Put it to rest

[c_hawkbob]

So many (national press, not here) have argued that Russ doesn't belong in the 'elite' category of QB's because he doesn't have to carry a team to victory on his own shoulder. Let's hope they were watching this game because he absolutely obliterated that argument! Every time we truly needed something major he supplied it, with his arm, with his legs and most importantly with his eyes! Without Russ we would have been embarrassed in that game.

[kalibane]

Sadly it will still continue until he's throwing the ball 45 times per game for 300+ yards.

[monkey]

Sadly it will still continue until he's throwing the ball 45 times per game for 300+ yards.

More sadly, if and/or when that ever happens, the Seahawks will not be nearly as good a team.
Throwing the ball for over 300 yards a game looks good to mediots who know less than nothing about football, but BALANCE wins football games!

Russell Wilson gets that silly game manager label (as if every QB isn't a game manager ) but what he really is, is the ULTIMATE point guard QB. He's a game manager all right, a nearly flawless, game manager, who distributes the ball to his play makers with unerring accuracy, and who can put the team on his shoulders, and take the game over BY HIMSELF almost any time he wants/needs to, in order to get the win.

You can call him a game manager, or whatever you like (he's too humble to call you out)...but whatever else you might call him, call him ELITE! He EARNED it!!!

[RiverDog]

Russell played a nearly flawless game last night. The only play I saw that I questioned his judgment on was the backwards, awkward pass he threw to Beast that was deflected by a rushing lineman and could have easily been a real disaster. That one reminded me of Tony Romo.

But other than that, his decision making was solid and his passing on the money. I couldn't give a rip what the media says as to whether or not he's an 'elite' quarterback. Just win, baby!

[Long Time Fan]

After the game, RW said that he would like to play 15-20 years.

There is nothing that I would like more than for RW to be the Seahawk's QB in 2025 and beyond. There might well be a few more Lombardi trophies for the Seahawks between now and then.

There is nothing better than knowing how fortunate we are while we are in the moment; too often good fortune is only seen through a rear view mirror. The future for Seahawks fans is bright.

[FolkCrusader]

Agree with everything said here. He is just so exciting to watch. I love how he trots out to the post game discussion and takes over like he's the host. Not always a fan of Ray Lewis' insight but I thought he was spot on with the 2013 St. Louis comparison. I think the difference was in the St. Louis game Russell had to put the team on his back. In this game he was often just the best option. Either way, no Russell - no win.

The O line struggled almost to a man last night. Saw Carp make a couple really nice plays, then he makes a couple bone heads and costs us big time. Unger was way off his game, but came back in after getting hurt and made a nice block on Wilson's Houdini play and pass to Beast. Even Okung looked to be getting it pretty good from Orakpo.

[Anthony]

If not for the o-lien penalties and a few drop his stat line would have been

23-26 298 yards 4 tds, complt% 85, Qb rating 142, 141 yards rushing 1 td

[Anthony]

Sadly it will still continue until he's throwing the ball 45 times per game for 300+ yards.

Not so sure people are starting to come around.

[kalibane]

Some pundits are saying good stuff today fresh off a stellar prime time performance. Give it a couple weeks they'll be back to saying he's not elite yet. People are obssessed with stat lines.

[mykc14]

Some pundits are saying good stuff today fresh off a stellar prime time performance. Give it a couple weeks they'll be back to saying he's not elite yet. People are obssessed with stat lines.

This is what happens. He play on prime-time, everybody realizes how good he is. They begin to admit he is better than Luck and say that he is elite. He doesn't play in prime-time everybody looks at his stats, "only 235 yards passing and 2 TD's." Then they look at Luck's stats "Whoa, Luck threw for 355 yards and 4 TD's." Then they say Luck is way better than Wilson. Luck is elite and Wilson is second tier. Enjoy the love until next week (although he is playing the Cowboys so he might actually have some national guys watching) then Luck's amazing numbers will once again win out.

[Anthony]

This is what happens. He play on prime-time, everybody realizes how good he is. They begin to admit he is better than Luck and say that he is elite. He doesn't play in prime-time everybody looks at his stats, "only 235 yards passing and 2 TD's." Then they look at Luck's stats "Whoa, Luck threw for 355 yards and 4 TD's." Then they say Luck is way better than Wilson. Luck is elite and Wilson is second tier. Enjoy the love until next week (although he is playing the Cowboys so he might actually have some national guys watching) then Luck's amazing numbers will once again win out.

But what is so amazing about lucks numbers he has only played on good team with a good defense, he has a top 10 pass blocking o-line, top 10 Wr corps and a run game that is performing well.

He has 14 tds but 6 ints so that is 2-1, does have a 100 Qb rating, 160 yards (he has played 1 more game then a lot of others).

Rw has a higher QB rating way higher at 113, a 8-1 td/int ratio, higher YPA, and has played a much harder schedule

I mean Luck has played Den, Phi, Jax, Ten, Bal combined Defense ranking=22
Rw has played GB, SD, Denver, Was Combined defense ranking=13

Huge difference

And experts are starting to see it, they were just talking about it on ESPN paid site, about how Lucks numbers in some areas are better, Rw is others but Luck has had an easier schedule and as much if not more talent. Especially after the indy game were the Defense had more to do with the win than the offense

[Zorn76]

It's getting easier and easier to not pay attention to the NFL pundits anymore.

