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I wanted to take everyone's temperature on K9. There are extensive discussions about Geno and DK that seem to sweep into multiple threads, but I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on K9.

I love rooting for this kid, but there is a slight part of me that still is wondering when he is going to be the breakout star that he was at Michigan State. There is no question I believe he is our number one tailback on the roster, but I am starting to wonder has his ceiling been hit? I know injuries play a role, and that seems to be part of his pro career now. I am aware our O Line is well below average, but even dynamic star running backs can make up for those. He is approaching contract discussions, and I am wondering if he is in our future plans going forward, or do we pick up his final year option and let him walk? Has he done enough to lock him into a 3 or 4 year deal with money guaranteed? My opinion, I like K9 a lot, but I am just waiting for him to carry a game or two consistently and I just feel at times he hasn't produced. Maybe Grubb was to blame, or the O line, but like I said unique dynamic tailbacks often can make their offense look a lot better, or he is truly not at that level?

So just wondering what everyone's thoughts on K9 moving forward?

Great question. I'm also not sure. He was banged up and played in an offense that didn't exactly favor the run, so I don't think he was really set up to succeed. That said, there were times I definitely thought Charbonnet hit the hole more quickly and I found myself wishing that Walker did the same. I guess I think that I'd say Walker is RB1 and see what he can do with a more run-friendly OC, but at this point I'm not seeing the breakout potential that I was hoping to see.

Oly wrote:Great question. I'm also not sure. He was banged up and played in an offense that didn't exactly favor the run, so I don't think he was really set up to succeed. That said, there were times I definitely thought Charbonnet hit the hole more quickly and I found myself wishing that Walker did the same. I guess I think that I'd say Walker is RB1 and see what he can do with a more run-friendly OC, but at this point I'm not seeing the breakout potential that I was hoping to see.

The thing with ZC is that he played a lot better in the passing game too, he was a better receiving running back IMO over K9. Looking back at some of those goal line runs that K9 was stuffed on in short yardage situation, with like 2 to 3 yards to go. Most often the o-line didn't get the push needed, but when they did slamming K9 up the middle didn't result in much of a push, and he got stuffed in his tracks quite often. Those were the times I wish Zach was in the game in that situation. However, bouncing it to the outside is when K9 was having some success as he can cut shaper than Zach. I think most of us were relieved how well Zach performed in K9's absence, but when we had them full force it was like K9 couldn't get going some games. Maybe our O-Line was truly that bad?

The OL has sucked for the better part of the last decade. Walker, to me seems to be the type who would play better as a tailback with the QB under Center so he’s seeing the whole line and can see the holes better. As well, it gives him the advantage of hitting any hole at close to full speed. Charbonnet, it seems to me ran better when he was the guy and not a change of pace type of RB. He’s also a good blocker on pass plays.

As he’s a FA after this year the Seahawks have to figure out if they want to extend Walker and it’s complicated a bit by this draft being deep at RB in the mid rounds. Another question is will the Offense be a power scheme and could Walker fit in the new Offense better than a young RB that might be found in the draft?

NorthHawk wrote:The OL has sucked for the better part of the last decade. Walker, to me seems to be the type who would play better as a tailback with the QB under Center so he’s seeing the whole line and can see the holes better. As well, it gives him the advantage of hitting any hole at close to full speed. Charbonnet, it seems to me ran better when he was the guy and not a change of pace type of RB. He’s also a good blocker on pass plays.

As he’s a FA after this year the Seahawks have to figure out if they want to extend Walker and it’s complicated a bit by this draft being deep at RB in the mid rounds. Another question is will the Offense be a power scheme and could Walker fit in the new Offense better than a young RB that might be found in the draft?

Very good point. I would presume these decisions will be influenced with a new OC at the helm. With a fresh stock of RBs coming up in this draft, I would not mind spending a 4th(if he were to drop that far) on Cam Skattebo. He is more of a H Back than a tailback, but there isn't a single college player to enter this upcoming draft that carried his team more than Cam for the Sun Devils. Talk about putting your team on your back. No one in history has ever won the MVP of the Peach Bowl on a losing team, and he did for the Sun Devils and did it while suffering some slight food poisoning too.

Anyways, back to K9 it's going to be interesting to see what scheme fits him better. I like your point of a QB under center. However, the other question is can K9 play out a full season uninjured? I mean he isn't at Rashaad Penny level, but it's always a concern.

For Walker it comes down to can he stay healthy. If he can, he's great. If he can't, he's a guy riding the bench giving us nothing.

