What's with Sherman's coverage?

[RiverDog]

I asked this question in a couple of threads and in two different forums, and haven't gotten an answer.

Several times last Sunday, Richard Sherman bit on a lame fake to the sideline, to his left, then did a complete 360 spin ala Russell Wilson, turns his back on both the receiver and the QB, opening up yards of separation between him and the receiver. Is he getting fooled that easily that he's so far out of position that he has to spin around rather than cross step to change direction? Or is he expecting some sort of help over the middle?

It seemed like a very unnatural move for a cornerback to get turned around like that on a short route, and it happened more than once.

[c_hawkbob]

Several times? I saw what you're describing once.

He was targeted six times and surrender just 54 yards and no scores. Keenan Allen got him turned around once and that's all anyone wants to talk about (understandably), without noting that he also had 6 solo tackles (one for a loss). The 4 short passes completed against him were slants thrown underneath the zone, not really unusual when everyone (fans) isn't concentrating on Sherm every play. He played the same game he's played dozens of times and actually graded out fairly well (+.9) according to Pro Football Focus.

[HumanCockroach]

It actually happened twice, and it is something he does from time to time. Sherman's responsibility dictates a deep coverage, the Seahawks allow short five yard passes and expect the flow from the inside to get there, in this game, the coverage didn't, it was his worst game in coverage, however, as with all things there is more than just him turning his back that factor in to it. It was discussed in numerous places, that this is the type of scheme the Seahawks run.

Not overly concerned with it, and have pointed out for two seasons that Sherman does not have the fluidity in his hips or his feet that most corners do, that does not change his effectiveness it just was more recognizable to those that don't spend time studying it. It has happened before, and it will happen again, IMHO they got away from pressure at the LOS in this game, and that changes the way the defense/Sherman performed. Expect to see more jams at the LOS this week to offset Manning's weak arm.

[burrrton]

What Bob said.

Sherm better get used to it, though- when you talk that much, if either you or the defense falters (it was more of the latter than the former last Sunday, at least by the standard they've set), people are going to go *off* on you, exaggerating where necessary.

[c_hawkbob]

Sherman does not have the fluidity in his hips or his feet that most corners do

That is so overstated. He may not have the fluidity in his feet and hips that most truly elite corners do, but he's at least top quadrant of "most corners" in those attributes.

[Hawk Sista]

It was a combo of things. No excuses, but I do think the heat stifled the D, our O did not sustain drives (time of possession exacerbated the heat on the D (they all looked a step slower) and I think the chargers hexecuted Very well. W/ us being the defending champs & Sherm's mouth from the NFCCG and other instances, this all set the stage for the "hawks/Sherman exposed" headlines.

You reap what you sow. Now if that mouth swagger gets us some more W's, we all forget about it. But when the D loses a game, EVERY ONE is gonna pile-on.

[Hawk Sista]

It was a combo of things. No excuses, but I do think the heat stifled the D, our O did not sustain drives (time of possession exacerbated the heat on the D (they all looked a step slower) and I think the chargers hexecuted Very well. W/ us being the defending champs & Sherm's mouth from the NFCCG and other instances, this all set the stage for the "hawks/Sherman exposed" headlines.

You reap what you sow. Now if that mouth swagger gets us some more W's, we all forget about it. But when the D loses a game, EVERY ONE is gonna pile-on. Sherm's LMAO tweet after failing to win and failing to address the media did not help the national media and fan's perceptions of him/Hawks. Neither did ET saying the chargers were dink and dunk' n and got lucky. No matter the complete context, it doesn't sound good.

[Hawktawk]

Sherman didn't want to press Allen and gave him a free release inside all day long. He definitely did that weird spin to the outside twice in the game. He appeared to fear Keenan Allen deep as well as any CB in the league should. The kid is legit.

The Chargers were patient.Their OC was a step ahead of Dan Quinn all day and their players were a whisker ahead of our defense.

ET said in the media that the Chargers had replicated what the Falcons had done to Seattle in the 2012 playoffs and that LOB had better study every game they screwed up over the past few years to be ready for what teams will throw at them.I loved ETs press conference. He said he thinks hes going on a tear now that he has his championship hunger back.Hopefully it starts with a couple pick 6s on Sunday.

[c_hawkbob]

Sherman didn't want to press Allen and gave him a free release inside all day long. He definitely did that weird spin to the outside twice in the game. He appeared to fear Keenan Allen deep as well as any CB in the league should. The kid is legit.

The Chargers were patient.Their OC was a step ahead of Dan Quinn all day and their players were a whisker ahead of our defense.

ET said in the media that the Chargers had replicated what the Falcons had done to Seattle in the 2012 playoffs and that LOB had better study every game they screwed up over the past few years to be ready for what teams will throw at them.I loved ETs press conference. He said he thinks hes going on a tear now that he has his championship hunger back.Hopefully it starts with a couple pick 6s on Sunday.

Sherman doesn't decide whether he's going to press or play zone, that's a coaching decision.

