Defensive end out of Missouri looks draftable btw he is gay.

[Long Time Fan]

Michael Sam. I hope that he is successful. He looks like a good player. If he drops to our 3rd round slot, I hope the Seahawks draft him. This locker room is a candidate for acceptance for him.

[Seahawks4Ever]

He is 6' tall and probably won't be a DE in the NFL. They says he projects as a LB. He is also expected to be long gone by the time we draft at #32. He is expected to be a mid round #1 pick.

Several NFL players have already came out and said that the only thing they care about is whether he can help their team win a championship. We will see if he drops out of the first round or farther, hopefully not in this day and age.

[Long Time Fan]

I've seen nothing suggesting that Sam is first round talent. A week ago he was thought to be a 3rd rounder, but the "tweener" concerns and potentially his declaration have him dropping.

These tweeners are a real risk (see the Bruce Irvin thread). I would think that he becomes a value pick for some team with the stones to look at his football skills. Every draft has its "honeybadger", a player who's stock drops for off the field issues. I don't think the NFL has dudes as a banned substance.

[Oly]

I read somewhere that before the announcement he was considered a mid round pick because of his size and the fact that his sacks came against lesser competition. He doesn't seem like the kind of freak athlete that this FO likes on defense, so I'd be surprised to see him here.

I might be cheering for him a little more, just to balance out the fact that he'll also be on the receiving end of more negativity. If the FO decides he fits, I think this would be a great landing place because of the city and the strong leadership from the coach, but in the end I'm just not sure he's a good for this team as a player.

[FolkCrusader]

I think most ranking have him just outside of the top 10 DE's, so likely going mid-rounds. The combine will affect him as his size (6' 2" 255) is not ideal. If he runs at 260 for instance, it could help him greatly. He was a 4.6 guy coming out of HS, if he runs 4.7s someone is certainly going to want him. He does have some natural skills so we'll see.

As much as one would hate to admit some teams will take him off their board due to his announcement. This is not to say teams are homophobic, some would say it's due to the possible distraction. Others may say it would be too hard on their locker room. Both of those things could be valid arguments considering he is likely a back up/special teams player his first year or two.

I think the kid did handle this the right way. Obviously he felt it necessary last summer to come out to his team. That was handled with minimal distraction and the team clearly respected it. I think he thought it through and realized he would want to come out to whatever pro team choose him as well, but of course at that point the die is cast. By doing it now he accomplishes two things. One, it is done at the time and in the way of his choosing. Two, it allows any team or locker room that does not want him due to his sexuality plenty of time to take him off their board. Teams that do consider selecting him can run it past their captains and locker room leaders and determine if they are willing to make it work. He is much more likely to walk in to a welcome environment this way, or at least as welcome as any rookie gets it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt there are more than a few gay men currently playing pro football. I think teams and players deal with this professionally. This is different in that by coming out publicly it does invite a lot more commentary from media and fans.

As far as the Seahawks go. I don't see where he would fit on the team necessarily. Possibly a depth guy for leo, but we have a ton of those. I do think this is one of the locker rooms that could and would handle the situation like professionals.

[c_hawkbob]

Everybody on his team knew.

Everybody at his school knew.

Most of the people in town knew and I find it quite interesting (and a testament to how the kid handles the situation) that to all these people it was a non-issue. It's even more significant that none of these people "outed" him.

It's news now cause it's new information. In very short order it'll be a non-issue for the rest of us.

[kalibane]

Very good succint and appropriate post Bob. Couldn't have said it better in 2000 words myself. lol

Outside of what you said. My only thoughts on the kid were this. He's about the same size as Melvin Ingram If he can play he'll make it in the NFL. If he has any great skill that can be put to use can you think of any locker room that is a more likely landing spot than Pete Carroll's?

[Oly]

Everybody on his team knew.

Everybody at his school knew.

Most of the people in town knew and I find it quite interesting (and a testament to how the kid handles the situation) that to all these people it was a non-issue. It's even more significant that none of these people "outed" him.

It's news now cause it's new information. In very short order it'll be a non-issue for the rest of us.

Nothing more to be said.

[Distant Relative]

I bet the 9er's pick him up in the 9th round.

Easy guys and gals, just playing around.

I have no problem with peoples sexual preferences, how ever, what I don't care for for is people shoving it in your face, just like certain religions.

Not saying the kid did here, hope he is successful and all that but he will have a bumpy road as this is relatively new territory for the NFL.

It will be interesting to see what transpires with this situation. Just because some fans will accept it with open arms, some players may not.

