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by **Hawk Sista** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:10 pm

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... tyba-rubin

by **RiverDog** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:48 pm

It's not really "beefing up." He replaces Kevin Williams, who was a real force inside. Not sure if his upside is equal to what Williams gave us. He'll be a good rotational guy to spell Mebane, though.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:14 pm

Considering Rubin is near his prime at 28/29 and Williams is on the downside at 34/35, I think this might be an upgrade.
He played NT in Cleveland, so he's a big guy who is used to being double teamed and shows some ability to push the pocket when not.
I'm thinking this is a net positive and if he's teamed with Hill or Bennett then one of them will have to get special attention if he's in on pass plays.
He's also one of those guys with a high motor who gives 100% effort on every play.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:10 am

RiverDog wrote:It's not really "beefing up." He replaces Kevin Williams, who was a real force inside. Not sure if his upside is equal to what Williams gave us. He'll be a good rotational guy to spell Mebane, though.

Rubin's about 15 lbs heavier and 6 years younger and is more athletic. If you think Williams is a better player you must be going off of 2014 when Rubin was playing with injuries and missed those years he was making 80+ tackles (80 is huge for a DT).

We 'beefed up literally and figuratively. Williams is a good rotational player, but Rubin's an upgrade.

by **savvyman** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:01 am

The Walrus - who spent a little time in Cleveland - gives a thumbs up to the signing.

https://twitter.com/Curtis_Crabtree/status/578693016476475392

And another take:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12516780/seattle-seahawks-defensive-tackle-ahtyba-rubin-agree-one-year-deal

by **Hawk Sista** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:12 pm

Thanks for that, Bob.

One has to wonder if he's the plan to replace Williams, or Bane. I'm not sure the team is going to carry the latter's 5.5 million dollar price tag. Maybe they will, but I think this move may incentivize Brandon to renegotiate his deal. I sure hope Mebane & Rubin are on the same team in 2015.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:34 pm

My pleasure Sis, it's an honor having your back. Easy too!, you bein' right and all

As for your further ruminations: Rubin as a replacement for Williams is a better fit but his presence does make holding a line on Mebane's negotiation more comfortable. The true upgrade is less a player for player thing than it is an upgrade to our D-line rotation. If the rotation is strong enough replacing Brandon (if he does leave) is a less daunting prospect.

by **Zorn76** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:11 pm

This signing may not make big waves around the league, but I think this is gonna be a Huge deal for us.

Rubin has a high motor and prides himself on his effort.

He's also gonna get a Big second wind coming from an NFL wasteland to play for a Seahawks team that could, yet again, be playing in a Super Bowl next year.

by **obiken** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:56 pm

With him and Red Bryant, Mebane, and Hill, we are stacked at DT.

by **Hawk Sista** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:08 pm

Did we re-sign Red?

by **Hawk Sista** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:26 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:My pleasure Sis, it's an honor having your back. Easy too!, you bein' right and all

As for your further ruminations: Rubin as a replacement for Williams is a better fit but his presence does make holding a line on Mebane's negotiation more comfortable. The true upgrade is less a player for player thing than it is an upgrade to our D-line rotation. If the rotation is strong enough replacing Brandon (if he does leave) is a less daunting prospect.

Right, Bob. I agree - Good points. I keep hearing that Brandon needs to restructure or he's gone... Not sure how accurate that is. I've always really liked him, though we showed we can win w/o him as we went on our big run sans Mebane. Still, I think we are better w/ him in the rotation then w/o.

I was really staring to fall for Hill when he was injured. I hope like hell comes back healthy w/ a year of experience and is ready to go. I hope too that Rubin works out, Mebane stays, Bennett is happy, & the trenches are fortified. I know... Duh, huh?

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:46 pm

I read a comment from Hill a few weeks ago where he was saying if the SB was that day, he thought he could play so his health looks to be on schedule.
He was becoming a real problem for opposing OLs when he got hurt. Rubin could only enhance Hill's play when on the field together as he can get some push inside as well when playing DT as opposed to NT where he was often double teamed. The rotation should keep both fresh as well.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:36 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Rubin's about 15 lbs heavier and 6 years younger and is more athletic. If you think Williams is a better player you must be going off of 2014 when Rubin was playing with injuries and missed those years he was making 80+ tackles (80 is huge for a DT).

We 'beefed up literally and figuratively. Williams is a good rotational player, but Rubin's an upgrade.