They can keep grasping at straws, and RW will just keep on winning.

We finally found our miracle QB.

[THX-1138]

Manning and Brees and Brady and Luck and all the rest of those QB's can go around with their little medal around their necks that say "Elite QB" and I'm sure RW will be quite pleased with his fat upcoming contract and continued hoisting of Lombardi's.

[Long Time Fan]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2223 ... ?hpt=hp_t2

For whatever reason we fans seem to relish this "Our team is overlooked" mentality. But like it or not respect, acclaim, and even reverence is coming the Seahawk's way. NFL ranking lists have the Seahawks firmly planted as THE number one team. It's sorta fun being the underdog and it helps build the chip on the shoulder mentality; but the secret is out: The Seahawks are the best in the NFL with arguably the best QB in the game.

[THX-1138]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2223016-russell-wilson-embodies-elite-quarterback-play-in-mnf-win-over-washington?hpt=hp_t2

For whatever reason we fans seem to relish this "Our team is overlooked" mentality. But like it or not respect, acclaim, and even reverence is coming the Seahawk's way. NFL ranking lists have the Seahawks firmly planted as THE number one team. It's sorta fun being the underdog and it helps build the chip on the shoulder mentality; but the secret is out: The Seahawks are the best in the NFL with arguably the best QB in the game.

I think it's more from the talking heads perspective. The debate that RW is not elite is quite real and has a lot of vocal and allegedly knowledgeable proponents.

[Oly]

I get the sense that the comparisons and "elite" conversations are about one thing and one thing only:

Filling the 24 hour sports news demand.

That's it. Sure, perhaps after being contractually obligated to talk about some inane topic to fill airtime might lead a sportscaster to actually care about it, but I think the obligation to say something comes before caring about it. Nothing generates clicks and views better than a debate, and what better way to keep a debate going than to set up one with fuzzy boundaries and impossible criteria.

Personally, I think Wilson and Luck are both fantastic players and great fits for their teams. I wouldn't trade Wilson for anyone, and living in Indiana, I can assure you Colts fans wouldn't trade Luck for anyone. Both fanbases are right, and that's all the further I care to think about it.

[obiken]

Who cares what they think, he is the best QB we have ever had, and he is good enough to win another SB. The talking heads are just that.

[monkey]

I get the sense that the comparisons and "elite" conversations are about one thing and one thing only:

Filling the 24 hour sports news demand.

You know Oly, I tend to at least partly agree with that, and NO DOUBT it plays a big part...the thing is though, at least in this debate, I think it's more fan driven than media, and I'll tell you why I believe that is the case.
At the moment, it seems that all the media wants to focus on, are off field issues, social issues, and it's almost with a sigh of disappointment that they are forced to actually talk about the games right now. They analyze the games as if they are fulfilling their obligation, then quickly get right back to their soapboxes about social agendas.

It's the fans who forever want to put players into ranks and who get really bent out of shape about their opinions.
Don't get me wrong, the media feeds off it, but they seem to do it because it's what fans want to talk about when they are tired of talking about the hot news item of the day/week and or social issues.
It's the fans on both sides of the Luck vs. Wilson debate who seem to never tire of pulling out stats and fighting over them as though they were personally invested, and who seem to invent all these illogical arguments such as "well if they switched teams, Andrew Luck would make the Seahawks even better" etc... Only an illogical fan could come up with such an obviously flawed argument.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that, at least with things like compiling top ten lists, that's the one area where fans ALWAYS go to once the days hot news story has worn thin, and it seems to be more fan driven than media. In my opinion of course.

[Anthony]

Wow listen to this interview with Peter King

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=11658691&s=espn


Notice what he says about RW.

[Oly]

You know Oly, I tend to at least partly agree with that, and NO DOUBT it plays a big part...the thing is though, at least in this debate, I think it's more fan driven than media, and I'll tell you why I believe that is the case.
At the moment, it seems that all the media wants to focus on, are off field issues, social issues, and it's almost with a sigh of disappointment that they are forced to actually talk about the games right now. They analyze the games as if they are fulfilling their obligation, then quickly get right back to their soapboxes about social agendas.

It's the fans who forever want to put players into ranks and who get really bent out of shape about their opinions.
Don't get me wrong, the media feeds off it, but they seem to do it because it's what fans want to talk about when they are tired of talking about the hot news item of the day/week and or social issues.
It's the fans on both sides of the Luck vs. Wilson debate who seem to never tire of pulling out stats and fighting over them as though they were personally invested, and who seem to invent all these illogical arguments such as "well if they switched teams, Andrew Luck would make the Seahawks even better" etc... Only an illogical fan could come up with such an obviously flawed argument.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that, at least with things like compiling top ten lists, that's the one area where fans ALWAYS go to once the days hot news story has worn thin, and it seems to be more fan driven than media. In my opinion of course.

