Wilson does more with less against better than Luck Does

[Anthony]

We got to see something interesting this year. What Luck would look like if he did not have TY Hilton (his #1 wr, meaning while still better than ours his Wr corps was not top 10 without Hilton) and his Oline was not top 10 in pass blocking for a 2 game period around the same time as Hilton was out( they finished top 10, but for 2 games due to injuries they performed according to footballotusider.com like around 20th) And below is what you get against 2 good defenses and teams

296 yards, 58% complt, 2 tds 3 ints, 5.28 ypa, 18 yards rushing, 2.3 ypa not exactly awe inspiring and he still had more talent around him than Wilson does.

FYI Luck faced 1 top 10 defense(by yards) all year qb rating 83.1. Wilson faced 5 his QB rating was 101. Luck Faced 3 top 10 defenses (by scoring) QB rating 82, Wilson 5 QB rating 106. Also Luck face 1 top 10 pass defense QB rating 83, Wilson faced 6 QB rating 102.7

How much of Luck is real and how much is due to easy schedule, great talent around him, and FYI his defense was top 10 also. To me all the info above says a lot, then add in his really bad playoff performances and it makes you wonder. We have a QB that can excel against the best, do it with less, and in the playoffs, and Luck well the facts do not look so good and experts are starting to pick up on it, They talked about it today on NFL network, about his playoffs, and his easy schedule etc.

[Hawktawk]

Its a little early Anthony. Both guys are only in their 3rd year.Manning had a similar career trajectory to Luck , actually less successful. I thought he would never be worth a damn but he turned out to be pretty good. I dont rate him as high as some but still a clear HOFer.

Now we have a postseason to evaluate Luck and Wilson once again. I agree that Luck seems lost without his security blanket flavor of the season which is TY Hilton. Last year was similar results when Wayne went down. Ive said repeatedly I'd never want Luck over Wilson.But again, we will see how this postseason plays out.

[burrrton]

"But... BUT... EYE TEST!" -Futureite

[edit]

For some actual content, it's long been my contention that Indy wasn't the worst team in the league when Luck took over- they were a perennial contender that had 1 horrible season when Manning was out, then returned to form (ish) the next year.

In other words, that 2-14 team that everyone said was such a joke would have been considered quite good if Manning had been QB'ing instead of Collins et al. Manning wasn't QB'ing, though, and they had a terrible season.

Am I off-base?

[Futureite]

But...but....we get to see Percy Harvin and Golden Tate put up 100 yds everytime we look up now and neither did jackshyt with Russell Wilson. Pretty much destroys the "if he only had better receivers" argument. He did apparently have some prwtty good receivers and one of them was on pace to have a historically bad season 1 yr after putting up MVP caliber numbers.

Look, he is a good QB. And I didn't want to xome here and piss on everyone's parade after his game V the Cards. Despite what some of you believe, I'm not into doing that. But I KNEW the probability of him folkowing that up with a 200 yd-ish no TD 1 INT game tge next week was pretty good. Why? Because he relies on playground type plays to be successful and he rarely sits in a pocket and deals. That style will always be conducive to big swings in production and will never, ever lead to an Aaron Rodgrs/Tom Brady/(insert name) consistently top 5 play. And he is only able to limit his TOs during off games because each and every yr he has a #1 D and #1 rush O - literally. It allows him to have crap production like he did against us just a couple weeks ago where he did next to nothing and still won. Meanwhile Rivers and even Lindley torched us the following 2 weeks.

I mean really, Kap was bad this yr (some say bad period) and still produced about the same yds, TDs and INTs with riughly the same attempts. 19/10 V 20/7 int/TD ratios. 63 v 60% completion ratio. If he were THAT good I'd expect him to demolish a "bad" NFL QB in every category rather than dispaying a modest increase. His numbers are very comparabke to Alex Smith, who ironucally also won a whole shyt ton of games with a great D and run game and ended 2012 with a 102.5 QB rating.. Same exact stle up there with far more athleticism and "wow" mixed in.

I saw one poster in particular call me out after the Cards game. "Not a rhythm thrower, eh?" No, he's not. That is called gitting hot reads V a high % blitz team. It's the same reason he put up big numbers V the Rams in their earlier meeting. Again, you'd not put Kap in the same unviverse as Wilson yet look at his numbers V both tge Rams and Cards and compare them to Wilson's. Same exact thing; similar production and TDs, both had a huve game or two throwing against the BLITZ. That is not sitting in a pocket and diagnosing a D, picking it apart. It is making the correct presnap read on man coverage and tbrowing to that guy.

