference between Lynch and Wilson is Lynch made it crystal clear that he wanted a new contract if he was going to play again or he might have retired.
Wilson has said he's willing to wait it out.
If you read between the lines of what Wilson has said it's that he's not yet ready to sign any deal and he's actually said he's fine with playing out his contract.
It seems to me he's playing the waiting game to get the most leverage so even if he got a Flacco type offer he might not sign it at this time.
You can't force someone to sign a contract, no matter how good it is.

Ahh so in your mind the fact that Lynch was willing to hold out and screw the team made them cave, so in other words the FO are taking advantage of the fact Wilson will not do that and has said he will not. Yeah thanks for proving my point that they treated Lynch differently than they are Wilson despite the fact the do not have to. The fact is they could offer Wilson a great contract that also adds some to this years salary but they are choosing not to at this point. Accomplishments are not what matters only threats. You are really making my point.

[Anthony]

I am not refusing to acknowledge that they treated Lynch differently. I just don't see how that has anything to do with Wilson. Is that really this big point that you have been trying to make? They treated Lynch differently. So what? Did they give Lynch the big contract extension that he wanted with 2 years left on his deal? No, they waited to extended him until there was only 1 year left on his deal, just like they did with EVERYBODY else listed and CAN STILL DO WITH WILSON. Lynch held out wanting to get extended before last season, the Hawks refused. They (hawks and Lynch) compromised by basically taking money he was going to earn (per game bonuses) and turned those into his salary. That situation has nothing to do with Wilson. Again, so the point your are apparently trying to make "The Hawks treated Lynch differently" is in no way similar to RW's situation. The part that is exactly the same, the fact that they extended him with 1 year remaining, is something they CAN STILL DO WITH WILSON. Also, way to gloss over all the other stuff in the post 'As to the rest great.' Yeah that is great it basically proves everything you have been saying is at best conjecture or speculation from writers, you have been criticizing the Hawks FO all offseason (except for a short time when they signed Graham), you never mention the who the 'they' is when you keep saying 'they have said they are not going to do that for RW,' you have been wrong about there being anything different about Lynch's extension, etc.

Of course not I mean the facts they not only extended Lynch but also gave him more in the final year of this contract, something they can now do with Wilson but have said they will not, has nothing to do with Wilson at all.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="HumanCockr

I value Wilson plenty, just am not willing to jump off a bridge because my personal impatience. No QB no matter how special wins alone, anyone claiming otherwise doesn't know anything about the sport, or at least success in the sport.[/quote

Of course it takes a team. But a great QB is usually the common denominator of great teams who sustain success. RW gets tagged with this "well its all because of the great defense". Name me a HOF SB winning QB who didn't ride a great defense or at least one that played great at the right time, see SB 49 as an example.Staubach? Bradshaw. Big Ben, Montana.Theres HOFers on both sides of the ball. And look a little closer at the Pats. In their incredible successful run there have only been two common denominators. Billacheat and Brady. I'm sure Brady is the only guy left on the roster from the first 2 and maybe first 3 SBs.But they kept winning. So I guess it gets down to how much one REALLY does value RW, lip service aside.Is he that type of transcendent leader or something less? Why is paying the winnningest QB of all time first 3 seasons coming off back to back SB appearances Flacco money "jumping off a cliff"? Its doing the right thing by the face of the city and franchise, a reward justly earned over 3 electric seasons.

Money talks, BS walks. Pay him top money, should have in the beginning.

[RiverDog]

Pay him top money, should have in the beginning.

How do you know that we haven't offered him "top money"?

[obiken]

Why does he have to get paid more just cause he's better?? Come on when does it start being irrelevant after 2 or 3 million a year?

[NorthHawk]

"Ahh so in your mind the fact that Lynch was willing to hold out and screw the team made them cave, so in other words the FO are taking advantage of the fact Wilson will not do that and has said he will not. Yeah thanks for proving my point that they treated Lynch differently than they are Wilson despite the fact the do not have to. The fact is they could offer Wilson a great contract that also adds some to this years salary but they are choosing not to at this point. Accomplishments are not what matters only threats. You are really making my point."

1) How do you know Wilson isn't doing the same thing as Lynch?
2) How do you know Wilson has decided to wait no matter the offer in the belief that the longer this goes on the more money will be on the table?

That's really making my point because none of us know jack chit about what the discussions have been about.
Since we don't know any of this information, you are simply talking out your butt.

[NorthHawk]

So, here's a story that says Wilson's agent has sent a position paper to the Seahawks.
Note how we are hardly along in this process? Not too much to get your panties in a knot about.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... /#comments

[mykc14]

Of course not I mean the facts they not only extended Lynch but also gave him more in the final year of this contract, something they can now do with Wilson but have said they will not, has nothing to do with Wilson at all.

Once again, SHOW ME WHERE THE SEAHAWKS HAVE SAID THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anthony]

How do you know that we haven't offered him "top money"?

How do you know they have, all indications are 4 years 80 mil, JS own comments about the rest of the team tell you they have not.

