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I couldn't help but mentally revisit XL throughout yesterday's game. Not so much afraid of ghosts as thinking about what could have been. Does this victory mean more because of '05? Does it mend the feelings of '05?

For me, time did not heal those wounds, but this victory sure helps.

Yes actually it does. I'll still always think of that game as a win we were robbed of, but that thought doesn't hurt anymore.

Yeah that still sucks but getting one helps a ton. Plus even though I really liked some aspects of the 05 team, this team was and is just way more fun to root for.

kalibane wrote:Yeah that still sucks but getting one helps a ton. Plus even though I really liked some aspects of the 05 team, this team was and is just way more fun to root for.

I have to agree. Holmgren's teams were notoriously Jekyl and Hyde-ish, and I'm speaking of more than just our SB run. We could look like a million bucks on one weekend then lose by 3 TD's the next. It was like Forest Gump's box of chocolates. I can't remember when this team lost by more than a touchdown. It's been over two full seasons. I haven't been supremely disappointed like I was in the Holmgren era. Even the loss to Atlanta last year wasn't as bad as some of those losses Holmgren's teams chalked up...like the MNF game vs. the Cowboys.

One of the things that irritated the hell out of me in the Holmgren era was dropped passes. Even though this team commits more penalties, Holmgren's team led the world in dropped passes.

So yes, no question. This team is way more fun to follow.

I always HATED how Mike Holmgren called football games. I would actually yell at the screen, telling the Walrus that even a 6-year old could call his plays. No tricks, no imagination, no going against common trends. If I saw one more 3rd and 1, or 4th and 1 missed I was going to kill myself.

Last night, even in the biggest game of the franchise, Carroll dialed up a flea flicker........did it work? Nope.....did it make the defense think twice and widen the field.

Absolutely.

I hated watching Holmgren's brand of football.....hated, hated hated it

I just wish the '05 Defense was half as good as today's Defense.
Our '05 Offense was great and they could have won more if the Defense of the day was better.
I don't want to slag on the players, but the coaching and Defensive identity is much better now.

It doesn't really reduce the pain as we've endured almost a decade of snide comments like 'how many SBs have the Hawks won? and talk to me when you've won a SB since we last had a chance.

This team would have stomped that team as well as the Steelers.

RiverDog wrote: Even the loss to Atlanta last year wasn't as bad as some of those losses Holmgren's teams chalked up...

I was knocked on my emotional ass after the ATL loss last year until I heard Russell's post game comments about his optimism for what was in front of this team. His hopefulness came to pass.

I can't believe how much I am learning from a 25 yo about attitude and approach.

Long Time Fan wrote:

RiverDog wrote: Even the loss to Atlanta last year wasn't as bad as some of those losses Holmgren's teams chalked up...

I was knocked on my emotional ass after the ATL loss last year until I heard Russell's post game comments about his optimism for what was in front of this team. His hopefulness came to pass.

I can't believe how much I am learning from a 25 yo about attitude and approach.

I loved when Carroll owned the ATL loss last night, saying he "screwed it up" or we would have been here last year. As a fan I remember having a sense of paranoia when Ryan got the ball, yet a strange amount of peace when the game ended. Its like a lot of us i sensed the best was yet to come.

I'll never forget XL, the officiating was the main reason for that particular Hawks team losing to that particular Stealers team.As a finesse passing team that meticulously avoided penalties they couldn't handle the disruption of momentum, and their head coach imploded under the adverse circumstances.
Meanwhile a clearly inferior opponent was basically walked by the hand of the officials to an undeserved Lombardi.I will always hate the Stealers,, Bill Leavy, Dan Rooney, Jerome Bettis, Heinz Ward,and especially Ben Rapelburger Mr 22 rating. Oh and Bill flying spittle Cowface. OK did I forget anyone?

