Aldon Smith pleads no contest to 3 felonies...

[Futureite]

Interesting take Future considering everything I read, plus the discussion during the draft was that he had several "red flags" and was a high risk for off field trouble. Doesn't mean he was already in trouble, nor does it mean the Niners shouldn't have drafted him, or that he was guaranteed to get in trouble. The "A character" grade seems like a pretty long stretch to me, but regardless, he remains a felon, who with or without intent endangered multiple people, more than once.

I guess the character grade depends upon the report. The biggest drum pounded was his playing through a broken leg at Missouri. His work etic was lauded and supposedly he came from a stable family background. Like you say, that's a matter of opinion though.

My take is that he put himself in this position, so neither he nor the fans can complain about the outcome. If he/we do, then there's an issue.

[HumanCockroach]

I simply don't adhere to that belief. Far to many celebrities, politicians, rich, athletes etc that skate by on their fame and don't face the same penalties the rest of society faces should they do the same, or in many cases less than those that have the ability to do so. If he gets a tap on the wrist, I'll be upset about it, and I won't apologise for being so.

[Futureite]

I simply don't adhere to that belief. Far to many celebrities, politicians, rich, athletes etc that skate by on their fame and don't face the same penalties the rest of society faces should they do the same, or in many cases less than those that have the ability to do so. If he gets a tap on the wrist, I'll be upset about it, and I won't apologise for being so.

Agreed. I meant if Niner fans or Aldon complain about the length of the sentence or suspension. When you wllingly put yourself in a position for bad things to happen in life you have to accept the outcome.

[RiverDog]

I was not directing the PED comparison at you personally; it is one that I read quite often though.

This weekend I can drive to Nevada and buy M-80s and other fireworks that are illegal in CA, but does that make me a terrorist? Yes, I've broken the law. But unless I have demonstrated some intent to use them to commit a violent crime, what does it really say about my character? Not much.

That's the only issue that I have here. It's your right to say Aldon is a punk, a thug, or a danger to society - but he should should be punished for what actually occured, not an opinion. He should be punished by the league based upon possession of a firearm that is lillegal in CA and a DUI. Nothing more, nothing less. He has voluntarily sat and - to my knowledge - forfeited salary. At some point enough is enough. We are talking 10 games missed even with a 4 game suspension. That sounds just and fair to me.

Also, it is worth noting that Aldon entered the draft with an A+ character grade. Given that, it's a much easier case to make that he is a good, but troubled kid rather than the "thug" that people have tried to portray and punish him as. IMO, the irony is that fans in general attempt to apply that tag to him for their own personal reasons. The outrage is not for what he has done off the field, but because he is good at what he does on it. They do not want to see him in a uniform this yr because it weakens the 49ers. If he is suspended 16 games trust me, they'll go back to not giving two shits about how safe San Jose or better yet "Santa Clara" is while Aldon roams its streets. Lol let's be honest about that.

You're putting words into my mouth. I never called Smith a punk or a thug. I've called him exactly what he is...a convicted felon.

And let's get the record straight. You're speaking as if it was a singular charge. It was not. Smith was guilty of 3 felony counts. Same with his drunken driving arrests. Speak of it in the plural. And let's not forget the circumstances surrounding the last DUI... wrapped his car a tree at 7 in the morning, also was in possession of some weed, something that's strictly forbidden by the league and that they've suspended players for. And wassup with the airport incident? Is that a no-never mind? You're trivializing his transgressions.

But I do agree with you about one thing: He should be punished for what actually occurred... everything, the multiple weapons charges, DUI, weed, and the bomb threat. That's why I feel it should be AT LEAST an 8 game suspension. This stuff has been allowed to pile up because the league has a policy of waiting until the courts run their course, and in the meantime, Smith has continued to have run-ins with the law. Had the league suspended him immediately following each of these incidents, he'd be on his third or forth suspension by now. You're wanting him to get a volume discount.

[Futureite]

I was not directing the PED comparison at you personally; it is one that I read quite often though.

This weekend I can drive to Nevada and buy M-80s and other fireworks that are illegal in CA, but does that make me a terrorist? Yes, I've broken the law. But unless I have demonstrated some intent to use them to commit a violent crime, what does it really say about my character? Not much.