[Hawktawk]

Okay time for a little redneck perspective here. #1 one of Sams Missouri teammates has stated today in the social media that the locker room wasn't nearly as united as Sam makes everyone believe it was. #2 I don't respect this guy for trying to become some sort of transcendentalist type of figure.I really could care less about his or anyone's sexual preference or lifestyle. It seems ironic to me that Tebow got tarred and feathered for loving God and preaching abstinence and the rights of the unborn. Sherman was vilified for professing to be the best CB in the game. And we are supposed to fall all over this guy because he says he likes dudes? I don't want to hear about sex, whether its this attention hound or Jonathan and Ritchie's bawdy texts. Its a game. I'm sick of watching the NFL become some sort of a vehicle for social engineering. You want to be with a man? Just do it, don't hold a damn press conference.

#3And no I don't want our loaded repeat ready Seahawks drafting this guy. Talk about a media circus.He couldn't crack this lineup anyway.........

OK let the stereotypical labeling begin, I'm going to go watch some Duck Dynasty:-) Just kidding it will be sound FX.

[NorthHawk]

I think he was honorable in divulging this before he was drafted. At least all of the teams now have time to digest it and decide if they want what comes with it.

I believe he will do best in a situation with a mature and successful Defense. In a situation where the team is still learning how to win, the distractions could set them back, but a proven team could handle it if his skills add to their ability to compete.

[savvyman]

I think it is pretty easy to speculate how this will "turn out".

Sam was projected as third - fourth round pick before the news.

Now we know that he will not rise in the draft because of the news (i.e. Some team saying - "We had planned on taking Sam in the third round - but since we found out he is Gay we took him in the second round....")

Now the question is - How far in the draft will Sam fall because of the news of his being Gay? - I would imagine not too far - at the end of the day if he is going to be a better player than a established member of a team roster than most GM's will draft him. The country has come a long was over the past 10 years on the whole Gay issue.

[RiverDog]

Okay time for a little redneck perspective here. #1 one of Sams Missouri teammates has stated today in the social media that the locker room wasn't nearly as united as Sam makes everyone believe it was. #2 I don't respect this guy for trying to become some sort of transcendentalist type of figure.I really could care less about his or anyone's sexual preference or lifestyle. It seems ironic to me that Tebow got tarred and feathered for loving God and preaching abstinence and the rights of the unborn. Sherman was vilified for professing to be the best CB in the game. And we are supposed to fall all over this guy because he says he likes dudes? I don't want to hear about sex, whether its this attention hound or Jonathan and Ritchie's bawdy texts. Its a game. I'm sick of watching the NFL become some sort of a vehicle for social engineering. You want to be with a man? Just do it, don't hold a damn press conference.

#3And no I don't want our loaded repeat ready Seahawks drafting this guy. Talk about a media circus.He couldn't crack this lineup anyway.........

OK let the stereotypical labeling begin, I'm going to go watch some Duck Dynasty:-) Just kidding it will be sound FX.

IMO Tebow got tarred and feathered not so much because of the content of what he professed rather the frequency of which he repeated it.

This doesn't have the capacity to turn into a Tebow-like circus no matter who drafts him. Tebow was a former Heisman Trophy winning quarterback that was selected in the first round. This guy is going to be a middle round draft choice that plays on the defensive line. He'll grab a few headlines in training camp, perhaps into the preseason. But once the regular season kicks off, the story will have run its course and they'll be talking about what team has the best chance of knocking off the defending Super Bowl Champion Seattle Seahawks (it still seems strange saying that).

[Seahawks4Ever]

1. Since he was the co-defensive player of the year and said he was projected as a "mid-round" prospect I took that for mid 1st. round. I would have thought the wording would have been "mid-draft".

2. As for the so-called redneck view, would it have been better or more honorable in your eyes if he would have announced he was gay AFTER he was drafted??? Or maybe you just wish he would have just stayed in the closet??

3. This has nothing to do with Tim Tebow or Richard Sherman, you are comparing apples and tiddly winks.

4. I still don't know why Tebow was so vilified. Just last week John Schneider gave all credit to Jesus Christ for our Super Bowl win as did earl Thomas and several other Seahawks. It was the media that followed Tebow around filming and recording everything he did or said. Besides the media Tebow had a huge fan following that seemed to want to worship him and to this day refuse to acknowledge that he lacked the talent to succeed in the NFL.

5. I agree that this kid couldn't crack the LOB(Sherman says it stands for the entire defense) but he would be a great fit in San Francisco.

[briwas101]

I can't wait for stuff like this to not be considered a big deal.

I don't think someone should be put down for being gay, nor do I think that people deserve extra praise for "coming out".

If a pro athlete came out as heterosexual would they be praised? Not at all.

If you're gay you're gay, that's the way it is.

I respect him for staying true to himself and for making it a fact that soon there will be at least one active football player who is gay (although i bet there's one on almost every team already).

I would have no problem with him being on our team, but I don't think he would ever play DE for us.

