HawkShack.com

I'm just curious. Looking at their schedule, I don't see a lot of teams that employ the read option to the degree that we do or that have the type of QB that has the tools to run it well. No Cam Newton, no Colin Kaepernick, no Russell Wilson. I'm sure that their coaches have faced it and have a good idea how to defend it, but will the players unfamiliarity in facing a true read option cause them problems in defending it? Will the extra week they have to prepare play to the Pats advantage?

The answer is zero. They were talking about this on the radio this morning. The Patriots have only faced qbs in that mold three times since 2012. Once each against Wilson, Newton and Kaepernick. Lost all three. Rodgers is the next best out of the pocket QB they faced (once) and they lost. Luck is the only mobile QB they've mastered.

kalibane wrote:The answer is zero. They were talking about this on the radio this morning. The Patriots have only faced qbs in that mold three times since 2012. Once each against Wilson, Newton and Kaepernick. Lost all three. Rodgers is the next best out of the pocket QB they faced (once) and they lost. Luck is the only mobile QB they've mastered.

That's what I thought, and it's refreshing to know that I'm not the only one that picked up on that factoid. IMO this could be a huge issue for the Pats.

The Pats will have had 2 weeks to study our Offense and will be as prepared as any team has been against us.
My concern is our Offense will come out shooting blanks like last game and get us in a hole we can't get out of.

Can't remember what radio station it was but they said yesterday that the pats had a total of 3 plays against them all season, had to get out of truck to unload so could not listen if they successfully stopped them or if they got burned

NorthHawk wrote:The Pats will have had 2 weeks to study our Offense and will be as prepared as any team has been against us.
My concern is our Offense will come out shooting blanks like last game and get us in a hole we can't get out of.

We've started a lot of games with the offense shooting blanks this season, against the Cards, Rams, 49'ers, etc. The problem with the Packers game was that the blanks the offense was shooting included turnovers. IMO we can afford a slow start by the offense so long as we keep the Pats at bay. If we get to halftime within a touchdown, we'll win it in the 2nd half.

QUICK look at the Pats defense this last year and into the playoffs:

Yards/Game allowed = 344/game 13th
rushing = 104/game (9th)
passing = 240/game (17th)
Points/Game allowed = 19.6/game - 8th

REGULAR SEASON
@ Miami (Tannehill) L 20-33: D allowed 178 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INT & 192 rushing yards
@ Vikings (Cassell) W 30-7: D allowed 202 Pass Yards; 1 TD/4 INTs & 54 rushing yards
VS Oakland (Carr) W 16-9: D allowed 174 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/1 INT & 67 rushing yards
@ KS (A. Smith) L 14-44 D: allowed 248 Pass Yards; 3 TDs/0 INTs & 207 rushing yards
VS Cinci (Dalton) W 43-17: D allowed 249 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/0 INT & 79 rushing yards
@ Bills (Orton) W 37-22 D: allowed 299 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INTs & 68 rushing yards
VS NY Jets (Geno) W 27-25: D allowed 226 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/0 INT & 218 rushing yards (37 by QB)
VS Bears (Cutler) W 51-23: D allowed 249 Pass Yards; 3 TDs/1 INT & 153 rushing yards
VS Broncos (Peyton) W 43-21: D allowed 438 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/2 INT & 43 rushing yards
@ Colts (Luck) W 42-20: D allowed 303 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INTs & 19 rushing yards
VS Lions (M Stafford) W 37-9: D allowed 264 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/1 INT & 91 rushing yards
@ Packers (Rogers) L 21-26: D allowed 395 Pass Yards; 2 Tds/0 INTs & 130 Rushing yards (22 by QB)
@ Chargers (Rivers) W 23-14: D allowed 189 Pass Yards; 1TDs/2 INT & 53 rushing yards
Vs Miami (Tannehill) W 41-13: D allowed 346Pass Yards; 1 TDs/2 INTs & 76 rushing yards (21 by QB)
@ NY Jets (Geno) W 17-16: D allowed 210 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/1 INT &104 rushing yards (37 by QB)
VS. Bills (Orton) L 9-17 D: allowed 176 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/0 INTs & 104 rushing yards

PLAYOFFS
VS. Baltimore (Flacco) W 35-31: D allowed 292 Pass Yards; 4 TDs/2 INTs & 136 rushing yards
VS. Colts (Luck) W 45-7: D allowed 126 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/2 INTs & 83 rushing yards