[#37]

HA! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3pjg2f56k0

[HumanCockroach]

I think maybe you are misunderstanding what I'm saying Bob. This isn't some sort of knock on Sherman, it just is what it is. Sherman compensates for that with his incredible study habits, length, and ball skills. I didn't think anyone could think I was bashing him, I've been consistent in my analysis of his play, and really do believe we are watching the best corner since a guy named Deion was busy high stepping his way through the NFL.

Acknowledging something Sherman isn't outstanding at, doesn't mean he isn't an outstanding corner anymore than acknowledging Largent was the fastest receiver, or a physical freak like MegaTron, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Footwork, technique and fluidity of hips aren't "over rated" they are a necessity to play the position, but it ultimately is the whole that matters, not just one thing or another.

[c_hawkbob]

I think maybe you are misunderstanding what I'm saying Bob. This isn't some sort of knock on Sherman, it just is what it is. Sherman compensates for that with his incredible study habits, length, and ball skills. I didn't think anyone could think I was bashing him, I've been consistent in my analysis of his play, and really do believe we are watching the best corner since a guy named Deion was busy high stepping his way through the NFL.

Acknowledging something Sherman isn't outstanding at, doesn't mean he isn't an outstanding corner anymore than acknowledging Largent was the fastest receiver, or a physical freak like MegaTron, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Footwork, technique and fluidity of hips aren't "over rated" they are a necessity to play the position, but it ultimately is the whole that matters, not just one thing or another.

I completely understand the whole player concept, and I agree. Had you not said "most corners" I would not have had said anything. The fact is though that he is not less nimble and fluid than most corners in the NFL, merely than others of his caliber as a whole player.

[Hawktawk]

Sherman doesn't decide whether he's going to press or play zone, that's a coaching decision.

Like I said their OC was a step ahead of Dan Quinn all day long.

[HumanCockroach]

As someone that has spent most of three decades studying, playing or coaching the position, the "most" corners portion IMHO is accurate. Sherman excels so greatly in other areas that that area becomes irrelevant. In this regard we are going to have to agree to disagree. Thurmond had FAR superior footwork, as does Maxwell, and Lane. In fact the only corner I've seen with worse on the Seahawks since Sherman has been on the team is Browner, who had atrocious footwork. It doesn't place any of those corners in the same realm as Sherman as a player, but it is what I have seen, noticed and commented on for over two years, all the while explaining how "special" the guy was. Calling him a future all pro before he started a game, and sat third on the depth chart fretting over him not making the team.

Feel confident in that assessment , footwork can be improved upon, and he has indeed improved, but he still has flaws in that area of his game, which simply makes him human IMHO.

[obiken]

Answer to your question, nothing. I don't think Sherman is the best Corner in the league but he did not have that bad a game last week. ET is the Heart of the DB's, and Bobby Wagner, is just becoming a really good FB player.

[RiverDog]

Several times? I saw what you're describing once.

He was targeted six times and surrender just 54 yards and no scores. Keenan Allen got him turned around once and that's all anyone wants to talk about (understandably), without noting that he also had 6 solo tackles (one for a loss). The 4 short passes completed against him were slants thrown underneath the zone, not really unusual when everyone (fans) isn't concentrating on Sherm every play. He played the same game he's played dozens of times and actually graded out fairly well (+.9) according to Pro Football Focus.

I don't have the specific links showing the plays and I haven't watched a replay of the game to determine how many and when they occurred, but I know that it happened more than once or else I wouldn't have recalled it in the manner I did. I didn't make a Futureite style comment by saying that he got lit up or anything else that would invite a defense of his overall play that game or general ability as a cornerback. All I was doing was asking for an explanation, whether he was intentionally trying to take the sideline routes away or if he just plain got beat.

[Futureite]

River;

Really, the only things I've said about Sherman are now echoed in this thread. That he was built to play a certain stlye D with his frame (physical/press) but does not have the elite speed or fluid hip movement to cover certain receivers. I said if he had all of those qualities he'd have been a high first rd pick. It is obvious that your D front is built small and explosive to get immediate pressure on the QB. When it can, the Sherman Browner prototype fits to perfection. You get 43-8. When it cannot, you get ATL or SD type games.

I have always given Sherman credit - just not as much as some of you. He is a top level CB in this league, but he is not Deion or Rod Woodson or Darrell Green. And he's never going to be. He is more akin to Namdi Asomghua, where his skill set fits in a specific system. Everything I posted was right on point.

And btw, I told you the guy is the classic poor sport. I told you he's all about some phony show of sportsmanship when he wins and shows none when he loses. Classic Sherman swatting Crab on the ass and extending a hand 2 seconds after securing a SB birth, but hides from the media after Chargers take it to his team. But I am sure someone already has an excuse lined up for that. Maybe Keenan Allen started a fight with him at another charity event.

River, you might not like the way I stated it but my opinions of him as a player and a person look true to the mark right now.