[Hawktawk]

Part of Sams coming out party was the reports that the media was about to "out" him via leaks, which is equally wrong. So in a sense he was between a rock and a hard place.He did the same thing a lot of politicians did. He got out ahead of the story to put his narrative on it, his spin. IMO it was a very calculated decision by a mid round pick(RW, Sherman type money) to either enhance his stock with the right GM or make potential millions off of his celebrity. As I stated earlier there are comments from a teammate saying the locker room was definitely divided unlike the description Sam had given. Extrapolate that to the NFL locker room I think there will be some major issues, especially with guys who are either idiots(plenty) or guys who have a religious objection to the lifestyle.And those will be the people who will have the problems for their "intolerance" while Sam will get the kid glove treatment. It will be a bad thing for whatever team drafts him or signs him as a free agent.

No I do not think gays should "come out" anymore than I think heterosexuals should publicly discuss their favorite positions in the sack or their various conquests. If you are a gay or a lesbian don't hold a press conference. Bring your partner to the business function or team dinner and be who you are. Society in general has proven to be very tolerant for the most part.

Shut up and play.It doesn't make us bigots, it makes us football fans.

[c_hawkbob]

Part of Sams coming out party was the reports that the media was about to "out" him via leaks, which is equally wrong. So in a sense he was between a rock and a hard place.He did the same thing a lot of politicians did. He got out ahead of the story to put his narrative on it, his spin. IMO it was a very calculated decision by a mid round pick(RW, Sherman type money) to either enhance his stock with the right GM or make potential millions off of his celebrity.

He wasn't "outed" by the media because they felt they couldn't run the story without corroberation, which they were'nt getting from him because he was not made available for questions from the media. This was by his own choice as he said he didn't want the story to be about him more than the team. Exactly as any team would prefer it to be.

It's true that he got ahead of the situation because he had no real choice. The NFL, unlike the NCAA, requires players to be available to the media and as he doesn't hide the fact that he's gay it was entirely appropriate (whether beneficial to him or not) to make the announcement now while there is plenty of time for teams to digest the information before the draft. Would you prefer he waited until after the draft?

As I stated earlier there are comments from a teammate saying the locker room was definitely divided unlike the description Sam had given.

If you're going to keep saying this, provide a link. I watch all the NFL news content I can fit into my off time and I haven't heard this.

I do not think gays should "come out" anymore than I think heterosexuals should publicly discuss their favorite positions in the sack or their various conquests.

A ridiculous comparison. Nobody wants to know if you're hetero or how you go about it but being the first openly gay draft prospect in NFL history is news and the press conference was the only real right thing to do unless you're advocating that all homosexuals should stay in the closet so you don't have to feel uncomfortable about it. But that can't be, because that would make you a bigot, and you just said you're not.

[Long Time Fan]

[quote="Hawktawk" IMO it was a very calculated decision by a mid round pick(RW, Sherman type money) to either enhance his stock with the right GM or make potential millions off of his celebrity.[/quote]

This is nonsense.

Its not self-aggrandizing in any way. Its naive to think that any football player due to be drafted into the NFL and declaring prior to that draft that he is gay is doing this for purely self-serving reasons. I acknowledge that Sam will benefit in the long run via the knowledge that he is true to himself and he is sure to receive a preponderance of acceptance from most teammates and fans, but there will be times that he will wish that he had opted for the don't ask, don't tell stance in play heretofore.

This is a big deal. This is a Jackie Robinson Lite moment. This story will have legs and receive national coverage for months to come. It is also likely that his "integration" story will pass more quickly and seem less monumental in time than that of Jackie Robinson. The pace of social change is far more rapid today, this is the up side of that double edged sword.

[RiverDog]

1. Since he was the co-defensive player of the year and said he was projected as a "mid-round" prospect I took that for mid 1st. round. I would have thought the wording would have been "mid-draft".

2. As for the so-called redneck view, would it have been better or more honorable in your eyes if he would have announced he was gay AFTER he was drafted??? Or maybe you just wish he would have just stayed in the closet??

3. This has nothing to do with Tim Tebow or Richard Sherman, you are comparing apples and tiddly winks.

4. I still don't know why Tebow was so vilified. Just last week John Schneider gave all credit to Jesus Christ for our Super Bowl win as did earl Thomas and several other Seahawks. It was the media that followed Tebow around filming and recording everything he did or said. Besides the media Tebow had a huge fan following that seemed to want to worship him and to this day refuse to acknowledge that he lacked the talent to succeed in the NFL.

5. I agree that this kid couldn't crack the LOB(Sherman says it stands for the entire defense) but he would be a great fit in San Francisco.

IMO the comparison with Tebow is valid. They both talked about one of the three taboo subjects that's guaranteed to draw a debate with widely varying opinions, albeit it to a lesser degree than Tebow, at least so far. I don't understand the comparison to Richard Sherman, either.