Hawk Sista wrote:QUICK look at the Pats defense this last year and into the playoffs:

Yards/Game allowed = 344/game 13th
rushing = 104/game (9th)
passing = 240/game (17th)
Points/Game allowed = 19.6/game - 8th

REGULAR SEASON
@ Miami (Tannehill) L 20-33: D allowed 178 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INT & 192 rushing yards
@ Vikings (Cassell) W 30-7: D allowed 202 Pass Yards; 1 TD/4 INTs & 54 rushing yards
VS Oakland (Carr) W 16-9: D allowed 174 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/1 INT & 67 rushing yards
@ KS (A. Smith) L 14-44 D: allowed 248 Pass Yards; 3 TDs/0 INTs & 207 rushing yards
VS Cinci (Dalton) W 43-17: D allowed 249 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/0 INT & 79 rushing yards
@ Bills (Orton) W 37-22 D: allowed 299 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INTs & 68 rushing yards
VS NY Jets (Geno) W 27-25: D allowed 226 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/0 INT & 218 rushing yards (37 by QB)
VS Bears (Cutler) W 51-23: D allowed 249 Pass Yards; 3 TDs/1 INT & 153 rushing yards
VS Broncos (Peyton) W 43-21: D allowed 438 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/2 INT & 43 rushing yards
@ Colts (Luck) W 42-20: D allowed 303 Pass Yards; 2 TDs/1 INTs & 19 rushing yards
VS Lions (M Stafford) W 37-9: D allowed 264 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/1 INT & 91 rushing yards
@ Packers (Rogers) L 21-26: D allowed 395 Pass Yards; 2 Tds/0 INTs & 130 Rushing yards (22 by QB)
@ Chargers (Rivers) W 23-14: D allowed 189 Pass Yards; 1TDs/2 INT & 53 rushing yards
Vs Miami (Tannehill) W 41-13: D allowed 346Pass Yards; 1 TDs/2 INTs & 76 rushing yards (21 by QB)
@ NY Jets (Geno) W 17-16: D allowed 210 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/1 INT &104 rushing yards (37 by QB)
VS. Bills (Orton) L 9-17 D: allowed 176 Pass Yards; 1 TDs/0 INTs & 104 rushing yards

PLAYOFFS
VS. Baltimore (Flacco) W 35-31: D allowed 292 Pass Yards; 4 TDs/2 INTs & 136 rushing yards
VS. Colts (Luck) W 45-7: D allowed 126 Pass Yards; 0 TDs/2 INTs & 83 rushing yards

Interesting. The three losses (not counting the mail in during Week 17) were to Tannehill, Alex Smith, and a healthy Aaron Rodgers, all mobile QB's. Kal wasn't just whistling Dixie when he noted that the Pats have had a problem defending against mobile QB's.

I can see Russell having a huge day Sunday, perhaps 100 yards rushing, 400 yards total offense, 4 TD's running/passing.

The QB position is a huge match up problem for the Pats, as weird as that is to say. RW has more ways to beat his opponent, maybe more ways than any QB in history. His win percentage would indicate that. Hes beyond a read option QB. Hes an I formation QB,drop back QB, roll out QB,scrambling QB. He will want Sunday so bad I think he will be radioactive....

Hawktawk wrote:The QB position is a huge match up problem for the Pats, as weird as that is to say. RW has more ways to beat his opponent, maybe more ways than any QB in history. His win percentage would indicate that. Hes beyond a read option QB. Hes an I formation QB,drop back QB, roll out QB,scrambling QB. He will want Sunday so bad I think he will be radioactive....

I am going to predict he struggles V the Pats' D. Reason for that is Belichick is going to stack heavily against the run to shut Lynch down and force Wilson to beat them. Now of course you are going to respond that RW has done X, Y and Z v other teams which have employed that strategy. As I've stated here before, RW is great V one on one coverage due to his outstanding deep ball accuracy and mobility. Most of his big games are built from facing stacked fronts and hitting big plays in one on one coverage.

But the Pats D creates a unique challenge though in that they can stick or bully receivers upfront in one on one coverage. Browner may be a liability if matched up with a more speedy receiver, but Richardson is injured and Lockette does not have the lateral movement to give him fits as other wrs have. Belichick will likely plan for this and roll coverage his way, or do something unique to confuse RW. The Pats also have extremely athletic LBs that can cover athletic TE's such as Luke Wilson and chase down QBs. They are not a "great" D by any means, but they do match up very well to defeat Seattle's pass O. I do not think Wilson struggles as hard as he did V GB, but I do not believe he will have a particularly good game either.

