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Well it is out there with no doubt. Was there a motive by the coaching staff to deny Marshawn MVP of the Superbowl by making what turned out to be a disaster pass call on 2nd and goal in the Super Bowl?

Marshawn seems to imply there could have been.

Scroll ahead to 20:40 in this video.

http://www.ntvspor.net/video-galeri/nfl-yildizlari-ntv-spora-konuk-oldu

Yeah whatever, just like Chumley had an agenda for not giving Alexander the ball when he was left 1 yard shy of the 2004 rushing title or Ditka letting the Fridge get a rushing TD in the SB cause he was caught up in the headlines of it all and left Sweetness without his.

They're just bad calls, no ulterior motives.

c_hawkbob wrote:Yeah whatever, just like Chumley had an agenda for not giving Alexander the ball when he was left 1 yard shy of the 2004 rushing title or Ditka letting the Fridge get a rushing TD in the SB cause he was caught up in the headlines of it all and left Sweetness without his.

They're just bad calls, no ulterior motives.

I agree they were bad calls but we will never know if there were ulterior motives or not. But we can speculate due to circumstance.

That theory is just crazy to me. Anybody who has ever coached, or called plays in a game, knows there is no way you are thinking about that especially in the SB. There is no way a coach, in that situation, is sitting there thinking "man we've got this locked up, sure we haven't scored yet but we're on the 1 yard line I'm sure we're gonna. The only question is who do we want to win the MVP." Come on! In that situation you are doing exactly what Pete did. You are thinking about the clock, your thinking about matchups, your thinking about your best goal to go plays, and your thinking about matchups; what do they usually do in goal to go situations, where is our matchup advantage, in what ways can we take advantage of personnel groupings. You may disagree with the call but to think who would win the MVP was any part of that thought process is crazy.

I think whoever made that particular play call was filled with more than a little overconfidence, maybe even to the point of being reckless.
My question is did Pete or Bevell make that particular play call? Meaning did Pete actually name the play or did he just say something like we have to throw on this play and leave it to Bevell to choose which play to call?
I don't think we will ever know the answer if we don't know it now.

I think this is BS. Yes, it was a horrible high-risk play call to throw the ball; but it easily could have worked. And Marshawn could easily have scored on the previous play. The past month has been the toughest in Seahawk football history. Can't change the past - let's move on!

Assuming beast re-signs, Pete must call a team meeting to resolve this. If Marshawn and others on the team believe this was a conspiracy, then have another legion of brotherhood meeting to hash things out.

Why would they give him the ball at all inside the red zone if their motive was to deny him the MVP? As I recall, Beast nearly scored on the previous play. This conspiracy theory is as quacky as the fake moon landings. Although I'll bet that there was more than one NFL exec that was absolutely thrilled when Butler stepped in front of Lockette and made that pick. It would have been the league's worst nightmare come true to have Beast stroll to the podium and pick up the MVP trophy.

North, my understanding of how the play call evolved is that Pete was made aware that they were going to throw and agreed to it but that he was not in the loop on the specific play call, which I think is pretty normal unless there was a timeout. They only had about 10 seconds to make a decision, which didn't leave much time for equivocation.

One of the talking head shows showed a statistic that we actually do better passing then running from the 2 or 1 yard line. Something like 45% passing and 35% successful rushing. I don't see any issue with the pass, besides the point that on the play just before "that one".... Marshawn get the ball to the one. If there was a conspiriousy, why would the coaches give it to Marshawn on that play?
It was a bad football play, after the fact. Score a TD and it's the play of the year.

js

HONESTLY????

What coach in the ever-loving world would give a player the ball on first down, pray that he does not score, and then whisper in the headset....don't let Beast Mode score. DO NOT LET HIM be the face of our franchise. I mean, we would not want the face of our franchise to be the face of our franchise, would we?