My opinion on him is the same as before. When your D was not up to snuff and your run game struggled Hawks were 3-3. Yes, that is a simple "eye test". Whether they are bloated or legit, don't need a bunch of random stats to show me what he uisgood at and hoe he plays. He is still around 10-12 range to me, prob closer to 10.

[Futureite]

I will end it with this, since I have no desire to go round on circles in it again:

A lot of you compare RW to Montana. In 1986 Montana had major back surgery and came back to play mid-yr. His mibility was never close to the same, yet he had some of the most productive yrs of his career after that (87' and 89' possibly being his best) playing purely from the pocket. Look at how Wilson plays and tell me that he is on that level when not scrambling for days or extending plays. I mean, cmon. We all see and appreciate how incredible he is when he does what he does. But if you tied his legs together and made him sit in a pocket he'd be very, very average and wouldn't even remotely be in the conversation of best NFL QB as Montana was. RW is done if he has an RGIII type injury or major back surgery.

Could he be "great" with Walsh/Holmgren/Shanahan etc coaching him up and forcing him to do what Montana/Young had to learn? I will never doubt any person who works towards anything, ever. But we'll never know with Derel Bevel calling WR screens and read options, rudementary route combos and saying "Russell, go make some plays and win the game". That's nit how Luck plays, or Rodgers or any of the QBs you guys compare him to play.

[burrrton]

Pretty much destroys the "if he only had better receivers" argument

Uh, no, it doesn't, and if you weren't so invested in your ridiculous, emotion-based position, you'd know that.

I will end it with this

Thank you.

[Futureite]

Burrton;

Are you watching Andrew Luck right now? He is putting on a QB clinic in every way imaginable - pocket presence, touch, footwork, arm strength, progressions. 35 attempts and already over 300 yds even with several drops. And BTW, just heard Nance say Colts WRs lead the NFL in drops this yr. Hopefully that puts an end to this complete bullshyt that Russell Wilson has been so deprived with Tate and Harvin and Luck cup runneth over with TY Hilton. FN moronic premise to begin with. And if you swap Luke Wilson for Coby Fleener, both guys would have the exact same success (or lack thereof) on Colts and Hawks, respectively. LW is a player for sure. People here woyld then be crying "But...but...Luck has Luke Wilson and RW is stuck with Fleener".

If you don't want a debtate why call me out on a thread with the eye test garbage. My eyes are watcing a top 3 QB playing the Bengals right now and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[HumanCockroach]

I can't be the only person watching the Colts game, which goes dump off, dump off, dump off, dump off, wr screen, throwback to te, dump off, dump off, 3 yard pass, wr screen, force throw down the field, stand in pocket for a half hour, eventually run around, then throw for TD.... Man, your eyes are watching the same playcalling and offense, except with more speed and explosion.

If you think that any coordinator isn't letting their special QB go win the game, whether it be Montan or Rodgers or Brady or Luck, you don't know sh*t about how the game is played at that level, or was the "catch" a called scramble play? Of course it wasn't, was Lucks last throw a dissecting of the defense? Nope, Luck HAD to improvise, and any QB that can't ( minus mister Manning) is toast, garbage an also ran or a never was. Only ONE QB gets away with no improvisation, and that QB tends to get trashed when plays break down and pressure is applied ( take a gander at SB 48 for a clear breakdown).... Brady, Romo, Wilson, Luck etc can ALL move, at least enough to extend a play, and allow to make big plays, when a play breaks down, I not sure you are watching, but without the mobility ( at least within the pocket), QB's are NOT successful, because simply pu, a team NEEDS those "schoolyard" plays ( the same ones you ooh and ahh over when the name is Luck or Rodgers etc) to WIN games.

[Anthony]

Burrton;

Are you watching Andrew Luck right now? He is putting on a QB clinic in every way imaginable - pocket presence, touch, footwork, arm strength, progressions. 35 attempts and already over 300 yds even with several drops. And BTW, just heard Nance say Colts WRs lead the NFL in drops this yr. Hopefully that puts an end to this complete bullshyt that Russell Wilson has been so deprived with Tate and Harvin and Luck cup runneth over with TY Hilton. FN moronic premise to begin with. And if you swap Luke Wilson for Coby Fleener, both guys would have the exact same success (or lack thereof) on Colts and Hawks, respectively. LW is a player for sure. People here woyld then be crying "But...but...Luck has Luke Wilson and RW is stuck with Fleener".

