Let The S*** Show Begin

[Aseahawkfan]

There's no one in this little group of ours that can be considered as part of MAGA. None of us, that I am aware of, voted for Trump.

But I do think that a lot of people got blindsided by these tariffs and might have voted differently had they had any idea they were going to be as extensive as they are. I certainly didn't anticipate them.

It's fairly obvious Spohawk wants to pretend his party does a better job than the Republicans given the obvious insult to Republicans voters and falls into the category of leftist refusing to admit his party does lots of stupid things which is why a person like Trump ended up in office as a big old middle finger at the Dems for all the stupid, crazy policies they support that Dems like Spohawk ignore to the detriment of the Dem Party and the Dem voters who refuse to admit that things like defund the police, trans females in female sports, critical race theory that villainizes the "white man", and other such policies allow the Dems to be positioned as the crazy party so a guy like Trump can capitalize on their ridiculous polices to take the White House and cause massive chaos.

Most Republicans I talk to would love a better choice to vote for than Trump, but they are also very aware of the insane Democratic policies told to them daily on conservative news media that put them in the mindset to vote for "Anyone but a looney Dem."

I hear the Dem stuff daily,, especially the Washington Dem stuff texted to me. Right now they are trying to push a wealth tax, increase the gas tax, and put a tax on miles driven because the EVs they want everyone to buy in Washington State don't use gas causing a loss of tax revenue that Washington State relies on to pay for the budget they wastefully spend on trash rather than cut spending. They're trying to do a payroll tax again on head count again. Washington State is also trying to increase the property tax again on top of reassessing everyone's house as fast as possible to ensure the highest possible valuation for property taxes in Washington State because citizens of Washington State just don't pay enough in taxes for them to manage.

On top of all the socially liberal policies the Washington State Dems continue to push.

Then all the unconstitutional firearms bills the Washington State Dems keep pushing to try to circumvent the Constitution.

Then add in the Democratic judges and Congress of Washington State ignoring the vote of the people when it's for something they don't like such as the Parents Bill of Rights they vote to undermine completely ignoring the will of the majority when it is convenient for them to do so.

So we basically have the Dems doing on a state level what the Republicans are doing on a national level and really whichever party is in charge. That's what Riverdog, myself, and many other Republican voters deal with that make Republicans often vote "anyone but a Dem."

These political parties really suck right now. For people like Riverdog and myself, there is no one to vote for worth a damn. It's stuck in a nightmare of an America that many of us see as some Bizarro World America with two political parties engaged in behavior that makes you go, "How hard is to move to Switzerland?"

[Aseahawkfan]

Hey, an I-5 sighting! Hope you stick around.

Be nice to hear from the ground how Canada is viewing the looney Trump trade war.

Trump was the one that tore up the NAFTA deal and did his own deal last term that he's now saying is screwing us. Didn't he write the trade deal we're using currently with Canada and Mexico that is supposedly screwing us his last term? That's just dumb that he's basically saying the trade deal he wrote is leading to us getting screwed. Man has a different type of dementia than Biden, but he's obviously losing it or he views all this trash as his strongarm sales tactic to force deals he can brag about.

[I-5]

OK, good to know you do have investments, ASF. I guess you're just saying you don't play around with stocks. I don't either, but I'm about to take an investing course. Mostly, I started saving for retirement with my employer 401k program 30+ years ago. It's unfuriating to think how one month of Trump can undo so much of the gains that my 401k has seen. I'm glad to hear there aren't too many MAGA here on the forum, but unfortunately I deal with a lot of it in my life, starting with my 83 year old mom who is a smart lady, but has bought into the Trump cult. I have aunts and uncles like that, too. I'm originally from the Philippines, which is a pretty religous right-leaning country, so it's not surprising though still disappointing to see how willingly the older generation is willing, even prefers, autocratic rule, as it tends to be right wing, ban abortions, etc. heck, in the Philippines, they even ban divorce, so officially no one is divorced lol. Instead they have something omplicated called an 'anullment'. It's a 90% catholic country, which is both good and bad.

But I digress. Up here in Canada, there is in general more unity in the country. They have the usual debates between liberals and conversatives, but outside of a few looney tunes, even conservatives here think Trump is a huge jerk, and I'd say the interim PM Mark Carney enjoys pretty massive support to win the upcoming snap election be the offical PM. His talk on moving ahead without the US as an ally is resonating throughout the country. His first visit after taking over from Trudeau was not to the US as is tradition. Instead he flew to England and France to visit with their leaders, as well as the traditional head of first nations government in Canada. He is nobody's fool (PhD in economics from Oxford), and from social media I can see that people are feeling comfortable with his leadership in uncomfortable times. His message is that we are in for tough time, but we will make it through together. It's a pretty special time in Canada. And yes, I have many Canadian friends (many born in other countries but have become permanent residents are applying to be) who either are cancelling planned trips to the US, or don't even want to risk going across the border. So much goodwill burned by one orange madman and his sycophants. Watching Rubio who used to speak in a balanced tone now fall in line under Trump is just as troubling as anything else.

[Aseahawkfan]

OK, good to know you do have investments, ASF. I guess you're just saying you don't play around with stocks. I don't either, but I'm about to take an investing course. Mostly, I started saving for retirement with my employer 401k program 30+ years ago. It's unfuriating to think how one month of Trump can undo so much of the gains that my 401k has seen. I'm glad to hear there aren't too many MAGA here on the forum, but unfortunately I deal with a lot of it in my life, starting with my 83 year old mom who is a smart lady, but has bought into the Trump cult. I have aunts and uncles like that, too. I'm originally from the Philippines, which is a pretty religous right-leaning country, so it's not surprising though still disappointing to see how willingly the older generation is willing, even prefers, autocratic rule, as it tends to be right wing, ban abortions, etc. heck, in the Philippines, they even ban divorce, so officially no one is divorced lol. Instead they have something omplicated called an 'anullment'. It's a 90% catholic country, which is both good and bad.

But I digress. Up here in Canada, there is in general more unity in the country. They have the usual debates between liberals and conversatives, but outside of a few looney tunes, even conservatives here think Trump is a huge jerk, and I'd say the interim PM Mark Carney enjoys pretty massive support to win the upcoming snap election be the offical PM. His talk on moving ahead without the US as an ally is resonating throughout the country. His first visit after taking over from Trudeau was not to the US as is tradition. Instead he flew to England and France to visit with their leaders, as well as the traditional head of first nations government in Canada. He is nobody's fool (PhD in economics from Oxford), and from social media I can see that people are feeling comfortable with his leadership in uncomfortable times. His message is that we are in for tough time, but we will make it through together. It's a pretty special time in Canada. And yes, I have many Canadian friends (many born in other countries but have become permanent residents are applying to be) who either are cancelling planned trips to the US, or don't even want to risk going across the border. So much goodwill burned by one orange madman and his sycophants. Watching Rubio who used to speak in a balanced tone now fall in line under Trump is just as troubling as anything else.

You're Filipino? Cool. I have a lot of Filipino buddies. Love the food. Lumpya, pancit, and Filipino BBQ I can eat all the time. I heard about the church in the Philippines. Always sounded really hard on women with the inability to divorce. I know they have wild politics going on with Duterte given to the World Court for prosecution by his political enemies. I guess he lost all his juice when he was pushing hard against the drug dealers in The Philippines.

I have a lot of friends and family that are Trump supporters. I'm mostly non-partisan, but tend to vote Republican mostly because Abraham Lincoln was a Republican and for my money. Modern conservatives have moved far away from Lincoln-like government. That's the kind of leader I like: one that makes decisions not based on popularity, but that has a sound moral compass that guides their actions regardless of the threat to their person. Since I can't seem to find that kind of leader lately, I hate my money wasted on stupid mismanagement. Republicans aren't managing the government coffers much better, but at least I can keep more of my money with them in office most of the time. Trump is causing some real problems because he's some weird hybrid politician whose policies are a mix of Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian. He seems out of touch with the modern world economy.

