Goodell a goner?

[Long Time Fan]

I watched the mob gather, pitchforks at the ready and I questioned the rational. The more that I thought about it, I can see the rational. I now hold a pitchfork.

[kalibane]

He won't be gone unless there continues to be public pressure or pressure from sponsors. The "independent" investigation is a stall tactic. The owners like Goodell and they are counting on the furor dying down, they'll find that Goodell never saw the tape and there is not enough evidence to justify termination.

I just think he should go. The unnecessary destruction of the Spy Gate tapes that just foster conspiracy theory, mismanaged the concussion thing, mismanaged the referees, and this domestic abuse issue has been an absolute debacle. Neither the fans nor the players trust him at all.

I don't get why they are so attached to him. He's really not responsible for the increased ratings or money. Those increases were just a freight train that he hopped on half way to its destination. From what I've heard the TV deal negotiations are a joke... basically it's "here's our price, if you won't meet it there is another network who wants the package". A trained monkey could do that. The only thing I can figure is that they just like having a lackey in that position because there is no risk that he'll do something that he feels is for the good of the game that doesn't also serve the immediate needs of the owners.

[RiverDog]

Whether he's complicant or not, he has to be sacrificed. It's the only thing that's going to satisfy the jackals and sharks that the league is interested in repairing its image. And he is at least partly to blame for this mess.

[Hawktawk]

He won't be gone unless there continues to be public pressure or pressure from sponsors. The "independent" investigation is a stall tactic. The owners like Goodell and they are counting on the furor dying down, they'll find that Goodell never saw the tape and there is not enough evidence to justify termination.

I just think he should go. The unnecessary destruction of the Spy Gate tapes that just foster conspiracy theory, mismanaged the concussion thing, mismanaged the referees, and this domestic abuse issue has been an absolute debacle. Neither the fans nor the players trust him at all.

I don't get why they are so attached to him. He's really not responsible for the increased ratings or money. Those increases were just a freight train that he hopped on half way to its destination. From what I've heard the TV deal negotiations are a joke... basically it's "here's our price, if you won't meet it there is another network who wants the package". A trained monkey could do that. The only thing I can figure is that they just like having a lackey in that position because there is no risk that he'll do something that he feels is for the good of the game that doesn't also serve the immediate needs of the owners.

Ah yes Spy gate. Not too many folks mention that anymore but IMO it was one of the worst breaches of disclosure and honesty ever by Goodell. The fans had a right to see that evidence, it isn't like national security was at risk,, just the NFL illusion of fairness and a level playing field.. Now there's another tape controversy and it looks to me like the public wasn't supposed to see this one either. And why does a player get a year ban for smoking some weed but Irsay gets far less time for driving down the road blotto on pills with a car full of more of them?Is he going in the league substance abuse program and if not then why not? Shaun Payton gets a year over some $40,000 bounty pool that amounts to chump change for the player participating.Rothlesburgher gets 4 games for 2 separate incidents where he was alleged to have committed sexual impropriety but Rice gets cut and an indefinite suspension for a slap issued in the heat of passion after being spit on and cursed.

. Lets face it, Goody has mangled discipline issues since appointing himself the judge, jury and executioner and it sure seems like the punishment has a lot more to do with the stature and star power of the perp than the actual offense.
And Kal you are absolutely right. This league drives itself and the fundamental popularity was established by Rozelle and Tagliabue long before this poser got appointed emperor. It thrives in spite of him.

Bye Bye Roger.

[kalibane]

That's what gets me is the total inconsistancy with punishment. Look I think that Josh Gordon getting suspended for a year because of weed is the height of absurdity. BUT... that's the way the CBA was set up regarding drug suspensions. That was more Gordon's fault than anyone's. He knew which strike he was on. Even now the 10 week suspension it will be reduced to seems unduly harsh but again that one was on Gordon. There was a clear policy in place.