You're making a big assumption that Rubin will shake off his 2014 season and return to his previous form. One always has to wonder why a team would let someone like Rubin go, especially the Browns, who have the most cap space of any team in the league and are under no pressure to cut payroll. Are they as confident that 2014 was an anomaly and that he'll make a full recovery as you appear to be?

Williams might have been a situational player before Mebane went down, but once he was called upon to fill in, he got a lot more snaps (38 vs. the Nines) and played very well. If Rubin stays healthy (a big 'if'') and replaces William's post Mebane contribution, I'll be ecstatic.

by **Hawk Sista** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:42 pm

I understand that he fits better in a 4/3 vs a 3/4 - which s what Clev. A moved to. Time will tell, this is considered to be a good mov by Hawks. )heard it on the radio. Again - time and production are our only measures

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:16 pm

RiverDog wrote:You're making a big assumption that Rubin will shake off his 2014 season and return to his previous form. One always has to wonder why a team would let someone like Rubin go, especially the Browns, who have the most cap space of any team in the league and are under no pressure to cut payroll. Are they as confident that 2014 was an anomaly and that he'll make a full recovery as you appear to be?

Williams might have been a situational player before Mebane went down, but once he was called upon to fill in, he got a lot more snaps (38 vs. the Nines) and played very well. If Rubin stays healthy (a big 'if'') and replaces William's post Mebane contribution, I'll be ecstatic.

I'm not making any assumptions at all, I'm flat out saying we got a better player, and virtually every metric for making such a determination supports that conclusion. I'm not going to type out an essay just now, but look for yourself at virtually every FA D-lineman evaluation:

Walter Football (DTs)

16 Ahtyba Rubin, NT, Browns. Age: 29.
28 Kevin Williams, DT, Seahawks. Age: 35

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2015DT.php

Sportrac (DTs)

Rubin 15
Williams 22

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ ... ve-tackle/

PFF (DL)

Rubin 6
Williams 16

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... gents-idp/

And that's just the Google search first page. There is no one, seemingly other than you, that doesn't see Rubin as the better player.

by **obiken** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:53 pm

River I don't think its that big of reach. With the help he has all he has to do is stop the run.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:54 pm

I am not saying that signing Rubin is a reach. IMO it is a very good move, a good risk. I'm just not convinced that Rubin will be able to stay healthy and be able to replace the contributions Kevin Williams gave us... assuming that Williams does not return. What concerns me the most is why a team ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league in total defense and under zero financial pressure would let a player like him walk. No one in here has answered that concern. All they've done is regurgitated a bunch of stats.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:39 pm

Seems obvious to me it's a system fit thing.

by **savvyman** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:44 pm

The story out of Cleveland seems to be that last year was a down year for Rubin Because:

1. Of an injury he was playing though
2. He was playing Nose Tackle in a 3-4 Defense and he is not a traditional Nose.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/3/19/8260947/ahtyba-rubin-signs-1-year-deal-with-seattle-seahawks

by **obiken** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:45 pm

Ok I see your point now Rivey!! I just think there is more upside.

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:08 pm

RiverDog wrote:I am not saying that signing Rubin is a reach. IMO it is a very good move, a good risk. I'm just not convinced that Rubin will be able to stay healthy and be able to replace the contributions Kevin Williams gave us... assuming that Williams does not return. What concerns me the most is why a team ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league in total defense and under zero financial pressure would let a player like him walk. No one in here has answered that concern. All they've done is regurgitated a bunch of stats.

Wasn't Williams seriously considering retirement last season, and only didn't because he wanted a shot at that ring? I'm not convinced Williams wants to play another year, so it makes it kind of moot. Add in the young DT's that were coming on towards the end of the season when Williams had to move to Mebanes spot, and I could see validity in allowing those guys more playing time ( which may or may not be at the level Williams provided).

I appreciated Williams, but I'm not entirely sure he can't be "replaced", lot of key cogs on that defense, and Williams would have been pretty far down that list IMHO. He wasn't even a starter, until Mebane went down ( Bennett, Mebane, McDaniel, Avril), he was a "rotation, depth" guy.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:39 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Wasn't Williams seriously considering retirement last season, and only didn't because he wanted a shot at that ring? I'm not convinced Williams wants to play another year, so it makes it kind of moot. Add in the young DT's that were coming on towards the end of the season when Williams had to move to Mebanes spot, and I could see validity in allowing those guys more playing time ( which may or may not be at the level Williams provided).

