Defensive end out of Missouri looks draftable btw he is gay.

[Eaglehawk]

Of course, I wasn't comparing Sams to Aaron Hernandez. If I took HC's comment out of context, he certainly took mine out of context as well. My point was that teams research every minute detail of a prospective player's background so there are no surprises, and the plight of Aaron Hernandez is the most dramatic example of a team that either ignored or didn't properly research the red flags in his background. That doesn't mean I am calling Sams sexual orientation a "red flag" or comparing him to AH. It simply demonstrates the need for teams to research a prospective draftee's character, be it good or bad. I'm sure our FO knew a thing or two about Russell Wilson's character, and that it may have helped to convince them that he was worth the gamble.

Teams will factor in a whole range of off field activities and behavior of potential draftees in preparation for draft day, and I am certain that issues surrounding Sams sexual orientation will be mentioned in the scouting reports..as if coaches and GM's don't already know. Whether or not it will be a deciding factor in their decision making remains to be seen.

The Pats knew about his failed drug tests, and disciplinary problems at Florida. No other team wanted the guy. He was a first round talent but dropped to 113 somewhere in the 4th Round when the Pats picked him. They knew the potential of problems but ignored it. Then they resigned him again even though he had 2 years left on his contract giving him 12 million guaranteed money.

Hope he enjoys that money buying better packaged artificial meals in prison. He will be there for life in my opinion.
Especially if it turned out he killed more than one person.

[Hawktawk]

I think the main thing with Sam is the disruption factor. Everyone in America who hasn't lived under a rock the last 25 years knows that gays are an accepted lifestyle in American culture. Its just that Sam is the first openly gay dude to be draftable. Ive been pessimistic about his prospects but seeing the direction of the social media, his standing O at the basketball game etc I think someone might take him early. So whatever.


Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

[Eaglehawk]

I think the main thing with Sam is the disruption factor. Everyone in America who hasn't lived under a rock the last 25 years knows that gays are an accepted lifestyle in American culture. Its just that Sam is the first openly gay dude to be draftable. Ive been pessimistic about his prospects but seeing the direction of the social media, his standing O at the basketball game etc I think someone might take him early. So whatever.


Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

No chit HK!

[RiverDog]

Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

The Hernandez case is an active criminal investigation that has yet to go to trial. The NFL is not going to start an investigation that could in any way interfere with the legal process. If something comes out at trial that the Patriots knew about any criminal activity and did not report it to the proper authorities, then perhaps an investigation would be warranted.

Besides, there is no evidence that has been reported by the scores of reporters covering this case that there was anyone employed by the Patriots that knew anything about the crimes that Hernandez was alleged to have committed.

[Hawktawk]

Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

The Hernandez case is an active criminal investigation that has yet to go to trial. The NFL is not going to start an investigation that could in any way interfere with the legal process. If something comes out at trial that the Patriots knew about any criminal activity and did not report it to the proper authorities, then perhaps an investigation would be warranted.

Besides, there is no evidence that has been reported by the scores of reporters covering this case that there was anyone employed by the Patriots that knew anything about the crimes that Hernandez was alleged to have committed.

Rolling Stone magazine reported that Billacheat was well aware of the fact that Hernandez was packing heat and acting paranoid.In fact it was Billacheat who recommended he rent a flop house that is now a central part of the investigation. Teammates reported that Hernandez regularly smoked several cigar wrap blunts after home games and also used PCP but even though the guy was a notorious drug abuser in college somehow there were no tests? Hernandez had been warned he would be released AFTER THE 2013 SEASON!!!! if he didn't shape up. Gotta get those wins no matter what the cost eh Bill? And it is also a fact that Billacheat neutered the Pats security detail a couple of years ago. Previously it had been comprised of current and former law enforcement officials and Billacheat replaced that arrangement with the former director of security for Wembley stadium in England. Oversight of players was basically nil after that point as the focus became more terrorism oriented.

At a minimum the HC has blood on his hands. He made a deal with the devil to win but he will never be held accountable.
Theres plenty there for the league to be looking at but with Goody's cozy relationship with Kraft it wont ever happen. Just look at spy gate. Billy cheat gets a fine he can wipe his arse with and Goody destroys the tapes. Meanwhile the HC, GM, and D coordinator for the Saints get suspended a year for some stupid bounty pool.

The Hernandez scandal reeks to high heaven but Goodell has hardly uttered a peep. But we get to hear all about Martin and Incognito. What a joke...