The problem is the completely arbitrary handling of the breaches to the personal conduct policy. There is no policy. Goodell just makes up a suspension that he thinks sounds good at the time. There is no consistency, no framework. The Rice suspension is obviously the worst example of this. First two games was fine, then the public backlash comes because the suspension is obviously way too light, so he institutes a new policy for 6 games. Then the 2nd video surfaces and I guess Goodell thinks that gives him a second bite at the apple? Nothing changed other than a video surfacing but the suspension jumps from 2 games to indefinite which doesn't even match the policy you just put in place a couple weeks ago?

Ray Rice should only serve a two game suspension. Not because the punishment comes anywhere close to fitting the "crime". But that was the punishment that was given. He wasn't subject to the new domestic violence policy. Goodell just needs to eat the bad PR he created. Even if it sucks balls, you just have to deal with the PR consequences of your bad decision making. You don't get a do over. It's the only way you can maintain integrity with regards to the disciplinary process. And the sad thing is Goodell really doesn't get that.

[Long Time Fan]

Kalibane you cite some of the reasoning that moved me. There needs to be processes in place that circumvent the need to vacillate on issues of crime and punishment. Every head coach has a game plan for something as elementary as to when to kick the extra point and when to go for two. How is it that with issues as crucial as punishment policy be left so arbitrary and fluid.

The Vikings shot themselves in the foot yesterday re-instating AP; then the heat comes down and they backtrack and have to admit the mistake. These are clearly failures of leadership. Now Goodell appears to be as if in hiding. Another anti-leadership posture. I picture Goodell huddled in a bunker with his licked finger in the air trying to judge the shifting winds. At the same time the press, that is his bedfellow and serves at his behest (ESPN, CBS, FOX, NBC), will miss the opportunity to call him out when he peeks his head from his bunker.

[kalibane]

I don't think they Viks really shot themselves in the foot so much. I think they actually did a good job of handling it. As soon as the first indictment came down they deactivated him. He handled turning himself in and there has to be due process. Especially in a case like this where estranged parents often use kids as weapons against each other even when there are not millions of dollars in the balance.

I didn't see anything wrong with reactivating him. But then a second seperate allegation comes down so they had to deactivate him again and requested to move him to the exempt list to get his life in order (because again it really isn't fair to dock him his pay until due process has taken place). IMO Goodell could actually learn a thing or two from how the Vikings were proactive in handling AP instead of sitting back and waiting for something to react to.

[Long Time Fan]

I'm not at all convinced that the Vikings have it right yet. Where is the due process? AP has been convicted of nothing. If I were a fan of the Vikings, I may put down my AP Jersey, but I would ask for him to be allowed to play until the legal system sorted this out.

The Vikings have been only reactionary and this latest turn will be questioned publicly as it already is by his teammates. Answer me this, what is AP's path to re-activation/reinstatement?

[Long Time Fan]

Now Hardy agrees to go on exempt list. This process as with AP requires the player's consent. The players get paid under this status and that plays a large part in their submission to it. The difference between these two cases is that Hardy has been convicted (case is under appeal), AP has not. Different standards same conclusions. No Bueno. NFL can and should do better. Where is Goodell?

[kalibane]

I just don't see how AP is being injured since he is going to be paid every dime he would make if he were playing. It's basically like being on the non-football injury list. He gets to go deal with his legal trouble without distraction and without financial penalty and then he can be activated at any time the Vikings wish to activate him.

There is no reinstatement proceeding. The only thing Goodell or the league office has a say in is whether the Vikings are allowed to make him exempt from the 53 man roster. He'll be fine. The reason why he won't be allowed to be at the team facility or involved in meetings has nothing to do with punishing him and everything to do with making sure that franchises are not able to abuse the special designation.

As far as Hardy not being suspended at all that is the other big Goodell botch job... but like I said, the exempt list has nothing to to with Goodell. It's a team decision.

[Long Time Fan]

AP is being injured by not applying his craft. Viking fans are being injured by the diminishment of their team, NFL fans are injured by the watered down product.

