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https://www.fieldgulls.com/2024/9/3/24234391/nfl-news-pete-carroll-marshawn-lynch-politickin-podcast-seahawks-super-bowl-49-play

As close as we might get to know exactly what happened on that play call. Not really surprising that Bevell made the call as I always thought he made the call as that is how the game works. Your O Coordinator calls the offense. As straight from Pete as it gets and Marshawn translating.

Bevell made a bad call and I don't care how many people tell me otherwise or even if the play had been successful, it was a bad call. Never should have been made. Misuse of personnel for such a pivotal moment in the biggest game of their careers an the franchise.

I didn't think that there was a controversy over who called the play. The way I understood it was that Bevell told Pete that we were throwing on that down and that Pete never objected, nor would it have been wise for him to have done so as it would have required using our last timeout. I think it's pretty commonplace for a head coach who is not calling his own offensive plays not to be consulted by the play caller and would only be given a general description of a 2rd down play unless there was a timeout. There's only a matter of a few seconds to make a decision and no time for equivocation or debate.

Some of the conspiracy theory rumors were downright asinine, that Pete didn't want Marshawn to get the MVP award, which may have happened had Beast been given the ball and scored, and instead wanted Russell to win it.

Personally, I never had an objection with throwing in that situation and felt that the rationale given for doing so, that we could preserve our timeout and still be assured of being able to use all 4 downs, was sound. But obviously, the play call and execution were horrible. Having a 5'10" quarterback throw from the pocket and short over the middle in an extremely compressed field was just asking for something bad to happen.

At that moment, the thing I was thinking about was being able to run the clock down as far as we could and leave Brady as little time on the game clock as possible. I didn't want to see us score on that down. All the Pats would have needed was a FG to tie the game.

To Pete's credit, he accepted responsibility for the call and the loss. Pete may be a lot of things, but he doesn't throw his players and coaches under the bus. Sometimes, I think it's an overdone strength of his, that he's too loyal, takes too much on himself.

I thought it was interesting to see Marshawn and Pete talking openly about it after both are gone from the team. In the moment and while head coach and in the league, you have to keep silent on these issues to keep the peace and not bad mouth anyone. But Marshawn and Pete discussed how salty Marshawn was at the decision and how much it still hurts to have lost the rare opportunity to win back to back SBs. It shows how even one coach making a bad play call can set the entire team up for failure. This could have been completely avoided had a better call been made, but wham bam decision made, heartbreak and rage to follow and a slow descent into mediocrity all from one bad play call. That play started an unraveling that impacted the team and various players in some crazy ways after the fact. A bad play call in a moment that big really has a horrible impact on the psychology of a team and the players.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I thought it was interesting to see Marshawn and Pete talking openly about it after both are gone from the team. In the moment and while head coach and in the league, you have to keep silent on these issues to keep the peace and not bad mouth anyone. But Marshawn and Pete discussed how salty Marshawn was at the decision and how much it still hurts to have lot the rare opportunity to win back to back SBs. It shows how even one coach making a bad play call can set the entire team up for failure. This could have been completely avoided had a better call been made, but wham bam decision made, heartbreak and rage to follow and a slow descent into mediocrity all from one bad play call. That play started an unraveling that impacted the team and various players in some crazy ways after the fact. A bad play call in a moment that big really has a horrible impact on the psychology of a team and the players.

Yep. That play was the beginning of the end. You could see it on the following play, when Brady knelt down to kill the clock and our defense started a fight. They weren't made at the Patriots, they were mad at Russell, Pete, Bevell, et al for denying them something that they felt was theirs even though it was our defense that blew a 2-score lead going into the 4th quarter.

It was all downhill from that play on. Pete couldn't hold the team together, couldn't get them to put it behind them. That's when the stories about the team, mostly the defense, feeling that Russell wasn't black enough, Michael Bennett reading books during team meetings, etc, started coming out of the locker room, and ended with Earl flipping off Pete when he was being carried off the field. Pete's rah rah bubble gum motivational tactics worked well to build a team, but it couldn't hold them together.

I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Besides losing the Super Bowl at the 2 yard line, a bad play call and even worse execution made Patriots look like heroes. There's no asterisk for gift wrapping a win by making an awful call like that. No amount of time will pass nor the three shots of Jameson I slammed right after will make this better.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Bevell made a bad call and I don't care how many people tell me otherwise or even if the play had been successful, it was a bad call. Never should have been made. Misuse of personnel for such a pivotal moment in the biggest game of their careers an the franchise.