I appreciated Williams, but I'm not entirely sure he can't be "replaced", lot of key cogs on that defense, and Williams would have been pretty far down that list IMHO. He wasn't even a starter, until Mebane went down ( Bennett, Mebane, McDaniel, Avril), he was a "rotation, depth" guy.

I never said that Williams can't be replaced. I am just noting that he did step up quite well after Mebane went down. Counting the playoffs, we went 8-2 after Mebane went down and William's role was expanded. I'm also NOT saying he can't be replaced. I would be quite pleased if all Rubin did was duplicate what Williams did for us last season and gives us 20-25 snaps a game. I am also not discounting Rubin's possible upside. It's a good move to bring him in. I'm just not in Beef Mode (I know, bad joke).

by **c_hawkbob** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:58 pm

RiverDog wrote:I never said that Williams can't be replaced. I am just noting that he did step up quite well after Mebane went down. Counting the playoffs, we went 8-2 after Mebane went down and William's role was expanded. I'm also NOT saying he can't be replaced. I would be quite pleased if all Rubin did was duplicate what Williams did for us last season and gives us 20-25 snaps a game. I am also not discounting Rubin's possible upside. It's a good move to bring him in. I'm just not in Beef Mode (I know, bad joke).

Maybe that's how you see it, but it looked to me like you were just telling Sis how she was wrong for putting in the thread title that we were "beefing up" by adding Rubin.

That was incorrect in fact as we did, both literally and figuratively beef up our D-line with the addition (and that would be true whether Williams stays or goes). Sis wasn't wrong regardless of your opinion of the player Williams was for us.

by **Hawk Sista** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:56 pm

^^^ what Bob said. This was the exception I had with RD's original comments too. Maybe I'm a bit defensive these days, but it felt like I said "hey, we just beefed up our line" and RD said "did not, did not." Kevin was going to retire after the 2013 season and came to the Hawks for a shot at a ring after some convincing from JS and PC. Coming as close as he did, he may just decide to take the vet min. and try once again with a few snaps a game and while providing some depth. My understanding, however, was that he was NOT coming back (Schneider himself about said so on the radio a few weeks back). So adding anyone, despite their weight and acumen, is beefing us up. AND - it was the title of the article from wherever the heck I found it.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:23 pm

We're arguing over semantics. I like the signing. I just choose not to describe it as "beefing up."

by **monkey** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:10 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Rubin's about 15 lbs heavier and 6 years younger and is more athletic. If you think Williams is a better player you must be going off of 2014 when Rubin was playing with injuries and missed those years he was making 80+ tackles (80 is huge for a DT).

We 'beefed up literally and figuratively. Williams is a good rotational player, but Rubin's an upgrade.

Couldn't have said it better.
Go back a few years, to the Williams Wall hey-day and then I would agree with Riv, but at the moment, this is a clear upgrade, any way you want to slice it.
He's bigger, stronger, faster, younger, more athletic, in his prime, and flat out better than Williams is at this moment in time. Add to that, he's more natural to his position, Williams was moved to that spot, but it's not what he did in Minnesota, and not what comes naturally to him.

by **monkey** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:18 pm

RiverDog wrote:
You're making a big assumption that Rubin will shake off his 2014 season and return to his previous form. One always has to wonder why a team would let someone like Rubin go, especially the Browns, who have the most cap space of any team in the league and are under no pressure to cut payroll. Are they as confident that 2014 was an anomaly and that he'll make a full recovery as you appear to be?

Williams might have been a situational player before Mebane went down, but once he was called upon to fill in, he got a lot more snaps (38 vs. the Nines) and played very well. If Rubin stays healthy (a big 'if'') and replaces William's post Mebane contribution, I'll be ecstatic.

Riv, I'm just guessing here, and maybe I'm completely wrong but, you've never seen Rubin play have you?
I say that because, if you had, I doubt you'd be talking this way.
It's actually not a big "if" that Rubin stays healthy...he's a relatively healthy player throughout his career, pro and collegiate. It's even less of an "if" that he can effectively replace Williams.
He's entering his prime and is bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic, and better suited to the nose than Williams, who admittedly was a very good player for us last year, and a really good player ten plus years ago.