That's what gets me is the total inconsistancy with punishment.

Show me the consistency you yearn for in the application of these two cases.

He handled turning himself in and there has to be due process.

Show me the due process in AP's case.

[Long Time Fan]

49er's are staying the course with Ray McDonald. His case is similar to AP's. Accused but not yet tried. Vikings exempt AP. 9er's play McDonald. There are no rules here. Without leadership this situation is amok.

[kalibane]

I'll give you that. It sucks if you're a Vikings fan. (or if you're like my friend who used his first round pick on AP in Fantasy Football). But I don't see him not being able to apply his craft as much of an injury though. He's still being compensated and like you said, he agreed to it.

I wouldn't necessarily expect consistancy from Organization to Organization. Different fronte offices/coaches/owners will have different sensibilities. At the end of the day they sat down with AP talked over his situation and they agreed that the exempt list was the best course of action for all involved.

I expect consistancy from the league office because that is one entity. However take the different fines and internal suspensions each team assess. Tom Coughlin has way more team rules than Pete Carroll... no consistancy team to team. That's to be expected and not a bad thing.

[Long Time Fan]

Different fronte offices

CFL teams?

[HumanCockroach]

I really don't see this as any different from thousands of business' that apply a similar approach with their employees. I know drivers get put on "paid leave pending investigation" anytime there is an accident ( they call them incidents however) and it doesn't matter if that driver is in anyway responsible or not for the "incident". They are NOT forfeiting their pay, nor are they being found guilty, but until the matter is resolved, they aren't "plying their trade" either.

Peterson can be cut for ANY reason the Vikings see fit, they didn't do so, they gave him a mandatory "leave of absence" to resolve his legal and personal matters, which IMO happens quite often amongst regular business' . The NFL is an at will business, and NO player "needs" a reason to be "fired" ( cut) much less some "due process" to do so.

People can complain about it but that is simply the way the NFL, and pretty much any business is set up. If they had suspended him without pay, he would have some form of retaliation if he so chose, but they didn't, he agreed to it, so where's the issue? I'm not seeing it, just am not.

[NorthHawk]

Might we see the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" for Goodell?

[RiverDog]

I really don't see this as any different from thousands of business' that apply a similar approach with their employees. I know drivers get put on "paid leave pending investigation" anytime there is an accident ( they call them incidents however) and it doesn't matter if that driver is in anyway responsible or not for the "incident". They are NOT forfeiting their pay, nor are they being found guilty, but until the matter is resolved, they aren't "plying their trade" either.

Peterson can be cut for ANY reason the Vikings see fit, they didn't do so, they gave him a mandatory "leave of absence" to resolve his legal and personal matters, which IMO happens quite often amongst regular business' . The NFL is an at will business, and NO player "needs" a reason to be "fired" ( cut) much less some "due process" to do so.

People can complain about it but that is simply the way the NFL, and pretty much any business is set up. If they had suspended him without pay, he would have some form of retaliation if he so chose, but they didn't, he agreed to it, so where's the issue? I'm not seeing it, just am not.

Same way with cops that are involved in a fatal shooting. They are automatically put on paid administrative leave until the incident can be investigated. It works in the 'real world' where average Joe's like us have a 40 year or so working career, but when you're a running back who's career has a much shorter shelf life, an administrative leave isn't nearly as attractive.

[HumanCockroach]

Fair enough, but us working Joes also aren't being compensated in the same manner. You can't have everything you want in life, even if you are currently the best running back in the game. I'm not going to shed a tear for someone that put themselves in this situation to begin with. That sucks for Peterson, and Rice etc, but I find it hard to feel like they should live by a different set of rules than the rest of us. Never been keen on that, and this situation isn't pushing me any closer to that road :

And yes I understand that you didn't say I should pity Peterson, just voicing my view on it.

No one knows they have forty years to ply their trade ( especially not cops), the only difference I see personally, is Peterson is chasing records, and accolades, while us average Joes are making the world turn. Bummer if he doesn't accomplish what he wanted and all, but I guess he shouldn't have beaten his four year old.