Then again I believe the Democrats are stuck in the 60s for policy and the Republicans are stuck in the 80s and with Trump much farther back since we're harkening back to William McKinley to find a tariff president.

You're smart to take a class for investing. It's not something to hop into without having some knowledge of how to do it. You don't want to get talked into gambling with stock pushers selling dreams of riches on risky investments. You want to build the skill to analyze the risk-reward profile of an investment and invest your money wisely for your and your family's prosperity. Take the class, pick up some good books like those written by Peter Lynch or Warren Buffett, and find some quality Youtubers who do some stock analysis like Financial Education, Cameron Stewart, and Chip Stock Investor. Take it slow, get your feet wet, see how it works and get a feel for investing.

I avoid most short-term trading as I don't like the time risk associated with trading. I am mostly a long-term investor who likes to pick a stock and stay with it as a company grows.

And there is also index investing which you can learn as well. Index ETFs and other types of ETFs can give you exposure to groups of stocks that can reduce your concentration risk in a particular stock while still giving you good exposure to the growth and gains of a wide variety of stocks in a given sector.

Don't overlook fixed income investments like bonds with interest rates at a level where the gains can be solid if unspectacular with nearly no risk of loss.

Glad to see you starting to learn to invest. It's a good skill to learn. It's much like buying a car or any other item, but the item you buy will go up in value over time as long as you buy quality.

[River Dog]

OK, good to know you do have investments, ASF. I guess you're just saying you don't play around with stocks. I don't either, but I'm about to take an investing course. Mostly, I started saving for retirement with my employer 401k program 30+ years ago. It's unfuriating to think how one month of Trump can undo so much of the gains that my 401k has seen. I'm glad to hear there aren't too many MAGA here on the forum, but unfortunately I deal with a lot of it in my life, starting with my 83 year old mom who is a smart lady, but has bought into the Trump cult. I have aunts and uncles like that, too. I'm originally from the Philippines, which is a pretty religous right-leaning country, so it's not surprising though still disappointing to see how willingly the older generation is willing, even prefers, autocratic rule, as it tends to be right wing, ban abortions, etc. heck, in the Philippines, they even ban divorce, so officially no one is divorced lol. Instead they have something omplicated called an 'anullment'. It's a 90% catholic country, which is both good and bad.

But I digress. Up here in Canada, there is in general more unity in the country. They have the usual debates between liberals and conversatives, but outside of a few looney tunes, even conservatives here think Trump is a huge jerk, and I'd say the interim PM Mark Carney enjoys pretty massive support to win the upcoming snap election be the offical PM. His talk on moving ahead without the US as an ally is resonating throughout the country. His first visit after taking over from Trudeau was not to the US as is tradition. Instead he flew to England and France to visit with their leaders, as well as the traditional head of first nations government in Canada. He is nobody's fool (PhD in economics from Oxford), and from social media I can see that people are feeling comfortable with his leadership in uncomfortable times. His message is that we are in for tough time, but we will make it through together. It's a pretty special time in Canada. And yes, I have many Canadian friends (many born in other countries but have become permanent residents are applying to be) who either are cancelling planned trips to the US, or don't even want to risk going across the border. So much goodwill burned by one orange madman and his sycophants. Watching Rubio who used to speak in a balanced tone now fall in line under Trump is just as troubling as anything else.

I'll join ASF in lauding you for your taking a class in investing. One of the things lacking in our educational system in the US is that they don't teach much about money management or personal finance. I credit what I know with going to a number of free classes and seminars, some with complimentary dinner or lunch. You have to put up with their sales pitch, but the information they present is excellent and their advice sound. I've also lobbied my former employer, to no avail, to start holding voluntary classes on it at work. I had employees of mine, hearing that I knew a thing or two about the subject, come to me for advice, and I didn't feel comfortable giving it to them because I'm not a professional and would feel guilty as hell if they acted on my advice and the market turned south.

Anyhow, welcome back!

[Aseahawkfan]

Did you read how these "tariffs" were calculated? Apparently they calculated the percentage by the percentage in the trade deficit between nations. Trade deficits are completely normal between a strong economic nation with a powerful currency and a poor nation with a weak currency that produces some low cost item like clothes to maintain industry selling cheap items to America due to low labor costs. Most of these nations have no power to engage a trade war. Only nations like China have the population and market size to engage in a real trade war and if China wasn't such a closed economy, they'd probably be laughing all the way to the bank for Trump giving them a gift of making them the friendlier trading partner.

What a ridiculous formula.

[River Dog]

Did you read how these "tariffs" were calculated? Apparently they calculated the percentage by the percentage in the trade deficit between nations. Trade deficits are completely normal between a strong economic nation with a powerful currency and a poor nation with a weak currency that produces some low cost item like clothes to maintain industry selling cheap items to America due to low labor costs. Most of these nations have no power to engage a trade war. Only nations like China have the population and market size to engage in a real trade war and if China wasn't such a closed economy, they'd probably be laughing all the way to the bank for Trump giving them a gift of making them the friendlier trading partner.

What a ridiculous formula.

I didn't realize that, but nothing about these tariffs makes any sense other than an attitude to stick it to the rest of the world that has been "ripping us off" for decades.

This could cause irreparable harm to our economy that could take years to mend. One of the factors that led to the Great Depression was the implementation of tariffs. Markets don't always bounce back quickly.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 increased import tariffs by about 20%, kicking off a global trade war that contributed to the Great Depression's ill effects.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 raised U.S. import duties with the goal of protecting American farmers and businesses from foreign competition. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act is now widely blamed for worsening the severity of the Great Depression in the U.S. and around the world.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sm ... ff-act.asp

I'm not predicting another Great Depression, but our economy, as well as other economies around the world, are more dependent on international trade than they were in 1930.

Today will be Black Monday once the markets open in another couple of hours. I'm genuinely afraid to look at my retirement accounts.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump cracked first on the tariffs. Constant calls from other billionaires and Elon freaking out finally got to him. 90 day break and market big rise.

I expanded some good positions, but would have loved to see another 1000 point drop.

[River Dog]

Musk has openly broken with Trump and is pretty much out of his inner circle. Trump himself has said that Musk will "probably leave in a few months."

There are some questions being asked about Trump's motivation for cracking so soon on the tariffs. Was it intentional, was he trying to scare Wall Street into this huge sell off only to turn around a week later and go back on his word? He did say that "this would be a great time to buy."

This is one of the reasons why I've never become a Trump supporter. He's unpredictable, can't be trusted. He doesn't have any kind of moral or philosophical compass. People used to complain about Bush 41 going back on his "no new taxes" pledge. Trump's ten times more unpredictable.

[Aseahawkfan]

Musk has openly broken with Trump and is pretty much out of his inner circle. Trump himself has said that Musk will "probably leave in a few months."

There are some questions being asked about Trump's motivation for cracking so soon on the tariffs. Was it intentional, was he trying to scare Wall Street into this huge sell off only to turn around a week later and go back on his word? He did say that "this would be a great time to buy."

This is one of the reasons why I've never become a Trump supporter. He's unpredictable, can't be trusted. He doesn't have any kind of moral or philosophical compass. People used to complain about Bush 41 going back on his "no new taxes" pledge. Trump's ten times more unpredictable.

His tariff strategy is unsophisticated and a blunt instrument. It allows a nation like China to undercut us as the world's second biggest market just as their cell phones, EVs, and chips are reaching parity with the United States. That's going to damage American producers in foreign markets which fuel a major part of their earnings. China may resist Trump's tariffs and Trump may find out that China has grown big and strong enough to resist American coercion and make deals on their own outside of America. China's technology is reaching parity with the United States. If we attack their economy as we are now, whose to say they don't just take Taiwan really taking control of chip manufacturing for the world. If I were Taiwan and I had the United States acting as Trump is acting toward them, I'd just say "screw you" and take Taiwan. Then I control all Chinese production and Taiwan can't produce chips for a foreign competitor and my nation can produce chips for the world making deals to undercut America, better deals than Trump's insane tariffs.

