RW Bleacher report ranked #3

[Anthony]

RW Bleacher report ranked #3

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1949 ... ks/page/64

[NorthHawk]

I think that Rodgers has shown over time to be better as well as Brady.
Both are surprises to me.
Still, top 5 on my list is still pretty good.

[Anthony]

I think that Rodgers has shown over time to be better as well as Brady.
Both are surprises to me.
Still, top 5 on my list is still pretty good.

even with those 2 he is still the top ranked of the young guys, and with room to grow

[Seahawker]

I believe Peyton Manning has been on the cover of Sports Illustrated 13 times in his career. It's about time for SI to give RW his first appearance. Maybe they wait for the repeat or future records to fall, it don't matter though, Because he's ours, all ours.

[HumanCockroach]

Sorry, as much as I like Wilson, can't put to much credence in anyone doing QB rankings that has Phillip Rivers ranked ahead of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, hell even Brees, Romo, etc. Rivers ranked at number 2, despite his really good season last year is a joke to me, and as such, I can't get to excited about choosing Wilson there.

[Anthony]

Sorry, as much as I like Wilson, can't put to much credence in anyone doing QB rankings that has Phillip Rivers ranked ahead of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, hell even Brees, Romo, etc. Rivers ranked at number 2, despite his really good season last year is a joke to me, and as such, I can't get to excited about choosing Wilson there.

I do not totally disagree with you , but if you take your personnel feelings out of it, and look at his season last year, which is what they did, he belongs in the top 5. Just as Rw does.

[HumanCockroach]

Maybe, but it doesn't look like they did that either to me. Rodgers sits at 4 ( which IMHO is probably where he belongs) and he missed over half the year. No one can convince me he should be above Brees either. Just can't take a ranking like that seriously. Maybe I am incapable of taking my "feelings" out of it, but it seems to me, they are being awfully liberal about when they do and don't. I know what we have in Wilson, but without those "feelings" he doesn't rank third either.

[Distant Relative]

Sorry, as much as I like Wilson, can't put to much credence in anyone doing QB rankings that has Phillip Rivers ranked ahead of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, hell even Brees, Romo, etc. Rivers ranked at number 2, despite his really good season last year is a joke to me, and as such, I can't get to excited about choosing Wilson there.

^^^^ This! Phillip Rivers # 2 ???? They lost me right then and there.

[Anthony]

Sorry, as much as I like Wilson, can't put to much credence in anyone doing QB rankings that has Phillip Rivers ranked ahead of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, hell even Brees, Romo, etc. Rivers ranked at number 2, despite his really good season last year is a joke to me, and as such, I can't get to excited about choosing Wilson there.

^^^^ This! Phillip Rivers # 2 ???? They lost me right then and there.

I am not a Rivers fan but you cannot deny he had a great 2013 season and that is what this list is about.

I mean 5th in total yards, 3-1 td to int ratio, 31 in completion %, 5 in YPA, 4 in Qb rating. No matter your personnel feeling she had a great year. The only one I have an issue with is Rodgers given he missed half the year. The rest based on the year I agree with.

[kalibane]

I think people are really under estimating how good a year Phillip Rivers had this year.

When you parse the numbers Rivers is right there with Brees. He had a higher completion percentage. Higher Yards per attempt and Higher QBR. Brees has a slightly lower interception percentage (by .2 %) and more raw yardage and TDs. When you factor in the fact that Brees had 20% more pass attempts and Rivers' best receiver was Keenan Allen (a rookie) vs. Brees far better and more divers group of receivers, the raw yardage starts to not be as impressive.

Now you wanna say you take Brees based on intangibles and sure, it's not worth arguing over, but it's not even close to ridiculous to assert that Rivers was the 2nd best QB this year. He has as good a claim on that slot if not better than Brees. FOR THIS YEAR ONLY. And the writer of this list explicitly said to throw out past and future projections.