[Oly]

I'm as disgusted with his treatment of these abuse issues as much as anyone, but as someone else said, that is just a symptom of the fundamental underlying problem: the lack of a coherent discipline policy. Guys get punished as much for crap like non-standard uniforms as they do for sh*t like DUI. Smoking weed can derail a season as much as legit PEDs (although that is finally changing, it's way too late). Knocking out your girlfriend merits a different discipline depending on whether or not TMZ has a video of the punch itself. And on and on. It's been amateur hour in his office for a long time, and it's finally coming back to bite him in a public way.

I have to say, though, as much as all of that is worth him getting canned, I'd be lying if I said that a big part of my wanting him to go has to do with his attempt to turn the NFL into flag football. I'm all for new regulations that protect the head, but he has gone so over the top that it's ruining the game.

[RiverDog]

Fair enough, but us working Joes also aren't being compensated in the same manner. You can't have everything you want in life, even if you are currently the best running back in the game. I'm not going to shed a tear for someone that put themselves in this situation to begin with. That sucks for Peterson, and Rice etc, but I find it hard to feel like they should live by a different set of rules than the rest of us. Never been keen on that, and this situation isn't pushing me any closer to that road :

And yes I understand that you didn't say I should pity Peterson, just voicing my view on it.

No one knows they have forty years to ply their trade ( especially not cops), the only difference I see personally, is Peterson is chasing records, and accolades, while us average Joes are making the world turn. Bummer if he doesn't accomplish what he wanted and all, but I guess he shouldn't have beaten his four year old.

Agreed.

What worries me now is that there is so much blood in the water that any player even remotely suspected of any kind of DV, or any other offense for that matter, is going to be immediately suspended regardless of the circumstance. Look how quickly the Cards acted when Jonathan Dwyer was arrested. Teams may not be willing to tolerate even a very short term amount of negative publicity and will be ghastly afraid to stand by their guy if they think he's innocent. How long did it take the league to act on Aldon Smith vs. the Cards on Dwyer? Smith had his legal problems adjudicated and it still took months before the league handed down a decision, and he never was disciplined by the Niners. Dwyer is de-activated a couple of hours after he was arrested. Did the Cards take the time to even hear Dwyer's side of the story? There has to be a happy medium some place in-between (is that a Yogi-ism?). It shouldn't take months, but I get the sense that teams are shooting first and asking questions later.

I'm not expressing sympathy for the individual players that are putting themselves in these positions in the first place. They make millions off the popularity of their sport, and have to accept the fact that their employer is going to react differently than one of ours might. I'm just commenting on the process and how it's gotten out of control.

[kalibane]

Legit concerns River. The way I see it, individual teams have to protect their own brand and that's why you're seeing the Vikings and Cards handling it this way. Just another by-product of Goodell and the league office not having a uniform policy for their personal conduct violations.

I have to say, though, as much as all of that is worth him getting canned, I'd be lying if I said that a big part of my wanting him to go has to do with his attempt to turn the NFL into flag football. I'm all for new regulations that protect the head, but he has gone so over the top that it's ruining the game.

Well again Oly you can chalk this up in part to the complete lack of leadership from Goodell. The guy is just never proactive. They were all happy to pretend concussions just weren't an issue and still would be if not for Chris Nowinski. If you aren't familiar with the name, he was a former professional wrestler in the WWE who was forced into retirement due to repeated concussions. He also happened to be a Harvard Graduate and after he retired has basically led the charge regarding concussion awareness in sports. His organization is responsible for a lot of the research that is out there now. Even with the concussion issue gaining momentum, Goodell was happy to just ignore it until the evidence was overwhelming, several former players committed suicide and the league got sued. Then in typical Goodell fashion he reacted to the negative PR instead of acting on the issue when it was apparent there was one.