It was such a one-trick pony. There was only one way that play was going to go. Still don't know why Pete didn't call a timeout when he saw what was lining up.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Besides losing the Super Bowl at the 2 yard line, a bad play call and even worse execution made Patriots look like heroes. There's no asterisk for gift wrapping a win by making an awful call like that. No amount of time will pass nor the three shots of Jameson I slammed right after will make this better.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Bevell made a bad call and I don't care how many people tell me otherwise or even if the play had been successful, it was a bad call. Never should have been made. Misuse of personnel for such a pivotal moment in the biggest game of their careers an the franchise.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:It was such a one-trick pony. There was only one way that play was going to go. Still don't know why Pete didn't call a timeout when he saw what was lining up.

There's no way that Pete should have called a timeout in that situation as we had just one left and we needed it to preserve a run/pass option on the next two downs. Besides, Pete was standing at field level and wouldn't have been able to see exactly how the teams were lining up, who was covering who, etc. The Pats had their heavy package in, so we should have had an advantage. Hindsight is 20/20.

In retrospect, Pete probably should have fired Bevell that offseason, not just for that one play, but that the team had lost confidence in him and the offense in general. The Percy Harvin debacle had happened a few months before the Super Bowl, Harvin refusing to go into the game when instructed by Bevell to do so, after which Beast almost didn't board the bus to the airport when he found out that Harvin had been traded. Harvin was a true cancer and had to go, but it takes two to make a fight and Bevell had to have had some responsibility for how that situation went. Bevell had Harvin in Minnesota and likely had a lot to do with that trade, or if he didn't, should have nixed it as he knew what kind of a head case Harvin was.

Firing Bevell would have sent a signal to the team that everyone, including the coaches, are held responsible for their actions. But instead, Pete's defense of both Bevell and Russell sent the exact opposite message.

Aseahawkfan wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2024/9/3/24234391/nfl-news-pete-carroll-marshawn-lynch-politickin-podcast-seahawks-super-bowl-49-play

As close as we might get to know exactly what happened on that play call. Not really surprising that Bevell made the call as I always thought he made the call as that is how the game works. Your O Coordinator calls the offense. As straight from Pete as it gets and Marshawn translating.

Bevell made a bad call and I don't care how many people tell me otherwise or even if the play had been successful, it was a bad call. Never should have been made. Misuse of personnel for such a pivotal moment in the biggest game of their careers an the franchise.

Pretty much as always had it figured. Bevel made a horrible call, Pete let him and then took the heat for it as 'the man the buck stops with' and all. Still the worst call in SB history and a major tarnish on Pete's legacy, let alone being the call that killed a dynasty in the making.

River Dog wrote:Yep. That play was the beginning of the end. You could see it on the following play, when Brady knelt down to kill the clock and our defense started a fight. They weren't made at the Patriots, they were mad at Russell, Pete, Bevell, et al for denying them something that they felt was theirs even though it was our defense that blew a 2-score lead going into the 4th quarter.

It was all downhill from that play on. Pete couldn't hold the team together, couldn't get them to put it behind them. That's when the stories about the team, mostly the defense, feeling that Russell wasn't black enough, Michael Bennett reading books during team meetings, etc, started coming out of the locker room, and ended with Earl flipping off Pete when he was being carried off the field. Pete's rah rah bubble gum motivational tactics worked well to build a team, but it couldn't hold them together.

There are reasons I don't blame the defense or offense for that game. Given the injuries on both units, I'm not even sure how we made the Super Bowl. Offense going into the Super Bowl was missing major pieces. Our WR corps was down to Doug Baldwin, Kearse, Ricardo Lockette, and some guy we just signed a few weeks ago that Russ made look like a contender for Super Bowl MVP that didn't even stay in the league long after that game.

The defense when Brady started coming back had lost two CBs and was on the third string CB and Cliff Avril had went out and they shifted all protection to Bennett. The backup DE could not continue to pressure Brady. Brady and Bill directly went after the third string CB and crushed him.

So we had no room for cute plays at the goal line with Lockette. No room for error. We were already too depleted and should have just won or lost relying on our big horses like Lynch, Wilson, and Baldwin on offense in that area. If they beat our big horses, so be it. But you don't start calling idiot plays when you have no room for error and don't have the personnel for that level of precision in that high pressure a situation with that little time left. No time to recover from a mistake.

We already had bad injury luck, Then Bevell adds in excessive expectations from the personnel, specifically Lockette.

As far as the rest, I don't think Pete's coaching style mattered. Only thing that would have fixed the disappointment and team psychology was getting back to the SB and competing again. But natural team decay took over with injuries and Father Time which happens to every team and why it is so hard to go to a second SB.