That's the only issue that I have here. It's your right to say Aldon is a punk, a thug, or a danger to society - but he should should be punished for what actually occured, not an opinion. He should be punished by the league based upon possession of a firearm that is lillegal in CA and a DUI. Nothing more, nothing less. He has voluntarily sat and - to my knowledge - forfeited salary. At some point enough is enough. We are talking 10 games missed even with a 4 game suspension. That sounds just and fair to me.

Also, it is worth noting that Aldon entered the draft with an A+ character grade. Given that, it's a much easier case to make that he is a good, but troubled kid rather than the "thug" that people have tried to portray and punish him as. IMO, the irony is that fans in general attempt to apply that tag to him for their own personal reasons. The outrage is not for what he has done off the field, but because he is good at what he does on it. They do not want to see him in a uniform this yr because it weakens the 49ers. If he is suspended 16 games trust me, they'll go back to not giving two shits about how safe San Jose or better yet "Santa Clara" is while Aldon roams its streets. Lol let's be honest about that.

You're putting words into my mouth. I never called Smith a punk or a thug. I've called him exactly what he is...a convicted felon.

And let's get the record straight. You're speaking as if it was a singular charge. It was not. Smith was guilty of 3 felony counts. Same with his drunken driving arrests. Speak of it in the plural. And let's not forget the circumstances surrounding the last DUI... wrapped his car a tree at 7 in the morning, also was in possession of some weed, something that's strictly forbidden by the league and that they've suspended players for. And wassup with the airport incident? Is that a no-never mind? You're trivializing his transgressions.

But I do agree with you about one thing: He should be punished for what actually occurred... everything, the multiple weapons charges, DUI, weed, and the bomb threat. That's why I feel it should be AT LEAST an 8 game suspension. This stuff has been allowed to pile up because the league has a policy of waiting until the courts run their course, and in the meantime, Smith has continued to have run-ins with the law. Had the league suspended him immediately following each of these incidents, he'd be on his third or forth suspension by now. You're wanting him to get a volume discount.

Donte' Stallworth: Hit and run DUI, killed a woman. 1 yr suspension.

Michael Vick: Killed and tortured dogs. Just over 1 yr suspension.

Again, you are advocating the NFL punish Aldon @ the same rate others have been punished for committing violent crimes. The law does not work that way, the NFL does not either. You are stacking these offenses up to build the tacit assertion that more = the same level of offense (as committed and punished by others). They do not. I believe he will have been treated fairly at 4 games.

[RiverDog]

Donte' Stallworth: Hit and run DUI, killed a woman. 1 yr suspension.

Michael Vick: Killed and tortured dogs. Just over 1 yr suspension.

Again, you are advocating the NFL punish Aldon @ the same rate others have been punished for committing violent crimes. The law does not work that way, the NFL does not either. You are stacking these offenses up to build the tacit assertion that more = the same level of offense (as committed and punished by others). They do not. I believe he will have been treated fairly at 4 games.

Same rate? 1 year, ie 16 games plus playoffs and everything in between, vs. 8 games, which allows him to participate in the preseason and the playoffs? What kind of fuzzy math is that?

[NorthHawk]

My guess is a maximum of 4 games, but probably less.

[Eaglehawk]

I have no idea how long he will be suspended. 4 days sounds about right.

[RiverDog]

My guess is a maximum of 4 games, but probably less.

Yea, the NFL has been putting out some feelers about the upcoming suspension, and what I'm hearing is 2-4 games. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

We'll have to wait and see what the court has to say at the sentencing hearing. I don't know enough about any precedents set in CA to make an educated guess at how hard they'll come down on Smith, but so long as they follow what they've been giving other similar transgressions, I'm OK with what ever they decide. If they don't give him any jail time, it could provide a means for Goodell to rationalize giving Smith nothing more than a rap on the knuckles.

BTW, depending on how the season breaks, an 8 game sentence for Smith could hurt us more than help us. We don't play the Niners until Week 13, so Smith would be available for both games against us. However, under the same scenario, Smith would miss one game vs. the Cards and both games vs. the Rams. So let's dispense with this notion that it's all about gaining an advantage for our team.

[Futureite]

Donte' Stallworth: Hit and run DUI, killed a woman. 1 yr suspension.

Michael Vick: Killed and tortured dogs. Just over 1 yr suspension.

Again, you are advocating the NFL punish Aldon @ the same rate others have been punished for committing violent crimes. The law does not work that way, the NFL does not either. You are stacking these offenses up to build the tacit assertion that more = the same level of offense (as committed and punished by others). They do not. I believe he will have been treated fairly at 4 games.