[Anthony]

Why does he have to get paid more just cause he's better?? Come on when does it start being irrelevant after 2 or 3 million a year?

Tell that to Lynch

[Anthony]

"Ahh so in your mind the fact that Lynch was willing to hold out and screw the team made them cave, so in other words the FO are taking advantage of the fact Wilson will not do that and has said he will not. Yeah thanks for proving my point that they treated Lynch differently than they are Wilson despite the fact the do not have to. The fact is they could offer Wilson a great contract that also adds some to this years salary but they are choosing not to at this point. Accomplishments are not what matters only threats. You are really making my point."

1) How do you know Wilson isn't doing the same thing as Lynch?
2) How do you know Wilson has decided to wait no matter the offer in the belief that the longer this goes on the more money will be on the table?

That's really making my point because none of us know jack chit about what the discussions have been about.
Since we don't know any of this information, you are simply talking out your butt.

Well let me put it another way if Wilson is doing the same thing as Lynch and they are not giving into Wilson like the did to Lynch you just again proved my point. FYI WIlson already said he would play under his current deal, not retire, or hold out.

[Anthony]

Once again, SHOW ME WHERE THE SEAHAWKS HAVE SAID THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude I am not searching all over the place to find it again you search yourself it was posted here on this board.

[mykc14]

Dude I am not searching all over the place to find it again you search yourself it was posted here on this board.

No it wasn't. PC and JS have never said they are not going to pay Wilson this year. Never happened. If it has then find it. You are the one trying to prove some point, so prove it. You asked the same thing of futurite many times and chided him when he responded exactly how you have, when he told you to find the info yourself. Stop using it as some sort of argument until you can show some sort of proof that PC or JS said they are unwilling to extend RW this year. What did you call future when he did this same thing, oh yeah you continually called him a liar.

[NorthHawk]

I may have missed some things, but the only thing I've ever heard Pete say is the talks are ongoing, an agreement will eventually be reached and he fully expected Wilson to be a Seahawk for a long time. I've heard him say that a number of times in different ways.

[Hawktawk]

How do you know that we haven't offered him "top money"?

Really RD? Are you kidding?Its obvious they have low balled him to the point of being insulting in light of subsequent signings of inferior players. Geez man come on..

[mykc14]

Really RD? Are you kidding?Its obvious they have low balled him to the point of being insulting in light of subsequent signings of inferior players. Geez man come on..

Not obvious at all. I could say its obvious RW and his agent have demanded more money to the point that PC and JS have been insulted which has allowed inferior players to be paid while RW remains on his rookie contract. I don't think that's the case but to put it all on the side of management is pure speculation. Once again it is a negotiation. Many people think its as simple as just giving RW what he asks because he is worth it. You cannot run a franchise like that. Plus with any negotiation this big its not simple but that is especially true with RW. For all we know RW really wants to still have an option to play baseball and the Hawks are balking at that. Again, I don't think that is a major sticking point but it could be because WE DON'T KNOW the course the negotiations have taken. Geez man come on..

[RiverDog]

Really RD? Are you kidding?Its obvious they have low balled him to the point of being insulting in light of subsequent signings of inferior players. Geez man come on..

Yes, really, and no, I am not kidding. Neither of us are in the loop in these discussions, so it is impossible for anyone outside the immediate participants to tell exactly why this process seems to have hit a snag. Your conclusion that it's JS that's holding things up is pure speculation. We don't know what Russell's demands are or what he would be willing to sign for, nor do we know exactly what it is that the team has offered or if there was even an offer that was on the table.

I get the impression that as mykc stated, that some of you think that we should just let Russell name is price and be done with it, but that's not a good way to run a railroad. As much as I like Russell and as much as I think that he's critical to our continued success, I'd rather let him walk than sign him to a contract that is going to keep us from being perennial SB contenders as we have been for the past 3 years. I understand the frustration caused by all of this uncertainty and having to deal with all the rumors, such as the one SBB articulated in another thread, but we just have to be patient and trust our FO to do what's in the best interest of our team.

I see that we've started negotiations with extending Bobby Wagner's contract, which is a clear indication that the progress on Russell's contract is not going as well as they'd hoped.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sion-talks

It's a smart move as signing Wagner would relieve us of a huge dilemma as we don't want both to hit the free market as we can only apply the FT to one of them. Signing Wagner first would give us a better idea of how much we can afford to spend resigning Russell. We don't want to go into the season with question marks surrounding two major pieces of our future. Moving Wagner to the front burner might take a little bit of pressure off the RW negotiations and allow both sides to take a step back.

[NorthHawk]

Let's take a step back ourselves and see what has happened in the last few months regarding Wilson's contract.

We know the following:
1) The team made some type of opening offer.
2) The 2 sides had a meeting (which according to both sides went well) and discussed the issues.
3) Wilson's Agent has sent a position paper to the team presumably with salary expectations and explanations of why they think he should get the money they are asking.
4) Wilson has said he's fine with playing out his contract and also having the Franchise Tag used.