If you don't want a debtate why call me out on a thread with the eye test garbage. My eyes are watcing a top 3 QB playing the Bengals right now and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Your eyes are watching want you want to see, Luck is not a top 3 Qb I do say top 10 but he is not top 3. Once again I used facts to support my claim, and once again you do not. The fact still is Luck has way more talent around him and when he looses some of that talent and it comes down to middle of the back he falters. Unlike our QB who has less than middle of the rode talent but still succeeds, These are facts you cannot counter. Thanks for trying though.

Oh and FYI when we were 3-3 Wilson only had a QB rating of 102.5 and 13 tds with only 2 ints, and avg 55 yards rushing, So while Luck struggled without his top 10 Wr corps and pass blocking oline Wilson excelled with his defense and run game struggling. Thanks for proving my point

[burrrton]

Are you watching Andrew Luck right now?

I was indeed, and he looked great.

And SURPRISE- he threw 44 times for that yardage, for ~8.5 YPA (less than RW's the last couple games?). Weird how that works, eh, Future?

FN moronic premise to begin with.

LOL. Tell me more about "fcking moronic premises", Mr. EYETEST.

And yeah, take Luck's drops down to normal, and he might have completed as high a % of his passes as RW this year.

I'm going to say this again, because beating you up for your nonsense might give the wrong impression- I think Luck is a stud, and may end up being better than RW in the long run. HOWEVER, there is simply no argument he has been head and shoulders better to this point (even including this year), and before RW's midseason slump, there was NO argument he hadn't been inferior.

Well, outside of The Futureite Eye Test™.

[Anthony]

I was indeed, and he looked great.

And SURPRISE- he threw 44 times for that yardage, for ~8.5 YPA. Weird how that works, eh, Future?

Isn't it, lets see Wilson last game he had 9.56 YPA so if he threw 44 times he would have had 421 yards. IF Luck had only thrown 25 times like Wilson he would have had only 213 yard less than Wilson. amazing.

You see future the issue with you is while none of us Is saying Luck is not a great QB, you refuse to say Wilson is even though every fact and stats says he is, and when all else fails you go to your "eye Test" which for you means completely bias. Unlike you I can see Luck play and see he is a great QB, and though there is little doubt he gains form having a top 10 wr corps, top 10 pass blocking oline, pass happy offense and an easy schedule it still does not take away form him being a great QB.

[mykc14]

But...but....we get to see Percy Harvin and Golden Tate put up 100 yds everytime we look up

Really this again. I pretty much blew up this argument months ago. In the same number of attempts Tate's numbers this year are almost identical to his last year in Seattle (they were actually slightly better in Seattle). That is with megatron who is constantly guarded by the other teams best corner and often bracket covered giving Tate a much easier matchup on a week to week basis as he was almost always covered by the other teams best corner when he was in Seattle. Try again.

[Anthony]

Really this again. I pretty much blew up this argument months ago. In the same number of attempts Tate's numbers this year are almost identical to his last year in Seattle (they were actually slightly better in Seattle). That is with megatron who is constantly guarded by the other teams best corner and often bracket covered giving Tate a much easier matchup on a week to week basis as he was almost always covered by the other teams best corner when he was in Seattle. Try again.

Not to mention the game today further proves my point 2 games without his #1 wr and with 2 oline man hurt and Luck was bad, Today he gets his #1 back and his oline man and he looks good. HMMM. Like I said Luck is a great QB but he has a lot more talent around him and when that talent does not play not so good. Some QBs can do it with less, Wilson. Other cannot not, or at least has not shown it yet, Luck.

[burrrton]

"BUT ANTHONY DIDN'T U SEE THAT TATE HAD FEWER YARDS WHEN THE QB DIDN'T THROW MORE THAN 25x A GAME?!?" -Future, thinking he's making a point

[Anthony]

But...but....we get to see Percy Harvin and Golden Tate put up 100 yds everytime we look up

Yes and Harvin ended up 125th in receiving, and as to Tate Yeah more yards because he got thrown to more because he is in a passing offense, and is the #2 opposite Megatron so he always has single coverage, however with us he always had double coverage, also a lower YPA proving once again you are clueless. Let me help you that means if we threw the ball as much as Detroit and we focused on mainly 2 wrs instead of spreading the ball around and he got the same 99 rec with us he would have had even more yards. You in your zest to find something to cling to you continue to show you ignorance of the game. Not only did Tate have a lower YPA but he has less TDs this year then last. Interesting how the so called facts you provide when put in context with real facts show you wrong.