Watching them act like they weren't aware of how much an issue domestic violence is in the NFL is just sad. I remember reading a feature in Sports Illustrated when I was in High School (that's a loooooong time ago) that was all about the subject. Former and current players were talking about how much effort they had to go through to build up the anger and intensity necessary to play football at the professional level and how it was even harder to just turn it off once the whistle blows. So it bled into their personal lives a lot. We're seeing all these arrests now, but imagine how many guys just weren't arrested before mandatory arrest laws especially considering a lot of people don't want to haul in the local sports hero.

[RiverDog]

Legit concerns River. The way I see it, individual teams have to protect their own brand and that's why you're seeing the Vikings and Cards handling it this way. Just another by-product of Goodell and the league office not having a uniform policy for their personal conduct violations.

I can't say as I blame the teams, either, especially teams like the Vikings, who just got through begging their voters to help them finance their new stadium. No one wants to be caught on the wrong side of this issue, so they're not taking any chances.

Although it pains me to say it and I know that guys like HC are going to take me to the cleaners for what I am about to say, but I have to tip my hat to the 49'ers. There's been a lot of pressure on them to sit Ray McDonald, but he has not even been charged and the Niners say that they believe his side of the story, so they're standing by him. After all the flak they rightfully took for playing Aldon Smith (which IMO they shouldn't have played him), it takes a lot of balls to stand up against this stampede of blood thirsty fans and media. If the Niners are wrong and McDonald is charged and found guilty, the Niners are going to have a lot of egg on their face.

At this point, I don't think it makes a lot of difference whether or not Goodell is directly to blame for any of this. He has to go.

[Long Time Fan]

I have to tip my hat to the 49'ers. There's been a lot of pressure on them to sit Ray McDonald, but he has not even been charged and the Niners say that they believe his side of the story, so they're standing by him. After all the flak they rightfully took for playing Aldon Smith (which IMO they shouldn't have played him), it takes a lot of balls to stand up against this stampede of blood thirsty fans and media. If the Niners are wrong and McDonald is charged and found guilty, the Niners are going to have a lot of egg on their face.

At this point, I don't think it makes a lot of difference whether or not Goodell is directly to blame for any of this. He has to go.

The 49ers are not followers, neither are the Seahawks; this is part of what makes this rivalry fun and these teams successful. That each team is allowed to deal with their implicated player on a case by case basis is the sharpest of double edged swords. A misstep on the wrong side of the issue will grab headlines and media and/or public backlash. I would have to think that each team consults with the NFL before taking on a position. That Goodell isn't asking for uniformity suggest to me that he feels above the fray. I do not see Goodell stepping down and the tea leaves of owners responses suggest that there will be no call for his playbook from the Turk. Goodell is going nowhere.

[c_hawkbob]

Goodell is going nowhere.

I'll take that bet.

[Long Time Fan]

I'll take that bet.

You're on. Goodell will still be presiding over his fiefdom by season's end; otherwise known as Seahawks Re-Pete (But just in case, let's call it season's end).

Stakes? Steaks?

[RiverDog]

I would have to think that each team consults with the NFL before taking on a position.

Perhaps. But the Cards de-activated Dwyer so quickly that it didn't leave a whole lot of time for equivocation.

[c_hawkbob]

Even though I think it'll happen by season's end it seems a reasonable offseason move, how bout we make it by training camp next year?

Steaks are fine by me if you don't mind mail order meats (Omaha Steaks Ribeys maybe): http://www.omahasteaks.com/products/Ribeyes (I live in KY so we'd have to do this long distance).

Or we could go with a bottle of Wild Turkey: http://send.com/liquor/cat.php?list=31& ... SortOrder= vs. your choice of comparably priced spirit.

[Long Time Fan]

Even though I think it'll happen by season's end it seems a reasonable offseason move, how bout we make it by training camp next year?

Steaks are fine by me if you don't mind mail order meats (Omaha Steaks Ribeys maybe): http://www.omahasteaks.com/products/Ribeyes (I live in KY so we'd have to do this long distance).