I love the Beast as much as the next guy but he is really starting to hurt this team. He's almost 30 and just got offered 21 million bucks for 2 years, but instead he flies to Turkey during a critical decision-making time, grabs his cock for a photo shoot and insinuates that he did not get the ball because Pete and whoever else wanted RW to be in the lime-light. WHAT??I realize we are better with him, but he needs to realize that he is better with us (or did I miss his back to back super bowl trips with Buffalo??). You don't think the threat of RW running has anything to do with his success? I think we all know that RW's success is dependent on Marshawn's. What about the defense? Nobody here thinks that Marshawn is anything less than wonderful. I would not want another running back in the league, but WTH, man? Either be a team player or make up your mind so we can keep our 21 million and sign Suh or some other FA. No one person should hold a team hostage like this, especially when the front office is paying more than the market value for an RB his age because of what he has already given.

Assuming beast re-signs, Pete must call a team meeting to resolve this. If Marshawn and others on the team believe this was a conspiracy, then have another legion of brotherhood meeting to hash things out.

Exactly - Earl insinuated that there was some sort of ruse here too. I think this rub, the RW is not black enough and is in cahoots with the management thinking rub, was part of our slow start last year. While we all attributed it to injuries, the come to Jesus LOB meeting after the KC game got the team back on track. Now, with the way the season ended and Marshawn taking his selfish sweet time signing the BEST contract going for an RB.........we could start the season with the tensions that we had last year, but perhaps worse. With all of this talent and such a short window, it's a DAMNED shame.

http://now.nfl.com/play/9652ad89-8f49-4 ... moon_lynch

I get why people would suspect intent, but when New England came out in goal line defense, and we had three receivers on the field, it really makes sense that they went to a pass play on that down.
The actual pass play itself I dislike and will maintain was stupid till I die, BUT the idea of going pass there makes perfect sense.

I have a very hard time believing there was anything but a desire to win in that call.

I still don't see the risk or the issue with the call. How many balls have you seen picked from a pass attempted from the 1? Can't even remember a single one prior to that play, and out of 108 pass attempts from the 1 yd line in the 2014 regular season not one was picked. I think there was about 0% risk.

The other point is, the man throwing it is your franchise QB, whom to a man everyone on this board has signed off on his decision making, calmness, poise in the clutch and potential HOF credentials. Which is why it utterly baffles me how or why people would take issue with the coach allowing him to throw. Just seems very contradictory, to me.

Play call was fine. Result sucked. Best way to put it.

Lynch might have hung himself on this one. Purposely or not..... you just don't say that if you want to continue playing for the team.

IMO he has one foot out the door.

I watched it, and find it rather entertaining ... it's kind of fun considering these guys fly all the way to Turkey to do an interview. While some could twist what Marshawn says around (as the U.S. media is doing), he says what he thinks. And what he thinks, to me seems real and also gives credit to the team he's a part of (I liked how he said the pass play had worked before and he had a lot of confidence in the other guys pulling it off).

Was there some bit of influence on the coaches that they'd prefer to see RW rather than Marshawn making the play when the pass play was called? Perhaps there was some small measure of it, although I doubt it. Regardless, I think its ridiculous to believe it was a driving factor. If you watch the mic'd up replay of the playcall, any such influence would have had to been subliminal, because you can hear Pete voice the logic train they were operating under. Namely, driving down the playclock so we didn't give Tom Brady 30 seconds with two time outs (not voiced by PC on the mic'd up part), and then seeing they had their defense set for the run (voiced) he calls up to Bevell and says he thinks this is where they pass (voice). If you look into their logic train, it makes perfect sense why they went with the call they did: 1) it has worked well in the past; 2) NE is set for a goal line stand, and this is not an area we've been particularly good at; 3) if it doesn't work and the ball goes to the ground, it stops the clock, leaving time for two plays - whether run or pass. Also, as someone else pointed out, Marshawn was the first guy we went to after Kearse's catch. I believe the predominant factor in PC and DB calling the play they did was they thought - in the short flurry of time they had to make the decision - was their desire to win the game, regardless of who made the TD.