[Hawktawk]

RW is one of the best. Hes a very unique player, really unlike anyone the league has ever seen.Ive always liked Rivers, hes got a lot of moxie. He had a great year. IMO Manning is ranked way too high. Hes probably top 5 but no way is he the best QB in the league. The Denver offense was built on smoke, mirrors, and really mobile receivers coupled with an illegal pick on most routes. They led the league in YAC by a mile. Then they ran into the legion of boom and POOF!!!Manning has always been a choking dog in the postseason with his "star wars numbers" being meaningless when it matters most. Now that he has about half the arm strength as before he is really very one dimensional. If he returns next year I see him being exposed big time. Hes taken the donkeys as far as they are going to go with him under center.

[HumanCockroach]

Well and this is where the argument for Rivers falls flat for me. You can use numbers, or you can base it on overall team success, or you can go with your feelings, etc, but you can't pick and choose which one you are going to use from player to player IMHO. If we are using just numbers, Wilson, Rodgers etc don't belong where they fell, if you are actually ranking players based on something more ( which IMO is exactly why Wilson and Rodgers are so high) than you can't pick a player based on numbers, only to come back with feelings on another, it makes the rankings a miss mash of opinion, mixed with stats here or there.

Just don't believe on using whatever strikes you to do it. Why bother with any stats at all if you are only going to use them when you see fit, to justify a guy like Rivers, but ignore them in the case of Wilson and Rodgers? Makes little sense to me.

[kalibane]

1. It's not just numbers. The tape backs it up. Want to talk about team success? How about the fact that the Chargers made the playoffs with only two pro-bowlers in a division with 2 other playoff teams. Only GB had fewer among playoff teams (but they had 7 other alternates) and that's because Aaron Rodgers, Randall Cobb, Casey Heyward and Clay Matthews missed so many games they couldn't possibly be considered. SD's lack of pro-bowlers was because of lack of talent not injuries. Their next best player per the pro-bowl was Gates as a third alternate, a mostly reputation pick.

2. The advanced metrics that I used for Rivers apply to Wilson as well. The problem with stats is when you don't allow for context. Raw numbers skew things further than they appear at times. Rivers passes any and every contextual situation and his number hold up.

It would have been nice for Manning to not have the type of unanimous MVP year he had because then guys like Wilson and Rivers would have been getting more national press for how they performed this year. Rivers (a guy I've never liked) would have gotten my MVP vote over Brees (a guy I've always loved since Purdue). I don't know if you didn't see his games or are just letting his past disappointments create bias in your evaluation but Rivers had a brilliant season and that's all this list was taking into account.

[Distant Relative]

How about strength of schedule and wins and losses? Not to mention the division they play in. Smoke and mirrors. PR is a whiny B and does not have the football mind of the top tier Qb's in the league. Maybe I'm biased due to the fact that I lost for him and Cutler years ago when they were acting like fools on the sidelines bickering back and forth during the game. They made that game about them and not their teams. Lack of cooth if you ask me. On my tablet so sorry about any grammar errors. Not really!

[kalibane]

Again this is about last year. Not years ago. I'm not a Rivers fan by any stretch. There is no way I'd project him to be better than Brees next year but last year, brilliant.

Again the man had one other pro bowl caliber on his team (on defense)and he was in the playoffs. Don't care that he had a weak out of division. They still had the second best div in football.

[RiverDog]

Rivers at #2 surprised me. Flacco at 20 something surprised me, too. But if you're looking at the position from a purely mechanical standpoint, I guess it makes more sense. They didn't seem to factor in intangibles, otherwise Romo and Flacco would have been flip flopped.

Russell's accuracy was a bit inconsistent this season, especially in the latter half of the year, and I thought there were times when he forced a bad pass rather than taking off and running. Nevertheless, I feel his #3 ranking is well deserved. He took care of the ball, something that has been a huge priority for my quarterbacks after having endured years of an elevated blood pressure thanks to Dave Krieg.

[Distant Relative]

Again this is about last year. Not years ago. I'm not a Rivers fan by any stretch. There is no way I'd project him to be better than Brees next year but last year, brilliant.

Again the man had one other pro bowl caliber on his team (on defense)and he was in the playoffs. Don't care that he had a weak out of division. They still had the second best div in football.