I believe that's all we really know at this point. Anything else is just guessing on our part.

Does anyone have any evidence we know more?

Keep in mind that the player will ask for more than he really expects to get and the team will offer less than they know they will settle on.
An agreement will eventually be reached somewhere in between the current positions.
It's basically how contract negotiations work and we are still at the early stages in this dance.

[RiverDog]

Let's take a step back ourselves and see what has happened in the last few months regarding Wilson's contract.

We know the following:
1) The team made some type of opening offer.
2) The 2 sides had a meeting (which according to both sides went well) and discussed the issues.
3) Wilson's Agent has sent a position paper to the team presumably with salary expectations and explanations of why they think he should get the money they are asking.
4) Wilson has said he's fine with playing out his contract and also having the Franchise Tag used.

I believe that's all we really know at this point. Anything else is just guessing on our part.

Does anyone have any evidence we know more?

Keep in mind that the player will ask for more than he really expects to get and the team will offer less than they know they will settle on.
An agreement will eventually be reached somewhere in between the current positions.
It's basically how contract negotiations work and we are still at the early stages in this dance.

As I stated above, we do know that the team has begun negotiations with Wagner, which will have an effect on the RW talks and is a clear indication that the RW talks are not going well. And we know that both Cam Newton and Ryan Tannehill, both unarguably lesser quarterbacks to Russell, signed contracts above what was expected, raising the bar for Russell somewhat, and that there are no other starting quarterbacks with contract talks that are in progress, meaning that there is no longer pressure to get a deal done now, which might have influenced the Hawk's decision to change the focus to resigning Wagner and (perhaps) put the talks with Russell on the back burner for awhile.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm sorry but I don't think the Wagner negotiation is a clear indication of anything other than our staring negotiations with Wagner. How can it be "a clear indication" of anything having to do with the Wilson negotiations? Unless of course you believe it an either/or situation between the two players ...

I don't. This Front office can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[RiverDog]

I'm sorry but I don't think the Wagner negotiation is a clear indication of anything other than our staring negotiations with Wagner. How can it be "a clear indication" of anything having to do with the Wilson negotiations? Unless of course you believe it an either/or situation between the two players ...

I don't. This Front office can walk and chew gum at the same time.

IMO they were confident that they could sign Russell within a relatively short amount of time so they waited to start talking with Wagner. Russell was the priority and they wanted his done first so they knew exactly what they could afford to pay Bobby. IMO they wanted to get both done before the start of training camp. Pete has a lot of bridges to rebuild from the fallout of SB 49 and there's a couple of other unhappy campers in Bruce Irvin and Michael Bennett he's going to have to deal with. He doesn't need anymore distractions.

But with all the noise coming out of the RW camp that he's prepared to play out his current deal and with training camp getting closer and closer, they've decided to at least get Wagner's done. It would be a disaster if we were to let both players hit the market as then we then might very well be forced to choose between one or the other as there's only one franchise tag.

That's my take. Strictly an opinion.

[Hawktawk]

Choose RW. Its a no brainer. Not even a remotely close call.

[RiverDog]

Choose RW. Its a no brainer. Not even a remotely close call.

You're missing the point. The point is that we don't want to be forced into having to make a choice, we want to sign both players to LTC's. We can probably deal with one of them in FA, but if our goal is to sign both, we're almost certain to lose at least one of them if they both hit the market at the same time. Doing it your way, ie sign Russell at any cost, effectively says goodbye to Wagner.

[HumanCockroach]

No, no RD, didn't you know every time they sign any player, they are stating they hate Wilson! Haven't you been paying attention in this thread. Hell, they should simply cut everybody, Wilson can win it all on his own, and nn't need a defense, RB, TE receiver or anyone else, he is that good. Paying to keep all pros, is simply foolish, insulting, petty and stupid, damnit!

LMFAO.

It doesn't matter that he will be signed, it doesn't matter that Seattle is trying to ensure long lasting success for both Wilson and the team! Because WE wanted it done 1 minute after the SB and Seattle did not do it, so the coach and GM that built this team from nothing, and brought them to consecutive SB's, winning one, and being one yard short of joining that exclusive back to back club, and has it primed for at least a few more shots, are idiots! Don't you get it? Fire them both, because our impatience is more important than success or more Lombardis.... Sniff, sniff....


ROTFLMFAO.

[Anthony]

As I stated above, we do know that the team has begun negotiations with Wagner, which will have an effect on the RW talks and is a clear indication that the RW talks are not going well. And we know that both Cam Newton and Ryan Tannehill, both unarguably lesser quarterbacks to Russell, signed contracts above what was expected, raising the bar for Russell somewhat, and that there are no other starting quarterbacks with contract talks that are in progress, meaning that there is no longer pressure to get a deal done now, which might have influenced the Hawk's decision to change the focus to resigning Wagner and (perhaps) put the talks with Russell on the back burner for awhile.

Or it could be that they are very close with Wilson