Ndamukong Suh: Intentional or Not?

[RiverDog]

I only saw a brief clip of him stepping on Rodgers leg. I'm sure I'll be treated to many more replays and analysis this week, but the one I saw it didn't look real clear to me that it was intentional, but considering this guy's past, he definitely has not earned the benefit of the doubt.

What's your take? Was it or wasn't it intentional, and if it was intentional, what should/will the consequences be?

[savvyman]

Intentional - See Suh lift his other foot off the ground (transferring all his weight to the one remaining foot) while he stepped on Rodgers Calf.






Note how the first foot finds Rodgers ankle just slightly before the second foot finds his ankle completely - notice how he steps off Rodgers ankle with a little push on the ankle.

Very sneaky manuver by a player who obviously with the skill in which he delivered this has done this type of behavior many times.

[c_hawkbob]

No question it was intentional.

I think he should be suspended for the playoffs as a safety measure for all these high dollar QB's!

[mykc14]

Great breakdown, Savy. There is no doubt afterwatching that and reading your breakdown that it was in-fact, intentional. Let's see what the league does with this one. It's not his or his team's first offense. I think he should be suspended and the team fined.

[burrrton]

What is it with the Lions and pulling sht like this??

[PasadenaHawk]

The guy is a p.o.s. should be thrown out of the league.

[Hawktawk]

There is something wrong with Suh, some sort of disorder. The game is violent enough without this POS intentionally hurting people. And its sadistic stuff, cut blocking and injuring other players, kick a guy in the nutz. stomp players, cleat them, driving them in to the turf. He ought to be suspended. He's done too much other crud to deserve the benefit of the doubt. We will see if Goody Two shoes has the stones to hand down a fitting punishment.

[NorthHawk]

Intentional.
Because of his history, I would suspend him until next year.

[Hawkstar]

Seems more opportunistic - Like he legitimately backed into Rodgers, then exploited the opportunity to inflict as much pain as possible. I agree that his days in the NFL should be over. As stated, it's to violent of a game to begin with to have players like Suh intentionally trying to injure players.

[kalibane]

definitely intentional. I think the first step was an accident but after he realized he was stepping on someone he took the other step back on purpose.

[Steady_Hawk]

Absolutely intentional.

I would create a 3 category injury panel.

1. if the injury was clearly unintentional no reprimands are made.
2. If the injury is questionable then the player is suspended for a minimum of one game or as long as the player injured misses games.
3. If the injury is obviously intentional it should be a season ending reprimand with anger management courses required for NFL re-entry.

There is no room for this garbage in this league. There needs to be serious consequences for these actions in order to stop them from happening in the first place IMO.

[Futureite]

The NFL needs to create a rule whereby they can punish things like this that happen in the flow of the game but are clearly the continuation of a nonfootball act which is intended to cause substantial injury. This sort of thing is happening far too often with Suh. It's almost as though he has found a loophole in the rules and is exploiting it for all it's worth.

[mykc14]

Just read on ESPN that he is suspended 1 game. This doesn't make much sense to me. If they are willing to suspend him for 1 game they are saying that he was guilty of trying to hurt another player. This is not the first time he has done this. How is this suspension not longer?

[kalibane]

Just read on ESPN that he is suspended 1 game. This doesn't make much sense to me. If they are willing to suspend him for 1 game they are saying that he was guilty of trying to hurt another player. This is not the first time he has done this. How is this suspension not longer?

Are you seriously asking for disciplinary consistency from Roger Goodell?

[Hawktawk]

[quote="kalibaneAre you seriously asking for disciplinary consistency from Roger Goodell?

Yeah no kidding. Its clear as mud like usual with Roger.

IMO its a season ending suspension. Without that big boy clogging the middle Dallas is going to have their way.

[Zorn76]

Ndamukong Suh is a joke, and so was the 1 game suspension handed down by the league.

[monkey]

What is it with the Lions and pulling sht like this??

They are a dirty team, period.
Having said that...I'm just not sure I am seeing intent there...I'm not saying he should be given ANY benefit of the doubt, he shouldn't he hasn't earned ANY....just not sure I am seeing what you guys are saying is there...maybe but....wouldn't stand up in a court of law.

Still Suh is a dirty player, the Lions are a dirty bunch of cheats who have been proven to intentionally try to injure players. So as far as I am concerned, if he gets suspended, GOOD!

I personally think when intent is proven, then there should be an immediate, irrevocable, LIFETIME ban for. (And no that is NOT hyperbole, I am being 100% serious as a heart attack!!) Lifetime ban for anyone proven to be trying to injure. That would stop that crap from happening!

