Another First for RW

[Anthony]

So it appears Rw is the First QB to be in the top 16 in both passing yards(15th) and rushing yards(16th). Also first QB to be in top 20 in passing(16th) and rushing TDs(17th). Also first QB to be top 10 in both passing YPA(8th) and Rushing YPA(1st).

He makes up a huge chunk of our offense, he makes up 72% of the yards. 68% of tds To compare

Luck makes up 74% of his teams yards, but its all about Luck there. Now he does make up 78% of the tds.
Manning makes up 72% of his teams yards, and 67% of his teams tds
Brady makes up 71% of his teams yards, and 67% of their TDs
Rodgers make up 73% of his teams yards, and 71% of their TDs

What I find interesting is despite all these QBs having better olines and WRs and in pass happy Offenses they do not make up a significantly more % of their teams yards and tds than Rw.

[RiverDog]

So it appears Rw is the First QB to be in the top 16 in both passing yards(15th) and rushing yards(16th). Also first QB to be in top 20 in passing(16th) and rushing TDs(17th). Also first QB to be top 10 in both passing YPA(8th) and Rushing YPA(1st).

He makes up a huge chunk of our offense, he makes up 72% of the yards. 68% of tds To compare

Luck makes up 74% of his teams yards, but its all about Luck there. Now he does make up 78% of the tds.
Manning makes up 72% of his teams yards, and 67% of his teams tds
Brady makes up 71% of his teams yards, and 67% of their TDs
Rodgers make up 73% of his teams yards, and 71% of their TDs

What I find interesting is despite all these QBs having better olines and WRs and in pass happy Offenses they do not make up a significantly more % of their teams yards and tds than Rw.

With 32 teams in the league, I'm not sure if being in the top 16 or the top 20 in anything is an achievement that would cause a person to walk around touching their elbows behind their backs over.

[c_hawkbob]

Then you'd think it woulda happened before eh?

[Hawktown]

Then you'd think it woulda happened before eh?

yeah.... maybe

[RiverDog]

Then you'd think it woulda happened before eh?

IMO it's nothing more than the answer to a trivia question. It's an obscure statistical oddity that only a person with too much time on their hands would come up with. I can assure you that no one with an access to a bully pulpit that's promoting Russell's candidacy for MVP will bring up his being in the top 16 or top 20 in any statistical category regardless of its uniqueness as a reason to vote for him.

Besides, Russell has more impressive feathers in his cap, such as his W/L record since entering the league and his soon-to-be second straight Lombardi.

[c_hawkbob]

I think understanding and appreciating how greatness is achieved is every bit as important as just recognizing it.

[Anthony]

IMO it's nothing more than the answer to a trivia question. It's an obscure statistical oddity that only a person with too much time on their hands would come up with. I can assure you that no one with an access to a bully pulpit that's promoting Russell's candidacy for MVP will bring up his being in the top 16 or top 20 in any statistical category regardless of its uniqueness as a reason to vote for him.

Besides, Russell has more impressive feathers in his cap, such as his W/L record since entering the league and his soon-to-be second straight Lombardi.

Considering they mentioned it on NFL network yeah its a bigger deal than you think.

[RiverDog]

Considering they mentioned it on NFL network yeah its a bigger deal than you think.

Perhaps it's a big deal to you, but it doesn't float my boat. Russell's done a lot of things that have impressed the hell out of me, but being ranked #16 and #20 in something isn't one of them.

[Anthony]

Perhaps it's a big deal to you, but it doesn't float my boat. Russell's done a lot of things that have impressed the hell out of me, but being ranked #16 and #20 in something isn't one of them.

Okay I guess being the only player in NFL history to do that does not float your boat then I feel for you.

[RiverDog]

Okay I guess being the only player in NFL history to do that does not float your boat then I feel for you.