I admire Sam coming out of the closet before the draft, but there's no doubt this decision of his is going to hurt his draft status, which was already falling before the announcement. Sam is a one dimensional situational pass rushing specialist (where have we heard that before!) and it was reported that he had a bad week at the Senior Bowl. He's listed at 6'2", 255, which might be a little smallish for a defensive end. They usually cheat in the media programs on players reported height, so that 6'2" could end up being closer to 6'0". He was at best mid round talent before he came out of the closet. Teams might stay away from him because the potential upside might not outweigh the added publicity that they would just as soon not have to deal with.

You're going to have to add a smiley face to your last sentence so other less demented posters will get your sense of humor like I did.

[Eaglehawk]

I can't wait for stuff like this to not be considered a big deal.

I don't think someone should be put down for being gay, nor do I think that people deserve extra praise for "coming out".

If a pro athlete came out as heterosexual would they be praised? Not at all.

If you're gay you're gay, that's the way it is.

I respect him for staying true to himself and for making it a fact that soon there will be at least one active football player who is gay (although i bet there's one on almost every team already).

I would have no problem with him being on our team, but I don't think he would ever play DE for us.

Agreed with everything you said. A first!

[kalibane]

I don't think the comparison with Tebow is valid. As you've gone over many times Riv, Tebow just didn't come out and tell everyone "I'm a Christian". Like I've said many times, there are a ton of devout Christians in the NFL. Our own Russell Wilson and (previously) Jon Kitna among them.

Tebow actively traded on the media concocted messiah image and helped to fuel it at every opportunity to leverage his employment opportunities.

There are two major differences here. 1. "Coming Out" is not going to help his draft stock. It only has the potential of hurting it. Regardless as to whether people are actually homophobic or wether they just want to limit distractions in the lockerroom there will be GMs who take him off their draft board for only this reason and no one is going to move him up. 2. While people are talking about how it was neat that he was out to his team already and generally speaking the locker room and community was okay with it and supported him, realize this, it's exactly because he was out locally that there is ZERO chance this story doesn't come out between now in the draft. 32 scouting departments will be combing through these guys backrounds for the next 3 months and it's only a matter of time before he gets outed. But from his point of view, you might as well just get out ahead of it.

Now if he starts leading every interview with reminders that he's gay and figures out a way to leverage that into a job opportunity that he in no way deserves then he's Tebow. For now he's just a guy who owned up to what he was.

This is also why he's not particularly courageous btw. The story was going to be a story one way or the other. He's just taking control of it.

[Eaglehawk]

Where is Tebow anyway?

[Eaglehawk]

Everybody on his team knew.

Everybody at his school knew.

Most of the people in town knew and I find it quite interesting (and a testament to how the kid handles the situation) that to all these people it was a non-issue. It's even more significant that none of these people "outed" him.

It's news now cause it's new information. In very short order it'll be a non-issue for the rest of us.

+1

[Long Time Fan]

This is also why he's not particularly courageous btw. The story was going to be a story one way or the other. He's just taking control of it.

Kalibane, I agree with most of what you say, many good points, but make no mistake this guy is indeed courageous. He demonstrated courage the day he came out to his Missouri team. Yes, of course, this is the subsequent outcome of that decision and that path. That first step must have been a doozy.

[kalibane]

Well yeah you misunderstood. I think it took balls to come out to his team at Mizzou and his parents and friends or other loved ones he relies on and faced possible rejection from. That took courage.

I'm not seeking to minimize the difficulty that homosexuals face when they deal with whether come out. I just don't think this announcement was an instance of actually coming out, because he already was out. This is just a public relations exercise. I think he's smart for handling it this way, but the information was coming out one way or the other, he just had to decide on the terms under which he wanted it to become public knowledge.

[RiverDog]

I don't think the comparison with Tebow is valid. As you've gone over many times Riv, Tebow just didn't come out and tell everyone "I'm a Christian". Like I've said many times, there are a ton of devout Christians in the NFL. Our own Russell Wilson and (previously) Jon Kitna among them.

Tebow actively traded on the media concocted messiah image and helped to fuel it at every opportunity to leverage his employment opportunities.

There are two major differences here. 1. "Coming Out" is not going to help his draft stock. It only has the potential of hurting it. Regardless as to whether people are actually homophobic or wether they just want to limit distractions in the lockerroom there will be GMs who take him off their draft board for only this reason and no one is going to move him up. 2. While people are talking about how it was neat that he was out to his team already and generally speaking the locker room and community was okay with it and supported him, realize this, it's exactly because he was out locally that there is ZERO chance this story doesn't come out between now in the draft. 32 scouting departments will be combing through these guys backrounds for the next 3 months and it's only a matter of time before he gets outed. But from his point of view, you might as well just get out ahead of it.

Now if he starts leading every interview with reminders that he's gay and figures out a way to leverage that into a job opportunity that he in no way deserves then he's Tebow. For now he's just a guy who owned up to what he was.

This is also why he's not particularly courageous btw. The story was going to be a story one way or the other. He's just taking control of it.