But this season has helped me to realize that this team is built in such a way they probably could have absorbed anything the officials threw at them and still won. Really, they did all year anyway as the most penalized team in the league. Holmgren was a very good coach with a very nice run here so we shouldn't be dumping on him. But this Carroll team is more like a Knox team on turbocharged setting. The biggest difference is we have the best QB in franchise history by a mile and he doesn't turn the ball over like the beloved Mud bone used to. If Knox had this guy and that punishing defense of his they would have won a couple super bowls.Kudos to PC and Schneider they reinvented the wheel, only better.

c_hawkbob wrote:Yes actually it does. I'll still always think of that game as a win we were robbed of, but that thought doesn't hurt anymore.

As usual, Bob summed it up perfectly for me.

Nope! The Hawks should be 2 time Super Bowl Champs.

Absolutely yes.

The pain of losing a SB isnt just from what you failed to win but also the fact that you don't know if you will live long enough to see them get another chance.

If an Angel came down from heaven and told us after XL that within 10 years we would win a super bowl, it wouldn't have hurt nearly as much.

Also, looking back, does anyone really think the 2005 team could go toe-to-toe with the 2013 hawks?

If the 2013 hawks played against the 2005 hawks I think it would have been an even bigger blowout than we had against Denver.

The Hawks didn't win a Super Bowl until we had a good/great team in all 3 phases of the game that no other team can match.

If our offense isn't working then we'll win with defense and special teams. If our defense has a brief lapse and are giving up points then we'll win it with our offense and special teams.


Honestly im glad we didn't win in 2005 now. I just feel as though 2013 was more special. If we had won in 2005 then Ruskell might still be the GM of the hawks because the Lombardi buys a lot of time.

Ruskell was never going to be able to build a team with sustained success. We were always going to have to rely on luck and homefield to win a super bowl. Now we are just focusing on being BETTER and if we get homefield advantage thats the cherry on top.

briwas101 wrote:Absolutely yes.

The pain of losing a SB isnt just from what you failed to win but also the fact that you don't know if you will live long enough to see them get another chance.

If an Angel came down from heaven and told us after XL that within 10 years we would win a super bowl, it wouldn't have hurt nearly as much.

Also, looking back, does anyone really think the 2005 team could go toe-to-toe with the 2013 hawks?

If the 2013 hawks played against the 2005 hawks I think it would have been an even bigger blowout than we had against Denver.

The Hawks didn't win a Super Bowl until we had a good/great team in all 3 phases of the game that no other team can match.

If our offense isn't working then we'll win with defense and special teams. If our defense has a brief lapse and are giving up points then we'll win it with our offense and special teams.

Honestly im glad we didn't win in 2005 now. I just feel as though 2013 was more special. If we had won in 2005 then Ruskell might still be the GM of the hawks because the Lombardi buys a lot of time.

Ruskell was never going to be able to build a team with sustained success. We were always going to have to rely on luck and homefield to win a super bowl. Now we are just focusing on being BETTER and if we get homefield advantage thats the cherry on top.

What?, glad we lost in 2005?

briwas101 wrote:Absolutely yes.

Honestly im glad we didn't win in 2005 now. I just feel as though 2013 was more special.

I can't fathom a die-hard Seahawks fan's saying that.

I quit lamenting XL the same year it happened.

I did, however, find myself thinking about Holmgren yesterday, and how deserving he was of being able to take home a Lombardi for Seattle. But as for the game itself, that's history I chose to leave behind, and it's seldom something that I give any thought to.

c_hawkbob wrote:Yes actually it does. I'll still always think of that game as a win we were robbed of, but that thought doesn't hurt anymore.

Yep, well said Bob.
While I still believe that we got jobbed a little, it doesn't bother me in the least now.
Now as a team, we've been to two Superbowls, and won one, which makes all the difference in perspective. Now instead of the one superbowl we were at feeling like a sore tooth, it feels like an accomplishment, something to be proud of. Because we won this one, we can now say, we've been to TWO Superbowls, and be proud of that first loss, because, at least we got there, and we all know hard and rare that is!
If we'd lost to Denver though, that first loss would likely be even more painful.