Aseahawkfan wrote:For Walker it comes down to can he stay healthy. If he can, he's great. If he can't, he's a guy riding the bench giving us nothing.

Again behind a crap o-line and a pass happy OC, when healthy he still didn't perform to "great." However, he wasn't flat out horrible either

If he gets past the LoS, he’s a threat to go to the house. But the OL…

His story is starting to look a lot like Raashad Penny's. Lot's of potential but you can't keep him on the field enough of the time to have his skill set make much of a difference.

4XPIPS wrote:Again behind a crap o-line and a pass happy OC, when healthy he still didn't perform to "great." However, he wasn't flat out horrible either

I'm not really grading him on one year. Even in a bad year like this one, he had 7 TDs and 3.7 yards per carry. He missed six games. Walker needs to stay healthy and get some good blocking.

Seems every RB we've had not named Marshawn can't make it through a season healthy after a few years of playing behind a bad O-line as they get injured trying to grind yards with no holes.

We're not the only team that has trouble keeping running backs healthy. it's the riskiest position on the field. In our division alone, the Niners lost two RB's, CMC and Elijah Mitchell, to IR while the Cards lost starting RB James Conner. The Rams are the only team in our division that didn't lose their starting running back, perhaps one of the reasons why they won the division.

Don't get me wrong, IMO K9 is one of the top 5 running backs in the league. But he doesn't do us much good sitting in a whirlpool.

It's the riskiest position on the field, and one of the big reasons why I always cringe when we spend high draft picks on running backs. Memories of CJ Prosise and Rashaad Penny keep flashing into my mind. If I'm the GM, I'd put a 3rd round cap on any potential running back my coach wanted to draft.

I'm the exact opposite. Because the run game is so important for the Offense, I say keep drafting the best RB you can get every few years and then move on from the ones that can't stay healthy or whose injuries are impacting their performance.

NorthHawk wrote:I'm the exact opposite. Because the run game is so important for the Offense, I say keep drafting the best RB you can get every few years and then move on from the ones that can't stay healthy or whose injuries are impacting their performance.

You can find some pretty darn good running backs in the later rounds. We picked up Kenny McIntosh for a 7th rounder, and IMO he looks every bit as good as Zach who we spent a 2nd on. Same with Chris Carson. Even when Penny was healthy, he couldn't beat out a 7th round pick. I'd much rather see us using our higher picks on offensive linemen. Besides, most running backs are two down players. And the game has changed from what we all were born and raised on. It's a quarterback's league.

We all seem to agree that our top priority is improving our offensive line, particularly the interior. If we're going to do that, we need to downgrade a position that in the past was considered a higher priority, and I say that running back should be one of those positions that gets downgraded some in that we can improve what we all recognize as our greatest weakness.

The best RBs are selected early- just like the best WRs, DTs, WRs etc. The requirement for success later in the draft is great scouting which we haven’t done very well of late and most teams are the same.

I feel K9 is, talent wise, one of the best RB's in the NFL. He is an absolute beast who can make some pretty special plays athletically. Obviously we all know his injuries through the first 3 years, although I think I read he has only technically missed 7 games over the last 2 years, it feels like more than that, probably because some of those he was injured during the game so still counts as a start.

I will say this though. I find him maddening to watch on 1st downs when he takes a TFL going east-west looking to break it instead of just burying his head, taking contact, and turning it into a 3-4 yard gain to set up a 2nd and medium. I feel the Hawks were horrible for having 2nd down distance to go, and I think K9 was a big reason for that. He feels he can make a house call every carry which can be detrimental to the team game.

The O-line hasn't helped alot with the run game, but I think Charbonnet shows it's not as bad as it looks when K9 is in there. Charbonnet doesn't have near the talent that K9 has, but Charbonnet will take the tough yards and set the team up better. I imagine K9 has frustrated the offense at times, yet they know his pure talent is undeniable. He seems like a good dude too, quiet, humble, goes about his business and appears to be a great teammate.

Will be interesting to see how they approach his contract situation and see if they can get him in check with taking a 3-4 yard gain instead of looking to break it all the time and taking TFL's and causing holding penalties on the O-line. I am honestly enamoured with his talent and toughness.

NorthHawk wrote:The best RBs are selected early- just like the best WRs, DTs, WRs etc. The requirement for success later in the draft is great scouting which we haven’t done very well of late and most teams are the same.

The Pete Carroll/John Schneider formula to a "T". And it's worked so well for us, hasn't it?

River Dog wrote:IMO K9 is one of the top 5 running backs in the league. But he doesn't do us much good sitting in a whirlpool.