There are tons of record breaking performances out there in just this season alone. Some are impressive, some not so impressive. Earlier this season, Ben Worthlessburger became the first quarterback to throw 6 TD passes in two consecutive games. JJ Watt became the first player ever to record 20 sacks in two consecutive seasons. Peyton Manning set a record of 15 consecutive games with 2 or more TD passes and set a career record of 530 TD passes. Phillip Rivers set a record of 5 consecutive games with a passer rating of 120.0 or better. Tom Brady won his record 12th divisional title as a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers became the only player to have a QB rating of 100+ for 6 consecutive seasons. Andrew Luck set an NFL record for the most passing yards in his first three seasons. Drew Brees extended his streak of 7 seasons with 30+ TD passes. And just so you don't accuse me of making an anti Russell Wilson response, Russell has 36 regular season wins and 22 home wins in his first 3 years, the most by any QB in the SB era.

Sorry, but your trivial observation ranks way down the list in the "wow" department.

[Anthony]

There are tons of record breaking performances out there in just this season alone. Some are impressive, some not so impressive. Earlier this season, Ben Worthlessburger became the first quarterback to throw 6 TD passes in two consecutive games. JJ Watt became the first player ever to record 20 sacks in two consecutive seasons. Peyton Manning set a record of 15 consecutive games with 2 or more TD passes and set a career record of 530 TD passes. Phillip Rivers set a record of 5 consecutive games with a passer rating of 120.0 or better. Tom Brady won his record 12th divisional title as a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers became the only player to have a QB rating of 100+ for 6 consecutive seasons. Andrew Luck set an NFL record for the most passing yards in his first three seasons. Drew Brees extended his streak of 7 seasons with 30+ TD passes. And just so you don't accuse me of making an anti Russell Wilson response, Russell has 36 regular season wins and 22 home wins in his first 3 years, the most by any QB in the SB era.

Sorry, but your trivial observation ranks way down the list in the "wow" department.

Was not going to accuse you of anything. However it is a really bad state of things when someone on your team does something no one has ever done and you find a way to not only trivialize but be apathetic about it. I hope I never get that way, and always appreciate the accomplishments of people, no mater how big or small they are.

[RiverDog]

However it is a really bad state of things when someone on your team does something no one has ever done and you find a way to not only trivialize but be apathetic about it. I hope I never get that way, and always appreciate the accomplishments of people, no mater how big or small they are.

I never said I didn't care. I said it was trivial. I care about everything Russell Wilson does. It's just that some things he does are more significant than others, and the stat you cited is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I am one hell of a lot more impressed with is W/L record and the XLVIII Lombardi and leading us to two straight HFA's in his first three years than the obscure stat you quoted.

[Anthony]

I never said I didn't care. I said it was trivial. I care about everything Russell Wilson does. It's just that some things he does are more significant than others, and the stat you cited is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I am one hell of a lot more impressed with is W/L record and the XLVIII Lombardi and leading us to two straight HFA's in his first three years than the obscure stat you quoted.

Okay I Can understand but how obscure is it when they mention it on the NFL network. Was the first player to ever throw for over 300 and rush for over 100 obscure also? What about first player in the top 10 in rushing and passing ypa? I guess I am trying to figure out what to you is trivial. To me they are not trivial, it shows he is doing things no one else has ever done and reaffirms how important to this team he is. It proves that a duel threat QB can not only exist in the NFL but dominate.

[HumanCockroach]

I don't know, I think being the first player capable of outperforming starting RB's and QB's in the same season is fairly impressive, yards are yards, scores are scores, what it shows is a player willing to do whatever it takes to win, and more importantly the ability to do it, and do it, effectively. NO QB no matter how talented, no matter how much talent he had around him, could do it, which IMHO is pretty damn impressive. Remeber being enamored with to hard to handle Randle, Wilson makes him look like Ryan Leaf at this point. Plenty of "mobile" QB's with strong arms have come through the NFL and none have done what Wilson has done, no Elway, no Cunningham, no Vick, No RGIII, no Cam, no Tarkenton, no one, nada.

4,000 yards, is 4,000 yards period.

[RiverDog]

Okay I Can understand but how obscure is it when they mention it on the NFL network. Was the first player to ever throw for over 300 and rush for over 100 obscure also? What about first player in the top 10 in rushing and passing ypa? I guess I am trying to figure out what to you is trivial. To me they are not trivial, it shows he is doing things no one else has ever done and reaffirms how important to this team he is. It proves that a duel threat QB can not only exist in the NFL but dominate.