The perspective has changed for me completely.

kalibane wrote:Yeah that still sucks but getting one helps a ton. Plus even though I really liked some aspects of the 05 team, this team was and is just way more fun to root for.

This is exactly how I feel as well. The 05 team really was a lot of fun, and I really hoped we would win, but somehow, maybe because of the expectations on this 2013 team, or maybe because of all its colorful personalities, or because they went wire to wire as the NFL's BEST team, this was a MUCH more fun team to root f
or for me personally.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the 05 team (especially Big Walt!) but this team...man this team is so special.
This team would have mopped the floor with that 05 team, no offense to that team, but this team is just SO much better IMO.
This team HAS to be in the conversation for greatest ever Superbowl defense/Superbowl performance. To beat the greatest offense of ALL TIME the way they did...man...no words...
Special, special team, one I feel such a strong connection with, for reasons I can't even put into words. What an amazing win, amazing team!

The reason this team is more fun to me is aside from the running game behind Hutch and Walt that 2005 team was a reactive group. The 2013 team as Marshawn Lynch would say, is bout that action boss. This years team forces the action and wants to dominate. In all phases of he game, to a man almost, brings the fight to the opponent where as the 2005 team seemed to want to find a way around.

One thing that I think is kind of cool though (that I didn't realize) is that Marquand Manuel is an asst. coach on this team. I always believed that neither of Pitssburgh's two big plays would have occurred if he hadn't been hurt.

kalibane wrote:The reason this team is more fun to me is aside from the running game behind Hutch and Walt that 2005 team was a reactive group. The 2013 team as Marshawn Lynch would say, is bout that action boss. This years team forces the action and wants to dominate. In all phases of he game, to a man almost, brings the fight to the opponent where as the 2005 team seemed to want to find a way around.

One thing that I think is kind of cool though (that I didn't realize) is that Marquand Manuel is an asst. coach on this team. I always believed that neither of Pitssburgh's two big plays would have occurred if he hadn't been hurt.

True that. The Hawks SB defensive issues started with Hamlin getting his head beat in at mid season. I think Manuel was actually better but obviously there was no depth when he went down.

I'll also echo bob's sentiment that this erases the pain and the sentiment from pretty much everyone in the thread that it's not just the fact that they won, it's how they won. This is the most enjoyable team to root for in the history of the franchise.

It's funny, though, as appreciative as I am to Holmgren for what he did for this franchise, it wasn't him I was wishing was able to raise the trophy. It was our 3 HOF'ers, who were dedicated to the Hawks for their entire careers and deserved to get a ring.

Yes. There has been a vhs cassette of XL sitting in a vcr since 2005. I have neither touched or watched the tape or the ancient device ever since. Now I feel we have been vindicated so i will set both on fire.

05 still hurts. But not as much. Make up calls by the NFL are always a good thing and that is exactly what the refs did during SB XLVIII. They let the players play instead of trying to control the game and show their biases. I'll take it.
At any rate we deserved this SB win, probably as much as last time with the exception that our defense was not as good in 2005.

Eaglehawk wrote:05 still hurts. But not as much. Make up calls by the NFL are always a good thing and that is exactly what the refs did during SB XLVIII. They let the players play instead of trying to control the game and show their biases. I'll take it.
At any rate we deserved this SB win, probably as much as last time with the exception that our defense was not as good in 2005.

I was wrong about several things in this game, most notably the final score. But one thing I was dead on about was the officiating. They set a precedent early in the playoffs this season that they weren't going to make ticky tacky calls, and once they did that, given our experience in our only other SB, there was no way they were going to start tagging us with a lot of cheap flags. A prime example is a play against Earl Thomas in the first half. Had it been XL, Earl would have gotten called for DPI, but it was pretty close, almost incidental, so they kept their flags in their pockets.