Same rate? 1 year, ie 16 games plus playoffs and everything in between, vs. 8 games, which allows him to participate in the preseason and the playoffs? What kind of fuzzy math is that?

I thought you had advocated a yr earlier. Maybe I was mistaken. 8 games was my initial guess. Man, I wish we had some actual football to discuss right about now! Instead we have Richard Sherman's address, Russell Wilson's ex-wife and Aldon Smith's sentence. Lol, pretty funny when you think about it. I am 38 and going by your picture you are probably 28 , and this is what we discuss.

[kalibane]

River, TI was part of a group that had a gunfight outside of an ATL club that left his friend dead. I do not know all the details of that case, but if memory serves the volume of weapons and where he carried them (not to mention the event I just noted) obviously made an easy case for him being a threat. So if Aldon had nefarious intent, why don't you just state what it was? All I am saying is nothing has been shown in his past or present to suggest he had intent to commit any violent act. You keep dancing around that and citing "felony" but you're not looking at any of the facts and circumstances. I don't believe he's an angel and he desrves some penalty, but 4 games on top of what he already voluntarily satvis more than enough.

As Northhawk posted, PEDs, bountygate etc effect the integrity of the game. Another fact that people dance around by excusing PED violations is that the NFL will not disclose certain PEDs that a player tested for. I am getting tired of reading "player X only smoked a bowl and he gets X number of games". In reality, that player may have been taking any number of pharmecuticals which gave him an unfair competitive advantage, just like barry Bonds.

Future you don't really know what you're talking about. TI was never involved in a shootout in Atlanta. The incident you are talking about happened in Cincinnati, which I remind you is where I happen to live. So I know all about this. Here's what really happened:

TI and his friends were in a local club after a show, being a celebrity he was getting a lot of attention and special treatment. Some local thugs didn't like that (as thugs are want to do) started some pushing and shoving in the club which was quickly broken up. Then they waited for TI to leave and decided it'd be a good idea to start shooting at them. There was no shootout. TI and his people jumped in their cars and took off and the local thugs tried to chase him down to finish the job. There were no charges against TI, there was no shooting from TI or his people it was just a couple of jealous people that wanted to make names for themselves trying to ambush people who were minding their business. And as a result his friend lost his life. TI was a witness for the state.

The crime that TI was convicted of was not connected to this incident in any way. It was purely a weapons charge. Aldon Smith actually discharged a weapon in public and incited a shootout, which actually goes beyond what TI served a year in jail for.

And if you are involved in the Law the way you purport, you know that intent can only be a mitigating factor when the crime you are charged with wasn't intended (Manslaughter instead of Murder for instance).

Whether he intended to commit another crime on top of the one he's being charged with does not matter. Stop trying to muddy the waters. It's a nonsense argument. If they found that he intended to commit another crime (murder for instance) then he'd be charged with conspiracy to commit murder in addition to the weapons charges. His intent when he bought the guns however was to break the law and that is the only relevant "intent" in this case.

The amount of rationalizing you are doing for Aldon Smith is unreal. Stevie Wonder can see where his path is headed, and it ain't good. He's been out of control for a little while now and it's only luck that has prevented someone from coming to serious harm as a result of his actions.

[Futureite]

River, TI was part of a group that had a gunfight outside of an ATL club that left his friend dead. I do not know all the details of that case, but if memory serves the volume of weapons and where he carried them (not to mention the event I just noted) obviously made an easy case for him being a threat. So if Aldon had nefarious intent, why don't you just state what it was? All I am saying is nothing has been shown in his past or present to suggest he had intent to commit any violent act. You keep dancing around that and citing "felony" but you're not looking at any of the facts and circumstances. I don't believe he's an angel and he desrves some penalty, but 4 games on top of what he already voluntarily satvis more than enough.

As Northhawk posted, PEDs, bountygate etc effect the integrity of the game. Another fact that people dance around by excusing PED violations is that the NFL will not disclose certain PEDs that a player tested for. I am getting tired of reading "player X only smoked a bowl and he gets X number of games". In reality, that player may have been taking any number of pharmecuticals which gave him an unfair competitive advantage, just like barry Bonds.