I agree with most of your points, except I don't think at this stage K9 is top 5 in the league. I don't think he cracks the top 10 when healthy, and again it maybe cause he isn't used correctly or the blocking scheme is crap and/or the O-Line talent is that trash.

The Pete Carroll/John Schneider formula to a "T". And it's worked so well for us, hasn't it

It isn’t because they’ve ignored obvious needs early at other positions. The teams that are good now have mostly drafted for the future all across the board. JS has mostly ignored the core of the OL which is our ongoing issue on Offense.

Well as I mentioned it before it happened, there were rumors that DK would be traded to the Chargers, and weeks later he was traded to the Steelers. Now I am reading rumors that the Hawks are looking to traded Kenneth Walker to the Raiders, for a 6th round pick? Excuse me! I know this is a rumor, but for that low of a pick I would rather not. Anyhow, once again these are rumors but who know if this could possibly happen. I am wondering if the Hawks are looking to shop him around and later acquire a tailback that works more for Kubiak's offense.

https://www.si.com/college/michiganstat ... as-raiders

The 6th round is just about where Schneider will try to fix the IOL and look for Centers and Guards, so I can see it happening. /s

I can see it happening, though because the Seahawks can get a pretty good RB in the mid rounds and not have to worry about contracts or Cap hits for 4 years and it may be that Walkers running style doesn't fit the Shanahan one cut style that's required to hit the hole on time.

NorthHawk wrote:The 6th round is just about where Schneider will try to fix the IOL and look for Centers and Guards, so I can see it happening. /s

I can see it happening, though because the Seahawks can get a pretty good RB in the mid rounds and not have to worry about contracts or Cap hits for 4 years and it may be that Walkers running style doesn't fit the Shanahan one cut style that's required to hit the hole on time.

I always believe you can never have enough quality RBs on the roster as they are likely to suffer more injuries from contact, and use. He isn't costing us too much to keep him, and he is a home run hitter if he can develop into a quality offense. However, you are right about our OL, if it's trash why not just get another rookie rental in the 4th to 5th round in a draft. Just getting a 6th for him isn't bargain, but maybe his injury concerns are keeping his value down.

K9 is pretty good in the red zone. 6th round pick seems pretty low. I'd prefer to keep him. He's young. He seems to have a nose for TDs. If they actually build a decent O-line, he might reach his full potential. This guy averages 8 TDs a year. That's a lot of red zone production to give up.

A 6th round pick for Walker seems a bit low, but I'm often guilty of overvaluing the players we have (see the DK thread). Maybe the market is right about there for him.

Teams have to consider the equivalent value and skill sets in the draft. Selecting a good RB in the 2nd is a lot cheaper than re-signing an encumbent to a 2nd contract.
In some cases it's worth it for the top players - and it's true for all positions, but those players are hard to find and luck plays a part in finding them, too.

For my money, I would draft a good RB every 3 years so we could let the veteran go to FA and get a Comp pick while hopefully selecting an equivalent replacement. Unless the existing RB turns out to be a clear generational talent or perfect for the system.

This years draft is said to be deep at RB, so getting a good player in the 2nd or 3rd and maybe 4th might be a consideration for Seattle. But I have no idea what their thought process is. They may have decided that like stated above, Walkers' style isn't a good fit for our Offense or conversely he's a perfect fit. We'll have to wait and see how it unfolds.

4XPIPS wrote:Well as I mentioned it before it happened, there were rumors that DK would be traded to the Chargers, and weeks later he was traded to the Steelers. Now I am reading rumors that the Hawks are looking to traded Kenneth Walker to the Raiders, for a 6th round pick? Excuse me! I know this is a rumor, but for that low of a pick I would rather not. Anyhow, once again these are rumors but who know if this could possibly happen. I am wondering if the Hawks are looking to shop him around and later acquire a tailback that works more for Kubiak's offense.

https://www.si.com/college/michiganstat ... as-raiders

IMO it's click bait. Walker is a solid if not spectacular running back. Unless someone offers us a 2nd day pick, which ain't happening, I don't think we let him go.

Walker is a homerun hitter, yes, but he is injury prone more than most. Since his first year, we just haven't been able to keep him on the field long enough for him to get into a rhythm so as to make much of an impact. Besides that, he's not a good pass blocker.

Not a lot of RBs are 3 down backs. The ones who are good at the College level are rarely asked to stay in and block so they don't develop the pass blocking techniques. Charbonnet is a pretty good blocker and he's a pretty good running back if he's the main guy, but he's not a real home run hitter like Walker. Walker isn't a bad receiver out of the backfield, though so he isn't dead weight on pass plays and could be an asset in the new Offense provided the OL is competent.