Ok, maybe I was a little too reductionistic in my last post, because I see what you're saying. But there are two things in response that make me think the media is driving the fan discussion and not vice versa:

1. This conversation dates back to last year, before any of this off the field crap. Even if it seems fan driven now, it might be because we've all taken the bait.

2. There is a different tone to these conversations than I remember in the past. If you could strip away the actual words and just listen to the tone of voice of people arguing about Wilson vs. Luck, I swear you'd think they were Republicans and Democrats going after each other. I'm only 34 years old, so I can't remember sports discussions very well before they were dominated by ESPN and the like, but I don't recall this kind of intensity before cable sports programming and sports websites (which literally put up new content around the clock) were ubiquitous. You're right that fans love talking about lists and comparing players/teams/etc., but before you had Skip F**king Bayless and his ilk littering the airwaves, do you remember conversations like this as if they mattered?

I guess it's hard to say for sure, because here we are talking on a forum about it, so maybe you're right. But just in the way that politician talking points creep into real world conversations between people, I get the feeling that sports programming talking points are guiding rather than responding to fans. Regardless, you are absolutley right that the fans are carrying it on at this point.

[c_hawkbob]

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/a ... b931976c3d

[monkey]

Ok, maybe I was a little too reductionistic in my last post, because I see what you're saying. But there are two things in response that make me think the media is driving the fan discussion and not vice versa:

1. This conversation dates back to last year, before any of this off the field crap. Even if it seems fan driven now, it might be because we've all taken the bait.

2. There is a different tone to these conversations than I remember in the past. If you could strip away the actual words and just listen to the tone of voice of people arguing about Wilson vs. Luck, I swear you'd think they were Republicans and Democrats going after each other. I'm only 34 years old, so I can't remember sports discussions very well before they were dominated by ESPN and the like, but I don't recall this kind of intensity before cable sports programming and sports websites (which literally put up new content around the clock) were ubiquitous. You're right that fans love talking about lists and comparing players/teams/etc., but before you had Skip F**king Bayless and his ilk littering the airwaves, do you remember conversations like this as if they mattered?

I guess it's hard to say for sure, because here we are talking on a forum about it, so maybe you're right. But just in the way that politician talking points creep into real world conversations between people, I get the feeling that sports programming talking points are guiding rather than responding to fans. Regardless, you are absolutley right that the fans are carrying it on at this point.

Again, I am definitely NOT saying you are wrong, in fact these are terrific counter-arguments that I am tempted to lend quite a lot of credence to. Good points Oly!

I still personally think that it's more fan driven than media, BUT, there is ZERO doubt that the media enables, encourages and feeds off of it...and when they run out of things to talk about, top ten lists, and "where does so and so rank" are DEFINITELY the fallback topics du jour.

So in that, I'll just say that I mostly agree with you Oly and say that I enjoyed this exchange of opinions with you. That's what I like about fan forums.

[monkey]

Cold Hard Football Fact (one of my favorite sites) once again NAILS IT where it concerns Russell Wilson. That site called Wilson the clear cut best young QB during his rookie season, and hasn't backed off since.
Read this, it's well worth it.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/russell-wilson-dominates-washington-monday-night-football/31425/

[burrrton]

Cold Hard Football Fact (one of my favorite sites) once again NAILS IT where it concerns Russell Wilson. That site called Wilson the clear cut best young QB during his rookie season, and hasn't backed off since.
Read this, it's well worth it.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/russell-wilson-dominates-washington-monday-night-football/31425/

Good link- on the subject of CHFF, here's another one for all the "Game Manager" goofballs:

http://www.footballnation.com/content/s ... huh/30814/

[Oly]

So in that, I'll just say that I mostly agree with you Oly and say that I enjoyed this exchange of opinions with you. That's what I like about fan forums.

Ditto! It's also why this is my favorite forum. While it's not as active as others, what is here is far more substantive and you don't see people trying to end debates by calling each other homers or haters.

[Long Time Fan]

Cold Hard Football Fact (one of my favorite sites) once again NAILS IT where it concerns Russell Wilson. That site called Wilson the clear cut best young QB during his rookie season, and hasn't backed off since.
Read this, it's well worth it.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/russell-wilson-dominates-washington-monday-night-football/31425/

Good article, great evidence. The analysis and stats speak for themselves.

RW was 18/24 against Washington; I recall at least two drops and 1 throw away.

[Anthony]

RW was 18/24 against Washington; I recall at least two drops and 1 throw away.

4 drops and a throw away and 3 tds called back with 2 being passing and another 80+ yards and another 40 yards rushing called back due to stupid o-line penalties. Near as I can see Rws stats should have been

24-26, 310, 4tds, 92% complt, 162 rushing yards and a td, qb rating 142

[Long Time Fan]

4 drops and a throw away and 3 tds called back with 2 being passing and another 80+ yards and another 40 yards rushing called back due to stupid o-line penalties. Near as I can see Rws stats should have been

24-26, 310, 4tds, 92% complt, 162 rushing yards and a td, qb rating 142

Clearly our QB is too short.