[EntiatHawk]

Part of Sams coming out party was the reports that the media was about to "out" him via leaks, which is equally wrong. So in a sense he was between a rock and a hard place.He did the same thing a lot of politicians did. He got out ahead of the story to put his narrative on it, his spin. IMO it was a very calculated decision by a mid round pick(RW, Sherman type money) to either enhance his stock with the right GM or make potential millions off of his celebrity. As I stated earlier there are comments from a teammate saying the locker room was definitely divided unlike the description Sam had given. Extrapolate that to the NFL locker room I think there will be some major issues, especially with guys who are either idiots(plenty) or guys who have a religious objection to the lifestyle.And those will be the people who will have the problems for their "intolerance" while Sam will get the kid glove treatment. It will be a bad thing for whatever team drafts him or signs him as a free agent.

No I do not think gays should "come out" anymore than I think heterosexuals should publicly discuss their favorite positions in the sack or their various conquests. If you are a gay or a lesbian don't hold a press conference. Bring your partner to the business function or team dinner and be who you are. Society in general has proven to be very tolerant for the most part.

Shut up and play.It doesn't make us bigots, it makes us football fans.

Hawktawk, I understand you sentiment and agree with some of it, but the problem is there are still a lot of bigots out there and intolerance. Till a football player can be seen in public with his partner and no one says anything then it can be a closed case no big deal. Till then this is the way it has to be till someone does come out and get society/football locker room passed the hurtle.

I for one hope he makes it and is at least a decent player in the pros. Then we can get on with the path that is is no big deal and it can be relegated to the non-news that it should be. But that's not where we are at yet in football. Now we just need Payton Manning declares he gay then we can be done with this.

[Hawktawk]

Hawktawk, I understand you sentiment and agree with some of it, but the problem is there are still a lot of bigots out there and intolerance. Till a football player can be seen in public with his partner and no one says anything then it can be a closed case no big deal. Till then this is the way it has to be till someone does come out and get society/football locker room passed the hurtle.

I for one hope he makes it and is at least a decent player in the pros. Then we can get on with the path that is is no big deal and it can be relegated to the non-news that it should be. But that's not where we are at yet in football. Now we just need Payton Manning declares he gay then we can be done with this.[/quote]

I'm beginning to wonder if Ive been way off base on the issue. My perspective is of a 55 year old red neck country boy raised in a holy roller church.It takes time to work through all that dogma and rules to figure out for yourself how you should believe. But I'm seeing reports of Micheal Sam getting a standing O at a Missouri basketball game. Also it is reported the Nets are considering signing a 10 day contract with openly gay Jason Collins, never mind he is a complete stiff with no talent other than being 7-4.

I'm thinking Sam might be a badge of honor for a progressive thinking franchise looking to tap into the market of gay fans etc. I hope the young man is just fine and its not a big deal. I still don't want the Hawks taking the risk though. Ill watch with fascination to see how it works out for whoever does.

[Eaglehawk]

Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

The Hernandez case is an active criminal investigation that has yet to go to trial. The NFL is not going to start an investigation that could in any way interfere with the legal process. If something comes out at trial that the Patriots knew about any criminal activity and did not report it to the proper authorities, then perhaps an investigation would be warranted.

Besides, there is no evidence that has been reported by the scores of reporters covering this case that there was anyone employed by the Patriots that knew anything about the crimes that Hernandez was alleged to have committed.

Rolling Stone magazine reported that Billacheat was well aware of the fact that Hernandez was packing heat and acting paranoid.In fact it was Billacheat who recommended he rent a flop house that is now a central part of the investigation. Teammates reported that Hernandez regularly smoked several cigar wrap blunts after home games and also used PCP but even though the guy was a notorious drug abuser in college somehow there were no tests? Hernandez had been warned he would be released AFTER THE 2013 SEASON!!!! if he didn't shape up. Gotta get those wins no matter what the cost eh Bill? And it is also a fact that Billacheat neutered the Pats security detail a couple of years ago. Previously it had been comprised of current and former law enforcement officials and Billacheat replaced that arrangement with the former director of security for Wembley stadium in England. Oversight of players was basically nil after that point as the focus became more terrorism oriented.

At a minimum the HC has blood on his hands. He made a deal with the devil to win but he will never be held accountable.
Theres plenty there for the league to be looking at but with Goody's cozy relationship with Kraft it wont ever happen. Just look at spy gate. Billy cheat gets a fine he can wipe his arse with and Goody destroys the tapes. Meanwhile the HC, GM, and D coordinator for the Saints get suspended a year for some stupid bounty pool.

The Hernandez scandal reeks to high heaven but Goodell has hardly uttered a peep. But we get to hear all about Martin and Incognito. What a joke...

He definitely made a deal with the Devil a murdering lying SOB. For him, winning the SB is the goal, come hell or high water.

[RiverDog]

Hernandez, that's a whole nother book, a whole nother thread. What did the Pats know and when did they know it? Honestly we had a special master appointed by Goodell investigating the Dolphins locker room and we have this gangster who may have killed 2 people before the Pats gave him 12 million guaranteed but no investigation? Thats a bigger story than Sam for sure.