RiverDog wrote:

Eaglehawk wrote:05 still hurts. But not as much. Make up calls by the NFL are always a good thing and that is exactly what the refs did during SB XLVIII. They let the players play instead of trying to control the game and show their biases. I'll take it.
At any rate we deserved this SB win, probably as much as last time with the exception that our defense was not as good in 2005.

I was wrong about several things in this game, most notably the final score. But one thing I was dead on about was the officiating. They set a precedent early in the playoffs this season that they weren't going to make ticky tacky calls, and once they did that, given our experience in our only other SB, there was no way they were going to start tagging us with a lot of cheap flags. A prime example is a play against Earl Thomas in the first half. Had it been XL, Earl would have gotten called for DPI, but it was pretty close, almost incidental, so they kept their flags in their pockets.

Agreed River,

I saw the same trend and was not worried as others on this forum about the refs throwing the game. At least not given what I saw in our first and second playoff game.
This was the year when they decided to let us play. And thank god for that! I hope they follow this in ALL Superbowls henceforth!

The close over under... I Knew Vegas set some Denver fans up. HAHA. I knew it. There is no way we should not have been favored to win the SB. But to be honest, the Broncos just blew out the Patriots, so I guess the over under was about right.
That says more about them than us.

To Answer the Thread Question:

No.

Actually Riverdog, I think Earl should have been flagged there, and so did Earl! Go back and look at his expression, he had that, oh crap, I just made a mistake and am about to get flagged look, and then when the flag didn't come, he looked surprised briefly.

That's OK though, it was easily offset by an offensive PI that didn't get called on a push off against Richard Sherman.
Truth be told, I though that aside from a couple calls, that was a VERY well called game!!
Kudos to the officials, who mostly got it right, and when they didn't, it didn't affect the play on the field much, and who let them play!

No, as coach Red Bayou says in the Waterboy, the only thing better than a crawfish dinner... is two crawfish dinners... I am not one that blames the refs for that debacle ( not saying I give them a pass either) but that said, I was PISSED that the game never reached a watchable "flow", there was never a "building" of excitement the ENTIRE game ( and yeah that included Steelers fans, of which I know several) it was the perhaps WORST SB in history to watch, and that is something I refuse to ever put away. They took what was at that point a "crowning achievement" for BOTH teams fans a crapped all over it. So NO...

monkey wrote:Actually Riverdog, I think Earl should have been flagged there, and so did Earl! Go back and look at his expression, he had that, oh crap, I just made a mistake and am about to get flagged look, and then when the flag didn't come, he looked surprised briefly.

That's OK though, it was easily offset by an offensive PI that didn't get called on a push off against Richard Sherman.
Truth be told, I though that aside from a couple calls, that was a VERY well called game!!
Kudos to the officials, who mostly got it right, and when they didn't, it didn't affect the play on the field much, and who let them play!

Agreed on both your points, ie Earl and Sherman PI no calls. 90% of the time, they'll throw the flag on those plays. They are two examples of what I felt was the refs being told not to throw the flag unless it was blatant, like the PI call against Tate in the end zone was. They had to throw the flag on that play as the defender made contact w/o looking for the ball.

Long Time Fan wrote:I couldn't help but mentally revisit XL throughout yesterday's game. Not so much afraid of ghosts as thinking about what could have been. Does this victory mean more because of '05? Does it mend the feelings of '05?

For me, time did not heal those wounds, but this victory sure helps.

For myself, I would have to say "yes". It does reduce the feeling to extra small, but it will always be there.

I just wanted to see one, and I now have it, so no looking back at the past now of what could have been.

Full speed ahead, and hoping a #2 comes somewhere down the line.

Agent 86 wrote:

Long Time Fan wrote:I couldn't help but mentally revisit XL throughout yesterday's game. Not so much afraid of ghosts as thinking about what could have been. Does this victory mean more because of '05? Does it mend the feelings of '05?

For me, time did not heal those wounds, but this victory sure helps.

