Interesting cap info

[Anthony]

So I found this interesting

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

39.9 Mil on offense, 66.7 mil on defense for 2015 as of now

[mykc14]

What is so interesting about that?

[NorthHawk]

They signed a few top players on Defense in the last year that will skew the numbers to a degree.
When Wilson is signed it should start to even out a little, but this team is Defense focused so it will probably always be in favor of the Defense.
What would it look like if Harvin was still here and Wilson is re-signed? I suspect it would be even closer.

[mykc14]

They signed a few top players on Defense in the last year that will skew the numbers to a degree.
When Wilson is signed it should start to even out a little, but this team is Defense focused so it will probably always be in favor of the Defense.
What would it look like if Harvin was still here and Wilson is re-signed? I suspect it would be even closer.

Exactly. Is the point of the OP to show how much more we are spending on D next year than O? We have multiple players who have signed their 2nd contract on D over the past few seasons and only 1 on O. Those numbers also don't include Harvin's dead money next year (something like 6 mil, which should count) and don't include other players we will obviously have like a backup QB (Jackson is a FA next year). It also, obviously, doesn't count whatever we end of paying RW. At the same time Wag's extension is also going to add more money, although not nearly the same amount, to the defensive side of the ball. All of that being said we have THE BEST DEFENSE if football, a defense that is historically good so obviously we are going to have more money being spent on that side of the ball, which is why I am wondering why this is so interesting.

[Anthony]

What is so interesting about that?

The point was that while I knew we spent more on Defense than Offense I was not aware it was that big a difference, and While I agree resigning Wilson will make it closer the cap also goes up and they will resign Wagner so odds are the number next year will look like this, with Wilson getting 22 mil and Wagner 8 mil. The talent or lack there of on offense reflects this gap.

61.9 Mil on offense, 74.7 mil

That is still a big gap. To me it is interesting, especially since Wilson can now be resigned. Will he want to sign with a team that puts so little value on offense, specifically the passing game, when he wants to be the best QB ever. Right now probably will, but if we win another SB maybe not. That is all and you can bet Wilson knows about this or at least his agent does. That's all just interesting to me. While someone of you might disagree lets not fool ourselves, without Wilson this offense does nothing at all.

[mykc14]

The point was that while I knew we spent more on Defense than Offense I was not aware it was that big a difference, and While I agree resigning Wilson will make it closer the cap also goes up and they will resign Wagner so odds are the number next year will look like this, with Wilson getting 22 mil and Wagner 8 mil. The talent or lack there of on offense reflects this gap.

61.9 Mil on offense, 74.7 mil

That is still a big gap. To me it is interesting, especially since Wilson can now be resigned. Will he want to sign with a team that puts so little value on offense, specifically the passing game, when he wants to be the best QB ever. Right now probably will, but if we win another SB maybe not. That is all and you can bet Wilson knows about this or at least his agent does. That's all just interesting to me. While someone of you might disagree lets not fool ourselves, without Wilson this offense does nothing at all.

Like I mentioned before you really need to add Harvin's cap number next year to that (6 or 7 mil) and the numbers suddenly get much closer (using your numbers): 68 mil to 74 mil. And that is before they have even signed anybody else and again, wouldn't you expect the NFL's Best Defense to have more money spent on it than the offense?

[Anthony]

Like I mentioned before you really need to add Harvin's cap number next year to that (6 or 7 mil) and the numbers suddenly get much closer (using your numbers): 68 mil to 74 mil. And that is before they have even signed anybody else and again, wouldn't you expect the NFL's Best Defense to have more money spent on it than the offense?

1 if you look to the left they do take into account dead money
2 yes but not by that much and if that is the case no one should ever complain about the offense given how little they are applying to it.

[HumanCockroach]

IMHO your missing the boat on this. There are 6 players playing on the offense in their first contracts, while the defense has multiple second contract players that have already been resigned. Sherman, Thomas, Wright, Mebane, Avril all were recently signed, with Wagner due an extension as well. This has zero to do with " how much they are investing in defense" and everything to do with WHEN those players were able to be extended. Kearse, Willson,Sweezy,Britt,Richardson,Norwood,Wilson ALL are on first contracts and ALL of them are "limited" to those contracts by the NFL not the Seahawks.