Future you don't really know what you're talking about. TI was never involved in a shootout in Atlanta. The incident you are talking about happened in Cincinnati, which I remind you is where I happen to live. So I know all about this. Here's what really happened:

TI and his friends were in a local club after a show, being a celebrity he was getting a lot of attention and special treatment. Some local thugs didn't like that (as thugs are want to do) started some pushing and shoving in the club which was quickly broken up. Then they waited for TI to leave and decided it'd be a good idea to start shooting at them. There was no shootout. TI and his people jumped in their cars and took off and the local thugs tried to chase him down to finish the job. There were no charges against TI, there was no shooting from TI or his people it was just a couple of jealous people that wanted to make names for themselves trying to ambush people who were minding their business. And as a result his friend lost his life. TI was a witness for the state.

The crime that TI was convicted of was not connected to this incident in any way. It was purely a weapons charge. Aldon Smith actually discharged a weapon in public and incited a shootout, which actually goes beyond what TI served a year in jail for.

And if you are involved in the Law the way you purport, you know that intent can only be a mitigating factor when the crime you are charged with wasn't intended (Manslaughter instead of Murder for instance).

Whether he intended to commit another crime on top of the one he's being charged with does not matter. Stop trying to muddy the waters. It's a nonsense argument. If they found that he intended to commit another crime (murder for instance) then he'd be charged with conspiracy to commit murder in addition to the weapons charges. His intent when he bought the guns however was to break the law and that is the only relevant "intent" in this case.

The amount of rationalizing you are doing for Aldon Smith is unreal. Stevie Wonder can see where his path is headed, and it ain't good. He's been out of control for a little while now and it's only luck that has prevented someone from coming to serious harm as a result of his actions.

Dude. He IS being charged with the crime he commited. He IS being punished based that crime. Everything you've posted boils down to the fact that you do not like the end result. Fine and dandy because that's what blog boards are for, but don't pretend like you 'know' how it all should play out and the public at large is getting hosed.

And for the record, in a criminal trial intent is EVERYTHING. Not part of case, not a factor to consider - but everything. This is in fact why you see so many varying degrees if punishment with BOTH celebrities and ordinary people. It's also why.the law allows a wide degree of discretion in the judge's ability to isdue a sentence.

My bad on TI. I didn't know the case and obviously misstated it.

Anyhow, I am ready to move on. You make valid points but I disagree.

[kalibane]

Future I'm not beefing about the result. I know why the result is going to be what it is and I'm not throwing a tantrum about that. I don't particularly care that he's not going to spend time in jail. I only brought up the TI incident because you stated that people don't get time for weapons charges without intent to commit another crime with those weapons. The TI case directly refutes that assertion.

My beef with you in this thread is how you are trying to spin this. Namely, the reason why Aldon Smith is going to get leniency and your attempt to extend an "intent" to some kind of arms length transaction. This is my beef with most of your posts in fact.

1. Why he's going to get leniency: He's going to get off with a slap because he's wealthy/famous and can afford a good attorney, combined with the fact that the DA's office wants to dispose of as many cases by plea as possible (because if everyone actually exercised their right to a trial, it would take years to see court on a simple possession charge), combined with the fact that the 49ers are going to give the judge assurances that Aldon will stay in line. It has virtually nothing to do with the actual crime he committed.

2. Intent has a lot to do with how crimes are sentenced, but not the way you are using it. Intent only relates to the crime he committed. Intent might have been a mitigating circumstance if he had done what you tried to pretend he did at first. He bought guns that were legal where he was and then forgot to register them when he moved to California, or didn't know they were illegal in California. But as I already stated... that wasn't the case. He exploited the loophole of different state laws to acquire weapons he knew were illegal where he lived. Intent should actually work against any sentence mitigation if it's going to be a factor. The fact that he didn't neccessarily intend to rob a bank, or shoot someone with those illegal weapons does not mitigate the weapons charge. If he had intended to commit a further crime (and they could prove it) then he would have simply been charged with additional crimes.

If intent worked the way you're saying it's like saying a guy could hack into classified pentagon files, get caught and charged and then when he shows up in court and says well yeah I did commit the crimes I'm accused of but I never intended to commit treason by disseminating those documents to a foreign power so I deserve leniency, and that he could expect to get a lesser sentence on those grounds.