Trump wants to work against China, but doesn't seem to get that this methodology of pissing everyone off isn't going to work.

[River Dog]

His (Trump's) tariff strategy is unsophisticated and a blunt instrument. It allows a nation like China to undercut us as the world's second biggest market just as their cell phones, EVs, and chips are reaching parity with the United States. That's going to damage American producers in foreign markets which fuel a major part of their earnings. China may resist Trump's tariffs and Trump may find out that China has grown big and strong enough to resist American coercion and make deals on their own outside of America. China's technology is reaching parity with the United States. If we attack their economy as we are now, whose to say they don't just take Taiwan really taking control of chip manufacturing for the world. If I were Taiwan and I had the United States acting as Trump is acting toward them, I'd just say "screw you" and take Taiwan. Then I control all Chinese production and Taiwan can't produce chips for a foreign competitor and my nation can produce chips for the world making deals to undercut America, better deals than Trump's insane tariffs.

Trump wants to work against China, but doesn't seem to get that this methodology of pissing everyone off isn't going to work.

Trump's tariff strategy might have worked back in 1960 when we had a 40% share of the global economy when the rest of the world was playing catch up during the post WW2 era. He seems to think that we're some sort of giant that can bully others to get his way. But today, with our global economic share being less than 13% and projected to fall to less than 12% by 2030, it just doesn't work.

We'll see how these tariffs. It's hard for me to believe that even with all the incompetence that he's surrounded himself with, that his economic advisors would encourage him to stick with the tariffs, that he's cutting his nose off to spite his face. I haven't seen an economist anywhere that has come out in support of them. What I'm hoping for is that other countries will make some sort of token concession so that Trump can do his touchdown dance and claim that he won. It's either that or he sets off a global recession and lets the inflation genie out of the bottle.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump's tariff strategy might have worked back in 1960 when we had a 40% share of the global economy when the rest of the world was playing catch up during the post WW2 era. He seems to think that we're some sort of giant that can bully others to get his way. But today, with our global economic share being less than 13% and projected to fall to less than 12% by 2030, it just doesn't work.

We'll see how these tariffs. It's hard for me to believe that even with all the incompetence that he's surrounded himself with, that his economic advisors would encourage him to stick with the tariffs, that he's cutting his nose off to spite his face. I haven't seen an economist anywhere that has come out in support of them. What I'm hoping for is that other countries will make some sort of token concession so that Trump can do his touchdown dance and claim that he won. It's either that or he sets off a global recession and lets the inflation genie out of the bottle.

Now he's calling for rate cuts which would further fuel inflation.

Then again there is no situation I can see where the government, both parties, don't need to inflate their way out of the current debt. For whatever reason Democratic voters and their supposed education superiority can't see that the debt load in America is so high it actually is massively impacting the economy causing huge interest payments. It's become so large that there is no way to pay it off, the government can only increase inflation then hope they can somehow get control of spending after inflating their way to a smaller national debt.

Do you know how many times I've heard Democratic voters tell me the "The national debt is no big deal" even though every economist out there states the national debt is unsustainable and any household or business that operated like the Federal and State and even Local governments would go bankrupt, but for some reason once it's the government they can just build up enormous debt with no consequences.

Even the Republicans pretend they care, while they do tax cuts for the wealthy and yet seem unable to cut spending enough to account for them.

Then they pit the Democratic and Republican voters against each other so each side digs in on their sides economic plan while never bothering to see that both Dems and Republicans economic plan is going to bankrupt America creating massive misery at some point.

It's a shame it's reached this point.

[River Dog]

Trump's tariff strategy might have worked back in 1960 when we had a 40% share of the global economy when the rest of the world was playing catch up during the post WW2 era. He seems to think that we're some sort of giant that can bully others to get his way. But today, with our global economic share being less than 13% and projected to fall to less than 12% by 2030, it just doesn't work.

We'll see how these tariffs. It's hard for me to believe that even with all the incompetence that he's surrounded himself with, that his economic advisors would encourage him to stick with the tariffs, that he's cutting his nose off to spite his face. I haven't seen an economist anywhere that has come out in support of them. What I'm hoping for is that other countries will make some sort of token concession so that Trump can do his touchdown dance and claim that he won. It's either that or he sets off a global recession and lets the inflation genie out of the bottle.

Now he's calling for rate cuts which would further fuel inflation.

Yeah, he's been calling for an interest rate cut since he was sworn in. It's hard to believe that Trump has a degree in economics from an Ivy League school.

Then again there is no situation I can see where the government, both parties, don't need to inflate their way out of the current debt. For whatever reason Democratic voters and their supposed education superiority can't see that the debt load in America is so high it actually is massively impacting the economy causing huge interest payments. It's become so large that there is no way to pay it off, the government can only increase inflation then hope they can somehow get control of spending after inflating their way to a smaller national debt.

Do you know how many times I've heard Democratic voters tell me the "The national debt is no big deal" even though every economist out there states the national debt is unsustainable and any household or business that operated like the Federal and State and even Local governments would go bankrupt, but for some reason once it's the government they can just build up enormous debt with no consequences.

Even the Republicans pretend they care, while they do tax cuts for the wealthy and yet seem unable to cut spending enough to account for them.

Then they pit the Democratic and Republican voters against each other so each side digs in on their sides economic plan while never bothering to see that both Dems and Republicans economic plan is going to bankrupt America creating massive misery at some point.

It's a shame it's reached this point.

It's a sad situation. The Democrats don't know their arse from a warm rock when it comes to anything fiscally related, and Trump's making them look like geniuses. Both parties do nothing but kick the can down the road. I'm ready for a 3rd party, this two party system of ours is broken beyond repair.

[Aseahawkfan]

If DOGE and Trump said they were making massive cuts and planned to pay down the National Debt, I'd be happier, especially if it happened. But he's talking about sending money back to us as some kind of populist bullshit payout we're supposed to like even as they continue to manage the government irresponsibly and pushing even more tax cuts rather than paying down more national debt.

The Democrats always talking about taxing the rich, while it always ends up falling on working people. The rich can leave to other nations and they do. I see more and more wealthy people moving to Singapore or abroad to avoid taxes. So it's nothing more than token taxes to try to tax the global rich who can move their wealth and assets out of America. So it always ends up coming back on working Americans.

Democrats and Republicans should both be held accountable for responsible fiscal management. The government is not a Liberal Democratic charity and not only there so rich can convince all tax cuts for "job creators aka business noble class" will make it all good. Taxes are inflationary and always have been, especially on the working class. And tax cuts just for the rich so the business owners can employ us is horsecrap too.

Working people work for a living and should own more of their own labor and productivity. Just because some guy has built a business that provides a job doesn't mean the person working the job should somehow bow down and be grateful. They are proving labor and consumption for that person as well as paying the tax bills to the government on their labor while getting the fewest breaks having to pay a huge cost just to own a piece of land with a home on it. Then on that home they pay the base cost, pay interest on the mortgage, and pay the taxes to the government for living in it. Then all it takes to maintain the home. Even homes due to their expense have become this Matrix-like money suction machine on working people with lines of money vacuuming going to the government, the bank, and every other maintenance cost and tax associated with owning it. Then after 30 plus years if they can maintain the mortgage with no financial collapse causing them to lose their job and house, then get to say, "I have paid off house I can live in as long as I can keep paying my property tax aka government rent."

It's amazing how no matter the government system, working class guy is always hooked up to that resource sucking machine in the modern world. It's a wonder more people don't go mad, wander into the woods, and start living like a caveman.

People muse about The Matrix eventually taking over, but it seems it already has given working humans in the modern world are basically resource batteries for governments and businesses.