Nonetheless, I still believe in my gut that Seattle will win. They have proven too resilient throughout the years, their D and run game is too good, and even special teams seems to step up and make huge plays in big games. The value of the latter cannot be overstated.

Futureite wrote:
I am going to predict he struggles V the Pats' D. Reason for that is Belichick is going to stack heavily against the run to shut Lynch down and force Wilson to beat them. Now of course you are going to respond that RW has done X, Y and Z v other teams which have employed that strategy. As I've stated here before, RW is great V one on one coverage due to his outstanding deep ball accuracy and mobility. Most of his big games are built from facing stacked fronts and hitting big plays in one on one coverage.

But the Pats D creates a unique challenge though in that they can stick or bully receivers upfront in one on one coverage. Browner may be a liability if matched up with a more speedy receiver, but Richardson is injured and Lockette does not have the lateral movement to give him fits as other wrs have. Belichick will likely plan for this and roll coverage his way, or do something unique to confuse RW. The Pats also have extremely athletic LBs that can cover athletic TE's such as Luke Wilson and chase down QBs. They are not a "great" D by any means, but they do match up very well to defeat Seattle's pass O. I do not think Wilson struggles as hard as he did V GB, but I do not believe he will have a particularly good game either.

Nonetheless, I still believe in my gut that Seattle will win. They have proven too resilient throughout the years, their D and run game is too good, and even special teams seems to step up and make huge plays in big games. The value of the latter cannot be overstated.

wow what a surprise Future says Wilson will Struggle. Wow surprise surprise...NOT. He might and he might now, but you can bet when it counts most he sill come through like an Elite Qb is suppose to.

If the Patriots deploy a man up defense with a stacked box focussed on Lynch, Wilson is going to shred them, Wilson will, and can run at will against that type of defense, because Defenders have their eyes elsewhere. If Bill and Co decide that is the best solution, Wilson very well may set a couple more NFL records.

Who knows? I wish it was Saturday!

Anyone else that wouldn't be surprised with a 250/100 yard type game with a MVP award to boot from Wilson??

RW, IMO, is gonna need to use his legs, Big Time, in this game, especially early.

For as good as he his improvising and making something out of nothing passing, I think he should take the running lane as much as possible. Even if this means gains of only a couple of yards, it's much better than taking a sack or avoiding a possible turnover, via a fumble or forced throw into tight coverage. Naturally, if his scrambling allows him to hit somebody open, then do it. Otherwise, take what the D gives you.

It's going to be Crucial to avoid 3rd and longs as much as possible. Him running will go a long way in moving the chains, creating manageable 3rd downs, and keeping the Pat's D on the field.

We Cannot dig ourselves a deep hole like we did in the 1st half against the Packers.

Given what happened in the CCG, I think Bevell is gonna want to get Wilson into a nice passing rhythm early.

Yo Anthony, if you must respond to him, at least refrain from quoting him. We've got him on ignore for a reason.

Futureite wrote:I am going to predict he struggles V the Pats' D. Reason for that is Belichick is going to stack heavily against the run to shut Lynch down and force Wilson to beat them. Now of course you are going to respond that RW has done X, Y and Z v other teams which have employed that strategy.

Yea, Futureite predicting that Russell is going to struggle is like a rooster crowing at the morning sun. He does it prior to every game.

I don't doubt that Belichick and Co. will come up with a solid game plan to defend against RW that if implemented correctly, will completely shut down RW and the Hawks. Belichick seems to do best when given an extra week to prepare. But there's a huge difference between design and execution. The Patriots defense has not had to defend against Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick, not even a Chip Kelly Eagles team with Nick Foles and Mark Sánchez running the read, at least not this season. It's staying disciplined is what is going to take some getting used to.

I agree with Zorny. We cannot afford to dig ourselves into a 16-0 hole like we did in the NFCCG. If the score is at least within a touchdown at halftime, I think we win. Especially defensively, we are very good at making adjustments in the second half.

c_hawkbob wrote:Yo Anthony, if you must respond to him, at least refrain from quoting him. We've got him on ignore for a reason.

Sorry my Bad.

No sweat man. Come sunday we'll be repeat Champs for the first time since the team whose but we're fixin' to beat was and all will be right with the world!