You keep attempting to create a storyline by which the Hawks "ignore" the offense, and that story is make believe. UNTIL players can be extended ( and perform at a level for a large extension, like Wilson) there is going to be the discrepency. If you want to aimlessly throw money at players that's your deal, thank the lord it isn't the Seahawks front office's thing.

[Anthony]

IMHO your missing the boat on this. There are 6 players playing on the offense in their first contracts, while the defense has multiple second contract players that have already been resigned. Sherman, Thomas, Wright, Mebane, Avril all were recently signed, with Wagner due an extension as well. This has zero to do with " how much they are investing in defense" and everything to do with WHEN those players were able to be extended. Kearse, Willson,Sweezy,Britt,Richardson,Norwood,Wilson ALL are on first contracts and ALL of them are "limited" to those contracts by the NFL not the Seahawks.

You keep attempting to create a storyline by which the Hawks "ignore" the offense, and that story is make believe. UNTIL players can be extended ( and perform at a level for a large extension, like Wilson) there is going to be the discrepency. If you want to aimlessly throw money at players that's your deal, thank the lord it isn't the Seahawks front office's thing.

No I want them to make a real successful attempt to improve the offense and given how little is invested, there should be no excuse not to. Example the oline, been bad for 3 years, and while you can argue they have tried they have failed and by their own admission they look for run blockers not pass blockers or people than can do both. People want Wilson to take a "home town discount" so they have more money to spend on talent but why would he when they have shown little inclination or success doing it on offense. That is the point of this whole thing. To me other than Lynch and hopefully Wilson, everything else they do on offense is on the cheap, and the one time you could argue they did not go cheap it was a miserable failure. The reality is it is no make believe they do ignore the offense, 3 years line is no better, 3 years no big or #1 wr. That's ignoring or at worst being un successful.

[mykc14]

1 if you look to the left they do take into account dead money
.

Really? I did look. I can see a section where it shows the Hawks have 11 mil in dead money next season, but it doesn't say it counts that towards O or D. Also, as HC pointed out in the last post and I pointed out earlier it has much more to do with where guys are in their salary. Our O only has 4 contributors who have ever signed their 2nd contract (ADB,Unger, Lynch, and Miller). The D has 9 (ET, Sherm, Kam, Avril, Bennett, KJ, Mebane, Williams, and McDaniel). Both sides have a few others but they are mostly backups. Again, the point is guys are going to earn more $ after their first contracts and that is what you are seeing now.

[mykc14]

everything else they do on offense is on the cheap, and the one time you could argue they did not go cheap it was a miserable failure. The reality is it is no make believe they do ignore the offense, 3 years line is no better, 3 years no big or #1 wr. That's ignoring or at worst being un successful.

I am sorry you are just wrong. PC and JS have used their first 1st pick in the draft on OL or WR EVERY YEAR except 1. Every f-ing year. In their 5 drafts, if you look at their first 2 picks (so that would be 10 total draft choices) they have used 7 on the O (with 6 being OL or WR). How you can't understand that they are not ignoring those positions or throwing resources at them is beyond me. They have used 70% of their first 2 picks per draft on offense. Because you are so obsessed with this concept where exactly do you want them to improve the OL? Lets look at it position by position: LT Do you want them to sign a premier LT? If so who and how much would that cost? Should they draft a LT. I am pretty sure there are no franchise quality LT's being drafted with the 32nd pick. RG, although Carp has played decent this year that could be upgraded, but again at what cost $ or what cost another first round pick? Center, RG, RT same questions. The point is they are not in a position to easily upgrade their OL, especially when it is such a good RBlocking unit. IMO the biggest issue with the OL has been health. If you were to get a healthy season of Okung, Carp, Unger, Sweezy, and Britt next year you would have a very good NFL OL, IMO.