Not everything mentioned on NFL Network is significant. They are a 24/7 news network devoted almost exclusively to covering the NFL. It's like the Weather Channel reporting on the latest storm. They report on a lot of broken records, too. It doesn't mean I have to be impressed.

As far as Russell's 300/100, I would certainly rank it higher than the 16th ranked and 20th ranked stat you quoted earlier, but I'm a lot more impressed with his 36 regular season wins in his first three years, again a record for a modern day quarterback. My point is that there are scores of stats and records being broken every season, in part due to the fact that the league only recently has become stat driven when compared to their baseball and basketball counterparts.

A lot of the stats we think are so telling in today's game, like quarterback sacks and QB ratings, are concoctions created by the stats geeks within the past 3-4 decades. Heck, growing up as a kid, I couldn't tell you what Johnny Unitas's completion percentage was or what the Packer's third down conversion rate was. No one counted how many QB sacks the Fearsome Foursome collected. I can remember one time when they tried to quantify offensive linemen's performance by creating a stat called pancake blocks, but it never caught on. One season, I remember the network broadcasters telling of a stat Steve Largent had accumulated that I thought was pretty impressive, that out of 71 receptions, 67 were for either a first down or a touchdown. Pretty impressive, huh? For some reason, they don't talk about the percentages of catches a receiver makes that go for a first down or TD. It's the only time I've ever heard it mentioned.

I've been following football since the early 60's, so my concept of history tends to go back a little farther than most, so I'm not nearly as fascinated with stats as you appear to be. That's why I said it don't float my boat.

[Anthony]

I don't know, I think being the first player capable of outperforming starting RB's and QB's in the same season is fairly impressive, yards are yards, scores are scores, what it shows is a player willing to do whatever it takes to win, and more importantly the ability to do it, and do it, effectively. NO QB no matter how talented, no matter how much talent he had around him, could do it, which IMHO is pretty damn impressive. Remeber being enamored with to hard to handle Randle, Wilson makes him look like Ryan Leaf at this point. Plenty of "mobile" QB's with strong arms have come through the NFL and none have done what Wilson has done, no Elway, no Cunningham, no Vick, No RGIII, no Cam, no Tarkenton, no one, nada.

4,000 yards, is 4,000 yards period.

Agreed, but some do not see it that way. I guess being the fist and only is not meaningful enough for some.

[RiverDog]

I don't know, I think being the first player capable of outperforming starting RB's and QB's in the same season is fairly impressive, yards are yards, scores are scores, what it shows is a player willing to do whatever it takes to win, and more importantly the ability to do it, and do it, effectively. NO QB no matter how talented, no matter how much talent he had around him, could do it, which IMHO is pretty damn impressive. Remeber being enamored with to hard to handle Randle, Wilson makes him look like Ryan Leaf at this point. Plenty of "mobile" QB's with strong arms have come through the NFL and none have done what Wilson has done, no Elway, no Cunningham, no Vick, No RGIII, no Cam, no Tarkenton, no one, nada.

4,000 yards, is 4,000 yards period.

Apples and oranges. The game was dramatically different when Tarkenton and Cunningham were playing. Neither Tarkenton or Cunningham ran the read option. Running backs were a much bigger part of an offense and you didn't see them coming out on 3rd downs or the running back by committee approach that so many teams are turning to, which tends to hold down individual production. That's why we went clear into the mid 50's before a running back was taken in last year's draft. It's a lot easier to out produce a "starting running back" nowadays then when Tarkenton was playing.

I'm much more impressed with Russell's W/L record since entering the league. With the exception of going from 14 to 16 games in the late 70's, that's one thing that hasn't changed and that can be fairly measured..wins and losses.

[c_hawkbob]

For something you don't care about you sure cant quit defending yourself over it.

[Agent 86]

Apples and oranges. The game was dramatically different when Tarkenton and Cunningham were playing. Neither Tarkenton or Cunningham ran the read option. Running backs were a much bigger part of an offense and you didn't see them coming out on 3rd downs or the running back by committee approach that so many teams are turning to, which tends to hold down individual production. That's why we went clear into the mid 50's before a running back was taken in last year's draft. It's a lot easier to out produce a "starting running back" nowadays then when Tarkenton was playing.