If there was any bit of influence of wanting Wilson over Lynch to score, it doesn't bother me. Why? Because all of us are human, and because it was not the driving factor behind the play-call. The call was a good call (not the best in my mind, because I wish DB would've run RW on a design play at least once during the game, and that was a prime opportunity). The outcome was absolutely awful ... but that's football. That's life. That's why I love this game.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

The problem with that call is they took the best traits of their best player away from him and quickly threw inside to a WR who is a speed guy instead of a proven inside pass catcher.
The better pass play in my mind would be to have Wilson roll out. This would have taken more time off the clock, given him a chance to put pressure on the edge defenders and then run it in, pass it to an open receiver, or throw it away.

The quick pass took away Wilson's advantages - creativity, athleticism, and pressuring the Defense into creating an opening.

The real issue here isn't whether or not it was a good call, it's that somewhere in Marshawn's head he thinks he may have been shafted by the coaches. If he believes that and enough of the team agrees then there is a real problem. The pros and cons of the actual call are irrelevant at this point.

^^^^ Exactly. The call has been debated and debated and this is by no means an extension of that debate. It is an entirely new discussion about what Marshawn really thinks. Not haven spoken with him directly, I cannot say for sure, but I infer from his comments that he believes there may have been some thinking going into the play call to shift the shine of the brightest lights on someone other than him. He "could have" also been trying to communicate that him winning the MVP was likely NOT want the NFL wanted after his crotch-grabbing and refusal to talk to the media (and when he did, he went the "I'm just here so I won't get fined" route). Maybe he just meant that.......if he did, I can understand that sentiment.

Also, too many people are sticking up for his words saying that he should want the ball etc. EVERYONE AGREES! Nobody here is concerned that Marshawn was surprised he did not get the ball, nobody is upset that he thinks he would have won the SB for us and become MVP. The concern is subtext of what he is saying.

If he believes that this team (coaches specifically - RW and others indirectly) wanted to take the spotlight from him so that our less black, goodie boy QB could get all of the credit, there are some deeply seeded issues that need to be addressed and addressed quickly. This is NOT about calling "the play" - 'tis about the potential this has to disrupt team chemistry. For me, I take it a step further which I concede may not be fair. But damn it, Marshawn has this team by the short and curlies and seems content to remain un-extended with no commitment to return as we enter the FA market. Could we keep Maxi?? Sign Suh? How about Murray or one of the big TEs? We would totally approach FA differently were Beast Mode locked down and would somebody else (maybe a few somebodies) if Marshawn's 21 million were available for the taking? He says he is a team guy, but he is treated wit kid gloves and this off-season seems to be a bigger chasm than last, perhaps exacerbated by he play call.

But please, please please quit talking about the validity of the call.

It could also be a ploy to extract more money.
He may not exude that kind of savvy, but he has proven to be pretty sharp in his dealings to date.

The validity of the call as a football play is also pertinent in trying to determine if Marshawn was truly discriminated against. If it was an invalid play, then the notion that he was intentionally avoided gains more credibility. It could be a completely separate topic, but the validity of the call could be an important piece in assessing something beyond football, and as such - deserves attention as part of any deep-dive into Marshawn's comments. My point was that in the play being a valid one, I find the prospect of Marshawn being intentionally avoided less likely.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

They decided on a pass play.
That in itself means his likelihood of being the receiver is lessened even though he has fairly good hands.
I don't remember who was on the field, but there were probably 3 receivers and a TE, so the potential of a pass play to him would be 20% if you go on how many players could legally catch the ball.

If they had decided on a run play with Wilson the ball carrier then the plot would get much thicker, but they didn't and the rest is history.