The Hernandez case is an active criminal investigation that has yet to go to trial. The NFL is not going to start an investigation that could in any way interfere with the legal process. If something comes out at trial that the Patriots knew about any criminal activity and did not report it to the proper authorities, then perhaps an investigation would be warranted.

Besides, there is no evidence that has been reported by the scores of reporters covering this case that there was anyone employed by the Patriots that knew anything about the crimes that Hernandez was alleged to have committed.

Rolling Stone magazine reported that Billacheat was well aware of the fact that Hernandez was packing heat and acting paranoid.In fact it was Billacheat who recommended he rent a flop house that is now a central part of the investigation. Teammates reported that Hernandez regularly smoked several cigar wrap blunts after home games and also used PCP but even though the guy was a notorious drug abuser in college somehow there were no tests? Hernandez had been warned he would be released AFTER THE 2013 SEASON!!!! if he didn't shape up. Gotta get those wins no matter what the cost eh Bill? And it is also a fact that Billacheat neutered the Pats security detail a couple of years ago. Previously it had been comprised of current and former law enforcement officials and Billacheat replaced that arrangement with the former director of security for Wembley stadium in England. Oversight of players was basically nil after that point as the focus became more terrorism oriented.

At a minimum the HC has blood on his hands. He made a deal with the devil to win but he will never be held accountable.
Theres plenty there for the league to be looking at but with Goody's cozy relationship with Kraft it wont ever happen. Just look at spy gate. Billy cheat gets a fine he can wipe his arse with and Goody destroys the tapes. Meanwhile the HC, GM, and D coordinator for the Saints get suspended a year for some stupid bounty pool.

The Hernandez scandal reeks to high heaven but Goodell has hardly uttered a peep. But we get to hear all about Martin and Incognito. What a joke...

Rolling Stone magazine? You are suggesting that the league embark on a full fledged investigation based on unsubstantiated rumors while using as a source Rolling Stone magazine? LOL!

If significant evidence comes up during the Hernandez trial that any of New England's players and coaches were in any way aware of any criminal activity and didn't report it to the proper authorities, then I'll support calls for an investigation. But you're going to have to do a lot better than citing a lone article out of Rolling Stone magazine.

[Eaglehawk]

Rolling Stone magazine? You are suggesting that the league embark on a full fledged investigation based on unsubstantiated rumors while using as a source Rolling Stone magazine? LOL!

If significant evidence comes up during the Hernandez trial that any of New England's players and coaches were in any way aware of any criminal activity and didn't report it to the proper authorities, then I'll support calls for an investigation. But you're going to have to do a lot better than citing a lone article out of Rolling Stone magazine.

I never used to trust Rolling Stone until one of their journalists, editor, forgot the dude's name, wound up dead under mysterious circumstances because of coverage of a high ranking general. And the facts never made sense to me as to his death, cars don't just "explode" out of thin air. And CNN FOX MSNBC mentioned nothing about the reason why the car exploded, which I found strange. Maybe, I missed something. I believe some of the stories in RS more than many "mainstream" newspapers though every now and then I will be shocked by them, like when the NYT called Snowden a hero(in as many words). If I want the truth, I will check out Alternative media(google the term). It's taken a while for me to get to that point, but I am awake at least and not in the Matrix.

That being said Riv, in a court of law you need witnesses, facts, not hearsay, so yeah, a simple article will not cut it in court, or even for a criminal investigation, but for an investigation internally, why not? An investigation for a private enterprise like the NFL, they do not need mounds of evidence, they just need someone to answer a few questions honestly. Its not court. In light of the criminal trial, they probably will either wait until the trial is over, or not investigate at all. Trust me, after Hernandez is convicted, the NFL could easily be brought into court by the victims' family just based on the testimony of some of Hernandez's friends, in court on the criminal case. Its not a gimme, but possible.

Standard of proof is, for the civil case, preponderance of the evidence, instead of beyond a reasonable doubt(higher), so if they had good enough lawyers write up a CR11 proof complaint they may be able to bring in the NFL in the civil lawsuit. That depends on the criminal trial of course and private investigators that will work off the RS article to confirm, or deny some of allegations in that article. Not easy. With ole Billy and Goodell keeping quiet, its gonna be an uphill battle.

[RiverDog]

Oh, I agree that the standard of proof for a criminal trial is much higher than it is for an employer to make a judgment as to whether or not an employee violated team rules. But nevertheless, there has to be more credible evidence than rumors stemming from a borderline gossip magazine before I'll advocate that the league embark on some witch hunt. Hernandez's crimes were not carried out against the league, the team, or any other employee of the league, so I don't see any justification for the league to conduct an investigation based on what we know today.