[HumanCockroach]

Looked intentional to me, and obviously the league as well, only "surprise" in this instance for me, is that he got off with a single game suspension, as opposed to four or six. If for no other reason than Rodgers is in the "special" don't breathe on them group ( along with Brady, Brees, P.Manning and sometimes Romo), Suh has a pretty clear history, and no one can convince me that after partially stepping on him, he needed to step back onto his injured calf, and pick up his other foot, no one. Again I do believe he does these things on the spur of the moment with the intent of injuring a player. Much like the groin kick, or arm stomp, it's what he does.

[kalibane]

They are a dirty team, period.
Having said that...I'm just not sure I am seeing intent there...I'm not saying he should be given ANY benefit of the doubt, he shouldn't he hasn't earned ANY....just not sure I am seeing what you guys are saying is there...maybe but....wouldn't stand up in a court of law.

I'm the type of guy who's inclined to give benefit of the doubt. But, what I'm seeing is Suh backpeddeling and accidentally steps on Rodgers with one foot but then once he realized he was on Rodgers he took another step back onto him with the other foot and put all his weight on that second foot for no good reason.

When you take a step and you accidentally land on something that is on a different plane than the ground you were expecting you instinctively brace yourself to balance and prevent falling. You don't make your situation more precarious by lifting the foot that is firmly on the ground. The way it played out tells me he expected to land on what he landed on (namely a body part). I doubt he knew it was Rodger's injured calf, but I think he knew it was Rodgers and he was trying to just get that little extra shot.

[Hawktawk]

I just heard Bill Polian on NFL network whining about the suspension because it "affects the competitive balance" and "penalizes the entire team". He said the playoff suspension didn't fit the "Rozelle Model" whatever the F that is. Polian also quoted Baghdad Mike Pierra as saying it was not a fine able or suspend able offense because clear intent could not be proven since his back was to the player he stepped on.

LOL ask Schaub which way Suh was looking when he kicked him in the junk. Listening to all these good old boy hacks protect their cronies its not surprising the league has gotten in such a mess with other disciplinary issues

[Zorn76]

Defending Suh is laughable.
He lost any benefit of the doubt a couple years ago concerning crap like this.
It's his own fault he's being suspended, and the price he's paying is minimal.

I didn't see/hear Bill Polian's opinion, but if that's the angle he chose to take then it's garbage.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="Zorn76"]Defending Suh is laughable.
He lost any benefit of the doubt a couple years ago concerning crap like this.
It's his own fault he's being suspended, and the price he's paying is minimal.

I didn't see/hear Bill Polian's opinion, but if that's the angle he chose to take then it's garbage.[/quote

Yeah Zorn that is exactly what Polian said. He addressed Suh's past history by saying Suh "had a clean year" this past season and shouldn't be penalized for his past fouls in this situation..Sorry Bill, when you cleat people and kick them in the nuts its a zero tolerance policy from then on. As for Pierra's opinion I haven't given 1 bit of credibility to anything he has said since he attempted to whitewash SB XL.Mike Carey who I respect a lot more said it was clearly roughing the passer by stepping on him the second time and putting all his weight on the leg. It is incredible that some will defend the indefensible.

[Hawktawk]

So Suh's suspension has been lifted and replaced with a 70 thousand dollar fine which Suh can use as toilet paper with the payday he has coming. Its genius by Goodell from a bottom line standpoint. The evil Suh will be on the field driving up the ratings even higher.

But hey Roger STFU about safety OK? You are fining guys 15/20 grand and punishing their teams 15 yards for legal hits that look scary. And this serial dirty player can put 300 lbs on one leg in cleats on the likely MVP's already injured calf and suit up next weekend. Your credibility is 0. What a frigging joke. I hope the Lions beat the Cowboys so Seattle can stuff them. And if Suh gets his knee blown out by a cut block somewhere along the way...Oh well. Live by the sword die by the sword...

[Oly]

So Suh's suspension has been lifted and replaced with a 70 thousand dollar fine which Suh can use as toilet paper with the payday he has coming. Its genius by Goodell from a bottom line standpoint. The evil Suh will be on the field driving up the ratings even higher.

But hey Roger STFU about safety OK? You are fining guys 15/20 grand and punishing their teams 15 yards for legal hits that look scary. And this serial dirty player can put 300 lbs on one leg in cleats on the likely MVP's already injured calf and suit up next weekend. Your credibility is 0. What a frigging joke. I hope the Lions beat the Cowboys so Seattle can stuff them. And if Suh gets his knee blown out by a cut block somewhere along the way...Oh well. Live by the sword die by the sword...

I agree about Suh's stomp being worse that many hits that get fined, but it was a mediator paid 50/50 by the league and the player's union that lifted the appeal. Roger wasn't behind this one. There is enough hypocrisy and blame to be laid at his as it is, though, so no need to put this on him.