[Aseahawkfan]

Riverdog, you check in much to this El Salvadoran guy the Democrats are rallying around? Conservative news claims this guy is MS-13. Liberal news claims this guy has no criminal history. Conservative friends saying he has an MS-12 tattoo on his hands which honestly for me is enough to get rid of him. But if not, then I'm not sure he should have been deported.

I'm all for deporting criminals and especially known gangs or drug cartel members out of the nation. You don't want people like that building drug distribution networks and criminals enterprises in your nation and you don't want lawyers playing games to keep them here.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/19/politics/abrego-garcia-trump-administration-violent-gang-member/index.html

I don't know how to view this. On the one hand, I think it is very important to destroy gangs and cartels before they are able to build up in your nation or you end up like El Salvador or Mexico, but at the same time I'm not real keen on sending an innocent guy into the prisons with these people.

Damn. If only both parties had made sure to responsibly handle immigration before we reached this point. We have some real problems and bad leadership right now.

[River Dog]

Riverdog, you check in much to this El Salvadoran guy the Democrats are rallying around? Conservative news claims this guy is MS-13. Liberal news claims this guy has no criminal history. Conservative friends saying he has an MS-12 tattoo on his hands which honestly for me is enough to get rid of him. But if not, then I'm not sure he should have been deported.

I'm all for deporting criminals and especially known gangs or drug cartel members out of the nation. You don't want people like that building drug distribution networks and criminals enterprises in your nation and you don't want lawyers playing games to keep them here.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/19/politics/abrego-garcia-trump-administration-violent-gang-member/index.html

I don't know how to view this. On the one hand, I think it is very important to destroy gangs and cartels before they are able to build up in your nation or you end up like El Salvador or Mexico, but at the same time I'm not real keen on sending an innocent guy into the prisons with these people.

Damn. If only both parties had made sure to responsibly handle immigration before we reached this point. We have some real problems and bad leadership right now.

Yes, I'm aware of that case, but to tell you the truth, I haven't looked into the story close enough to see what kind of evidence they have against them. I'm not sure if a 1798 alien enemies' law is appropriate to use to deport them. We're not exactly friends with Venezuela, but we're not at war with them, either. I also don't want to see them denied due process simply because they're accused of being members of a crime ring. IMO a tattoo alone isn't sufficient evidence to deport this guy, at least not without some type of supporting evidence. Do kids in Venezuela get gang related tattoos as a copycat type thing, to impress their friends? I'd certainly put him under some pretty harsh interrogation.

It would seem to me that there should be some sort of compromise, like making them wear some sort of electronic device, implanting a chip in them or something to track their whereabouts and monitor their communications if they want to stay in the country and out of jail while their case works its way through the courts. I don't know if that's practical or not.

These sorts of people should be stopped at the border, not allowed to enter even on a temporary visa if there's the slightest question about their integrity as a citizen. In that situation, IMO a tattoo is sufficient evidence to deny entry to a non-citizen. If we didn't do a good job of vetting them and they slipped through the cracks, then that's on us. Once they've been properly vetted and legally admitted into the country, I feel that they have the right to due process as if they were a citizen.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yes, I'm aware of that case, but to tell you the truth, I haven't looked into the story close enough to see what kind of evidence they have against them. I'm not sure if a 1798 alien enemies' law is appropriate to use to deport them. We're not exactly friends with Venezuela, but we're not at war with them, either. I also don't want to see them denied due process simply because they're accused of being members of a crime ring. IMO a tattoo alone isn't sufficient evidence to deport this guy, at least not without some type of supporting evidence. Do kids in Venezuela get gang related tattoos as a copycat type thing, to impress their friends? I'd certainly put him under some pretty harsh interrogation.

It would seem to me that there should be some sort of compromise, like making them wear some sort of electronic device, implanting a chip in them or something to track their whereabouts and monitor their communications if they want to stay in the country and out of jail while their case works its way through the courts. I don't know if that's practical or not.

These sorts of people should be stopped at the border, not allowed to enter even on a temporary visa if there's the slightest question about their integrity as a citizen. In that situation, IMO a tattoo is sufficient evidence to deny entry to a non-citizen. If we didn't do a good job of vetting them and they slipped through the cracks, then that's on us. Once they've been properly vetted and legally admitted into the country, I feel that they have the right to due process as if they were a citizen.

I would prefer some sort of proper process as well.

It seems the political war in this nation has made it so you have political parties using immigration as a political issue that divides the nation with the Republicans claiming they enforce the law even though they fail to punish businesses that employ labor that has illegally entered the nation to keep the cheap labor and Democrats want to push it as a humanitarian issue with some far leftists pushing for open borders with no real border enforcement because Americans stole the land from the natives. So there seems to be no real hard push for controlled immigration until Trump.

Now part of me believes that behind the scenes the leaders in the Republican and Democratic Party have discussed this issue and are engaged in political theater which is why this issue isn't solved. Trump as a businessman doesn't believe in political theater (that's why he's not good at it), so he's running immigration with a real intent of limiting it. He's made his anti-immigrant supporters happy, while the power players behind the scenes are not happy much at all because they understand that with birth rates low and the need for increased population for taxes and consumption had no real intent on limiting immigration. They want a bunch of people to pay taxes and work and consume as it fuels economic growth since our economy is built around population growth which leads to increased consumption and thus tax revenues since tax revenues and profits are built around consumption and employment.

Capitalism thrives with more people doing work and making as much money as possible. When birth rates drop as they have, the only way for a nation to maintain population growth to maintain economic growth is immigration. Trump is doing something that the power players of each party don't want: limiting immigration.

It really seems he's doing things that will tank the economy or cause immense inflation. Limiting immigration which will decrease the number of consumers and taxpayers in the nation. Tariffs which will drive up prices for Americans and takes years to reshore manufacturing which will still lead to increased costs due to higher labor in America. Cut taxes that will lead to increased deficits. Cut government spending which will lead to decreased consumption and employment. Then hoping The Fed lowering interest rates will increase liquidity to increase investment. I guess we'll see how many of these companies promising investment in America come through with it and if we have the labor capacity with 4 percent unemployment to reshore manufacturing jobs.

[Stream Hawk]

This part of the s**t show is kind of a big deal, again. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... men-attack
It’s the pure laziness that gets me, in addition to the irony. Hillary’s emails, anyone?! I think it’s closer to 50/50 this might wake the reps up. Trump will do nothing, as he is next level trying to become an aging & confused dictator.

[River Dog]

This part of the s**t show is kind of a big deal, again. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... men-attack
It’s the pure laziness that gets me, in addition to the irony. Hillary’s emails, anyone?! I think it’s closer to 50/50 this might wake the reps up. Trump will do nothing, as he is next level trying to become an aging & confused dictator.

That story has pretty much run its course. I don't see it amounting to anything. That doesn't mean I'm not outraged about it, just that I don't see it having any legs as far as resulting in any kind of shake-up within the administration.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah right, run it's course. Until we find ourselves with allies no longer willing to share intelligence with us, or get our own assets killed because we've compromised our own ops. This is an ongoing recurrent problem, not a one off incident that has been dismissed from the news cycle. Project 25 has our sock puppets more concerned with keeping secrets from 'the radical right' than our actual enemies. Nothing about this has run it's course.

[Aseahawkfan]

That story has pretty much run its course. I don't see it amounting to anything. That doesn't mean I'm not outraged about it, just that I don't see it having any legs as far as resulting in any kind of shake-up within the administration.

We'll see what comes of it. It does matter if it leads to real measurable damage like the death of Americans. As far as shared intelligence, our allies will share intelligence. Fact is America is still the most powerful nation in the world even with an idiot as president and no one will wreck the relationship with America when their options are China run by overly controlling Communists and Russia run by Vladimir Putin. All our allies know we have a self-correcting government that in four years will elect a new president. So all they have to do is wait out the idiot and hope the next candidate isn't a charismatic populists rehashing isolationist economic and foreign policy from pre-1960s. Be nice to get a president that did have some sense of reshoring certain industries, but not an idiot swinging a bat labeled tariffs with fools in his cabinet accidentally adding reporters and other uncleared participants to top secret signal chats.