Did Belichek ignore the rumors of Hernandez's drug use and character issues and make a pact with the Devil when he brought him in? Sure he did, just as Pete did when he traded for Percy Harvin. But Belichek did nothing illegal or against league rules, and to suggest that he has "blood on his hands" implies that he had some type of involvement in the murders Hernandez is accused of committing, which I find to be an outrageous and unsubstantiated accusation.

[c_hawkbob]

I have no problem with Rolling Stone's investigative journalism. It may have a different focus than we're used to, but I've never found it to be completely fabricated.

[HumanCockroach]

Sam to Miami.... That is my guess.

[NorthHawk]

Sam to Miami.... That is my guess.

To play opposite of Cameron Wake? Who did they have play opposite this year?

[HumanCockroach]

Sam to Miami.... That is my guess.

To play opposite of Cameron Wake? Who did they have play opposite this year?

Not necessarily, I think he ends up playing LB in the NFL. Unfortunately, I think Miami may make that pick as a PR move, which is very unfair to Sam IMHO, but I could definitely see them doing so to "prove" their "change in the program". I am not sure Sam translates as a true DE.

Like I said, just a guess, nothing more, and nothing solid to justify that guess.

[NorthHawk]

Sam to Miami.... That is my guess.

To play opposite of Cameron Wake? Who did they have play opposite this year?

Not necessarily, I think he ends up playing LB in the NFL. Unfortunately, I think Miami may make that pick as a PR move, which is very unfair to Sam IMHO, but I could definitely see them doing so to "prove" their "change in the program". I am not sure Sam translates as a true DE.

Like I said, just a guess, nothing more, and nothing solid to justify that guess.

As good a guess as any, I suppose. And moving him to LB might be right, but he's about the same size as Wake (6-3 around 260 while Sam is said to be 6-3 and about 255) so he might be a good bookend if he has the chops to rush the passer. Not many are like Wake, though so LB might be where he ends up.

Edit:
I just listened to his High School Coach talking about him and how he thinks Sam has a bit of a chip on his shoulder to want to prove himself.
I wonder if that is something that could lure our FO to select him if he slides to us in the draft? After all, those are the types they seem to like to sign.

[Eaglehawk]

Oh, I agree that the standard of proof for a criminal trial is much higher than it is for an employer to make a judgment as to whether or not an employee violated team rules. But nevertheless, there has to be more credible evidence than rumors stemming from a borderline gossip magazine before I'll advocate that the league embark on some witch hunt. Hernandez's crimes were not carried out against the league, the team, or any other employee of the league, so I don't see any justification for the league to conduct an investigation based on what we know today.

Did Belichek ignore the rumors of Hernandez's drug use and character issues and make a pact with the Devil when he brought him in? Sure he did, just as Pete did when he traded for Percy Harvin. But Belichek did nothing illegal or against league rules, and to suggest that he has "blood on his hands" implies that he had some type of involvement in the murders Hernandez is accused of committing, which I find to be an outrageous and unsubstantiated accusation.

You and I are in agreement then, except with the part about RS being a borderline gossip magazine. I think when I was young they were a bit sensational. To an extent they still are, but what I have noticed is that they really try hard to get it right. And their writers keep my attention until the article is finished. Really high quality. They are no low class Esquire mind you, they are much improved. Maybe you should try reading an article or two, then let me know what you think.

RS has impressed me from what I used to read from their articles back in the day.

[HumanCockroach]

To play opposite of Cameron Wake? Who did they have play opposite this year?[/quote]

Not necessarily, I think he ends up playing LB in the NFL. Unfortunately, I think Miami may make that pick as a PR move, which is very unfair to Sam IMHO, but I could definitely see them doing so to "prove" their "change in the program". I am not sure Sam translates as a true DE.

Like I said, just a guess, nothing more, and nothing solid to justify that guess.[/quote]

As good a guess as any, I suppose. And moving him to LB might be right, but he's about the same size as Wake (6-3 around 260 while Sam is said to be 6-3 and about 255) so he might be a good bookend if he has the chops to rush the passer. Not many are like Wake, though so LB might be where he ends up.

Edit:
I just listened to his High School Coach talking about him and how he thinks Sam has a bit of a chip on his shoulder to want to prove himself.
I wonder if that is something that could lure our FO to select him if he slides to us in the draft? After all, those are the types they seem to like to sign.[/quote]

Well I have a one in 32 chance of being right. LOL. Yeah the chip ( or as they describe it the grittiness) is something this front office likes, so Seattle is just as good as any landing spot, they certainly haven't been shy about getting players with that trait, with excellent results. Where ever the dude lands, hopefully this non news worthy aspect of his life quickly subsides and he can just play ball.

[RiverDog]

You and I are in agreement then, except with the part about RS being a borderline gossip magazine. I think when I was young they were a bit sensational. To an extent they still are, but what I have noticed is that they really try hard to get it right. And their writers keep my attention until the article is finished. Really high quality. They are no low class Esquire mind you, they are much improved. Maybe you should try reading an article or two, then let me know what you think.