Got it.

Still not impressed with PR's. I stand by my previous statement. A big difference between the two divisions and the quality of the opposing teams that they play. Not even close ( IMO). The Super Bowl told the story.

I personally find it laughable where they ranked Phillip. That said, I do think Russ was ranked a little higher than he should have been.

Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Wilson
Rivers ...... In my book. Not that it means crap.

[RiverDog]

Actually I thought that one of the better performances of the season was put in by Tom Brady. I kept waiting for them to implode, yet they made it all the way to the AFC championship game. Of course, it does help playing in the forever inept AFC East.

[HumanCockroach]

Sorry, you can attempt to convince me that Rivers was the second best QB all you want, I'm not biting. It isn't dissimilar to the "Palmer is a top ten QB in the NFL" debate that was on the PI last year. Just because he meets your parameters, doesn't mean he meets mine. Be sold on him all you want, hell I'm not even sure it wasn't you trumpeting Palmer as the "best QB in the NFC West" last season, or explaining how the Cowboys were going to win 13 games. ( not saying it was you, because honestly I cannot remember for sure), just saying, that someone saying Rivers, or Palmer, or Romo or whomever passes "my metrics "doesn't say really anything, but you agree with their rankings, which I certainly don't.

[Anthony]

How about strength of schedule and wins and losses? Not to mention the division they play in. Smoke and mirrors. PR is a whiny B and does not have the football mind of the top tier Qb's in the league. Maybe I'm biased due to the fact that I lost for him and Cutler years ago when they were acting like fools on the sidelines bickering back and forth during the game. They made that game about them and not their teams. Lack of cooth if you ask me. On my tablet so sorry about any grammar errors. Not really!

Dude he played twice against 2 teams with 10+ wins, PLus played Philly, and indy that is 6 playoff teams, that's pretty good and oh he went 5-1 against those teams, Again I am not a big fan of his but this year he played well.

[HumanCockroach]

Anthony, I don't think anyone is saying he didn't "play well" ( course the bar was set so incredibly low the season before that if he had performed that way again, you could probably add SD to the list of teams desperate for a new QB without much work) I think what some are saying ( me included) is that he wasn't the second best QB in the nfl. There is IMHO a chasm of difference between "playing well" and playing "elite" which a number two ranking is.

Personally, I am not saying he played poorly, just am strongly opposed to the idea that of all the QB's in the NFL he was the second best. I watched enough of him this year to base that opinion on, and so my opinion remains unchanged.

[kalibane]

That's cool HC but I think you're being stubborn. I'm not any bigger of a fan of Rivers but I can't let my bias refute what my eyse saw. It definitely wasn't me talking about Romo or Palmer. The best I could say about Palmer was that I wasn't opposed to bringing him in as a backup a couple years back.

By about week 4 last year Rivers kept popping up near the top of the QB indexes/rankings that various columnists do every week. I'm like you thinking "BS". By mid season I was fed up and started actually making a point of watching his games. It was undeniable watching him. Rivers played a brilliant season, and in my eyes played better than Brees considering supporting cast. There is nothing anyone has pointed out that can refute that except for his past, but that column wasn't about the past (or future). His decision making was impeccable, his attitude was under control and his mechanics were about flawless. He had a great season. This isn't Romo putting up good stats and then constantly choking in the big moment (and make no mistake if he wasn't a choker Romo would be a top 5 QB in this league, big if but still). Rivers was putting up numbers, making plays when it counted and more or less carrying a team devoid of talent.

Like I said, if you prefer Brees that's fine but acting like Rivers presence near the top of the heap when measuring just last season serves to invalidate an evaluation kind of shows that you're not being all that objective or at least not acknowledging you didn't really pay attention to him this year.

[RiverDog]

The fact is that Rivers, like Romo, has never gotten his team within sniffing distance of a SB. I understand that this ranking was a mechanical breakdown of their performance and limited to this season, but the team's performance has to count for something, so it's hard for me to justify putting Rivers ahead of guys like Brees, Brady, and Rodgers.