Riv, you seem to be playing the part of resident forum skeptic lately, a role I can appreciate, as during the days of Seahawks suckititude I myself played the role, but, this is really NOT one of those cases where even a healthy dose of skepticism is merited.
Rubin is just simply an upgrade over Williams...maybe not a really big one but he just is. The guy is two years removed from 80 tackles as a nose guard! Seriously look it up. He can play.
I really think your worry here is misplaced, though I understand where it's coming from.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:59 pm

monkey wrote:[Riv, I'm just guessing here, and maybe I'm completely wrong but, you've never seen Rubin play have you?
I say that because, if you had, I doubt you'd be talking this way.
It's actually not a big "if" that Rubin stays healthy...he's a relatively healthy player throughout his career, pro and collegiate. It's even less of an "if" that he can effectively replace Williams.
He's entering his prime and is bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic, and better suited to the nose than Williams, who admittedly was a very good player for us last year, and a really good player ten plus years ago.

Riv, you seem to be playing the part of resident forum skeptic lately, a role I can appreciate, as during the days of Seahawks suckititude I myself played the role, but, this is really NOT one of those cases where even a healthy dose of skepticism is merited.
Rubin is just simply an upgrade over Williams...maybe not a really big one but he just is. The guy is two years removed from 80 tackles as a nose guard! Seriously look it up. He can play.
I really think your worry here is misplaced, though I understand where it's coming from.

I've seen Rubin play. Not as often as some of the other NFC players simply because of my viewing habits, but I've definitely seen him. His previous play is not the issue. It is completely irrelevant to my argument. He was a very good player prior to the 2014 season.

My concern is what he's like now, not what he's done in the past. Why did the Browns let him walk? It's not as if they had financial reasons to let him go, nor do they not have space on a roster that finished in the bottom 1/3 of the league defensively. No one has answered that question. If the Browns, with the 24th or so ranked defense aren't wringing their hands after losing him, I don't know why I, as a fan of the #1 ranked defense, should be having an orgasm over his arrival.

by **monkey** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:43 pm

Fair enough, but please allow me a suggestion; I suggest that you remember the wise rule regarding the Browns, and that is, don't read too much into ANY decision the Browns make!
There is probably not a worse run franchise in football than the Browns, therefore, asking why they let him go is an exercise in futility.
They probably let him walk because they are incredibly stupid, really bad at football decisions, and have been for a long time.

by **obiken** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:50 am

The Jets, atleast the Browns have an owner committed to winning.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:18 am

monkey wrote:Fair enough, but please allow me a suggestion; I suggest that you remember the wise rule regarding the Browns, and that is, don't read too much into ANY decision the Browns make!
There is probably not a worse run franchise in football than the Browns, therefore, asking why they let him go is an exercise in futility.
They probably let him walk because they are incredibly stupid, really bad at football decisions, and have been for a long time.

Good point. I'll try to remember that rule.

by **monkey** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:44 pm

Well Riv, it looks like we may be looking at the best of possible situations unfolding on the line.
Rather than replacing Kevin Williams, it looks like Rubin may just be part of the rotation which will include Williams!
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/3/25/8290227/seahawks-steven-schilling-kevin-williams-demarcus-dobbs-free-agency

If the Seahawks are able to not only add Rubin (who I considered an upgrade as a replacement for the talented but aging Williams) but retain Williams as well...man that really would be a COUP!
With the guys we know are coming back, plus IR guys like Marsh and Dobbs...WOW!
This is shaping up to be an outstanding D Line, with only Mebane as a possible loss (if he doesn't take a pay cut when they ask him to, which I'd bet anything they will.)

by **RiverDog** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:42 am

monkey wrote:Well Riv, it looks like we may be looking at the best of possible situations unfolding on the line.
Rather than replacing Kevin Williams, it looks like Rubin may just be part of the rotation which will include Williams!
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/3/25/8290227/seahawks-steven-schilling-kevin-williams-demarcus-dobbs-free-agency

If the Seahawks are able to not only add Rubin (who I considered an upgrade as a replacement for the talented but aging Williams) but retain Williams as well...man that really would be a COUP!
With the guys we know are coming back, plus IR guys like Marsh and Dobbs...WOW!
This is shaping up to be an outstanding D Line, with only Mebane as a possible loss (if he doesn't take a pay cut when they ask him to, which I'd bet anything they will.)