RS has impressed me from what I used to read from their articles back in the day.

Regardless of my acceptance or rejection of Rolling Stone magazine as a credible source, I want to hear it from another independent source before I go off half cocked calling for an investigation when there's nothing more to go on other than hearsay.

[burrrton]

Regardless of my acceptance or rejection of Rolling Stone magazine as a credible source

They had a "YAY COMMUNISM!" article recently. Pretty sure their credibility is in the crapper...

[monkey]

Regardless of my acceptance or rejection of Rolling Stone magazine as a credible source

They had a "YAY COMMUNISM!" article recently. Pretty sure their credibility is in the crapper...

Not to mention featuring the surviving Boston Marathon terrorist on the cover, as though he were some sort of celebrity or rock star.

Credibility and that magazine are about as far away from each other as the east is from the west.

Anyway...I tried to stay out of this thread, because I can only get into trouble with my opinion on it, (but screw it, I'm going to throw in what I think anyway, why should I hide who I am?),* but after seeing the following story, I could no longer remain silent.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000327801/article/michael-sam-wants-to-be-known-for-play-only
If Michael Sam wanted to only be known for playing football, then why did he tell the entire freakin WORLD what he does in the privacy of his own bedroom?
Clearly he is lying.
What he wants is attention and validation (and don't we all really?) and to be told that what he is doing is morally good, and to be popular, and respected, and talked about, and famous, and emulated, and pampered and etc...
The one thing he clearly doesn't want. is to be known as JUST a football player!
He wouldn't have had that insane media event he had when he "came out" to the entire planet, with the media in on it and making it a spectacle for the ages if that were all he wanted!
He's a previously unknown player, projected to be drafted in the fifth round at best before he "came out", because he's not all that special as a football player, who is now holding press conferences which DWARF those of players who are actually MUCH better at the game of football, and yet he has the audacity to claim he just wants to be known as a football player?!?


*Seriously, why should I hide my feelings? (he says un-ironically...or completely tongue in cheek at any rate).
People who practice ANY form of aberrant sexuality, whether it be bestiality, necrophilia, homosexuality or pedophilia ALL try to claim that they cannot help how they feel, and that they were born that way. Therefore, either homosexuality, falls into the exact same category of sexual deviance as those other forms of sexual deviance, and they are all genetic abnormalities, or else they fall into the category of that weirdo who claims that he cannot stop having feelings for his plastic blow up doll, or the guy who thinks he's in love with his lawnmower, (a mental disorder), because NONE of those perversions serve the purpose of reproduction of the species, which is what we are genetically programmed to do.

Until it is proven by science that homosexuality is in fact some kind of genetic defect (and that is what it would be, since there is no reason for a gene to exist that isn't trying to procreate itself), then I believe it is a moral defect, a perversion of the natural desire to procreate, or else a mental disorder, and I choose to call it that.
If someday there is proven to be a genetic link to those sexual perversions, then I hope that we can start working on a cure as soon as possible!
We should do all we can to help those poor people cursed with such a horrible affliction!
Imagine being unable to stop desiring to have sex with children....or the dead...or animals...how sad!
You could never have a normal relationship, and your risk of exposure to STD's and other diseases would be so high. If someday perversions of this sort are proven to be genetic defects, then I will pity these poor souls, and lead the charge to find a cure. I do not hate, or fear them, I do not actively go out of my way to avoid them, or to harass them, but neither do I support their calls for so called "gay-marriage", I am already happily married, and they can be too, no one is stopping them from getting married, what they want is something DIFFERENT from what marriage is.

[HumanCockroach]

SMH. Are we really still this lost on the subject of sexuality? Sex feels good, so people ( just like animals) do it. Are you seriously attempting to tell people Monkey that you have never had any sexual contact that wasn't expressly for the purpose of enjoyment? And if not than by your OWN admission, you yourself ( and EVERY other human being old enough to have had sex or taken care of themselves) fall into the SAME category.

You can believe what you want about the origin of it, I disagree, but what ever, but I just can't fathom people at this stage who STILL insist sex is for procreation, and nothing else. It ISN'T what it is any longer, and it HASN'T been that way, well, really EVER.

Debate the "defect" all you want, but please spare use the "purpose" at this point. I have two children, I PROMISE you that I have performed the act a HELL of a lot more times, and of those times, procreation was contemplated once, I guess I too am "defective", and damn proud of it.

[Oly]

If Michael Sam wanted to only be known for playing football, then why did he tell the entire freakin WORLD what he does in the privacy of his own bedroom?
Clearly he is lying.
What he wants is attention and validation (and don't we all really?) and to be told that what he is doing is morally good, and to be popular, and respected, and talked about, and famous, and emulated, and pampered and etc...
The one thing he clearly doesn't want. is to be known as JUST a football player!
He wouldn't have had that insane media event he had when he "came out" to the entire planet, with the media in on it and making it a spectacle for the ages if that were all he wanted!