Aseahawkfan wrote:There are reasons I don't blame the defense or offense for that game. Given the injuries on both units, I'm not even sure how we made the Super Bowl. Offense going into the Super Bowl was missing major pieces. Our WR corps was down to Doug Baldwin, Kearse, Ricardo Lockette, and some guy we just signed a few weeks ago that Russ made look like a contender for Super Bowl MVP that didn't even stay in the league long after that game.

The defense when Brady started coming back had lost two CBs and was on the third string CB and Cliff Avril had went out and they shifted all protection to Bennett. The backup DE could not continue to pressure Brady. Brady and Bill directly went after the third string CB and crushed him.

So we had no room for cute plays at the goal line with Lockette. No room for error. We were already too depleted and should have just won or lost relying on our big horses like Lynch, Wilson, and Baldwin on offense in that area. If they beat our big horses, so be it. But you don't start calling idiot plays when you have no room for error and don't have the personnel for that level of precision in that high pressure a situation with that little time left. No time to recover from a mistake.

We already had bad injury luck, Then Bevell adds in excessive expectations from the personnel, specifically Lockette.

As far as the rest, I don't think Pete's coaching style mattered. Only thing that would have fixed the disappointment and team psychology was getting back to the SB and competing again. But natural team decay took over with injuries and Father Time which happens to every team and why it is so hard to go to a second SB.

I don't particularly blame either unit, either. I was just saying that the defense realistically couldn't blame the offense when they got the game to the 4th quarter with a two-score lead. Any self-respecting defense in the league would take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But the narrative coming out of our locker room was that the defense blamed Pete, Bevell, and Russell for that loss, everyone but themselves.

As far as what the future held from that point on, we still had a damn good defense the following season. In the 2015 season, we were ranked #2 in yards surrendered, #1 in points scored, and we still hadn't lost a game by more than 10 points, losing in the playoffs to the Panthers by a touchdown after we had spotted them 31 points in the first half. It wasn't until 2016 when the wheels started to come off the wagon. Pete never again fielded a top 10 defense after the 2016 season.

River Dog wrote:I don't particularly blame either unit, either. I was just saying that the defense realistically couldn't blame the offense when they got the game to the 4th quarter with a two-score lead. Any self-respecting defense in the league would take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But the narrative coming out of our locker room was that the defense blamed Pete, Bevell, and Russell for that loss, everyone but themselves.

As far as what the future held from that point on, we still had a damn good defense the following season. In the 2015 season, we were ranked #2 in yards surrendered, #1 in points scored, and we still hadn't lost a game by more than 10 points, losing in the playoffs to the Panthers by a touchdown after we had spotted them 31 points in the first half. It wasn't until 2016 when the wheels started to come off the wagon. Pete never again fielded a top 10 defense after the 2016 season.

Yep. Didn't get back and then the team went through the normal process of decay over the years. Pete and John never found the magic again drafting. That's why those periods are so rare and hard to replicate. There's always a little bit of unexplainable magic that occurs when a team is that good and comes together to do something amazing. Every single great team past and present has had this magic whether the Steelers when they won four, the Cowboys 3 in the 90s, or Frisco in the 80s, and of course the Patriots for two decades came the closest to replication because of the QB and head coach, more the QB though.

Hard to rebuild it. Right now KC Chiefs are the magic team. Mahomes is the insane talent driving that team to new heights with a quality head coach like Reid finally finding his elite, superstar QB.

It really sucks our magic team was ruined by a rotten call. That's all it takes is one absolutely rotten call with the worst possible outcome to ruin magic. It led to the resurgence of the Patriots as they were the decaying team before they beat us. That game was the turning point for the Patriots second dynastic run. Gave them confidence and sent them back on the upswing.

Damn annoying.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Yep. Didn't get back and then the team went through the normal process of decay over the years. Pete and John never found the magic again drafting. That's why those periods are so rare and hard to replicate. There's always a little bit of unexplainable magic that occurs when a team is that good and comes together to do something amazing. Every single great team past and present has had this magic whether the Steelers when they won four, the Cowboys 3 in the 90s, or Frisco in the 80s, and of course the Patriots for two decades came the closest to replication because of the QB and head coach, more the QB though.

Hard to rebuild it. Right now KC Chiefs are the magic team. Mahomes is the insane talent driving that team to new heights with a quality head coach like Reid finally finding his elite, superstar QB.

It really sucks our magic team was ruined by a rotten call. That's all it takes is one absolutely rotten call with the worst possible outcome to ruin magic. It led to the resurgence of the Patriots as they were the decaying team before they beat us. That game was the turning point for the Patriots second dynastic run. Gave them confidence and sent them back on the upswing.