[Agent 86]

So Suh's suspension has been lifted and replaced with a 70 thousand dollar fine which Suh can use as toilet paper with the payday he has coming. Its genius by Goodell from a bottom line standpoint. The evil Suh will be on the field driving up the ratings even higher.

But hey Roger STFU about safety OK? You are fining guys 15/20 grand and punishing their teams 15 yards for legal hits that look scary. And this serial dirty player can put 300 lbs on one leg in cleats on the likely MVP's already injured calf and suit up next weekend. Your credibility is 0. What a frigging joke. I hope the Lions beat the Cowboys so Seattle can stuff them. And if Suh gets his knee blown out by a cut block somewhere along the way...Oh well. Live by the sword die by the sword...

So you say this Suh character stepped on the potential MVP's ankle....twice?....so for punishment will it be:

1. Would you believe suspended for the duration of the playoffs?
2. Um, would you accept a 2 game suspension that carries into the regular season next year if need be?
3. Oh, I see, well, would you take a 1 game suspension then?
4. Er, would you settle for a $70 thousand dollar fine?


OK, OK, I just figured out how to Gravatar and wanted to check mine out....sorry 'bout that Chief......

[Tepet]

6 game suspension at the least!

[Hawktawk]

Suh stepped on the already injured left calf of an NFL superstar twice. The first one was understandable. The second was clearly a dirty cheap shot from a 310 pound punk.The $70 thousand dollar fine speaks for itself. He did it but he gets to play. This guy has been fined a half million dollars since entering the league. A suspension was warranted.I dont want to hear about punishing the whole team when they have enabled this filthy player his entire career.Don't tell me the commissioner doesn't have the horsepower to influence this decision.This is hypocrisy at the highest level of the NFL.

[burrrton]

I go back and forth.

I'm not generally one to cut anyone slack for intentional actions for which they know the consequences, but in this case, I think a fine vs suspension might be more appropriate.

1. It wasn't that aggressive an action. Yes it was clearly intentional, but there wasn't a big chance of serious harm (more a pinch vs a blow- it's probably gonna hurt, but even a 300# brute like Suh isn't going to snap a tibia in half).

2. Unless they want to throw their rules out the window (the NFLPA would sht the bed), he had a "clean slate" (I'll link the twitter feed that detailed how/why that's so), so this incident has to be considered outside of prior behavior. It wasn't, I don't think, but it's at least defensible in that context.

Overall it seems just.

[edit- changed "didn't" to "wasn't" in last para.]

[mykc14]

I go back and forth.

I'm not generally one to cut anyone slack for intentional actions for which they know the consequences, but in this case, I think a fine vs suspension might be more appropriate.

1. It wasn't that aggressive an action. Yes it was clearly intentional, but there wasn't a big chance of serious harm (more a pinch vs a blow- it's probably gonna hurt, but even a 300# brute like Suh isn't going to snap a tibia in half).

2. Unless they want to throw their rules out the window (the NFLPA would sht the bed), he had a "clean slate" (I'll link the twitter feed that detailed how/why that's so), so this incident has to be considered outside of prior behavior. It wasn't, I don't think, but it's at least defensible in that context.

Overall it seems just.

[edit- changed "didn't" to "wasn't" in last para.]

As to #1: IMO it doesn't matter who serious it could have been its all about intent and his intent was to hurt somebody.

#2: I really dislike this, not from you but from the league. Yeah technically he had a clean sheet (this was actually his first game with this label as it had been 32 games since his last offense) but the reality is he did the same thing last year and should have been suspended then but he was simply given a $100,000 fine. On an INT return he 'blocked' an OL, who was about 5 yards behind the play, taking him out at the knee (I wish you could see a GIF of that, but I don't have one). He should have been suspended then, which would mean he wouldn't have had a clean sheet for this offense. Also, he will still have this 'clean sheet' in the future because this also technically doesn't count. The league is really screwing this up, IMO.

[mykc14]

So Suh's suspension has been lifted and replaced with a 70 thousand dollar fine which Suh can use as toilet paper with the payday he has coming. Its genius by Goodell from a bottom line standpoint. The evil Suh will be on the field driving up the ratings even higher.

But hey Roger STFU about safety OK? You are fining guys 15/20 grand and punishing their teams 15 yards for legal hits that look scary. And this serial dirty player can put 300 lbs on one leg in cleats on the likely MVP's already injured calf and suit up next weekend. Your credibility is 0. What a frigging joke. I hope the Lions beat the Cowboys so Seattle can stuff them. And if Suh gets his knee blown out by a cut block somewhere along the way...Oh well. Live by the sword die by the sword...