Or he knew it would come out anyway and wanted to do it on his own terms.

He's a previously unknown player, projected to be drafted in the fifth round at best before he "came out", because he's not all that special as a football player, who is now holding press conferences which DWARF those of players who are actually MUCH better at the game of football, and yet he has the audacity to claim he just wants to be known as a football player?!?

He is not the one who is inviting these large crowds. Manti Te'o also had huge crowds, and I guarantee he also just wanted to be known as a player.

*Seriously, why should I hide my feelings? (he says un-ironically...or completely tongue in cheek at any rate).
People who practice ANY form of aberrant sexuality, whether it be bestiality, necrophilia, homosexuality or pedophilia ALL try to claim that they cannot help how they feel, and that they were born that way. Therefore, either homosexuality, falls into the exact same category of sexual deviance as those other forms of sexual deviance, and they are all genetic abnormalities, or else they fall into the category of that weirdo who claims that he cannot stop having feelings for his plastic blow up doll, or the guy who thinks he's in love with his lawnmower, (a mental disorder), because NONE of those perversions serve the purpose of reproduction of the species, which is what we are genetically programmed to do.

WTF?! I claim that I'm straight because I'm born that way. Does that mean that I fall into the category of sexual deviance? Because your logic here is that as long as I claim my actions are due to my genetics, then I'm as f**ked up as people who are genuinely f**ked up as long as our justifications are the same. I seriously don't know how you can argue this.

Until it is proven by science that homosexuality is in fact some kind of genetic defect (and that is what it would be, since there is no reason for a gene to exist that isn't trying to procreate itself), then I believe it is a moral defect, a perversion of the natural desire to procreate, or else a mental disorder, and I choose to call it that.

Homosexual contact has been found in many other species in the wild. Seriously, read about bonobo or dolphin sexual behavior sometime. They get more dude-on-dude action than Ron Jeremy gets tail.

But you clearly don't understand the complicated nature of epigenetics, or how science works. First, science never "proves" anything. Mathematicians do, and scientists do only when they use mathematical models. Second, single genes don't encode complex behaviors, which means that your armchair theorizing about the genetic underpinnings of sexual orientation is completely screwy. Third, because you're leaving out the influence of prenatal experience on gene expression, you miss the fact that outcomes can be genetically influenced without having been explicitly selected for in evolution. Fourth, the available evidence strongly suggests a genetic underpinning to sexual orientation, especially in men. If you care to read actual research, you can start with this review: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16143171. (FWIW, it is true that the research suggests that although male homosexuality is strongly genetic, the same is less true of women, and so it is not the case that 100% of the variability in sexual orientation is genetically determined. But a very large chunk of it is. Fifth...do I need a fifth? Something tells me I'm wasting my time.

If someday there is proven to be a genetic link to those sexual perversions, then I hope that we can start working on a cure as soon as possible!
We should do all we can to help those poor people cursed with such a horrible affliction!
Imagine being unable to stop desiring to have sex with children....or the dead...or animals...how sad!
You could never have a normal relationship, and your risk of exposure to STD's and other diseases would be so high. If someday perversions of this sort are proven to be genetic defects, then I will pity these poor souls, and lead the charge to find a cure. I do not hate, or fear them, I do not actively go out of my way to avoid them, or to harass them, but neither do I support their calls for so called "gay-marriage", I am already happily married, and they can be too, no one is stopping them from getting married, what they want is something DIFFERENT from what marriage is.

Awesome. Let me know how your quest for genetic purity turns out. The one thing society needs is a modern eugenics movement to cleanse all of those filthy people of their unclean traits that we purebloods hate. And to think that they have to temerity to actually enjoy their lives. The least those mongrels could do is have the decency to be self-loathing.

[RiverDog]

Regardless of my acceptance or rejection of Rolling Stone magazine as a credible source

They had a "YAY COMMUNISM!" article recently. Pretty sure their credibility is in the crapper...

Not to mention featuring the surviving Boston Marathon terrorist on the cover, as though he were some sort of celebrity or rock star.

Credibility and that magazine are about as far away from each other as the east is from the west.

Yep. I remember the bomber cover story. Their journalistic ethics leaves much to be desired.

[HumanCockroach]

And properly hidden for the deviants they are eh Oly? SMH. I seriously don't get the " keep in the closet" thought process so many people attempt to make important. Honestly, it seriously strikes me a a weak attempt at a compromise. They want to bash them, realise it isn't acceptable, and so in compromise profess it as a "choice" and that they should all just have the decency to hide like the people before them. Pretend to be something they aren't for everyone elses sake.