I agree that there's a lot of differences between Tebow and Sam, but there's enough similarities to make the comparison valid, the largest of which is that the subject matter is very polarizing and represents an issue that teams would rather avoid. Edit: There's a lot in the media that are making a connection between Tebow and Sam, so it's not just Hawktalk and me that see a correlation.

I'm not sure that I'd characterize his coming out "courageous" or not, but it is admirable in that it shows respect for the team that will eventually end up drafting him, perhaps to his own financial detriment.

An as you said, if he starts talking 24/7 about his sexuality as Tebow did about his religion, he'll quickly lose my respect. But given his draft status and the position he plays, he's not going to be afforded the same pulpit to preach from that Tebow was.

[Long Time Fan]

Kalibane,

Different point of view, no problem. I think anyone who sets his feet on a difficult path is courageous for each and every stop of that path. Climbing a mountain will have some steps easier than others, each step is courageous.

I would guess with some confidence that Sam knew when he came out to his Missouri teammates that he would live the rest of his life "out" no matter how big the stage. I have no doubt this kid is courageous. He would have to be. He also apparently has the good sense to get out in front of this.

I read an interesting story about Branch Rickey seeking the right ball player to be the first to break the color barrier in baseball. Rickey sought not necessarily the best black player, but the one who could best withstand what he was to face. Until an NFL franchise is set in Sochi, this NFL mountain looks steep enough.

[Hawktawk]

Part of Sams coming out party was the reports that the media was about to "out" him via leaks, which is equally wrong. So in a sense he was between a rock and a hard place.He did the same thing a lot of politicians did. He got out ahead of the story to put his narrative on it, his spin. IMO it was a very calculated decision by a mid round pick(RW, Sherman type money) to either enhance his stock with the right GM or make potential millions off of his celebrity.

He wasn't "outed" by the media because they felt they couldn't run the story without corroberation, which they were'nt getting from him because he was not made available for questions from the media. This was by his own choice as he said he didn't want the story to be about him more than the team. Exactly as any team would prefer it to be.

It's true that he got ahead of the situation because he had no real choice. The NFL, unlike the NCAA, requires players to be available to the media and as he doesn't hide the fact that he's gay it was entirely appropriate (whether beneficial to him or not) to make the announcement now while there is plenty of time for teams to digest the information before the draft. Would you prefer he waited until after the draft?

As I stated earlier there are comments from a teammate saying the locker room was definitely divided unlike the description Sam had given.

If you're going to keep saying this, provide a link. I watch all the NFL news content I can fit into my off time and I haven't heard this.

I do not think gays should "come out" anymore than I think heterosexuals should publicly discuss their favorite positions in the sack or their various conquests.

A ridiculous comparison. Nobody wants to know if you're hetero or how you go about it but being the first openly gay draft prospect in NFL history is news and the press conference was the only real right thing to do unless you're advocating that all homosexuals should stay in the closet so you don't have to feel uncomfortable about it. But that can't be, because that would make you a bigot, and you just said you're not.

Bob I'm not link savvy but I'm not spitting it. I read the comments on FB this morning. I believe it was a Missouri DB and the jist of his comment was that a lot of the people in the locker room saying how welcoming they were talked a lot of stuff behind the guys back. Of course when the PC police are out in full force not too many media outlets are going to push that angle.I mean, hes already gotten a congratulatory call from Obama and Goodells openly gay brother has called him a hero.

Personally I'm not the least bit "uncomfortable" with gays.Their alternative lifestyle is their business. They represent nearly 10 % of the population. To each his or her own.Like I say I'm sick of the league being some sort of vehicle for social engineering. As a guy who is first and foremost a Hawks fan there is no way on earth I want this team being a guinea pig for this guy and his media circus and potentially destroying the team chemistry. The circus will be every bit as crazy as Tebow, just wait for the combine. NFLPA commissioner Smith is already blasting the unnamed GMs who have allegedly dropped the guy or removed him from their board. See Bob, fans like me and GMs who care only about team chemistry and winning are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we don't want to be labeled as homophobes or bigots we have to love this guy on draft day, whether he can really play or not. Sorry I'm not playing the game.

[Oly]

Like I say I'm sick of the league being some sort of vehicle for social engineering. As a guy who is first and foremost a Hawks fan there is no way on earth I want this team being a guinea pig for this guy and his media circus and potentially destroying the team chemistry.

I can empathize with wishing sports didn't have this role, but that's how it's always been and how it will always be. Sports are the world's biggest stage for human drama, and even though there is a subset of people like you who want to keep sports pure, from the time of the Greeks onward, the social issues of the day don't get ignored when the world is focused on the biggest social stage it has. From cultural differences to race to gender to disability to poverty to homosexuality, the issues on people's minds come out when they are all talking about the same group of people. I can completely understand how someone would rather not see this happen, but I don't think it will ever happen.