I don't know why you feel the need to try and distort things the way you do, it's like you're trying to preserve some kind of moral high ground make it seem like Aldon Smith is an unpstanding citizen, which why do you care that much? Just because he's the 49er's best pass rusher? He's kind of a reporobate. What you're doing right now would be like me as a Sonics fan trying to act like Shawn Kemp sleeping with every woman that opened her legs, fathering children and not taking care of them really wasn't all that unreasonable. And since he didn't intend to get them pregnant so what's the big deal? All you've done is create a bunch of strawmen.

These players are what they are. And while I'm not going to scream bloody murder when he doesn't get the book thrown at him. I'm not going to pretend Aldon Smith is acting like a reasonable human being because he isn't.

[RiverDog]

I thought you had advocated a yr earlier. Maybe I was mistaken. 8 games was my initial guess. Man, I wish we had some actual football to discuss right about now! Instead we have Richard Sherman's address, Russell Wilson's ex-wife and Aldon Smith's sentence. Lol, pretty funny when you think about it. I am 38 and going by your picture you are probably 28 , and this is what we discuss.

I started out advocating a year, but I've since backed down to 'at least' 8 games. Since you had responded directly to my posts that referred to the 8 games, I'd assumed that you picked up on it. If the court comes down hard on Smith and causes him to miss half the regular season, then I'm ok with the league going light on their end. I don't want to see Smith's career be destroyed, I simply want them to be fair.

A good example is the Plaxico Burress situation. If you want to talk about intent, Burress never intended to hurt anyone any more or any less than Aldon Smith did. The New York Giants suspended Burress for 4 games, the balance of that particular season, one day after he was charged and way before he came to trial. He was later found guilty of violating 2 felony weapons laws and his sentence caused him to miss two full seasons, virtually wiping out the rest of his career. I don't see a whole lot of difference in the laws Burress broke vs. the laws that Smith broke. As a matter of fact, Smith has Burress beat 3-2 in the commission of felony gun crimes, and that's without considering the DUI and the airport incident. I don't see advocating an 8 game suspension as being over the top.

[NorthHawk]

The Airport incident is a non factor as they have decided to not press charges on that act of stupidity.

[RiverDog]

The Airport incident is a non factor as they have decided to not press charges on that act of stupidity.

They decided not to file file felony charges. His case has been referred to the DA for misdemeanor consideration.

The count is 3 felony weapons charges, 2 misdemeanor DUI's, and a possible misdemeanor charge for the airport incident. But I'm sure Futureite will try to spin it to make it sound like he was arrested for spitting on the sidewalk.

[Futureite]

The Airport incident is a non factor as they have decided to not press charges on that act of stupidity.

They decided not to file file felony charges. His case has been referred to the DA for misdemeanor consideration.

The count is 3 felony weapons charges, 2 misdemeanor DUI's, and a possible misdemeanor charge for the airport incident. But I'm sure Futureite will try to spin it to make it sound like he was arrested for spitting on the sidewalk.

These are golden moments, because they provide me with the opprtunity to refute the accusations that come around 2 or 3 times/yr wherein I "spin", "lie" or intentionally misstate facts. Here is what I have posted:

(1) My guess was 0-3 months time in prison.

(2) 8 game suspension by the NFL.

Premised upon:

(3) Past violent crimes which the NFL punished via a yr suspension (Stallworth, Vick). 5 games voluntarily sat + 8 games = 13 . I actually guessed 3 games less than the NFL issued for acts that resulted in torture or death.

(4) Like it or not, you cannot punish someone for a crime that they did not commit or intend to commit. If you plot to kill someone, that is a crime. If you purchase a weapon pursuant to a plan to commit a crime - and the government can prove it - that is a crime.

f I am not mistaken, the potential sentence IS 0-3.5 yrs for the possession conviction. Aldon will be punished by the legal authorities based upon what is allowable for THAT crime, and clearly, the NFL will issue a suspension based upon how it has handled similar issues in the past (Lynch, for example). What is the problem??

So as you can see, clearly I am spinning, twisting and misstating. Every single thing that I have posted here ia based not only upon what is allowable by the law, but the punishment issued by the NFL in comparable circumstances. I am also weighing the facts and circumstances, not simply blindly citing the offense. I no clue - none - how anything I've posted could be interpreted as spin; other than the fact that I am a Niner fan .