[Eaglehawk]

They give you more reasons RW is number 3 than they give as to why Rivers is number 2.

That has to tell you something right there.

[Hawktawk]

The fact is that Rivers, like Romo, has never gotten his team within sniffing distance of a SB. I understand that this ranking was a mechanical breakdown of their performance and limited to this season, but the team's performance has to count for something, so it's hard for me to justify putting Rivers ahead of guys like Brees, Brady, and Rodgers.

Ive got to quibble on that statement a little RD. Rivers is actually 4-5 in the playoffs. And he took the Bolts to a 14-2 record in 2006 only to suffer a terrible loss to the Pats in the divisional round based on a couple of boneheaded defensive penalties.Schottenheimer was inexplicably fired following the 14-2 season. The following year under Norv frigging Turner he got the Chargers to 11-5 and all the way to the Conference championship while playing the last few games on a torn ACL and with a leg so braced up it was like a fencepost. The dude has my respect, hes far more clutch than Romo, and maybe more clutch than Manning(lots of QB's are IMO.)Rivers is a baller.

[RiverDog]

The fact is that Rivers, like Romo, has never gotten his team within sniffing distance of a SB. I understand that this ranking was a mechanical breakdown of their performance and limited to this season, but the team's performance has to count for something, so it's hard for me to justify putting Rivers ahead of guys like Brees, Brady, and Rodgers.

Ive got to quibble on that statement a little RD. Rivers is actually 4-5 in the playoffs. And he took the Bolts to a 14-2 record in 2006 only to suffer a terrible loss to the Pats in the divisional round based on a couple of boneheaded defensive penalties.Schottenheimer was inexplicably fired following the 14-2 season. The following year under Norv frigging Turner he got the Chargers to 11-5 and all the way to the Conference championship while playing the last few games on a torn ACL and with a leg so braced up it was like a fencepost. The dude has my respect, hes far more clutch than Romo, and maybe more clutch than Manning(lots of QB's are IMO.)Rivers is a baller.

That record doesn't impress me much. Russell Wilson has as many playoff wins in two years as Rivers has in 10. I'm not equating Rivers with Romo as at least he's gotten his team into the playoffs with more frequency and he's not the choke artist that Romo is, but he's not a top 10 QB IMO.

[Hawktawk]

All time Rivers isn't top 50 and I'm not putting too much stock in this little survey honestly. It just gives us something to talk about But I think getting to a conference championship is "sniffing" the SB, that's my point.

And I love Russell but sometimes I think he gets so much credit that it can overshadow what a great defense he has had his entire career. Of course in the day Rivers had Gates, Sproles, LT, and a few freakish wide outs so RW hasn't had that. If this survey was about team accomplishments this year Wilson should have been #1 Manning 2 and so on.Ill settle for the fact that we have a reincarnated Fran Tarkenton only one that can win it all. Actually that isn't even fair to either player. Ive been watching the NFL for 45 years and Ive never seen anybody with quite the same game as Russell.

The fact is that Rivers, like Romo, has never gotten his team within sniffing distance of a SB. I understand that this ranking was a mechanical breakdown of their performance and limited to this season, but the team's performance has to count for something, so it's hard for me to justify putting Rivers ahead of guys like Brees, Brady, and Rodgers.

Ive got to quibble on that statement a little RD. Rivers is actually 4-5 in the playoffs. And he took the Bolts to a 14-2 record in 2006 only to suffer a terrible loss to the Pats in the divisional round based on a couple of boneheaded defensive penalties.Schottenheimer was inexplicably fired following the 14-2 season. The following year under Norv frigging Turner he got the Chargers to 11-5 and all the way to the Conference championship while playing the last few games on a torn ACL and with a leg so braced up it was like a fencepost. The dude has my respect, hes far more clutch than Romo, and maybe more clutch than Manning(lots of QB's are IMO.)Rivers is a baller.