Hegseth's drinking problem may be affecting his idiot texting. He may be drunk texting. We'll see how long Trump tolerates drunk texting by a Secretary of Defense.

[River Dog]

It really seems he's doing things that will tank the economy or cause immense inflation. Limiting immigration which will decrease the number of consumers and taxpayers in the nation. Tariffs which will drive up prices for Americans and takes years to reshore manufacturing which will still lead to increased costs due to higher labor in America. Cut taxes that will lead to increased deficits. Cut government spending which will lead to decreased consumption and employment. Then hoping The Fed lowering interest rates will increase liquidity to increase investment. I guess we'll see how many of these companies promising investment in America come through with it and if we have the labor capacity with 4 percent unemployment to reshore manufacturing jobs.

He's not just cracking down on immigration, he's hurting the tourism industry by making it more difficult for foreigners to travel here even for just a couple of weeks.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to dealing with our declining birth rate. Japan's birth rate is even lower than ours, and they've reacted by admitting more immigrants. In Tokyo, 10% of those people in their 20's were born outside of Japan. On my tour of Australia, I was surprised at how diverse their population was as there were tons of Asians with obvious foreign accents, especially in the big cities like Melbourne and Sydney. Trump and his followers are being intentionally obtuse by ignoring how the world has and is continuing to change. Whether his followers want to admit it or not, Trump is appealing to their racist tendencies, and it's working. Even the MAGA slogan can be de-coded as Make America White Again as he's advocating turning the colander back to a time when the demographics in this country were much different.

[River Dog]

Yeah right, run it's course. Until we find ourselves with allies no longer willing to share intelligence with us, or get our own assets killed because we've compromised our own ops. This is an ongoing recurrent problem, not a one off incident that has been dismissed from the news cycle. Project 25 has our sock puppets more concerned with keeping secrets from 'the radical right' than our actual enemies. Nothing about this has run it's course.

What I mean by run its course is that it's not going to result in any changes as they would have already occurred by now. It's an old story that people have already heard, so it doesn't have any shock value. It's going to take something more, something along the lines of what you suggested, like countries refusing to share intelligence or a failed military operation with a loss of life that can be tied to a security leak from one of these knuckleheads.

And I agree with you, that it's an ongoing problem that is a huge risk to our brave men and women who are putting themselves in harm's way. Like I said, I'm outraged by it. I was just being analytical about its impact.

[Stream Hawk]

What I mean by run its course is that it's not going to result in any changes as they would have already occurred by now. It's an old story that people have already heard, so it doesn't have any shock value. It's going to take something more, something along the lines of what you suggested, like countries refusing to share intelligence or a failed military operation with a loss of life that can be tied to a security leak from one of these knuckleheads.

And I agree with you, that it's an ongoing problem that is a huge risk to our brave men and women who are putting themselves in harm's way. Like I said, I'm outraged by it. I was just being analytical about its impact.

I don’t understand how Signal gate could have run its course yet. The incident I was referring to was a second signal chat Hegseth had with his wife, brother, and lawyer about the Yemen operation. About as classified as they come.

Yes, it could be drunk texting and gloating, but WTF. How is that an excuse? I saw a story this morning that recently departed members of the DoD said the whole place is in fact a s**t show. There were also murmurs that Hegseth’s time could be coming to an end. Maybe the next secretary will be from Newsmax?

[River Dog]

What I mean by run its course is that it's not going to result in any changes as they would have already occurred by now. It's an old story that people have already heard, so it doesn't have any shock value. It's going to take something more, something along the lines of what you suggested, like countries refusing to share intelligence or a failed military operation with a loss of life that can be tied to a security leak from one of these knuckleheads.

And I agree with you, that it's an ongoing problem that is a huge risk to our brave men and women who are putting themselves in harm's way. Like I said, I'm outraged by it. I was just being analytical about its impact.

I don’t understand how Signal gate could have run its course yet. The incident I was referring to was a second signal chat Hegseth had with his wife, brother, and lawyer about the Yemen operation. About as classified as they come.

Yes, it could be drunk texting and gloating, but WTF. How is that an excuse? I saw a story this morning that recently departed members of the DoD said the whole place is in fact a s**t show. There were also murmurs that Hegseth’s time could be coming to an end. Maybe the next secretary will be from Newsmax?

Look, I agree with you guys about the seriousness of this. It's outrageous, the biggest security lapse in my memory. Hegseth should have never been nominated in the first place. He met one job requirement, and that was that he was a Trump loyalist. Nothing else mattered.

I'm just being practical. It's not the lead story on the evening news. The Pope passing away the day after Easter, the shooting at FSU, and Trump's deportation controversy are all getting talked about a lot more than Signalgate. If you don't believe me, look and see for yourself. Here's CBS's current front page. Signalgate doesn't even appear on the section about the Trump Whitehouse. You have to page way down to the bottom of the page to find a video that talks about the Hegesth controversy:

https://www.cbsnews.com/

There's no way Trump is going to fire Hegesth, not this early in his term. He'll ignore it, ride it out.

[Aseahawkfan]

Look, I agree with you guys. It's outrageous, the biggest security lapse in my memory. Hegseth should have never been nominated in the first place. He met one job requirement, and that was that he was a Trump loyalist. Nothing else mattered.

I'm just being practical. It's not the lead story on the evening news. The Pope passing away the day after Easter, the shooting at FSU, and Trump's deportation controversy are all getting talked about a lot more than Signalgate. If you don't believe me, look and see for yourself. Here's CBS's current front page. Signalgate doesn't even appear on the section about the Trump Whitehouse. You have to page way down to the bottom of the page to find a video that talks about the Hegesth controversy:

https://www.cbsnews.com/

There's no way Trump is going to fire Hegesth, not this early in his term. He'll ignore it, ride it out.

We already know from past incidences like this, someone has to die before something is done, sometimes not even then or the press really has to push it and the White House will do damage control. So far this isn't the worse result from security lapses like when our embassy was attacked and ripped apart when our Secretary of State failed to send proper assistance to support intelligence of an attack on the embassy in 2012 after help was requested. The Big Wigs tossed the rank and file in front of the bus and skated out of it mostly unscathed. We can stack up incidents like this over the years by both parties and the subsequent scapegoating of the rank and file, but only after an undeniable scandal with measurable damage.

Just how it works. I tend to agree with you on this, Riverdog. We won't see much done unless something real happens, Trump gets tired of the public scrutiny if the press really pushes it, or for some other unforeseen reason Hegseth is tossed out. I don't think he has the political juice of past politicians who have withstood such scrutiny, so his sole protection is his lord's favor.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don’t understand how Signal gate could have run its course yet. The incident I was referring to was a second signal chat Hegseth had with his wife, brother, and lawyer about the Yemen operation. About as classified as they come.

Yes, it could be drunk texting and gloating, but WTF. How is that an excuse? I saw a story this morning that recently departed members of the DoD said the whole place is in fact a s**t show. There were also murmurs that Hegseth’s time could be coming to an end. Maybe the next secretary will be from Newsmax?

What excuse? No one posting right now likes Trump.

Personally, I wouldn't put a drunk anywhere near any important position or even someone with a potential history of excessive drinking. I don't consume alcohol. I don't even enjoy being around people impaired by alcohol. It's why I was never a partier when young and don't go to bars or even really enjoy gatherings with excessive drinking.

When I post, it's mostly for basic reality of how I have seen things work over the years. Each party becoming outraged by the other party doing stupid things, some of them illegal, but not actually holding their own party members to better behavior. Both parties voting in liars, hypocrites, and other false leaders.

Now we got Trump because political parties have no standards, maybe they never did. Just empty talk and push anyone up who you think has a chance to win, then serve the agenda of whoever put them in office, then run the up the deficit more, claim nothing is going to happen, as we move closer and closer to bankruptcy with neither party doing much to stop it. Empty rhetoric and empty suits that has led us to...this. The emptiest of empty...a reality TV star as president running the government like he's trying to get high TV ratings by doing outrageous things.