[RiverDog]

So dog fighting is considered a violent crime? I don't know how the law defines violent crimes, but although I personally find dog fighting morally repugnant and rightfully unlawful, I don't view it in the same context as the types of crimes Aaron Hernandez is accused of committing. I'm also uncertain about your considering Stallworth's crime violent. He was certainly negligent and deserved every minute of his sentence, but as you keep playing the intent card to defend Smith, so, too, can one play it in Stallworth's defense. Stallworth didn't intend to kill that pedestrian anymore than Smith didn't intend to harm anyone when he fired off some rounds from his weapon. Same goes for Plaxico Burress. Who did he intend to hurt? He still drew a stiff jail sentence, missed two full seasons, and had his career destroyed. Would you like to suggest that Smith be punished the same as Burress? You have to admit that they are very similar crimes.

You really need to cease with your use of Smith's lack of intent to rationalize his acts.

It turns out that Smith won't be charged for a misdemeanor crime for the airport incident, although they did reserve the right to charge him for up to one year after the incident. It's hard to say how the incident will play with Goodell, though. He certainly doesn't require that a player be convicted of a crime in order to judge him in violation of the code of conduct. I suppose some of it would depend if the Commish felt that Smith was under the influence at the time, which if true would be an indication that he still has yet to tame the demons within him and might warrant stronger disciplinary action. It's not a no-never-mind.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11162 ... lax-threat

[c_hawkbob]

So violence to animals is not really violence?

[RiverDog]

So violence to animals is not really violence?

Not in the same sense as violence done to human beings.

[NorthHawk]

Societal pressure has an impact on every case.
It shouldn't, but it does.
It also influences how the NFL metes out their own brand of justice.

In Smith's case, there isn't much outrage in the community. We've become accustomed to people doing stupid things and even murder to some degree.
It's just the way it is these days.

[Anthony]

Whats to argue he is a Niner and will get away with the least they can do to him. The Niners are one of the main NFL franchises so the NFL will take care of them. If he was on Detroit he would be out a year. Its sad but its true. The only saving grace is he will do something stupid again and eventually the NFL will have no choice but to handle it right. If it were up to me, Niner, Hawk, bench player or superstar with everything he has done, it would be 1 year. However it is not up to me, it is up to the politically biased NFL.

[RiverDog]

Societal pressure has an impact on every case.
It shouldn't, but it does.
It also influences how the NFL metes out their own brand of justice.

In Smith's case, there isn't much outrage in the community. We've become accustomed to people doing stupid things and even murder to some degree.
It's just the way it is these days.

You make a good point, and what you say may very well be true. But as I said, I don't have to like it.

[Futureite]

On the subject of special treatment, a man in SF was recently hit and killed by a bicyclist who sped through several red lights and slammed into a group of pedestrians in a crosswalk. For whatever reason, the bicyclist posted a video of the event Facebook afterwards.

The bicyclist was not sentnced to any time in prison. 3 yrs probation and 1,000 hrs of community service for FELONY manslaughter. He is not a celebrity.

[RiverDog]

On the subject of special treatment, a man in SF was recently hit and killed by a bicyclist who sped through several red lights and slammed into a group of pedestrians in a crosswalk. For whatever reason, the bicyclist posted a video of the event Facebook afterwards.

The bicyclist was not sentnced to any time in prison. 3 yrs probation and 1,000 hrs of community service for FELONY manslaughter. He is not a celebrity.

So what's your point? Two wrongs make a right?

[Futureite]

On the subject of special treatment, a man in SF was recently hit and killed by a bicyclist who sped through several red lights and slammed into a group of pedestrians in a crosswalk. For whatever reason, the bicyclist posted a video of the event Facebook afterwards.

The bicyclist was not sentnced to any time in prison. 3 yrs probation and 1,000 hrs of community service for FELONY manslaughter. He is not a celebrity.

So what's your point? Two wrongs make a right?

The point is, the potential suspension + criminal punishment is not out of line with what the NFL has done in the past snd how the legal system handles ordinary people that commit a crime. It all boils down to intent. Lol how many different ways can I say and support it with examples? There is no special treatment going on.

If your point is life isn't fair, I totally agree.

[RiverDog]

On the subject of special treatment, a man in SF was recently hit and killed by a bicyclist who sped through several red lights and slammed into a group of pedestrians in a crosswalk. For whatever reason, the bicyclist posted a video of the event Facebook afterwards.

The bicyclist was not sentnced to any time in prison. 3 yrs probation and 1,000 hrs of community service for FELONY manslaughter. He is not a celebrity.

So what's your point? Two wrongs make a right?