River Dog wrote:IMO it's click bait. Walker is a solid if not spectacular running back. Unless someone offers us a 2nd day pick, which ain't happening, I don't think we let him go.

Yes that's how the DK trade started, it was just rumors/click bait. However, sports agents have been known to do this at times, and leak stories to NFL insiders, who then post and talk about the "what ifs" and the "oh this would look good" to get some national reaction, which then carries out to the front office of the NFL teams. So even thought this is a rumor, the NFL insiders are getting tips out there from sources.

I'd much rather have Walker than a 6th. Sure, I think that Charbonnet may be a better zone fit, and that Walker's talents might be wasted in our system, but we don't need the cap savings and the chance a 6th rounder is going to be as good as Walker is very low.

River Dog wrote:IMO it's click bait. Walker is a solid if not spectacular running back. Unless someone offers us a 2nd day pick, which ain't happening, I don't think we let him go.

4XPIPS wrote:Yes that's how the DK trade started, it was just rumors/click bait. However, sports agents have been known to do this at times, and leak stories to NFL insiders, who then post and talk about the "what ifs" and the "oh this would look good" to get some national reaction, which then carries out to the front office of the NFL teams. So even thought this is a rumor, the NFL insiders are getting tips out there from sources.

Oh, I agree that's how most trades come to fruition, that they start out as rumors. I just don't believe this one and feel it was started by some sportswriter looking for stories to report on. JMHO.

Oly wrote:I'd much rather have Walker than a 6th. Sure, I think that Charbonnet may be a better zone fit, and that Walker's talents might be wasted in our system, but we don't need the cap savings and the chance a 6th rounder is going to be as good as Walker is very low.

Bingo! If it were a 2nd day pick, then maybe. But not for a 6th.

Well the rumors keep building up. Someone with in the league is putting it out there, and maybe K9 is on the trading block, well I guess who isn't for the right price.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/sea ... 7f981652ba

4XPIPS wrote:Well the rumors keep building up. Someone with in the league is putting it out there, and maybe K9 is on the trading block, well I guess who isn't for the right price.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/sea ... 7f981652ba

Still just rumors. They don't even cite "unnamed sources close to the Seahawks organization" as a reference. It's like a mock draft. Opinion and speculation.

And as usual, they are all using the same bit of speculations and their source material. Doesn't mean he's not available for trade, sometimes these guesses are after all marginally educated guesses, but I'll wait till something actually happens.

There are sometimes also people in that business hearing things from other scouts or GM's. We don't know if it's just media conjecture or someone overhearing something and misinterpreting it or if it's a real thing but we do know that Kubiak has had time to watch all the film on Walker and has a better view of if Walker fits his Offense. Maybe Walker is just the RB for that system or maybe he's too hesitant for a 1 cut and go type of running game.
However with his injury history and this year being one of the best RB classes in the draft for many years and not just at the top, it might make sense to our FO to move on with a different RB who's not yet had injuries and who might fit the system.

NorthHawk wrote:However with his injury history and this year being one of the best RB classes in the draft for many years and not just at the top, it might make sense to our FO to move on with a different RB who's not yet had injuries and who might fit the system.

That I agree with. Walker is heading into his final year of his contract, and with his injury history it would seem unlikely that we'll resign him. There's a good, logical reason for getting ahead of that and get what we can for him while we still have him under contract. But not for a 6th rounder. He's worth more to us than that for just this one season.

He may be worth more, but with the competition from the high number of draftable RB’s this year, his compensation, or value if you will would be suppressed. The timing is bad but that’s the breaks.

NorthHawk wrote:He may be worth more, but with the competition from the high number of draftable RB’s this year, his compensation, or value if you will would be suppressed. The timing is bad but that’s the breaks.

Which is one of the reasons why I don't think this trade is happening. There's no demand for him.

He’s also electric and we are reverting back to run first. Charb’s ceiling isn’t as high. Kubiak’s outside zone scheme is a fit for K9’s speed and elusiveness. But who knows what they’re doing this off-season.

K9 is starting his fourth year. Last year was marred by injuries, but prior to that he only missed a few games according to the game trackers. Even in a down year where he missed 6 games, still ended the year with 7 TDs. I feel like K9 behind a good O-line with a more dynamic QB could be pretty good. I'd like to keep the guy. I think he's better than Charbonnet, though they seem to make a good team as Charbs seems more of a north-south runner. They seem like a good, young team.

The two of them put up 15 TDs together last year. That is behind a pretty poor O-line and ok QB play.

But will we have a good OL this year? Chances are no, we won't.