Or we could go with a bottle of Wild Turkey: http://send.com/liquor/cat.php?list=31& ... SortOrder= vs. your choice of comparably priced spirit.

By training camp is more than fair. Whatever your preference; slurp or turf. The way that I see it, you are betting a long shot. Goodell is shielding the owners whose primary concerns are revenue, tv contracts, cba, and continuing their long winning streak against the NFLPA. When you consider the dirtbags that have served as commissioner of other leagues (Stern, Bowie Kuehn (sp), Selig, Bettman), the NFL has had some of the best commissioners. At least from a labor/management perspective, the NFL owners have kicked butt.

Feel free to opt out of bet if you want a day to consider, no biggie.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... -dont-quit

[c_hawkbob]

No need for a reconsideration day on my part, by training camp it is.

I'll similarly offer you a day to reconsider and if by tomorrow we're still a go, we'll go slurp.

Make mine a bottle of Wild Turkey 101. Name your preference.

[Long Time Fan]

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7Bsg/jim-beam-ma ... mila-kunis

Kentucky huh? If you see this girl out your way send her, if not beam will have to do.

I'm in Houston, plenty of turkey here, not enough Kunis.

[kalibane]

Bob... you're in KY, have you done the bourbon trail?

[burrrton]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/nfl-co ... ls-n206676

Advantage: Long Time Fan.

(I have no dog in this fight, btw, and am not predicting a winner- just thought it was an interesting article)

[c_hawkbob]

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7Bsg/jim-beam-make-history-featuring-mila-kunis

Kentucky huh? If you see this girl out your way send her, if not beam will have to do.

I'm in Houston, plenty of turkey here, not enough Kunis.

For her, I'd switch Bourbons!

Turkey vs Beam it is!

[c_hawkbob]

Bob... you're in KY, have you done the bourbon trail?

I haven't, I quit riding when I broke by back in '90. Just being in that position sets my legs on fire.

[c_hawkbob]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/nfl-controversy/exclusive-america-shrugs-scandals-plaguing-nfl-nbc-poll-reveals-n206676

Advantage: Long Time Fan.

(I have no dog in this fight, btw, and am not predicting a winner- just thought it was an interesting article)

That's a fan poll. I'll worry when I see a sponsor poll that says the same thing. Money talks.

[burrrton]

That's a fan poll. I'll worry when I see a sponsor poll that says the same thing. Money talks.

Good point (although I'm guessing sponsor dollars will follow fan opinion pretty closely).

[c_hawkbob]

Good point (although I'm guessing sponsor dollars will follow fan opinion pretty closely).

With a healthy adjustment toward erring on the conservative side.

[Long Time Fan]

Goodell and the NFL are keeping an eye on public opinion. Current sentiment buoys Goodell's steadfast hold to his office and opinion that his ship is well in hand. It will take some monumental shift in opinion or the rampant abandonment of sponsors to excise Goodell from his posture and post. This is an awful precedent that a "leader" sequesters himself in time of crisis and waits out the storm for fear that his addressing of course sinks his ship.

[kalibane]

I haven't, I quit riding when I broke by back in '90. Just being in that position sets my legs on fire.

Not the riding trail... the tour of the bourbon distilleries. Every year we talk about going and somehow it never happens. But I really want to go do it. I was a little late to the party but Bourbon is my new vice.

[savvyman]

44 Million reasons why Goodell will do anything it takes to keep his Job.

In the end his is nothing more than another of the weasel type of Corporate CEO's who raid all the wealth while they can while constantly looking for new cost cutting measures (wages, benefits, relocation of jobs to cheaper labor markets, etc..) to take against the "labor cost" (i.e. people) who work for them.





By the Way - Goodall Salary works out to $21,205.29 per HOUR. Cue Burton to come in and tell us how the CEO of the NFL is so special - like so many of these other weasley CEO's in America - that they deserve this obscene amount of money.