I've been watching Reagan videos to remember what it was like in the past when we had a leader that made you feel good about America. A president that could speak in public with grace and intelligence, even spontaneously. I've been tired of these presidents since Bill Clinton's second term. I've been tired of political parties since George Bush Jr.s second term. Just tiresome obvious liars and followers who don't have any standards for leaders and believe the lies from these people's mouths.

[River Dog]

We already know from past incidences like this, someone has to die before something is done, sometimes not even then or the press really has to push it and the White House will do damage control. So far this isn't the worse result from security lapses like when our embassy was attacked and ripped apart when our Secretary of State failed to send proper assistance to support intelligence of an attack on the embassy in 2012 after help was requested. The Big Wigs tossed the rank and file in front of the bus and skated out of it mostly unscathed. We can stack up incidents like this over the years by both parties and the subsequent scapegoating of the rank and file, but only after an undeniable scandal with measurable damage.

Just how it works. I tend to agree with you on this, Riverdog. We won't see much done unless something real happens, Trump gets tired of the public scrutiny if the press really pushes it, or for some other unforeseen reason Hegseth is tossed out. I don't think he has the political juice of past politicians who have withstood such scrutiny, so his sole protection is his lord's favor.

As far as the consequences goes, you're right, this is not the biggest security lapse. So far, there hasn't been any consequences, at least none that we know of. But it is the most preventable, the most careless act involving national security in my memory. And to think that Trump is deporting immigrants that speak out against his policies in the name of them being a national security risk.

[I-5]

I know we’re not of the same political stripes, but Riv and ASF your musings on the ridiculousness of the tariffs is right on point. It’s interesting that at one point, Musk was holding court in the Oval Office while holding his kid back from almost pushing Trump out of the Resolute Desk to allow his own father to be the real president, and now seems to be on the outside looking in. His company Tesla has been hit with the double whammy of Trump’s tariffs as well as the global backlash against him that the buying public seems to be making (not just in the US). I also read that the true architect of the tariff strategy is Peter Navarro.

Just to ask a rhetorical question since no one here can prove or disprove whether Trump is somehow compromised. Here is the question; if Trump is indeed a Kremlin/KGB asset, do his actions and words make more sense?

[Aseahawkfan]

I know we’re not of the same political stripes, but Riv and ASF your musings on the ridiculousness of the tariffs is right on point. It’s interesting that at one point, Musk was holding court in the Oval Office while holding his kid back from almost pushing Trump out of the Resolute Desk to allow his own father to be the real president, and now seems to be on the outside looking in. His company Tesla has been hit with the double whammy of Trump’s tariffs as well as the global backlash against him that the buying public seems to be making (not just in the US). I also read that the true architect of the tariff strategy is Peter Navarro.

Just to ask a rhetorical question since no one here can prove or disprove whether Trump is somehow compromised. Here is the question; if Trump is indeed a Kremlin/KGB asset, do his actions and words make more sense?

No. His words and actions are in line with what talked about in the 80s as far as tariffs go. As far as the rest, he doesn't believe half the stuff coming of his mouth. I think it is a bad idea to suddenly believe a proven liar because you want to believe a narrative pushed by the media.

I think the compromised Russian Asset propaganda is being pushed by the Clintons and Obamas as payback for the birther issue and the embarrassment Trump visited upon the Clintons bringing all the women to the debates that accused Bill Clinton of harassment and inappropriate behavior. If you follow the Steele Dossier which was the document used to fabricate the Russian Asset Theory it was started by a Republican political opponent to use against Trump during the primaries then sold to Hilary Clinton's campaign by the Republican group that initiated it as a political weapon to use against Trump. The Steel Dossier's sourcing is all documented, but ignored by liberal media sources because it undermines the Russian Asset Theory that the left likes to use against Trump. Same as the Project 2025 rubbish. It's leftist propaganda that the Democratic voters eat up, same as you see when the right tries to sell Obama as some kind of racist hating white people or not being a United States citizen. Just rubbish.

I know too many people have short-term memories, but Trump was a major source of the birther nonsense against Obama that tried to paint him as some foreign born citizen placed in the presidency to undermine America. So they paid Trump back with the Russian Asset narrative.

I'm going to provide the same argument I did with the Birthers who were not thinking this out very well.

1. If Trump is a Russian asset or compromised and a foreign nation can install a president they control, it means that both of our political parties are compromised or too weak to defend America. They can't properly vet candidates and can't find sufficient evidence to stop a foreign power from installing a president.

2. That American inteligence agencies are either completely corrupt or incompetent and incapable of stopping a foreign power from installing an American president that does their bidding.

3. That our allies and all their intelligence agencies are completely incapable of figuring out a foreign power is installing a president in the United States loyal to a foreign power.

4. That Trump himself and his family or close confidantes which are every changing are either also Russian assets or so incredibly incompetent and stupid that they are all incapable of figuring out a foreign power has been installed as president of the United States in charge of our all Americas intelligence, military, and economic apparatus.

5. That Trump is so hyper-competent and powerful that he is able to fool both political parties, hide enough evidence from both political parties, outmaneuver American intelligence agencies, outmaneuver all foreign intelligence agencies allied with America to conceal he is a compromised Russian asset.

6. That Russia was able to not only beat all of our intelligence agencies, both political parties, but also manipulate American elections sufficiently to install the candidate they want against all attempts by America to secure its elections.

7. Then somehow have devised a plan they are having Trump carry out while also beating all our intelligence agencies, both our political parties, all Americas allies to have their bidding done.

8. Then you would have to see Russia benefiting in a way they haven't been benefiting from for years.

9. Then explain why Russia if Trump is the Russian Asset has been taking more and more of Ukraine under Democratic administrations. He waits until a Democrat is in office to attack Ukraine. Why not wait to attack when their compromised Russian asset is in office?

Trump as a Russian Asset is left wing version of the Birther Rubbish and the real looney stuff like the moon landing didn't happen or the Bush Administration helped engineering the 9/11 attacks and so on and so on. It requires a tremendous number of variables to fall in to place in a way that has never happened in the nation's history.

If the Democrats truly believe and have proof Trump is a Russian asset and the Republican Party is compromised, they would and should be doing a whole lot more than they are. They should literally be launching a violent revolution to retake the country, not just squawking in the media or the Democratic Party has become the weakest, most pathetic, most unable to defend America group in the history of America.

We Americans would have far bigger problems if our country can now be ruled by a foreign power with both major political parties unable to do anything about it including our multbillion dollar military and intelligence agencies. I would in fact say America is pretty much done as a nation if this has happened.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier

You can give the history of the Steele dossier a read if you want to know how the Trump as Russian Asset theory started. It was most assuredly a political weapon being used as such by Trump's political opponents.

Politics is a game to the powerful. Politicians at the highest level are untrustworthy and serve a variety of masters, most of which are not The People.

America as the most powerful nation in the world with vast and varied political, economic, and military interests worldwide has a lot of players vying for power here and abroad.

If Russia really tried (Or an foreign power for that matter) to install a president or take us over, the power groups in America would not allow it. American politicians (and unelected leadership) may like to embarrass each other and play political media games, but they don't like to share power and certainly won't tolerate someone like Putin exerting too much influence or power in our backyard.

American politicians are far meaner, more powerful, and more capable than the American people can fathom. Trump is just a guy serving the agendas of several powerful economic players in America. When his reign is over, next guy will do the same.

That's the game. If you want to trust nothing else, trust that American power groups have no interest in sharing power in America with Russia or China or anyone else. If Trump were really a Russian asset, he'd be dead before he came close to the presidency.

[River Dog]

Just to ask a rhetorical question since no one here can prove or disprove whether Trump is somehow compromised. Here is the question; if Trump is indeed a Kremlin/KGB asset, do his actions and words make more sense?

Gland to see you back, I-5.