SalmonBB wrote:The validity of the call as a football play is also pertinent in trying to determine if Marshawn was truly discriminated against. If it was an invalid play, then the notion that he was intentionally avoided gains more credibility. It could be a completely separate topic, but the validity of the call could be an important piece in assessing something beyond football, and as such - deserves attention as part of any deep-dive into Marshawn's comments. My point was that in the play being a valid one, I find the prospect of Marshawn being intentionally avoided less likely.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

All due respect, I think it's an argument of semantics. The call was the call. We lost. Pete & Bev have endured a month of hell for the call and we had a painful thread w/ screen by screen analysis. The point is not the call; the point could be (not sure, but it seems so) that we have some locker room woes w/ a new delta that grows by wider by the day. Whether it was exacerbated by the call or not doesn't mean we should revisit the call itself. But I'm 110% in the camp of people who believe that Pete, John, Bevell and the entire team was there to try and win the game. No part of me thinks competitors at this level would risk a SB victory to shift credit. No part at all.

"I had no problem with the decision of the playcalling. I mean, you know ... I think it was more of a ... how do I say this? When you look at me, and you let me run that ball in ... I am the face of the nation. You know, MVP of the Super Bowl ... that's pretty much the face of the nation at that point of time. I don't know what went into that call. I mean, maybe it was a good thing that I didn't get the ball. I mean, you know, it cost us the Super Bowl. I mean, I have full ... I have full confidence in my teammates to execute that plan because we've done it so many more times. But would I love to had the ball in? Yes, I would have.


"But the game is over, and I am in Turkey."

The bold is what I didn't like. Stuff like that should be kept in house if you ask me.

Old but Slow wrote:He said he did not disagree with the call, he was just surprised by it. I don't see any problem with what he said. I am more concerned about the opinions of some of the other players, some of whom may buy the conspiracy theories, and that could lead to some dissension.

The way I read Lynch's remarks, he didn't come out and embrace the conspiracy theory but neither did he flat out denounce it the same way Robert Turbin did.

Pete does have some bridges to rebuild, especially since it seems that Bevell is staying and that before the season starts and that Russell is in all likelihood going to sign a humongous contract. There's a whole lot of smoke coming out of the locker room, the rumors earlier in the year that some players felt Russell wasn't 'black' enough, that he's too close to management, and now the conspiracy theory, and it's pretty evident that it's not one big happy family.

Lynch has handled himself just fine in this whole situation, amazingly well IMO. He said immediately after the game he did not have a problem with the call because it was a team sport. Its a position he basically repeated in Turkey.The conspiracy theory is really pretty ridiculous in hindsight and I think Lynch knows that.Any great player wants the ball. NE expected it too which is why they went heavy.
As for the actual play being a "mistake" the mistakes started before the play was called, wasting at least one timeout earlier in the drive. Then they chose to huddle after Lynches run to the one allowing New England to adjust their defense without burning a timeout of their own.
Ive watched the damn play a hundred times now.Great coaching by NE, terrible coaching by SEA, terrible execution by Kearse, Lockette and especially RW on the play and unbelievable execution by Butler and yes that Brandon Browner.And it was still a millisecond from being a TD.
For the love of God its time to look forward. We got beat fair and square.

Hawktawk wrote:Lynch has handled himself just fine in this whole situation, amazingly well IMO. He said immediately after the game he did not have a problem with the call because it was a team sport. Its a position he basically repeated in Turkey. The conspiracy theory is really pretty ridiculous in hindsight and I think Lynch knows that. Any great player wants the ball.

Here's the problem with what Lynch said:

"To be honest with you, I would be a liar if I didn’t tell you that I was expecting the ball,” Lynch said. “I think it was more of a — how do I say this? When you look at me, and you let me run that ball in, I’m the face of the nation. You know, the MVP of the Super Bowl, that’s pretty much the face of the nation at that point in time. I don’t know what went into that call. Maybe it was a good thing that I didn’t get the ball. I mean, you know, it cost us the Super Bowl.”