See Bob, fans like me and GMs who care only about team chemistry and winning are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we don't want to be labeled as homophobes or bigots we have to love this guy on draft day, whether he can really play or not. Sorry I'm not playing the game.

I disagree. Those labels only come out if you address the topic. I don't doubt that those labels come out too quickly, for example if you say you're worried about the locker room I can see people unfairly jumping on you for that. But if you just say that he doesn't have a position in the NFL and leave the stuff about his orientation alone, I'd be shocked if you heard anything more than one or two whackjobs saying anything. Hell, I'm a liberal who has donated money to organizations that promote marriage equality, and I don't want Sam on this team based on what I've seen of him as a player. I'm just not sure he's athletic enough to be the LEO for the Hawks.

I would say that I think you're making a bad assumption that having a gay player would really hurt a team's chances of winning as long as that player had a strong and supportive coach behind him. A coach who can keep his players in line and who would make sure that nothing like a Tebow circus came to town could absolutely make it work, IMO. The fact that the locker room at Mizzou was openly supportive--even if it was different in private--shows this. The fact that some DB wasn't happy about it only strengthens my point; it shows that a program can be successful even when there are dissenting opinions, as long as the coach has control over the program. As long as Sam goes about his business in the NFL like he did in college, it won't be a distraction.

[Hawktawk]

I disagree. Those labels only come out if you address the topic. I don't doubt that those labels come out too quickly, for example if you say you're worried about the locker room I can see people unfairly jumping on you for that. But if you just say that he doesn't have a position in the NFL and leave the stuff about his orientation alone, I'd be shocked if you heard anything more than one or two whackjobs saying anything. Hell, I'm a liberal who has donated money to organizations that promote marriage equality, and I don't want Sam on this team based on what I've seen of him as a player. I'm just not sure he's athletic enough to be the LEO for the Hawks.

Thats the point I'm trying to make though. A lot of NFL people have come out in support of Sam, including a Hawk player who's name i didn't catch this morning. Maybe I am completely wrong, and I hope so. But it will be fascinating to see what actually happens on draft day. Will some of the owners, GMs and coaches who said they would have no problem really draft him, or was it just PR? In a way I would compare it to the Rooney rule where minorities often got called in for a meaningless interview but the club had 0 interest in actually hiring them. Honestly I have watched very little film on the guy so i cant make a personal judgement on how he might perform at the Pro level.I think if he can play he should have his chance somewhere but I would be as worried as heck if he came here. For me the fear is his openly gay status, due to the media circus and potential disruption of our locker room. Now understand I personally do not hate or judge gays. Its about my Hawks, the unbelievable chemistry they have, and their ability to focus on the task, which is winning championships.Its a very selfish perspective obviously. Ultimately its above my pay grade and I trust JS and PC to make their own decisions. Its worked very well. But to say there arent GMs out there that are worried to death about the same thing would be foolish.

[kalibane]

Hawk,

I'm sorry but I think you are completely off base and are rationalizing your position on this. Who cares if there were some guys who were not 100% supportive of him being homesexual? There is no such thing as a locker room where everyone agrees with everything all the time. There will always be people who talk behind others' backs. The take away from the Mizzou lockerroom was that as a unit they were supportive enough that tormenting him over his sexual orientation was not acceptable and that it in no way impacted the team's ability to play well. Not to mention that your source is Facebook of all places.

You admitted yourself the story was going to come out regardless. I heard on NFL Sirius people were poking around the senior bowl asking about it. Front offices knew. It wasn't a secret and so it was a matter of time before they ran the story. I have no idea how you think this boosts his draft stock. There isn't a GM or coach in the world who wants to use one of their 7 precious draft choices as PR chip (and certainly not now considering the Seahawks are the new "blueprint" and they have gotten so much out of late round draft choices). He wanted the story to come out on his terms, plain and simple. I guess it's caluculated by the strict definition of the word but it doesn't enhance his draft status in any way. As one player on the Jets said recently, if drafting this guy destroys a lockerroom it's an immature lockerroom.

This has no zero correlation to the Rooney Rule btw.

[Oly]

Who cares if there were some guys who were not 100% supportive of him being homesexual? There is no such thing as a locker room where everyone agrees with everything all the time. There will always be people who talk behind others' backs. The take away from the Mizzou lockerroom was that as a unit they were supportive enough that tormenting him over his sexual orientation was not acceptable and that it in no way impacted the team's ability to play well.

My point exactly.

This has no zero correlation to the Rooney Rule btw.

I agree, and it's because PR--especially for the team leading the league in PR right now--isn't more important than the player they're drafting. The Rooney Rule is about having to interview a candidate, but it doesn't tie that person to your franchise. Drafting does, which is why there is a different standard that would be applied. On a team like the Hawks that fills out its roster with late round players, do you really think the FO would waste it drafting Sam unless they thought he was the best player? JS hoards late round picks and guards them like they were his teenage daughter. He's not going to blow one on a PR stunt.