I'm much more impressed with Russell's W/L record since entering the league. With the exception of going from 14 to 16 games in the late 70's, that's one thing that hasn't changed and that can be fairly measured..wins and losses.

LOL.....Riv, keep on truckin man. I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but appreciate the perspective from which you come from.

And most importantly, I don't ever recall you name calling or coming down harshly on anyone in here. That's maybe more impressive than #20 and #16???

You can colour me impressed with almost anything RW3 does that garners media attention to a stat or record he's achieved. I think you are too, just stats like the OP put aren't as high on your list as others.

[burrrton]

It's an evaluation that looks at a rather unique combination of abilities RW has, so of course he'll be 1st/2nd/3rd in history to do it, because he's the 1st/2nd/3rd in history with that combination.

It just cemented that RW has that unique combination of abilities, which I already knew.

This doesn't mean I'm less impressed with the guy and the weapon he is, but when he's a top-10 passer in the league and has the 2nd-most rushing yards in history for a QB, I kinda assume, ya know?

[Hawktawk]

RW's very unique skill set combined with his intelligence and creativity is a huge part of the reason for his WL record. Seattle was developing a fairly salty defense by 2011 but in the days of Whitehurst and Tjack it translated to 7-9.With Russell I feel like we always have a chance. He's patient and careful with the ball but he can explode with his arm or his legs and blow a game open at any moment. He can get knocked around for 60 minutes and still beat anyone in the end. Wilson is as good as any QB in the league, probably the most difficult QB in the league to defend.And if he continues on this trajectory there is no question he will destroy some of the records and collect some more hardware before he is done.

[HumanCockroach]

I swear, only in Seattle do fans feel it absolutely a necessity to diminish any and all accomplishments, as if they feel it will be a black mark on their souls if they acknowledge the accomplishments of a player or the team. Makes me sad, it really does, unfortunate some can't recognize greatness when they see it first hand.

[burrrton]

I swear, only on this board do some feel it absolutely necessary to engage in a written orgy over any and all analyses, no matter how banal, and if someone doesn't, they take it personally.

HC, for heaven's sake, just because this particular statistical slice-and-dice didn't overly impress some of us doesn't mean we don't recognize RW's greatness.

[monkey]

RW's very unique skill set....

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for a bulk yardage passer, I can tell you I don't throw it as often as some, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired from a combination of genetics and extremely hard work. Skills that make me a nightmare for defenses all over the league. If you let your ridiculous high volume passer bias go now, that will be the end of it. I will not show you up, I will not make you look stupid. But if you don't, I will prove that your, bias is based on ignorance, I will beat every team on the way to the Super Bowl, and then I will win that game too.

[HumanCockroach]

I swear, only on this board do some feel it absolutely necessary to engage in a written orgy over any and all analyses, no matter how banal, and if someone doesn't, they take it personally.

HC, for heaven's sake, just because this particular statistical slice-and-dice didn't overly impress some of us doesn't mean we don't recognize RW's greatness.

I suppose if this was the first instance ( it isn't) or the last instance ( it won't be by a mile) I would accept the tongue and cheek reprimand, but since it isn't close to the first, and isn't close to being the last time of people dismissing historical significance of this team or it's players, I'll just continue to shake my head, and be absolutely baffled by some Seattlites fixation on claiming someone else, or some other team is better, greater or the all important dismissing of accomplishments because it's "apples and oranges". Don't in the least feel bad or guilty about pointing it out, as it is usually the same people dismissing said accomplishments.

[RiverDog]

I swear, only in Seattle do fans feel it absolutely a necessity to diminish any and all accomplishments, as if they feel it will be a black mark on their souls if they acknowledge the accomplishments of a player or the team. Makes me sad, it really does, unfortunate some can't recognize greatness when they see it first hand.