If Lynch did not believe in the conspiracy theory, then he would know exactly what went into that call as Pete has explained it publicly a number of times and I am quite sure that he's explained it privately to the team. Why else would he be wondering what went into the call if he didn't have doubts about Pete's explanation? And why would it be a "good thing" that he didn't get the ball and that it cost us the SB?

IMO the conspiracy theory is bogus and can be disproven almost beyond a shadow of a doubt. But it doesn't matter what any of us think of it. What matters is that there are some players on our team that at the very least have lingering doubts about the motivation behind the play call, and Lynch is one of those players. It gives credence to the rumors we heard about Lynch refusing to get on the bus after the Harvin trade, the "Russell Wilson isn't black enough" rumors, that he's too close to management, and so on.

At the very least, Lynch's remarks are confusing and open to interpretation and at worst, they are unsettling and deeply troubling. Are they just sour grapes from a great player that, like all great players, wanted the ball when the game was on the line and can be explained as nothing more than an irrational knee jerk reaction to a very emotional and devastating loss? Perhaps. But we're now over a month displaced from the SB and with the passage of time it's getting more and more difficult to rationalize them as simply "sour grapes".

All that crud got stirred up when the Hawks were 3-3 and they wound up a yard short of a Lombardi.
There is no team, business, widget factory etc NOWHERE that everyone sits around singing kumbaya and holding hands. There are cliques, people who like some more than others, coworkers who are Aholes etc. But sometimes its a result of a lot of strong willed people who are talented and help the organization get where it needs to go. Therefore the organization puts up with the bullshit. A 12 win average and back to back SB appearances in the last 3 seasons speaks to this being the situation here. I think Lynch will be back, pissed as ever and willing to ride into battle with "too white" Wilson.

Hawktawk wrote:All that crud got stirred up when the Hawks were 3-3 and they wound up a yard short of a Lombardi.
There is no team, business, widget factory etc NOWHERE that everyone sits around singing kumbaya and holding hands. There are cliques, people who like some more than others, coworkers who are Aholes etc. But sometimes its a result of a lot of strong willed people who are talented and help the organization get where it needs to go. Therefore the organization puts up with the bullshit. A 12 win average and back to back SB appearances in the last 3 seasons speaks to this being the situation here. I think Lynch will be back, pissed as ever and willing to ride into battle with "too white" Wilson.

What you say is true. But there are varying degrees of "that crud", and we really don't know how deep, if at all, it runs in the Seahawk locker room. None of us knew how bad things were a month before the Harvin trade when the team opened the season by beating the crap out of the Packers, but we found out when we had just about hit our low point of the season and they announced the trade. Winning curse all evils and losing brings out the worst in people. There's no telling if Beast's comments are nothing to worry about or if they are a fuse on a powder keg waiting for a 3 game losing streak before it blows up. Hopefully we'll keep winning so we don't have to find out.

I tell you what - if he would sign the offer and end this uncertainty nonsense, I wouldn't give a rip about what he says or doesn't say. In the end, as long as he's not a criminal or hurting the team, it is what happens on the field that matters most. BUT......... he has NOT signed his contract extension and has openly spoken about the possibility of retirement. His hold out (of sorts) is hurting this team and he has to know it. It's like the middle finger and a power grab and it is frustrating to watch, especially being such a fan of his.

His comments in Turkey just added lighter fluid to the uncertainty situation and have caused for speculation about why he has not signed. All of this serves as a distraction and complicates the FA period along with the draft. Most people believe he will sign and all will be well, but let's say - come august (after FA and the draft)... he decides he's had enough football. I realize I'm TOTALLY speculating, but the front office has to consider all possibilities over the next few months. They have to have a plan should Marshawn opt out.

Maximizing our available resources starting next week is important; knowing what the hell they are is important to be able to maximize them....IMHO.

He's currently under contract and he's not hurting the team at this early stage whether he signs a new deal or not.
If he still hasn't told them by draft day, then it becomes a different story.
I'm pretty sure John and Pete have a bunch of varying scenarios that will take them in different directions depending on what happens with Lynch.