The point is, the potential suspension + criminal punishment is not out of line with what the NFL has done in the past snd how the legal system handles ordinary people that commit a crime. It all boils down to intent. Lol how many different ways can I say and support it with examples? There is no special treatment going on.

If your point is life isn't fair, I totally agree.

I was not attempting to make a point. I still don't see the correlation between a rabid bicyclist, Facebook, and Aldon Smith's situation. There are very few apparent similarities in your comparison.

[HumanCockroach]

http://m.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/4 ... -ca/nf5Hw/

was surprised to find out he was also arrested for pot possession but the San Jose chose not to add those charges, as well as him switching his licence plates on his truck ( assuming to distance himself, but who knows) according to the article he is guilty, and could face up to four years and four months in prison.

[RiverDog]

http://m.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/49ers-aldon-smith-pleads-no-contest-weapons-dui-ca/nf5Hw/

was surprised to find out he was also arrested for pot possession but the San Jose chose not to add those charges, as well as him switching his licence plates on his truck ( assuming to distance himself, but who knows) according to the article he is guilty, and could face up to four years and four months in prison.

I think the pot possession was discovered in one of the DUI busts. I hadn't heard about the switching of the license plates, either. That's a long list, isn't it? That's where Futureite is missing the boat, comparing Smith to a rabid bicyclist. This guy has had a steady progression of bad things happen to him for quite some time, things he hasn't faced any kind of discipline from the league for (Future's trying to count Smith's self imposed rehab as 'discipline'...lol.). I haven't seen this many run-ins with the law since PacMan Jones.

[HumanCockroach]

Yeah, I've brought him up before as quite a bit of PAC Mans stuff was never brought to court or had any charges filed, also mentioned Rothlisberger garnering a suspension for a no charge "suspicious" incident and a motorcycle accident that I believe received four games ( though it might have been three I'm not entirely sure) plenty of incidences of players receiving suspensions for issues that just made the "league look bad" without a single police charge being filed, which is why personally I feel like should Smith garner a tap on the wrist by not only the judicial system, but the league as well, it shows an inconsistent punishment system by the league.

multiple players have received MORE severe suspensions for LESSER infractions, period. If attempting to switch plates doesn't show "intent", and purchasing illegal firearms knowing full well they aren't allowed in the state you live in, and then allowing said firearms to be shot over a crowd of people to disperse them doesn't show "intent" to circumvent the law, I simply don't know what to tell Future, other than he must have missed what "intent" means somewhere along the way.

Not sure what the law is down in Cali, but I know in Washington, if I get drunk, and drive it through a mall killing a couple folks, I'ld be spending plenty of time getting to know to unique individuals in Walla Walla, with or without intent to do anyone harm, getting LUCKY shouldn't be the end all be all to whether or not the guy is FORCED to get professional help IMHO. Either the judge, or the League should help him get his life under control or both, before he kills someone, and no, IMHO that is NOT an exaggeration

[RiverDog]

Yeah, I've brought him up before as quite a bit of PAC Mans stuff was never brought to court or had any charges filed, also mentioned Rothlisberger garnering a suspension for a no charge "suspicious" incident and a motorcycle accident that I believe received four games ( though it might have been three I'm not entirely sure) plenty of incidences of players receiving suspensions for issues that just made the "league look bad" without a single police charge being filed, which is why personally I feel like should Smith garner a tap on the wrist by not only the judicial system, but the league as well, it shows an inconsistent punishment system by the league.

multiple players have received MORE severe suspensions for LESSER infractions, period. If attempting to switch plates doesn't show "intent", and purchasing illegal firearms knowing full well they aren't allowed in the state you live in, and then allowing said firearms to be shot over a crowd of people to disperse them doesn't show "intent" to circumvent the law, I simply don't know what to tell Future, other than he must have missed what "intent" means somewhere along the way.

Not sure what the law is down in Cali, but I know in Washington, if I get drunk, and drive it through a mall killing a couple folks, I'ld be spending plenty of time getting to know to unique individuals in Walla Walla, with or without intent to do anyone harm, getting LUCKY shouldn't be the end all be all to whether or not the guy is FORCED to get professional help IMHO. Either the judge, or the League should help him get his life under control or both, before he kills someone, and no, IMHO that is NOT an exaggeration

Let's not forget about Tank Johnson, either.