I have predicted Russell Wilson will struggle every game? Not even close. In fact, I predicted two of his biggest games; AZ and ST Louis. Why? Because I knew that he'd face one on one coverage and a lot of blitzes.

And I'll be right about this too. The Pats will stack the box. They will give your WRs fits on the edge with their physicality (especially minus Harvin/Richardson i.e. a smaller speed receiver). Belichick will confuse RW, who does not read defenses particularly well.

If I did not write him into the hall of fame, I am a "troll". Some of you just have a real, real hard time with reality.

Wilson will have an opportunity to cement his legacy as the greatest dual threat QB of the modern era and a SB winning QB slayer. His play will be a big factor in determining the outcome.He could easily claim the MVP he was unfairly robbed of last year.
Just as big a spotlight will be on Brady who has looked extremely ordinary in 2 straight Superbowl's without seeing anything remotely like like the LOB. The key was getting pressure with 3 or 4 guys and Brady was flummoxed.
My moneys on Wilson. I dont know how the game will turn out but RW will play his guts out and make some amazing plays I have no doubt.And we have the Beast. Good luck New England....

Hawktawk wrote:Wilson will have an opportunity to cement his legacy as the greatest dual threat QB of the modern era and a SB winning QB slayer. His play will be a big factor in determining the outcome.He could easily claim the MVP he was unfairly robbed of last year.
Just as big a spotlight will be on Brady who has looked extremely ordinary in 2 straight Superbowl's without seeing anything remotely like like the LOB. The key was getting pressure with 3 or 4 guys and Brady was flummoxed.
My moneys on Wilson. I dont know how the game will turn out but RW will play his guts out and make some amazing plays I have no doubt.And we have the Beast. Good luck New England....

Unfairly robbed? It was an overwhelming majority, even amongst us 12's, that the MVP had to go to a defensive player as our defense was the largest single factor in our victory over the Broncos. Although he played an excellent game and did all that he was asked (of which the same could be said about nearly every player that day), Wilson's SB numbers weren't particularly eye popping.

Unfairly robbed? It was an overwhelming majority, even amongst us 12's, that the MVP had to go to a defensive player as our defense was the largest single factor in our victory over the Broncos. Although he played an excellent game and did all that he was asked (of which the same could be said about nearly every player that day), Wilson's SB numbers weren't particularly eye popping.

Actually, his numbers were a lot better than you are giving him credit for RD. Wilson placed himself in rare company with that game, and is the only one of the group of QB's to play that well in the SB and NOT win the MVP award. I agree that I felt it would and should go to a defensive player, but Wilson didn't play at an average level in that game ( no one did), so saying he did, seems to be an inaccurate statement.

I think the award should have gone to Kam or Avril, but I think Wilson deserved it over Smith. Wilson had an underrated game. He moved the ball all night despite the fact that Lynch wasn't really a factor. He just ended up being overshadowed by big plays.

Wilson's SB numbers weren't particularly eye popping.

River Dog..........I agree 100% that a Defensive player (I probably would have chosen Kam or Cliff myself) should have gotten the MVP last year... if not the entire D as a unit. But Russell was special in last year's super bowl. Top 3 passer rating in a super bowl ever.

funny Kal - I wrote my post before I saw yours. Proud to be in lock step with your thinking.

kalibane wrote:The answer is zero. They were talking about this on the radio this morning. The Patriots have only faced qbs in that mold three times since 2012. Once each against Wilson, Newton and Kaepernick. Lost all three. Rodgers is the next best out of the pocket QB they faced (once) and they lost. Luck is the only mobile QB they've mastered.

Yup. They've only mastered Luck because they've figure out how to keep him on the bench. The Colts couldn't stop my dad from running on them right now.
This is why all the talk about stopping Gronk, or whatever else people want to talk about just really doesn't matter. This game will come down to just one thing; can the Patriots stop both Lynch and Wilson?
I think the answer will be a resounding no, no they cannot.

monkey wrote:Yup. They've only mastered Luck because they've figure out how to keep him on the bench. The Colts couldn't stop my dad from running on them right now.
This is why all the talk about stopping Gronk, or whatever else people want to talk about just really doesn't matter. This game will come down to just one thing; can the Patriots stop both Lynch and Wilson?
I think the answer will be a resounding no, no they cannot.

My feelings exactly. Everybody seems fixated on our defense stopping Brady and Gronk, but IMO one of the unseen battles will be our ability to control the ball and control the clock. If we can be successful at least at moving the chains and kicking FG's, we'll stay in the game. I am very confident of this team's ability to "4th quarter" our opponents.