Yes, Williams coming back would be very nice. He still has a lot of tread left and would be a nice insurance policy should the Browns be proven to have been onto something when they let Rubin walk. It puts some pressure on Mebane to take a pay cut and would remove DL from the draft wish list and allow us to concentrate on upgrading other areas, such as the offensive line.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:14 am

I thought I read the Browns are changing their Defensive scheme.
If so, and they are changing their DL philosophy, it means good talent will be cut.
It happens every year throughout the league.
As well, our team scouts and evaluators really know Defense and how a players skill sets can add to the mix without diminishing the whole.

by **Tommy Udo** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:46 am

The Rubin signing does nothing IMO. Adding Hardy would have been a huge impact and he would have had position flexibility like Bennett.

With no first round pick this year I expect to see a lot of OL and DL in the second through 4th.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:56 am

Tommy Udo wrote:The Rubin signing does nothing IMO. Adding Hardy would have been a huge impact and he would have had position flexibility like Bennett.

With no first round pick this year I expect to see a lot of OL and DL in the second through 4th.

Welcome to The Shack, Tommy!

It's almost a foregone conclusion that we'll be taking at least one OL in the upcoming draft. Not sure about DL's, though. We seem to be pretty set, assuming Marsh and Mebane bounce back from their injuries.

by **Tommy Udo** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:03 am

Thanks Riverdog, happy I stumbled upon this place!

The questions regarding health is the reason why I think they have to go after some more bodies on the DL. There should be some quality day 3 players available.

As far as OL goes I had already penciled in Cameron Erivng before the Jimmy Graham trade. Now I think there is no choice but to take the best available OT in the second round and I am betting that is Fisher.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:23 am

Tommy Udo wrote:Thanks Riverdog, happy I stumbled upon this place!

The questions regarding health is the reason why I think they have to go after some more bodies on the DL. There should be some quality day 3 players available.

As far as OL goes I had already penciled in Cameron Erivng before the Jimmy Graham trade. Now I think there is no choice but to take the best available OT in the second round and I am betting that is Fisher.

I'm glad you stumbled onto it, too. You seem like you know your football. The thing I like best about The Shack is that it is intimate enough to where you almost always get a response to a post. There's other forums out there that are so heavily trafficked that your comments tend to get lost in the mass of other posts.

Agreed about the health concerns on the DL, which is something us 12's don't know a lot about. If Mebane is healthy and takes a pay cut, if Marsh bounces back, if Jordan Hill comes back healthy, if Rubin returns to his 2013 form as some in here have suggested, and if Williams decides to play another season for us, I don't see the pressing need for adding more depth to the DL unless there's an opportunity to pick up a player that falls, which is a possibility at any position.

It's the OL that concerns me the most. We've lost two starters and right now the plan is to replace them with members off our current roster.

FYI I'm not much of a draftnik until a week or two prior to the draft, but others in here are. Due to work commitments, I don't get a chance to watch as much CFB as I would like.

by **Tommy Udo** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:50 am

RiverDog wrote:
Agreed about the health concerns on the DL, which is something us 12's don't know a lot about. If Mebane is healthy and takes a pay cut, if Marsh bounces back, if Jordan Hill comes back healthy, if Rubin returns to his 2013 form as some in here have suggested, and if Williams decides to play another season for us, I don't see the pressing need for adding more depth to the DL unless there's an opportunity to pick up a player that falls, which is a possibility at any position.

It's the OL that concerns me the most. We've lost two starters and right now the plan is to replace them with members off our current roster.

FYI I'm not much of a draftnik until a week or two prior to the draft, but others in here are. Due to work commitments, I don't get a chance to watch as much CFB as I would like.

There is a lot of 'IF' in your post but I do see where you are coming from.

And I agree on the OL which is why I believe they have to go that direction almost immediately in this draft.

There will be some day 3 receiving talent available as well and I would think they would like to add at least one potential weapon for Russell.

Do you think Christine Michael will see the field more this season or is Pete Carroll leaning towards being committed to Robert Turbin?

by **c_hawkbob** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:32 am

Tommy Udo wrote:The Rubin signing does nothing IMO. Adding Hardy would have been a huge impact and he would have had position flexibility like Bennett.

With no first round pick this year I expect to see a lot of OL and DL in the second through 4th.

No idea how you could have reached that determination. A player addition doesn't have to be a blockbuster to have an impact. Fact is most of the player moves that Pete and John have made to get us to the point we are are now were of the no headline, strengthen the roster, position rotation types of moves. If you want blockbuster moves look at the Redskins and how well that works for them.

And Hardy was never a real consideration, strictly due diligence.

Anyway, Welcome to the Shack! Happy to have another point of view!

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