On April 30, 2007, Johnson pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor weapons charge as part of an arrangement with prosecutors that kept him from serving additional jail time. He was sentenced to 45 days in jail, which was served concurrently with a four-month sentence he was already serving in the Cook County Jail for violating his probation; to donate $2,500 to the Gurnee Police Department and $2,500 to the Gurnee Exchange Club's child abuse prevention program.[23] While he was in jail, many of his teammates and coaches, including Brian Urlacher, Rex Grossman, and Lovie Smith visited Johnson.[24] His release from jail on May 13, 2007 ended his legal problems from the December 2006 weapons incident.[25] The league ultimately suspended Johnson for half of the regular season on June 4, 2007.

Like I said before, anything less than an 8 game suspension will be a travesty.

FYI Worthlessburger's suspension didn't have anything to do with his motorcycle accident. His suspension occured 4 years afterwards. Big Ben was suspended for 6 games for violating the league's personal conduct policy, in particular, unproven allegations involving sexual assault in two seperate incidents. He was the first player suspended by Goodell that wasn't arrested or charged with any crime. But it is a good example of another incident of a player suspended under the code of conduct policy that we can look to in comparing the league's past practices and the 2-4 game suspension for Smith that was bantied about.

[HumanCockroach]

Huh, I thought there was a second accident that occurred. Eh, wasn't paying particular attention to Rothlisberger to be honest.

[kalibane]

As I remember it Goodell did use the Motorcycle incident in his criteria as evidence of a pattern of negative behavior in order to justify the suspension.

[RiverDog]

As I remember it Goodell did use the Motorcycle incident in his criteria as evidence of a pattern of negative behavior in order to justify the suspension.

The only thing Worthlessburger got cited for in the motorcycle accident was operating it without a license. I'm not sure if it was the lack of an operator's or vehicle license he got cited for, but in any event, I don't remember that incident being mentioned by the Commish as part of what drew his wrath. But I do remember the Steeler's management being really pissed at Big Ben as his careless behavior cost the team and resulted in his missing a number of games, and if memory serves, I don't think they paid him while he was out.

But regardless, it's a moot point. I was merely trying to set the record straight. The real point was that Worthlessburger was disciplined without being arrested for or convicted of any crime.

[HumanCockroach]

The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person,' " Goodell stated in his letter to Roethlisberger.

"As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing [or facilitating the purchase of] alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

that sums it up, now i'll wait to see if Goodall believes what he says, or lets Smith skate...

[NorthHawk]

I think the difference is with Roethlesberger there was community outrage (for a lack of a better term) or at least continuing headlines, but with Smith, it's almost a forgotten story.

[RiverDog]

I think the difference is with Roethlesberger there was community outrage (for a lack of a better term) or at least continuing headlines, but with Smith, it's almost a forgotten story.

Boy, I hope that's not the case, North Hawk. The punishment should fit the crime, and be in line with similar transgressions that they've handed down discipline for in the past. "Community outrage" should not enter into it one way or another.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Goodell put more weight on code of conduct violations that had the potential to offend women's groups when one considers the effort the NFL is putting into catering to the female audience as an untapped source of revenue. I sure hope he's not playing politics with the code of conduct policy, but it is a possibility.

[kalibane]

I do believe that to be the case Riv. There was enough going on to wash Aldon Smith out of the news cycle. Contrast it to what's happening with Josh Gordon right now. People are calling for Gordon to be released "for his own good" that he needs major intervention and long term treatment etc. etc. because there is nothing else to talk about.

In my opinion Aldon Smith's string of incidents are more disturbing than Gordon's but it's old news so it's like meh... a couple games will handle it.

[RiverDog]

I do believe that to be the case Riv. There was enough going on to wash Aldon Smith out of the news cycle. Contrast it to what's happening with Josh Gordon right now. People are calling for Gordon to be released "for his own good" that he needs major intervention and long term treatment etc. etc. because there is nothing else to talk about.

In my opinion Aldon Smith's string of incidents are more disturbing than Gordon's but it's old news so it's like meh... a couple games will handle it.

I don't doubt what you and North Hawk are saying. It's just that it would be very disappointing if what you are saying turns out to be true. It would be like giving me a life sentence if I killed a Senator's son and only a few months if I killed a homeless person.

[kalibane]

You know what though Riv? What you just laid out in terms of sentencing is really not all that far off from what happens in real life. A few months is a pretty big exaggeration but killing a homeless person very often results in a less harsh sentence than killing someone who is prominent in society.