[Anthony]

I am sorry you are just wrong. PC and JS have used their first 1st pick in the draft on OL or WR EVERY YEAR except 1. Every f-ing year. In their 5 drafts, if you look at their first 2 picks (so that would be 10 total draft choices) they have used 7 on the O (with 6 being OL or WR). How you can't understand that they are not ignoring those positions or throwing resources at them is beyond me. They have used 70% of their first 2 picks per draft on offense. Because you are so obsessed with this concept where exactly do you want them to improve the OL? Lets look at it position by position: LT Do you want them to sign a premier LT? If so who and how much would that cost? Should they draft a LT. I am pretty sure there are no franchise quality LT's being drafted with the 32nd pick. RG, although Carp has played decent this year that could be upgraded, but again at what cost $ or what cost another first round pick? Center, RG, RT same questions. The point is they are not in a position to easily upgrade their OL, especially when it is such a good RBlocking unit. IMO the biggest issue with the OL has been health. If you were to get a healthy season of Okung, Carp, Unger, Sweezy, and Britt next year you would have a very good NFL OL, IMO.

Notice the word Successful? That is the key my point is the FO is very very good at finding top defensive talent, but when it comes to oline and WR yeah not so much,. You forgot the key word Successful. In 3 years of knowing our oline is bad not one keeper, if 3 years of knowing we need a big WR and or #1 not one keeper. That is not good. Again my point. FYI when they were all healthy the oline was 20th not so good. Also that is a big "IF" as far as healthy since it has not happened for any length of time in over 2 seasons. FYI are they really that good a run blocking unit or is it because we have such a great RB who can go through tackles and a QB who can make everyone look stupid. I submit a lot of our success in the running game is not because of the oline being great run blockers but of our RB and QB. Your talk in a lot of ifs and hopes I am talking reality. Last year Wilson played several games with an injury, this year according to PC he got up from some hits and was shaken and played several games with a hurt Thumb. You have seen some of the hits he has taken. Really want to keep taking a chance one of them is not the hit, just because you think after 3 years all of a sudden this oline will stay healthy and magically become a top 15 pass blocking oline when they have never gotten higher than 20th even when healthy. If that happens is your answer going to be but they tried? My point to all this we have a franchise QB but we are not protecting him, and not giving him the weapons he needs, but that is okay because we are winning, and they are trying just failing. Yeah we are winning but we are one hit form not winning, and I know that hit can come even with a great oline but you know what they odds are much better it will not happen with a good pass blocking oline.

If I were Wilson and I am sure his agent has said this, I would be hesitant to resign here, knowing that means I will take a beating because of their inability to address the pass blocking part of the oline. Given they PC has said they rely on Wilsons escapability when looking at the blocking schemes that says what you need to know, they are not as worried because of it, not a great thing for a QB who wants to be the best and knows he needs to also be very good in the pocket, and also eventually that escapability will lessen. Also FYI all of our Oline draftees were known to be good run blockers and avg or worse pass blockers.

What they do this off season could go a long way in if they can resign Wilson. After 3 years of unsuccessfully trying to find a big or #1 Wr and fixing the oline, this off season is going to be huge and if we win the SB again it will be huger.

But hey on second thought you are right all is right and great on offense, who needs to improve on offense. The offense is just fine, great world class. Just keep trying, forget about succeeding as long as they are trying, even if it fails that is okay, heck we are winning, for now.

[mykc14]

Notice the word Successful? That is the key my point is the FO is very very good at finding top defensive talent, but when it comes to oline and WR yeah not so much,. You forgot the key word Successful.



But hey on second thought you are right all is right and great on offense, who needs to improve on offense. The offense is just fine, great world class. Just keep trying, forget about succeeding as long as they are trying, even if it fails that is okay, heck we are winning, for now.

This is exactly my point. In the past you have said they haven't used the same resources on the O as the D, in fact that was the whole point of this thread. I showed you where they have used some of their most precious resources on the OL and WR. Now you are arguing that they have tried but haven't been successful. So your plan is to throw more resources at those positions when we haven't been successful at drafting/trading/signing FA there in the first place? Again, who on the OL do you want to replace? All of them? Who on the D should we not have signed to afford these players (ET, Sherm, Kam, KJ, Avril, Bennett)? Should we not re-sign our All-Pro LB Bobby Wagner to upgrade some area of the OL? As far as your remark about them being in the 20's when they were all healthy I would argue that was very, very early in the season. I would submit that they would look much better now, if all had been healthy all year and Britt with a full season under his belt.