That record doesn't impress me much. Russell Wilson has as many playoff wins in two years as Rivers has in 10. I'm not equating Rivers with Romo as at least he's gotten his team into the playoffs with more frequency and he's not the choke artist that Romo is, but he's not a top 10 QB IMO.

[RiverDog]

Yea, you're right, I forgot that the Chargers made it to the AFC Championship a few years back. Memory recall isn't one of my long suits.

Nevertheless, Rivers is average at best. I put him into the same category as Jay Cutler, plays well enough that the team doesn't consider replacing him but he can't, and won't, get them over the hump. Matt Ryan is starting to settle into that category as well.

[monkey]

I think people are really under estimating how good a year Phillip Rivers had this year.

When you parse the numbers Rivers is right there with Brees. He had a higher completion percentage. Higher Yards per attempt and Higher QBR. Brees has a slightly lower interception percentage (by .2 %) and more raw yardage and TDs. When you factor in the fact that Brees had 20% more pass attempts and Rivers' best receiver was Keenan Allen (a rookie) vs. Brees far better and more divers group of receivers, the raw yardage starts to not be as impressive.

Now you wanna say you take Brees based on intangibles and sure, it's not worth arguing over, but it's not even close to ridiculous to assert that Rivers was the 2nd best QB this year. He has as good a claim on that slot if not better than Brees. FOR THIS YEAR ONLY. And the writer of this list explicitly said to throw out past and future projections.

I could not agree more.
Rivers had a MONSTER year, had Manning not just taken the world by storm the way he did, everyone would have been talking about Rivers (and probably Wilson) as the MVP.
But no one was talking MVP, because that had been decided LONG before the season ended, because of what Manning did that was so incredible.
Still any ordinary season and Rivers is being talked about as having one heckuva year! He is a very underrated QB, mostly because of fantasy football, (he had a down year the year before, so fantasy owners were down on him).

[monkey]

Yea, you're right, I forgot that the Chargers made it to the AFC Championship a few years back. Memory recall isn't one of my long suits.

Nevertheless, Rivers is average at best. I put him into the same category as Jay Cutler, plays well enough that the team doesn't consider replacing him but he can't, and won't, get them over the hump. Matt Ryan is starting to settle into that category as well.

I completely disagree. He's one of the very best QB's playing right now, he's at worst, half a step behind the truly elites like Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady. He's at the top of that next tier.
Riv, I think you should watch more Chargers games...Rivers is an absolute stud QB.

[Eaglehawk]

Never heard anyone talk about Rivers this past season.
No one.

But stats don't lie. They can be manipulated, but they don't lie.

[RiverDog]

I think people are really under estimating how good a year Phillip Rivers had this year.

When you parse the numbers Rivers is right there with Brees. He had a higher completion percentage. Higher Yards per attempt and Higher QBR. Brees has a slightly lower interception percentage (by .2 %) and more raw yardage and TDs. When you factor in the fact that Brees had 20% more pass attempts and Rivers' best receiver was Keenan Allen (a rookie) vs. Brees far better and more divers group of receivers, the raw yardage starts to not be as impressive.

Now you wanna say you take Brees based on intangibles and sure, it's not worth arguing over, but it's not even close to ridiculous to assert that Rivers was the 2nd best QB this year. He has as good a claim on that slot if not better than Brees. FOR THIS YEAR ONLY. And the writer of this list explicitly said to throw out past and future projections.

I could not agree more.
Rivers had a MONSTER year, had Manning not just taken the world by storm the way he did, everyone would have been talking about Rivers (and probably Wilson) as the MVP.
But no one was talking MVP, because that had been decided LONG before the season ended, because of what Manning did that was so incredible.
Still any ordinary season and Rivers is being talked about as having one heckuva year! He is a very underrated QB, mostly because of fantasy football, (he had a down year the year before, so fantasy owners were down on him).

Mathew Stafford has been putting up some monster numbers, too. Maybe we should start talking about him as MVP.

I wouldn't mind having those guys on my fantasy team, but they're second tier when it comes to the conventional quarterbacks like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and it goes without saying that I'd take Russell Wilson long before I'd take Phillp Rivers.