For myself, I would have to say "yes". It does reduce the feeling to extra small, but it will always be there.

I just wanted to see one, and I now have it, so no looking back at the past now of what could have been.

Full speed ahead, and hoping a #2 comes somewhere down the line.

You have no idea how much I think your point is so important. The Packers won the SB and the next year they go 15 and 1 and lose to the Giants who would win the SB. Basically, its really hard to go back to back. Really hard. But its possible. Our window of opportunity is open now, in another year that window will begin to close slowly depending on how PC can keep everyone motivated to press on. And practice at a high level.

Eaglehawk wrote:. Our window of opportunity is open now, in another year that window will begin to close slowly depending on how PC can keep everyone motivated to press on. And practice at a high level.

The funny thing is that us fans remember and still to a degree harbor pain from 05; whereas these players and coaches of today have an awareness of the franchises first SB going unfulfilled, without harboring any of the pain. The only "management" that knows what we know and feels what we feel from the 05 debacle is Paul Allen.

Going forward we couldn't have a better coach focused on building additional championship layers. PC did just that at USC. PC's fire for winning burns on. Wilson is not a one and doner. Who wants to bet that Wilson gets back to work this every week preparing for next season. We are in good hands.

It totally exercises me from those demons. In fact, I use the Ref calls in 40 as ammo against Niner fans who cry conspiracy.
This was kind of team that I always wanted. This why I usually flipped out on draft day; we would end up with Holmy projects that couldn't hit. We have a rock hard defense and a beast RB. We have a QB in RW that never turns over the ball with bad throws, unlike Dave Krieg, who was a turnover machine.
We could use a fast great WR or another good OL, but we are set for 2 years, barring injury.


obi

For those of you who still have XL stuck in your craw, might I suggest thinking about it this way. If that team wins the Superbowl Holmgren and more importantly, Ruskell both stick around a lot longer we never get Pete Caroll, and thus never get this team we all enjoy so much. I'll trade that loss for this team any day of the week.

kalibane wrote:For those of you who still have XL stuck in your craw, might I suggest thinking about it this way. If that team wins the Superbowl Holmgren and more importantly, Ruskell both stick around a lot longer we never get Pete Caroll, and thus never get this team we all enjoy so much. I'll trade that loss for this team any day of the week.

Excellent point Kalibane. I would add that this team is 100 times tougher mentally and would have had a much better chance of winning that game regardless of the fact that the refs were totally biased. These guys did it all year anyway......


On the flip side the 2005 team indeed got screwed royally and were a very competitive playoff team for the next 2 seasons. So playing the what if game, if the Hawks had won does Hutch leave? Do they rip off 3 in a row? Are top FA's tripping over themselves to come play in Seattle? You just never know.

I think we should have 2 right now.I do like this team better though.

IMO I think things get a lot darker for the Hawks if they win that Super Bowl. We still lose Hutch because it was Ruskell's policy of not discussing contracts during the season that pissed Hutch off in the first place and Ruskell's decision to transition tag him instead of franchising him as Holmgren wanted.

Worse yet winning the Superbowl validate's Ruskell's method of building a team, small, high effort, high character guys over athletes and we get more and more mediocre players. I think it would have been a disaster.

Interesting theory, Kal, and one that I've never considered (or read) until now.

For myself, I knew that I had to get over the other SB, asap, and just move on from it. I loved coach Mike, and still feel he was worthy of being a Champ in Seattle.

But, well, you know, it just didn't turn out that way. And now we have a much stronger F.O. in place, with a 62 yr old kid as a coach:) I'm just glad the Seahawks are Super Bowl Champions. It keeps hitting me everyday. We won. And we won in such a convincing fashion that it's up there with the all time dominating performances with a title at stake.

That's what makes this so much more rewarding. We're in That discussion. The city, franchise, players and The 12th Man all deserve this. It's such a gift to see it happen, and I'm happy for us all.