[Hawktawk]

Hawk,

I'm sorry but I think you are completely off base and are rationalizing your position on this. Who cares if there were some guys who were not 100% supportive of him being homesexual? There is no such thing as a locker room where everyone agrees with everything all the time. There will always be people who talk behind others' backs. The take away from the Mizzou lockerroom was that as a unit they were supportive enough that tormenting him over his sexual orientation was not acceptable and that it in no way impacted the team's ability to play well. Not to mention that your source is Facebook of all places.

You admitted yourself the story was going to come out regardless. I heard on NFL Sirius people were poking around the senior bowl asking about it. Front offices knew. It wasn't a secret and so it was a matter of time before they ran the story. I have no idea how you think this boosts his draft stock. There isn't a GM or coach in the world who wants to use one of their 7 precious draft choices as PR chip (and certainly not now considering the Seahawks are the new "blueprint" and they have gotten so much out of late round draft choices). He wanted the story to come out on his terms, plain and simple. I guess it's caluculated by the strict definition of the word but it doesn't enhance his draft status in any way. As one player on the Jets said recently, if drafting this guy destroys a lockerroom it's an immature lockerroom.

This has no zero correlation to the Rooney Rule btw.

Kal,
I agree with a lot of what you said. But it isn't the same sort of locker room issue as a guy being selfish or a loudmouth etc. This is the guy, the Curt Flood, the Jackie Robinson of the gay movement. For better or worse I have a difficult time seeing how it wont be a distraction. Just heard Gil Brandt on NFL network and his position is that Sam wasn't in his top 150 players BEFORE the announcement.He cited the fact that 9 of the guys sacks came in 3 games earlier in the season and that he looked awful vs Auburn despite being single blocked. He feels that any GM weighing Sam vs someone with similar skills they will almost certainly take the other guy TO AVOID THE DISTRACTION. That is my biggest concern as well.

I can see I'm the old neanderthal and I will just shut my yap on the subject after this post but I will be really curious to see the media and Goodells reaction moving forward with this guy, especially if he falls out of the draft.

[RiverDog]

I hope you don't 'shut your yap' after your last post, hawktalk. I may not agree with you on everything, but your viewpoint is worth hearing.

IMO the only way this becomes an issue is if both of two things occur: (1). Sams is successful on the field, and at least starts. (2) Sams plays his hand in the same manner Tebow played his hand, in other words, uses his on field success to promote his personal agenda.

[Hawktawk]

I hope you don't 'shut your yap' after your last post, hawktalk. I may not agree with you on everything, but your viewpoint is worth hearing.

IMO the only way this becomes an issue is if both of two things occur: (1). Sams is successful on the field, and at least starts. (2) Sams plays his hand in the same manner Tebow played his hand, in other words, uses his on field success to promote his personal agenda.

Just got done watching MRob, Mebane, and Big Red on NFL network. This issue was discussed. All three Seahawks thought there would be some issues, as did the host Willie Mcginest. His takeaway comment was that not everyone is comfortable with the situation and that they SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED for feeling that way. Mrob talked about how hard it is to be a rook with all the hazing everyone goes through to begin with and how difficult it would be to add Sams additional challenge to that mix. Red had perhaps the most profound comments when he discussed how the D line constantly chirps and goofs one another to stay strong. He is worried about whether they could engage in that type of banter with Sam without being subjected to a backlash. It seemed clear to me after watching the segment that Seattle would hardly be a soft landing spot for Sam.I don't think its going to be easy for him anywhere. Its going to take time.

Things change though. On Feb 2nd RW won a SB title and it was not mentioned that he is only the second African American QB to do so. It will be that way for openly gay NFL players too someday, but not right now IMO.

[4XPIPS]

Exactly how I feel about it Hawktawk.

It's an issue that he is openly gay, and it's not an issue that people have an opinion about it.

What we have now, is the Major News Media has a loaded shotgun called "Gotcha" waiting for someone to speak out about their indifference to homosexuality. That certain individual will be blasted in seconds, and deemed an evil person, whether it be a Coach or Player, or any NFL Personal. This is exactly what the media wants to live off of... "something more than it actually it is"

Now Michael Sam, unintentionally put the entire NFL on egg shells! I just feel bad for anyone who will formulate their own opinion about being gay, and not agree with it but still be a good teammate/person.

[Eaglehawk]

I hope you don't 'shut your yap' after your last post, hawktalk. I may not agree with you on everything, but your viewpoint is worth hearing.

IMO the only way this becomes an issue is if both of two things occur: (1). Sams is successful on the field, and at least starts. (2) Sams plays his hand in the same manner Tebow played his hand, in other words, uses his on field success to promote his personal agenda.