Old but Slow wrote:Zorny, I usually agree with you totally, but this time I have a minor quibble. You say that Wilson should use his legs early, and I think he should do as he did against GB, handing the ball off continuously, until the DE forgets contain, and then run, probably late in the game. Throw the ball short and quick, run Marshawn, and be patient.

And, I like it when Russell makes the defensive linemen chase him around like a playground game of tag, because it will take their legs away late in the game. Get those big fatties running around, and then run the option to pick up first downs. Keep them winded and frustrated, then they will make mistakes and miss tackles, which all the better when the Beast Mode starts cranking.

Dang, I'm there already!

I hear ya, ObS. I'm speaking more to him running on passing downs when nothing is there unless, of course, he spots a wide open receiver/TE or has a good throwing lane that's worth a shot with only 1 defender to avoid.

Naturally, we can expect plenty of designed plays with him rushing the ball.

In2007 the New York Giants faced the 18-0 Patriots in the SB. Manning led a game winning drive in the final minutes famous for the David Tyree"Helmet catch"to win the game 17-14.He was named MVP. But shouldn't the story of that SB been defense? NE had raped the league and Brady had thrown 50 TD passes.Fast forward to Feb 2nd 2014. Russell throws for 225, 2 TD's and runs an offense that put up 27 points on its own. He rushed for 40 yards and never came close to turning it over and saved some DOA plays such as total line protection breakdowns and the potentially disastrous Lynch throwback play. Lynch was mostly ineffective although he had 2 huge contributions, the TD run and the huge run to get us out of jail on the 8 yard line. But how could you give the MVP to Smith instead of Chancellor? or maybe Avril? The whole D was sick but Wilson steadily moving the ball and putting up points was the biggest factor in the win. He should have been MVP. Hopefully he throws for 300 and rushes for 100 and Lynch goes off for 200 and they have to split the MVP. Either way, RW got jobbed last year.

Zorn76 wrote: I'm speaking more to him running on passing downs when nothing is there unless, of course, he spots a wide open receiver/TE or has a good throwing lane that's worth a shot with only 1 defender to avoid.

Naturally, we can expect plenty of designed plays with him rushing the ball.

You know, I actually have to disagree somewhat with OBS, and agree more with the way you worded your first post. I get what he's saying, but honestly, I thought they waited too long last game to break out the read option stuff. They ran read option plays just seven times the first three plus quarters, then in the last like 7 minutes or so, 8 times they ran the read option, and it worked, like it always works against Green Bay.
(Remember Kaepernick tearing them up running all over them?)
I think that the read option, which the Pats haven't faced one time this year, is something they should get on from the get go.

Great point, monkey.

Belichick is very thorough in terms of his x's and o's preparation, and the Seahawks are not fancy scheme wise on either side of the ball.

What he can't always predict, though, is when we'll be running certain plays. I'm sure he's studied our tendencies for the entire season and playoffs. But I suspect that we'll be able to counter that somehow, and having RW run early could, if nothing else, get into their defense's head a little.

Bevell has drawn up some good game plans this year. They key is obviously to stick with what got us there (running), along with some well timed passing plays that may be new specifically for this game.

I think RW's last outing was really an anomaly, and that he'll be his usual careful self with the ball this Sunday. I just hope - like I mentioned before - that he takes a lane and runs to get a positive play out of any given down, rather than feeling like he has to make a big play down field throwing.

I also learned earlier (sorry, no link) that the Patriot's themselves have had their own difficulties covering opposing TE's. Luke Wilson is really an x-factor for Sunday. I'm also hoping that we get Lockette involved early, seeing how Baldwin and Kearse will likely be drawing the most attention (and tight coverage) from Browner (who can be beat) and Revis. D.R. is still good, but that island has eroded some over the years, and I think our guys will be able to find their open spots on key downs.

The huge option Seattle has is that both our skill people in the backfield are capable of beating good defensive schemes with elusiveness and breaking tackles.I'm sure Bellichick will scheme well so we have to make plays.
I agree Willson could be huge. Helfet is healthy and so is Moeaki who is capable of a high level of play. I think it is an advantage for Seattle that they dont have a go to reciever as much as spreading the ball to whoever is open. Their offense is unpredictable and often explosive.
I cannot wait for this game. Its fascinating

As Wilbonn said yesterday while refusing to make a pick"This is Ali/Frazier #1".