I have been saying for a long time that we need a true #1 receiver. They tried to get Harvin, and failed. I have also been hoping that somehow Dez gets out of Dallas and we can sign him. My point has always been that in the salary cap era of the NFL we can't have the best everything and you aren't going to be able to sign everybody. We have the best D in the league and I wouldn't want to mess with that too much, would you?

[Anthony]

This is exactly my point. In the past you have said they haven't used the same resources on the O as the D, in fact that was the whole point of this thread. I showed you where they have used some of their most precious resources on the OL and WR. Now you are arguing that they have tried but haven't been successful. So your plan is to throw more resources at those positions when we haven't been successful at drafting/trading/signing FA there in the first place? Again, who on the OL do you want to replace? All of them? Who on the D should we not have signed to afford these players (ET, Sherm, Kam, KJ, Avril, Bennett)? Should we not re-sign our All-Pro LB Bobby Wagner to upgrade some area of the OL? As far as your remark about them being in the 20's when they were all healthy I would argue that was very, very early in the season. I would submit that they would look much better now, if all had been healthy all year and Britt with a full season under his belt.

I have been saying for a long time that we need a true #1 receiver. They tried to get Harvin, and failed. I have also been hoping that somehow Dez gets out of Dallas and we can sign him. My point has always been that in the salary cap era of the NFL we can't have the best everything and you aren't going to be able to sign everybody. We have the best D in the league and I wouldn't want to mess with that too much, would you?

They need to figure it out and improve the offense on the line and Wr, if they had been successful on any of their forays we would not be having this debate. Harvin was a stupid move not because of what happened but because he is not really a Wr. They have failed on their attempts in the draft and luring any FA. SO what I am saying is it might take a little money to get what we need. How they do that is what they get paid for. But when you have that big a difference in what you defensive and offensive payroll is, says a lot. Yes I know that it will change son, but they have had 3 years of it at this level, had they throw say 8-10 more into offense who knows were we might be, assuming they hit on their targets, which as I have pointed out on offense they have not been very good. Do no think for one minute Wilson is not going to be paying close attention to what if any moves they do to get him help on offense. I would not be surprised if he signs here, it is very late after they have shown and made some other moves. FYI this oline even healthy would not have been a top 15 pass blocking oline they are not goo pass blockers, that was not the MO of any of them when we got them. FYI as to the same resources the difference in how much is being spent on offense and how much on defense kind of points to the same resources not being spent, even last year before the resignings there was a difference and it was big. After 3 years one would think they would have hit on at least 1 player who is above avg, and other than Wilson that would be a no at least on offense. This needs to change starting this year.

[HumanCockroach]

But when you have that big a difference in what you defensive and offensive payroll is, says a lot. Yes I know that it will change son, but they have had 3 years of it at this level,

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

That isn't accurate, not in the least. Same site from the SB winning year shows more money spent on offense than defense Anthony, not the other way around, you want to complain about how the money was spent, be my guest, but please stop making stuff up to create a backstory for why Wilson is going to leave.

[Anthony]

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

That isn't accurate, not in the least. Same site from the SB winning year shows more money spent on offense than defense Anthony, not the other way around, you want to complain about how the money was spent, be my guest, but please stop making stuff up to create a backstory for why Wilson is going to leave.

Dude the site does not add up the offense and defense from the year before so you showed nothing, and I have not made up anything. I simply recall seeing this last year and seeing the defense being higher. Now I will admit having now done more research in 2013 the spends of active participating players were about even, and if you add dead money it skews toward the offense. This however proves my point even more about how bad they have been in finding good offensive talent. Most of the difference in cap is on dead offensive salaries not on people actually on the team helping. Also I never said he would leave I only said it is possible based on the info provided and nothing you said has changed the fact that for 3 years we have had a bad pass blocking oline and no #1 wr, despite those being known problems and they have been unsuccessful in fixing either with no real keeper from all their efforts. The fact is your franchise QB without whom the offense and this team is pretty much done, has been taking a beaten for the 2nd straight year he is the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league and we have been unable to even slightly improve. To not think this could have an impact on signing Wilson would be being blind and stupid.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep, offensive spending was higher last season. Resigned this year on defense, Sherman, Thomas, Wright,Avril, and Bennett. Resigned on offense, Baldwin. Isn't rocket science, and exactly coincides with when and how a player will be paid. Would you be happier if the Seahawks were overpaying for Carpenter and Britt ( as would have been the case a few short reasons ago) Wilson for the love of god is woefully underpaid, and there isn't a damn thing Seattle could or can do about it.