Damn annoying.

The players have to take some of the blame, too. Kam held out even though he was getting paid top dollar and had 3 years left on his contract. Bennett copped a real attitude, started a major distraction with his anthem kneeling. Bruce Irvin pouted when we didn't pick up his 5th year option. Earl flipping off Pete when he was carried off the field. Sure, we can say that Pete wasn't tough enough, but those guys could have been better, made Pete's job easier. Some of those guys were really selfish.

The other thing that happened shortly afterwards was Paul Allen passing away.

10-4 about the Chiefs. They still have a ways to go to equal with the Patriots did, but they aren't showing any signs of slowing down. It will be interesting to see them playing the Ravens tomorrow night. I'm ready for some football!

River Dog wrote:The players have to take some of the blame, too. Kam held out even though he was getting paid top dollar and had 3 years left on his contract. Bennett copped a real attitude, started a major distraction with his anthem kneeling. Bruce Irvin pouted when we didn't pick up his 5th year option. Earl flipping off Pete when he was carried off the field. Sure, we can say that Pete wasn't tough enough, but those guys could have been better, made Pete's job easier. Some of those guys were really selfish.

The other thing that happened shortly afterwards was Paul Allen passing away.

10-4 about the Chiefs. They still have a ways to go to equal with the Patriots did, but they aren't showing any signs of slowing down. It will be interesting to see them playing the Ravens tomorrow night. I'm ready for some football!

I never think about Pete being tough enough. I don't think that has anything to do with it. Players did go somewhat crazy which you can't account for as Earl even after leaving the team has fallen on hard times. Sherm seems to have recovered thankfully. Kam has been quiet. Browner ended up in prison. Everyone else seems to be doing fine. Russ is still Russ. Not sure he will ever change, but he leveraged his early success into some huge paydays that if he managed the money well will leave him wealthy for the rest of his life.

Why did the team fall apart? For me it was all the years of bad drafting that led us where we ended up. Too many mistakes in the draft, too many trades for quick fixes, and a move away from the original philosophy of draft and develop that worked so well the first time.

I do speculate that the Super Bowl loss influenced this strategy as Pete became so desperate to get back to the Super Bowl that he didn't want to go back to step one. He thought he had the horses to jump back to the SB with some key trade or move and the team had fallen apart requiring a rebuild. It wasn't close. He should have done a full on rebuild to get back. But this is speculation as to what drove all these trades.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Why did the team fall apart? For me it was all the years of bad drafting that led us where we ended up. Too many mistakes in the draft, too many trades for quick fixes, and a move away from the original philosophy of draft and develop that worked so well the first time.

Bad drafting compounded by bad trades. Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams top the list. There were a lot of years that we went into the draft without a first-round pick. I also think that he over valued wide receivers and running backs, undervalued the offensive and defensive lines, but that's just my opinion. But there's no doubt that those three trades really hurt.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I do speculate that the Super Bowl loss influenced this strategy as Pete became so desperate to get back to the Super Bowl that he didn't want to go back to step one. He thought he had the horses to jump back to the SB with some key trade or move and the team had fallen apart requiring a rebuild. It wasn't close. He should have done a full on rebuild to get back. But this is speculation as to what drove all these trades.

Quite possible. I also thought that he got a little too cocky, that he believed in his principles to such a degree that it made him inflexible, prevented him from trying something different, like opening up our offense.

All that is in the past. Sunday starts a new regime, a new era of Seahawk football. I can't wait!

River Dog wrote:All that is in the past. Sunday starts a new regime, a new era of Seahawk football. I can't wait!

I want a good defense again. I hate watching us get walked on. For quite a few years even when the offense had a lead going into the fourth quarter, I felt like the defense was going to give it up or give up some key down. I want that to end. It feels terrible to not be able to hold leads or stop first downs or have the defense on the field so long they get worn down because they suck.

River Dog wrote:All that is in the past. Sunday starts a new regime, a new era of Seahawk football. I can't wait!

Aseahawkfan wrote:I want a good defense again. I hate watching us get walked on. For quite a few years even when the offense had a lead going into the fourth quarter, I felt like the defense was going to give it up or give up some key down. I want that to end. It feels terrible to not be able to hold leads or stop first downs or have the defense on the field so long they get worn down because they suck.

Yeah, me, too. It was embarrassing to have a defensive minded head coach like Pete and not be able to put a better product on the field over those past 6-7 years. I'm anxious to see how they look. Denver is a weak opponent, one of the worst in the league according to most of the power rankings, and they're starting a rookie quarterback, so I'm expecting a good performance out of them.