I seriously can't grasp it. Why people can't simply let what someone else ( ESPECIALLY someone they have NEVER and more than likely WILL never meet) does go. Sam isn't HURTING ANYONE, so WHY the F does it matter?

[Oly]

And properly hidden for the deviants they are eh Oly? SMH. I seriously don't get the " keep in the closet" thought process so many people attempt to make important. Honestly, it seriously strikes me as a weak attempt at a compromise. They want to bash them, realise it isn't acceptable, and so in compromise profess it as a "choice" and that they should all just have the decency to hide like the people before them. Pretend to be something they aren't for everyone elses sake.

I seriously can't grasp it. Why people can't simply let what someone else ( ESPECIALLY someone they have NEVER and more than likely WILL never meet) does go. Sam isn't HURTING ANYONE, so WHY the F does it matter?

Like how we used to treat the legitimately mentally disabled in this country. If they are out of sight, hopefully they'll be out of mind.

Set the bar for scientific "proof," ignore the huge amount of evidence for a substantial genetic component, and feel justified in pulling the speck out of their brother's eye.

[HumanCockroach]

And properly hidden for the deviants they are eh Oly? SMH. I seriously don't get the " keep in the closet" thought process so many people attempt to make important. Honestly, it seriously strikes me as a weak attempt at a compromise. They want to bash them, realise it isn't acceptable, and so in compromise profess it as a "choice" and that they should all just have the decency to hide like the people before them. Pretend to be something they aren't for everyone elses sake.

I seriously can't grasp it. Why people can't simply let what someone else ( ESPECIALLY someone they have NEVER and more than likely WILL never meet) does go. Sam isn't HURTING ANYONE, so WHY the F does it matter?

Like how we used to treat the legitimately mentally disabled in this country. If they are out of sight, hopefully they'll be out of mind.

Set the bar for scientific "proof," ignore the huge amount of evidence for a substantial genetic component, and feel justified in pulling the speck out of their brother's eye.

Honestly, I am a little surprised that this country doesn't have that on it's ledger as well in regards to its history in regards to sexuality, at least not to the extent of some pretty damn barbaric "treatments" as they did with the mentally ill, cause you know we have to as a society "fix" everyone to be exactly like everyone else.... isn't that what is best? LOL..

[Eaglehawk]

Puritianical culure. They hide their sins behind closed doors.

[Hawktawk]

OK a couple of things. First about Sam. His recent press conference he came across as condescending and somewhat arrogant, shoving his gay status into the faces of those who tuned in while simultaneously wishing people would just focus on his football skills. He was branded with rainbow apparel. Its as I suspected he is looking like a tool for his sexual agenda as opposed to a humble man seeking acceptance. He didn't help his cause with his comments IMO.

Second about Rolling Stone magazine specifically and the horrific despicable Hernandez scandal in general. Rolling stone is and always has been controversial. I didn't like the cleaned up photo of the terrorist although the fact is he has become a heartthrob for many women. But the article also exposed the flaws in the police state jack booted thuggish approach of his eventual captors. They broke down doors, detained innocent people, and riddled a boat with a still unidentified man inside. They guessed right but lets say it was some passed out drunk? Besides in an era when the NSA apparently knows every time I wipe my arse how did the bombing happen anyway? An Av ante Gard news magazine is not so bad in this current political landscape.
As for the Hernandez article it was voluminous and went into great detail about Hernandez starting with his formative years and his evolution to the monster he eventually became. The article discussed warning signs ignored by the Patriots before drafting him and also their Pollyanna attitude after he began going deeper into the gang and violence culture as a member of their team.It investigated how the Pats and specifically Billacheat had greased the skids by reducing oversight of all players and how it was Billacheat who had recommended a "safe house" when he was personally aware of Hernandez weapons possession,paranoia and purported fear for his own life. At no point is there any indication that a therapist or a law enforcement agency was ever contacted.And the simple fact they dropped him like a hot potato immediately after the arrest and also did a jersey exchange tells me that organization was well aware he was a truly bad guy before the fact. Yes to me that says Bellicheck has BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. I think the bigger question is why no other media outlet has made an attempt to get to the bottom of this incredible story other than to report blandly on the facts of the case, court appearance schedule etc? Something tells me there is a fear of offending the zillion dollar baby that is the NFL.

[Eaglehawk]

OK a couple of things. First about Sam. His recent press conference he came across as condescending and somewhat arrogant, shoving his gay status into the faces of those who tuned in while simultaneously wishing people would just focus on his football skills. He was branded with rainbow apparel. Its as I suspected he is looking like a tool for his sexual agenda as opposed to a humble man seeking acceptance. He didn't help his cause with his comments IMO.