If you think that has nothing to do with the disparity, your insane.

[Anthony]

Yep, offensive spending was higher last season. Resigned this year on defense, Sherman, Thomas, Wright,Avril, and Bennett. Resigned on offense, Baldwin. Isn't rocket science, and exactly coincides with when and how a player will be paid. Would you be happier if the Seahawks were overpaying for Carpenter and Britt ( as would have been the case a few short reasons ago) Wilson for the love of god is woefully underpaid, and there isn't a damn thing Seattle could or can do about it.

If you think that has nothing to do with the disparity, your insane.

I never said it did not but that still not change the fact they have had 3 years to improve the oline and get a big or #1 Wr to help their franchise QB and they have failed.

[briwas101]

Here's how it is:

The Hawks HAVE devoted both a lot of money as well as Draft picks to both the offensive line and WR corp. As an example, they had the most expensive offensive line in the conference or entire nfl one or two years ago. They have used early picks on offensive line. The Hawks have also spent Draft picks and big money on WRs, as evidenced by Sidney Rice and Harvin becoming the most over - paid and least - productive wr duo in nfl history. They have used early picks on WR, including the one wasted on Harvin.

The Hawks have spent lots of money and Draft picks on wide receivers and offensive linemen. The problem is that it was almost always on the wrong players. That has been the problem. For as good as they have been on defense, that's how bad they have been with wide receiver and offensive line. I dare you guys to find one GM who has wasted more resources on wide receiver busts than Schneider in the last few years. The Hawks have been epically bad at finding a #1 wr.

Thank God for that defense and that little man named Russell Wilson

[monkey]

Here's how it is:

The Hawks HAVE devoted both a lot of money as well as Draft picks to both the offensive line and WR corp. As an example, they had the most expensive offensive line in the conference or entire nfl one or two years ago. They have used early picks on offensive line. The Hawks have also spent Draft picks and big money on WRs, as evidenced by Sidney Rice and Harvin becoming the most over - paid and least - productive wr duo in nfl history. They have used early picks on WR, including the one wasted on Harvin.

The Hawks have spent lots of money and Draft picks on wide receivers and offensive linemen. The problem is that it was almost always on the wrong players. That has been the problem. For as good as they have been on defense, that's how bad they have been with wide receiver and offensive line. I dare you guys to find one GM who has wasted more resources on wide receiver busts than Schneider in the last few years. The Hawks have been epically bad at finding a #1 wr.

Thank God for that defense and that little man named Russell Wilson

I agree with everything here, except what I bolded.
I understand where you are coming from there, but they really have not been that horrible at getting receivers when you really think about it.
For one thing, they've gotten terrific production out of several non drafted receivers, Baldwin, Kearse etc...That's more than most teams are able to do, it's actually quite rare to hit on that many late round and un-drafted players.
You have to also keep in mind the circumstances surrounding the moves they made. When the Seahawks got Sidney Rice, he was a year removed from having a monster season with Minnesota, and was EASILY the best free agent available who was able to be that big body, #1 WR we've been looking for so long. Yes, they missed on that he was extremely injury prone, and they should have gotten that right, anyone who followed the Vikes knew, and we had the Vikes offensive coordinator.
Speaking of that coordinator, he also knew all about Percy Harvin, and yes we screwed up badly on that one, without a doubt. Again though, had Percy not been a complete douche nozzle...
They missed, but they took a shot that, had it worked, would have made them look like geniuses.

Finally, and most importantly, I actually think that this last offseason, we hit TWICE in the draft. I think Richardson is going to be a STUD! I see his ceiling as being the player we thought Harvin was going to be! I also think that we hit with Kevin Norwood, whose upside I see as what we thought we were getting in Sidney RIce, or at least very close to.
Give those two an offseason, and then look at this again, and I'd bet we will all have changed our minds about the receivers in Seattle.

Finally, let me agree once more with your most important sentence you wrote,

Thank God for that defense and that little man named Russell Wilson

and all Seahawks fans who heard and agreed said?
AMEN!