I just don't understand this at all. The arbitor decides he doesn't see enough evidence to determine that Suh did this on purpose yet he is still fined $70,000. How does that work? I can't prove that you did this but everybody knows you did it so no suspension but you do get a fine. I know the NFL doesn't have to be consistent in anyway, but this is the type of stuff that really hurts the games credibility. I also understand that its the Players Union's job to protect the individual players in these situations but they are doing it at the expense of the rest of the players safety. Doesn't make sense and if I were a player I wouldn't like this ruling (unless I were a Lion, maybe) because it sets a precident where a player can clearly attempt to injury another player but as long as they are a good enough actor they can basically get away with it.

[RiverDog]

I just don't understand this at all. The arbitor decides he doesn't see enough evidence to determine that Suh did this on purpose yet he is still fined $70,000. How does that work? I can't prove that you did this but everybody knows you did it so no suspension but you do get a fine. I know the NFL doesn't have to be consistent in anyway, but this is the type of stuff that really hurts the games credibility. I also understand that its the Players Union's job to protect the individual players in these situations but they are doing it at the expense of the rest of the players safety. Doesn't make sense and if I were a player I wouldn't like this ruling (unless I were a Lion, maybe) because it sets a precident where a player can clearly attempt to injury another player but as long as they are a good enough actor they can basically get away with it.

Yea, that caught my eye, too. Sounds like a decision by some committee.

I can understand overturning the suspension as it punishes his team as much as it does Suh, but the fine is chicken scratch compared to what he makes. Beast gets 100K for not talking to the media and Suh gets 70k for a physical act? In who's world does that balance?

[mykc14]

So apparently his defense was that his feet were too numb from the cold to tell the difference between the ground and Rodger's leg. He should get a games suspension for wasting the leagues time with that excuse. Somebody should try this excuse in the real world, "uh, sorry officer but my hands were too numb to tell that I was touching her boob."

[RiverDog]

So apparently his defense was that his feet were too numb from the cold to tell the difference between the ground and Rodger's leg. He should get a games suspension for wasting the leagues time with that excuse. Somebody should try this excuse in the real world, "uh, sorry officer but my hands were too numb to tell that I was touching her boob."

I heard that, too. It's incredible that anyone would be gullible enough to buy that excuse. IMO it's his skull that's numb, not his feet.

[Hawk Sista]

I can't understand how the committee could not consider his past transgressions for they clearly demonstrate a willingness to behave like a Neanderthal (my apologies to any Neanderthals who might be reading).

I was gonna make the point that Riv made. Beast gets 100k fine for being shy and numbfeet gets 70k for trying to hurt someone intentionally. SMDH

[Hawktawk]

I can't understand how the committee could not consider his past transgressions for they clearly demonstrate a willingness to behave like a Neanderthal (my apologies to any Neanderthals who might be reading).

I was gonna make the point that Riv made. Beast gets 100k fine for being shy and numbfeet gets 70k for trying to hurt someone intentionally. SMDH

No kidding Sis! That's about the best comment I have heard on this subject. Talk about ready fire aim. The NFL code of conduct policy is such a cluster.

[burrrton]

As to #1: IMO it doesn't matter who serious it could have been its all about intent and his intent was to hurt somebody.

Well, we don't really disagree, but I guess I'd point out a subtle difference between "hurt" and "injure". He was certainly trying to cause a little pain, but there was little chance of injury.

I know that's splitting hairs a bit, but I think it matters here.

[Zorn76]

It's disappointing that Suh won his suspension, IMO, but it is what it is.

Apparently, since it's been 32 games since his last disciplinary action - 2 full seasons worth of games - his past history did not factor into the appeal decision. The last two paragraphs explain...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/st ... -numb-cold

And, geez, the numb feet thing is a crock of s***, lol. I mean, honestly, how did anybody keep a straight face when they heard that. Either way, I doubt very much the Lions win this game, but it does help their chances.

[burrrton]

Just to be clear, too: Suh lost his appeal.

The arbitrator didn't buy his excuse at all- he just didn't think the punishment was appropriate.

[Bird Droppings]

"He did the monster mash ...
It caught on in a flash" ... the flash being the vast media coverage and more attention for THE LEAGUE.

It just harkens back to the line "there is really no bad publicity, for it is publicity, and that is the idea".

Remember, Shack-Ups, it was only a few short months ago that Mr. Suh, with his Portland digs, pointed out he would love to play for the Seahawks.

And, next year, he is a free agent.

Massage you calf on this one:

Seattle wants a big DL to jam things up at the line, right???

My Lawd, Aristotle, who would dream the Seahawks would ever ....???

zoom

[burrrton]

I know we're being wily about our cap strategy, but would be be able to swing the $16M/year it's going to take to land Suh after signing Wags and RW??