Second about Rolling Stone magazine specifically and the horrific despicable Hernandez scandal in general. Rolling stone is and always has been controversial. I didn't like the cleaned up photo of the terrorist although the fact is he has become a heartthrob for many women. But the article also exposed the flaws in the police state jack booted thuggish approach of his eventual captors. They broke down doors, detained innocent people, and riddled a boat with a still unidentified man inside. They guessed right but lets say it was some passed out drunk? Besides in an era when the NSA apparently knows every time I wipe my arse how did the bombing happen anyway? An Av ante Gard news magazine is not so bad in this current political landscape.
As for the Hernandez article it was voluminous and went into great detail about Hernandez starting with his formative years and his evolution to the monster he eventually became. The article discussed warning signs ignored by the Patriots before drafting him and also their Pollyanna attitude after he began going deeper into the gang and violence culture as a member of their team.It investigated how the Pats and specifically Billacheat had greased the skids by reducing oversight of all players and how it was Billacheat who had recommended a "safe house" when he was personally aware of Hernandez weapons possession,paranoia and purported fear for his own life. At no point is there any indication that a therapist or a law enforcement agency was ever contacted.And the simple fact they dropped him like a hot potato immediately after the arrest and also did a jersey exchange tells me that organization was well aware he was a truly bad guy before the fact. Yes to me that says Bellicheck has BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. I think the bigger question is why no other media outlet has made an attempt to get to the bottom of this incredible story other than to report blandly on the facts of the case, court appearance schedule etc? Something tells me there is a fear of offending the zillion dollar baby that is the NFL.

Let's just go one by one here Hawktawk:
1. Sam being the poster child for the gay movement and pumping this up way more than even I thought was necessary. Every team according to what I have read KNOWS they have gay players in their locker room. EVERY ONE. So I agree with this point. CHECK.

2. Rolling Stone article. People seem to be asleep as to how the Boston Bomber thing went down and how a kid in Orlando, who was a friend of the bomber and unarmed and being interrogated by the FBI suddenly got shot in the head by the FBI. And them shooting into a boat blindly, and the other 10 irregularities with people being shot and run over by police, Yet no one seems to give a damn except the Rolling Stone. If you don't believe Hawktawk and myself just you tube the Boston Marathon Bombings, and you can make up your own mind. But to me, too many questions unanswered. As well with Sandy Hook. (After you have researched this on youtube, then you can let me have it in the off topic section but not before). CHECK.

3. Hernandez scandal. The media is the Third Estate in politics. The NFL sleeps with both the R's and the D's. Bellicheat will be protected in this. The Rolling Stone article is a first start, but what people don't understand is that no other newspaper will touch it because it goes to circles too far up. Politicians get greased by the NFL all the time. Nuff said. CHECK.
Excellent post.

[NorthHawk]

Regarding Sam.
There was going to be a "first openly gay player" at some point so I doubt it would matter when, but the reaction would be the same.
The media is making more of it than most of society, I think. It's what they do - chase a story for a headline, sensationalize it, then a while later forget about it.
I'm hoping something else will catch their attention soon so we can all forget about it an move on.
Let's see what he can do on the field.

[burrrton]

2. Rolling Stone article.

Please tell me you're not actually defending that sh*tstain.

[EntiatHawk]

I am jumping down a bit but there are many cases of homosexuality among other species. As of 1999, nearly 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, have been observed engaging in same-sex behaviors; and is very well documented in about 500 species.

Now maybe that I came out of an environment (science) where I knew many so people of that gay and lesbian persuasion and got to know them that I do not find them for one threatening, or different than anyone else. Just because someone comes out and is honest about it does not change the fact of who they are.

I know many people have a philosophical persuasion, be it religious or other that may influence their beliefs but I try to judge each person on a one to one basis. I find it more morally corrupt if someone marries just for money and convenience, but that is my value system, some may find that perfectly acceptable.

[Eaglehawk]

2. Rolling Stone article.

Please tell me you're not actually defending that sh*tstain.

Nope not at all. I think he and his brother were set up by the FBI as patsies.

[burrrton]

2. Rolling Stone article.

Please tell me you're not actually defending that sh*tstain.

Nope not at all. I think he and his brother were set up by the FBI as patsies.

Did we land on the moon in 1969?

[Eaglehawk]

Did we land on the moon in 1969?

Yes sir.

Was Oswald the only person involved in the Kennedy assassination? (Shouldn't we take this off topic Burr? )

Here: http://www.hawkshack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=396

I made it easy for ya. If you can handle the truth.

[burrrton]

If you can handle the truth.

LOL. Thanks.

[HumanCockroach]

Conspiracy theory thread over here guys.....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=371

LOL

[Eaglehawk]

Conspiracy theory thread over here guys.....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=371

LOL

Not what I expected. I laughed my ass off!

[Eaglehawk]

If you can handle the truth.

LOL. Thanks.