Just got done watching MRob, Mebane, and Big Red on NFL network. This issue was discussed. All three Seahawks thought there would be some issues, as did the host Willie Mcginest. His takeaway comment was that not everyone is comfortable with the situation and that they SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED for feeling that way. Mrob talked about how hard it is to be a rook with all the hazing everyone goes through to begin with and how difficult it would be to add Sams additional challenge to that mix. Red had perhaps the most profound comments when he discussed how the D line constantly chirps and goofs one another to stay strong. He is worried about whether they could engage in that type of banter with Sam without being subjected to a backlash. It seemed clear to me after watching the segment that Seattle would hardly be a soft landing spot for Sam.I don't think its going to be easy for him anywhere. Its going to take time.

Things change though. On Feb 2nd RW won a SB title and it was not mentioned that he is only the second African American QB to do so. It will be that way for openly gay NFL players too someday, but not right now IMO.

Hawktawk and Kalibane,
Both of your points are valid actually.
People can totally disagree with him and still play with him.
I don't like their lifestyle either, doesn't mean I won't play football with them.

And yes some GM's will NOT pick him just for the distraction factor. We all know that.

Hawktawks points are extremely salient in that you have a team that has gelled and will rib each other. Some of that ribbing may include the word gay especially if everyone is known to be either straight or in the closet. Or phrases that people use which mean nothing to the players other than having fun, but now they may have to be careful.

In in a group where you have gay guy present will some say those "t_ts" on that girl were huge, or sing that song when talking about a supermodel or a celebrity(yes Kardashian will do) "I like big butts and I cannot lie, you other brothers can't deny"... or say, "that Mariah Carrey still has a booty on her, you know if I wasn't married I'd hit that". With a gay guy next to you, a player may think twice. Its stuff that guys say, married or not. As you mentioned Hawktawk it may affect the chirping in the trenches which may affect cohesion.

To be honest the answer lies with what type of personality the gay guy has.
Is he sensitive? Then I would not bring him on to the Seahawks. I think part of the formula for the hawks has been cohesion. You don't want to bring in a distraction to the locker room.

Big question is if he Is personable, and can he hang with the boys in the locker room?
Again it depends on the personality of the gay guy.

I remember I had a business partner in Seattle that was not only gay, he was what we call on the East Coast a "flamer". He told me that he did not just come out of the closet when it was time, he FLEW out of the closet.
He spoke to me using terms oh honey, that Queen was staring at me, my gay-dar is always on that guy over there is as gay as they come, etc. I have never been really close to what gay guys think in this manner, and it was hilarious!

What a funny guy! I was single and he would snicker at my remarks about women, when I would say some gal was 'SUPERFINE", he would lower his voice and say, "she's a hag" what happened to your standards? I would laugh and look at him and say "really?". He took me into his world of gay bars in Seattle, Capital Hill, where I picked up a girl actually, my other friend did not get so lucky, she looked like a girl alright and...well you know the rest of the story I remember him telling me that he washed his mouth out and brushed his teeth for over 30 minutes.

If you have never been to a gay bar, I'm not going to tell you to put it on your bucket list, but man, its not too bad, they are not all making out all over the place like I thought. Its funny as hell though to see old men and young guys dancing together. I laughed and the gals(the real ones)there were ripe for the picking since no one was hitting on them!

Some gay guys can be some of the most funny persons on the planet, others are A holes to the MAX. And of course you respect them regardless. But one personality makes it easier for cohesion, the other makes it more difficult.

In that case, IF he is the best person available AND the best fit for this team WITH the right personality and mindset. Why not?

[Eaglehawk]

Another thing I learned about the gay community in Seattle is that when they say they have a partner its a serious deal.
They are more loyal to their partners, in some cases more than some people are to their wives.

So if this guy shows up to the Seahawk locker room and says, "I ain't into any of you all I already have partner". That is a HUGE deal.

Or maybe he lets it be known that he does not like black or white guys but Japanese and Latino guys(for example).
Again, a factor that would make other team mates comfortable.
Now if he says: "I only like the brothers". Now the Seahawk locker room has a problem assuming he does not have the personality to make others feel comfortable on the team and not constantly looking over their shoulders.

Of course I recognize some would NEVER be comfortable. There is nothing that can be done about that situation. IMOL.

[burrrton]

If you believe as I do that homosexuality is a natural state (meaning: they didn't choose to be that way- it's in their wiring), it's perfectly natural to assume that something like the shower situation could make some uncomfortable.

Whether they have a partner or not, or generally prefer (an)other race(s), doesn't affect the sexual attraction generally. To assume it does is to assume their sexuality is different than that of a hetero.

Not being comfortable with an acknowledged homosexual in the locker room watching you shower is no more 'phobic' than a woman being uncomfortable with a hetero man doing so.

Of course not everybody cares (I wouldn't), but if they do, give them a break.

[kalibane]

Sorry I gotta ask. Why on earth would someone think twice about making lurid comments about women because a gay guy is in earshot? I have to hear the logic behind that statement.