I'm pretty dismissive of conspiracy theories. I need to see a smoking gun before I'll even use the word 'maybe', and in this case, all that can be produced to support this proposition about Trump being a Russian asset is purely circumstantial. Being a Russian asset might explain one or two things about him, but it doesn't explain the big picture. You could say that he's controlled by Martians seeking to conquer the planet and some of his words and actions might make sense.

I don't think all is well with Donald Trump's mind. I think he suffers from some type of mental illness, that he's not all there. He cannot retain basic information. As we age, most of us experience a compromised short-term memory, but our long-term memory is much more durable. At 70 years old, I tell people that I can remember exact, precise details when I was 9 years old of what I was doing and where I was at when JFK was assassinated, but I'll be damned if I can remember where I parked my car. With Trump, he can't even remember basic, long-term facts, like Paris being the capital of France, not Germany, and that Colorado doesn't share a border with Mexico, things that he had to have known at one time and should be ingrained into his long-term memory. No one, especially someone that graduated from college, is that stupid. Something's not right with him, which makes him unpredictable and almost impossible to analyze, make any sense out of his words and actions.

Trump does not have any kind of guiding principle, moral or otherwise. He's a textbook narcissistic, a man with an inflated ego. Whatever he can do to enhance his own self-image, he'll do. That's the only singular thing one can use that explains everything about him and that would help make any sense out of his words and/or actions. It certainly explains his cabinet appointments.

[I-5]

No. His words and actions are in line with what talked about in the 80s as far as tariffs go. As far as the rest, he doesn't believe half the stuff coming of his mouth. I think it is a bad idea to suddenly believe a proven liar because you want to believe a narrative pushed by the media.

I think the compromised Russian Asset propaganda is being pushed by the Clintons and Obamas as payback for the birther issue and the embarrassment Trump visited upon the Clintons bringing all the women to the debates that accused Bill Clinton of harassment and inappropriate behavior. If you follow the Steele Dossier which was the document used to fabricate the Russian Asset Theory it was started by a Republican political opponent to use against Trump during the primaries then sold to Hilary Clinton's campaign by the Republican group that initiated it as a political weapon to use against Trump. The Steel Dossier's sourcing is all documented, but ignored by liberal media sources because it undermines the Russian Asset Theory that the left likes to use against Trump. Same as the Project 2025 rubbish. It's leftist propaganda that the Democratic voters eat up, same as you see when the right tries to sell Obama as some kind of racist hating white people or not being a United States citizen. Just rubbish.

I know too many people have short-term memories, but Trump was a major source of the birther nonsense against Obama that tried to paint him as some foreign born citizen placed in the presidency to undermine America. So they paid Trump back with the Russian Asset narrative.

I'm going to provide the same argument I did with the Birthers who were not thinking this out very well.

1. If Trump is a Russian asset or compromised and a foreign nation can install a president they control, it means that both of our political parties are compromised or too weak to defend America. They can't properly vet candidates and can't find sufficient evidence to stop a foreign power from installing a president.

2. That American inteligence agencies are either completely corrupt or incompetent and incapable of stopping a foreign power from installing an American president that does their bidding.

3. That our allies and all their intelligence agencies are completely incapable of figuring out a foreign power is installing a president in the United States loyal to a foreign power.

4. That Trump himself and his family or close confidantes which are every changing are either also Russian assets or so incredibly incompetent and stupid that they are all incapable of figuring out a foreign power has been installed as president of the United States in charge of our all Americas intelligence, military, and economic apparatus.

5. That Trump is so hyper-competent and powerful that he is able to fool both political parties, hide enough evidence from both political parties, outmaneuver American intelligence agencies, outmaneuver all foreign intelligence agencies allied with America to conceal he is a compromised Russian asset.

6. That Russia was able to not only beat all of our intelligence agencies, both political parties, but also manipulate American elections sufficiently to install the candidate they want against all attempts by America to secure its elections.

7. Then somehow have devised a plan they are having Trump carry out while also beating all our intelligence agencies, both our political parties, all Americas allies to have their bidding done.

8. Then you would have to see Russia benefiting in a way they haven't been benefiting from for years.

9. Then explain why Russia if Trump is the Russian Asset has been taking more and more of Ukraine under Democratic administrations. He waits until a Democrat is in office to attack Ukraine. Why not wait to attack when their compromised Russian asset is in office?

Trump as a Russian Asset is left wing version of the Birther Rubbish and the real looney stuff like the moon landing didn't happen or the Bush Administration helped engineering the 9/11 attacks and so on and so on. It requires a tremendous number of variables to fall in to place in a way that has never happened in the nation's history.

If the Democrats truly believe and have proof Trump is a Russian asset and the Republican Party is compromised, they would and should be doing a whole lot more than they are. They should literally be launching a violent revolution to retake the country, not just squawking in the media or the Democratic Party has become the weakest, most pathetic, most unable to defend America group in the history of America.

We Americans would have far bigger problems if our country can now be ruled by a foreign power with both major political parties unable to do anything about it including our multbillion dollar military and intelligence agencies. I would in fact say America is pretty much done as a nation if this has happened.

You misconstrued my question. I didn’t ask you if you think he’s an asset. That’s not the question. I said if he WAS somehow compromised, then do some of his actions make more sense? For example:

- Suspension of Military Aid and Intelligence Sharing with Ukraine
- Voting Against UN Resolution Condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Closure of Task Force Targeting Russian Oligarchs
- Calls for Russia’s Reinstatement into the G7
- Trump calling Zelensky a dictator lol…because he failed to have a national election during a war, even though it is explicitly outlined in Ukraine’s constitution as the correct process
- Suspension of Offensive Cyber Operations Against Russia - WHY would we do that?
- Advocacy for Joint Energy Projects with Russia - discussed in Riyadh
- Mass Firings at the National Nuclear Security Administration - we never heard there any evidence of fraud reported, they just fired them
- 2,000 laid off at Dept of Energy, again without any evidence of fraud - compromises US power grid management, and infrastructure

I don’t even think I captured most of it. But I don’t see how the US benefits from these actions. I think of benefits a potential adversary more.

[River Dog]

You misconstrued my question. I didn’t ask you if you think he’s an asset. That’s not the question. I said if he WAS somehow compromised, then do some of his actions make more sense? For example:

- Suspension of Military Aid and Intelligence Sharing with Ukraine
- Voting Against UN Resolution Condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Closure of Task Force Targeting Russian Oligarchs
- Calls for Russia’s Reinstatement into the G7
- Trump calling Zelensky a dictator lol…because he failed to have a national election during a war, even though it is explicitly outlined in Ukraine’s constitution as the correct process
- Suspension of Offensive Cyber Operations Against Russia - WHY would we do that?
- Advocacy for Joint Energy Projects with Russia - discussed in Riyadh
- Mass Firings at the National Nuclear Security Administration - we never heard there any evidence of fraud reported, they just fired them
- 2,000 laid off at Dept of Energy, again without any evidence of fraud - compromises US power grid management, and infrastructure

I don’t even think I captured most of it. But I don’t see how the US benefits from these actions. I think of benefits a potential adversary more.

I realize you addressed ASF with this question, but I'll go ahead and give you my answer.

The answer to your question is yes, all of those things you noted would make sense if Trump were a Russian asset. But that doesn't mean that he is one. Everything you listed is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't tie Trump directly to Russia. You need something more, like an intercepted message from Putin to Trump directing him to take some sort of action and Trump responding.

As far as some of your embedded questions, like why he would suspend cyber operations against Russia. The man is nuts, mentally unstable. Who know why he did such a thing. I can't explain it, but the fact that we can't explain it doesn't mean that he's under Putin's thumb. It's simply one possible explanation.

[I-5]

I realize you addressed ASF with this question, but I'll go ahead and give you my answer.