[Anthony]

Here's how it is:

The Hawks HAVE devoted both a lot of money as well as Draft picks to both the offensive line and WR corp. As an example, they had the most expensive offensive line in the conference or entire nfl one or two years ago. They have used early picks on offensive line. The Hawks have also spent Draft picks and big money on WRs, as evidenced by Sidney Rice and Harvin becoming the most over - paid and least - productive wr duo in nfl history. They have used early picks on WR, including the one wasted on Harvin.

The Hawks have spent lots of money and Draft picks on wide receivers and offensive linemen. The problem is that it was almost always on the wrong players. That has been the problem. For as good as they have been on defense, that's how bad they have been with wide receiver and offensive line. I dare you guys to find one GM who has wasted more resources on wide receiver busts than Schneider in the last few years. The Hawks have been epically bad at finding a #1 wr.

Thank God for that defense and that little man named Russell Wilson

Great post, spot on and while I obviously did a bad job of making my point you just did it for me and better thanks.

[HumanCockroach]

Psst... Names please.... Easy to say, the Hawks "blew" a pick getting a number 1 wide receiver, or blew a pick improving the O-line, HELL of a lot harder to actually provide someone that WOULD have been better both in price range, AND in draft slots, unless that can be provided, you are accomplishing, and doing absolutely zero, except aimlessly b*tching.

You wanted someone better? Give us the name of the "true" number one receiver Seattle passed on? The perennial all pro O-lineman just sitting there? You do NOT commonly find those guys late in the first round, much less the second, third and fourth... Rice and Harvin OBVIOUSLY didn't work, but you know, they saw the same thing you guys did, attempted to fix it ( in two of the ONLY ways available for them TO fix it) and whiffed, I might add they tried MULTIPLE times before that as well, how quickly the attempts to land Jackson and Marshall is forgotten, BOTH were considered # 1's BOTH did NOT pan out for the teams that traded for them....

Sh*t happens, you KEEP trying, and move forward, which IS exactly what this FO has done and CONTINUES to do. They don't simply hold guys because of "cost" or "picks" they F up, they dump them and move on, Harvin is the "latest" but he certainly wasn't the first, and won't be the last.

[Long Time Fan]

If I were Wilson and I am sure his agent has said this, I would be hesitant to resign here.

You are sure that his agent has said this? Nonsense. Prove it.

You would be hesitant to resign here? I'm not concerned that Russell Wilson shares your views.

The Hawks have been epically bad at finding a #1 wr.

The rest of the NFL wishes that they had the Seahawks problems.

[NorthHawk]

The numbers of how much is spent on each side of the ball will be more valid at the start of next season when most contract extensions/FA signings have been completed.

Regarding Wilson staying or not, I would think that long term health would be a concern, but like most players he knows that winning is more important than money.
Too many great players never got to the top of the heap, so as a team guy, he would probably put success over personal wealth.
Besides, it's not like he will be a pauper with whatever offer the Seahawks offer.

[HumanCockroach]

If Seattle finds a way to get perennial all pro Lineman and Mega Tron talent picking near or at the bottom each and every year, I would think that the Lombardi Trophy would need to be renamed and soon. Truth is anyone expecting that type of talent, with the capital available, is not only unrealistic, but insane. Just not in the least realistic to think, "well just go get the next Walter Jones with pick 32 or you know, Julio Jones is just sitting there at the bottom of the first round", people get so focussed on what they WANT, they don't give a second thought to what is actually THERE... Which is exactly, why you get obsessions that span entire seasons, that place a team as a realistic REPEAT SB CHAMPION POSSIBILITY...

Anyone who thinks the Hawks aren't trying, investing the capital, or continually evaluating, and attempting to upgrade these areas, is lost, dillusional are downright crazy.

[obiken]

We trade up and give up Wilson, we get Marcus Mariota, and we continue to march with a new cap. Oregon my Alama Mater we guard the on and on!! Hee hee!

[HumanCockroach]

Happily stick with the guy that has proven repeatedly that he can get it done at this level, stay healthy and produce historical numbers, thank you very much. Pass.

[c_hawkbob]

We trade up and give up Wilson, we get Marcus Mariota, and we continue to march with a new cap. Oregon my Alama Mater we guard the on and on!! Hee hee!

LOL, easy on the Lorazapam there big guy.