My personal opinion is Lynch and Wilson are keys to our Offense and if either one doesn't play next year it will hurt us.
One of these years in the near future ML will retire, so my best guess is they are making plans for that day regardless of his decision.

NorthHawk wrote:He's currently under contract and he's not hurting the team at this early stage whether he signs a new deal or not.
If he still hasn't told them by draft day, then it becomes a different story.
I'm pretty sure John and Pete have a bunch of varying scenarios that will take them in different directions depending on what happens with Lynch.

My personal opinion is Lynch and Wilson are keys to our Offense and if either one doesn't play next year it will hurt us.
One of these years in the near future ML will retire, so my best guess is they are making plans for that day regardless of his decision.

He may not be hurting the team now, but if he continues with this indecision, then it's going to affect our ability to go after other free agents and may affect who we select in the draft.

If they are really considering Marshall and as some postulated in this forum Suh - they have more than enough room to move with or without Lynch.
Their plans for after Lynch just may have to be moved up if he decides to retire.
$10 million or so is a lot of money, but it's really only around 7% of the entire Cap room.

Marshawn's salary figures, should he opt to move back to Oakland sooner rather than later, would go a looooong way to signing FAs. 7% is a lot when we have to have 53 dudes on our payroll. His cap hit, if guesses are correct will be about 6.5 mil this year (even though his salary is projected to be around 11 mil). Maybe we would target a low-priced (market for running backs is WAY down this year) replacement for him, maybe we could keep Maxi or go after this year's version of Michael Bennett. FA starts next week, so I totally disagree with your assessment that he is not hurting the team unless he remains silent until after the draft. I'd LOVE to be wrong on this.

Marshall, Suh, Andre Johnson - those are all big names over which fans get "name drunk." It's the Bennett and Avril type signings that have helped make us great. Either way, name your desire... an edge rusher, O-line shoring up, interior pressure/run-stopper, WR, TE, replacement RB, whatever. Marshawn is the first domino that should fall.

I think Lynch is a big enough stud hes worth waiting a little longer for. That being said I highly doubt Carroll and Schneider are sitting around on their hands. The wheels are always turning with those dudes, I dont doubt they have drawn their line in the sand of a time frame from which they move on. They have offered Lynch an unbelievable number for a guy his age and with his style of play. It isn't going to get left on the table much longer.
I hope to God hes back. Its a shift in opinion for me but I think the odds of getting back are greater with him on the field.One thing we know the dude brings it no matter how he is feeling about things.

Marshawn is not a free agent though Sis. We move forward with him as a member of the team considering retirement, not going to a different team. We've offered a sweetener to coax him into returning, but it's not like he's holding out ...

I really don't see how he can be a domino either, we've got x amount of dollars earmarked for the running back position, whether it be Beast or whoever we have to replace him with. I don't see how that effects anything we do at other positions.

I think he is a huge stud and totally worth the wait. I'm only saying that it frustrates me. We could, perhaps, do more if we knew more.

We saw with the selection of Michael that they have been looking down the road for the inevitable day ML retires so I have no doubts they have a plan for just about any way he decides or when he makes that decision.

It's all good now Sis

OH THANK GOD! I take back everything I said. Carry on.

OH THANK GOD! I take back everything I said. Carry on.

NorthHawk wrote:We saw with the selection of Michael that they have been looking down the road for the inevitable day ML retires so I have no doubts they have a plan for just about any way he decides or when he makes that decision.

I can't imagine them thinking Michael is Beast's heir apparent if he doesn't even suit up for half the games. He's had two years to beat out Turbin for the #2 spot.

I wasn't suggesting Michael is the answer to replace Marshawn, rather that they are being proactive with that position and its future. That he hasn't worked out like we had hoped means they might have missed on that pick, but they did address a possible need.