It's not a matter of diminishing accomplishments. It's a matter of finding the right yardstick to measure them, and IMO the above mentioned stat that quotes finishing 16th and 20th in any particular category then comparing it with players from 40-50 years ago is not a good way to make a significant impression on some of us.

[Anthony]

It's not a matter of diminishing accomplishments. It's a matter of finding the right yardstick to measure them, and IMO the above mentioned stat that quotes finishing 16th and 20th in any particular category then comparing it with players from 40-50 years ago is not a good way to make a significant impression on some of us.

Fine compare it to players of the current year or at least the last 20 or so, guess what it is still the first and only time it has happened. Vick, Newton, RG3, Cunningham, Rodgers, McNabb, McNair and there are more all great running QBs who never did it.

I mean we are now saying this Defense may be the best of all time but that is comparing it to defenses from 40 years ago too. Also again top 10 in YPA in both passing and rushing and so much more. If you cannot understand the historical significance in all that then I feel sorry for you. With all these duel threats stats Wilson is proving you can win with a duel threat QB, you can set records with a new threat QB, and he is showing how, He is basically leading the way. Again if you want to under score it or find some lame attempt to down play it like comparing it to QBs from 40-50 years ago when we can compare it to QBs now fine, your issue. However anyone in their right mind would understand the historical importance of this and other records. oh and FYI Wilson has rushed for more yards in his first 3 years in the league than any other QB in history has in their first 3 years in the league, but I am sure that does not mean much to you either

[c_hawkbob]

When you're talking about statistical ranking placement, current or 50 years ago is not at all relevant because every single person evaluated is only ranked against players of their own era.

The fact that any accomplishment has never been done before in the history of the league is what is impressive. Just because it's not an evaluation you're used to looking at makes it no less valid, it has still raised the bar for all players past and present.

If you're not seeking to diminish the accomplishment you're seeking to diminish appreciation of it, either way I don't at all understand why you have to make such an issue of it.

[monkey]

Really, no one caught the "certain set of skills"/Taken reference?
Come on...I actually had to think about how to word that so it made sense...

[burrrton]

Really, no one caught the "certain set of skills"/Taken reference?
Come on...I actually had to think about how to word that so it made sense...

I caught it- just didn't think it was that clever. Don't know why you guys have to think everyone should get so excited about it... /sarcasm

[c_hawkbob]

Harsh ...

[burrrton]

Harsh ...

(posting to make sure the intended tone of my post was caught)

[c_hawkbob]

Harsh ...

(posting to make sure the intended tone of my post was caught)

OK, you were supposed to read that in your Pauly Shore voice.

[burrrton]

OK, you were supposed to read that in your Pauly Shore voice.

Got it.

[RiverDog]

If you're not seeking to diminish the accomplishment you're seeking to diminish appreciation of it, either way I don't at all understand why you have to make such an issue of it.

All I'm doing is expressing my own opinion. I never said you, Anthony, HC's, or anyone else, were misguided in their appreciation of the "achievement". If reading my comments has caused you or anyone else to appreciate less the "achievement" you seem so impressed with, then that's on you, not me.

If you or anyone else in this forum haven't figured it out by now, I am very consistent in my take on any statistical or value judgments of present players/teams/coaches vs. those of the past. I've used the "apples vs. oranges" rationale a lot in these types of discussions, and I won't change my way of thinking just because the subject is our favorite son.

[Anthony]

All I'm doing is expressing my own opinion. I never said you, Anthony, HC's, or anyone else, were misguided in their appreciation of the "achievement". If reading my comments has caused you or anyone else to appreciate less the "achievement" you seem so impressed with, then that's on you, not me.

If you or anyone else in this forum haven't figured it out by now, I am very consistent in my take on any statistical or value judgments of present players/teams/coaches vs. those of the past. I've used the "apples vs. oranges" rationale a lot in these types of discussions, and I won't change my way of thinking just because the subject is our favorite son.

And yet the apples and oranges does not work in the case of first time every as that would include those playing right now. So maybe this help you al those things Wilson just accomplished not only was if the first time ever it was also the first time in the current era. So with Kam Newton, Luck, Kap, Rodgers, Vick and many other duel threat QBs of this era and yet still Wilson was the first.