The answer to your question is yes, all of those things you noted would make sense if Trump were a Russian asset. But that doesn't mean that he is one. Everything you listed is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't tie Trump directly to Russia. You need something more, like an intercepted message from Putin to Trump directing him to take some sort of action and Trump responding.

As far as some of your embedded questions, like why he would suspend cyber operations against Russia. The man is nuts, mentally unstable. Who know why he did such a thing. I can't explain it, but the fact that we can't explain it doesn't mean that he's under Putin's thumb. It's simply one possible explanation.

What if he's not actually nuts, Riv? No, he's not the sharpest tool in the drawer, but that's a lot of random things that have happened that seem to not benefit the country. He's not even the one pushing the buttons; it's DOGE, and they are not dumb, but they don't seem to be helping the country with these moves I outlined above.

[Aseahawkfan]

[You misconstrued my question. I didn’t ask you if you think he’s an asset. That’s not the question. I said if he WAS somehow compromised, then do some of his actions make more sense? For example:

- Suspension of Military Aid and Intelligence Sharing with Ukraine
- Voting Against UN Resolution Condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Closure of Task Force Targeting Russian Oligarchs
- Calls for Russia’s Reinstatement into the G7
- Trump calling Zelensky a dictator lol…because he failed to have a national election during a war, even though it is explicitly outlined in Ukraine’s constitution as the correct process
- Suspension of Offensive Cyber Operations Against Russia - WHY would we do that?
- Advocacy for Joint Energy Projects with Russia - discussed in Riyadh
- Mass Firings at the National Nuclear Security Administration - we never heard there any evidence of fraud reported, they just fired them
- 2,000 laid off at Dept of Energy, again without any evidence of fraud - compromises US power grid management, and infrastructure

I don’t even think I captured most of it. But I don’t see how the US benefits from these actions. I think of benefits a potential adversary more.

Russia screwed itself launching this war as no one will trust them. Trump's action are more likely to help China. China has been doing a lot of outreach and are making inroads with EVs, phones, and technology in foreign markets. Russia isn't even a good consumer country. They make almost nothing anyone wants. Their leader is a dictator that doesn't offer economic prosperity or much else other than selling weapons to other dictators and third world holes that can't buy from Europe or the U.S.

What I see is the Libertarian Party's push into the Republican Party finally bearing fruit. About 15 plus years ago I worked with lawyer who was a Libertarian. I worked graveyard and we used to debate some of his viewpoints. Most of it was what I'm hearing from Trump. Some of the stuff this Libertarian was pushing:

1. Slavery wasn't the cause of The Civil War, it was State's Rights. This is a complete lie that ignores the Federal Power wielded by the Slave Holding states and the clauses they put in the Constitution to sustain slavery on a Federal level. Only people who don't know this information would fall for this ridiculous assertion. This one I argued heavily against, but I can see how lesser informed people might be seduced by this ridiculous position.

2. Isolationist: The Libertarian movement this guy was a part of was very isolationist. They didn't believe in foreign wars and wanted to completely remove America's military-industrial complex from controlling the world even though I told him the power vacuum would open things up to Russia and China and other players. We are in competition and we have to lead the world or someone worse will.

3. Anti-immigrant: This guy advocated the shooting of immigrants crossing the border illegally as invaders. Didn't matter if they were unarmed or seeking a better life, they wanted to kill them to stop them from coming, even women and children.

4. Anti-regulation: They wanted to destroy the Department of Education and other regulatory government to push small government and disempower The Federal government. This guy was a lawyer and would argue that Tort Law was sufficient to limit corporate abuse.

5. Anti-Affirmative Action and DEI: Libertarians do not want any racially, gender, or other identity driven government programs or favortism.

6. Federal Income Taxes Reduced: They want federal income taxes reduced. The tariff thing is mostly Trump as I think Libertarians are pro-free trade, so that's all Trump.

7. Anti-Drug Enforcement: Libertarians wanted almost no drug enforcement. Let people use whatever drugs they want and let them suffer the consequences. No more drug users in jail.

8. Love the Constitution: They claim to love the Constitution and want the nation to follow a more pure Constitutional Republic based on the Founding Principles. This is another angle I used to show how slavery was violating the underlying principles of the Constitution by denying enslaved poeples their natural rights and the States never had a right to enslave anyone. I don't know how you can love the Constitution and in anyway think Lincoln was wrong to push the Civil War myself, but people can justify about anything in their minds.

9. Referring to Bush and Reagan Republicans as Necons and RINOs: This is the first time I heard these terms 15 plus years ago.

10. Believing Conspiracy Theories like Loose Change: This guy very much believed that George Bush Jr. and his administration engineered 9/11. They were prime believers in conspiracy theories. They also believe The Fed bank was created to ruin the American people putting them under crushing debt. There is some book they base this on "The Monster" at some lake that is some meeting with a bunch of bankers that wanted to control American currency. I learned so many conspiracy theories from this guy. Funny thing about him is he didn't like cops. He didn't trust them and felt they were servants to The Man. This was a big white dude who didn't like cops. He used to show me videos of cops beating on white people and completely believed the cops beat on black people. He said the country ignores the cops beating and killing people and they completely ignore the cops beating on anyone that isn't black when their was obvious evidence that the cops were beating on whites, Hispanics, and everyone that got out of line. He did find a lot of videos of cops beating people that I never saw in the news on Youtube. Cops apparently beat a lot of people. One of the most memorable videos was a cop tasering an old white lady for cursing at him and another was in Washington State where a cop killed a Native American who was carrying a small woodcarving knife with minimal notice. Just freaked out and shot him.

To sum it up, what I see right now from Trump is the Libertarian movement finally gaining sufficient power in the Republican Party to elect a president favorable to their views. Most of what Trump is pushing is what I heard from the Libertarian Arm of the Republican Party. The guy in question became a precinct officer and said his local chapter of the Libertarian Party was doing all they could to push into the Republican Party to push their views. They wanted to take power from the Neocons. I asked him why not the Democratic Party and he said Democrats are a lost cause who don't believe in the American Constitution or liberty. He said the Dems like Big Government and were never going to change.

At the time I did not think they would be able to gain enough power to elect president, seems I was wrong.

I'm more of an independent leaning Republican conservative myself. I'm pretty lax on social issues as I don't care to micromanage other people and think the government should minfd it's business when it comes to personal choices like marriage, child rearing, mate choices, and hobbies and such. I'm very pro businesses and prefer lower taxes unless they support the business structure. I'm not for no government. I very much believe in regulation and feel Tort Law would be ineffective to curb abuse. Better to regulate before something terrible happens than let some corp dump a bunch of chemicals, pay some moderate fine in Tort Court, then keep all their money like seems to happen.

Trump's decisions look Libertarian to me. Far right Libertarian. Ron Paul type of material. Major players in the Libertarian movement gave up on Ron Paul as they didn't think he could win and they couldn't win unless they took over one of the major political parties. They chose the Republican Party and found a populist willing to push their agenda so long as it got him what he wanted.

[I-5]

Asf, are you saying you think Trump actually possesses an ideology? I don’t believe that for a second. As far as libertarianism, 2 of the main tenets are free markets and civil liberties, so that’s a definite fail. The only semblance of thought I see in him is he likes to appoint people that look like they came from central casting (Hegseth, Bondi) and thsr swear allegiance to Trump. And a strange bias towards dictatorships around the world, especially the one in Moscow. No one thinks the tariffs are a good idea, not even his own party.

[River Dog]

What if he's (Trump) not actually nuts, Riv? No, he's not the sharpest tool in the drawer, but that's a lot of random things that have happened that seem to not benefit the country. He's not even the one pushing the buttons; it's DOGE, and they are not dumb, but they don't seem to be helping the country with these moves I outlined above.

Then it simply means that my explanation isn't correct.

What we do know is that Trump is erratic, unpredictable. Look at all of the campaign promises he's broken. He said that on Day One, he'd launch the greatest deportation effort ever, but despite the headlines about the Venezuelan nationals, he's removed fewer illegal aliens last month than Biden did in February 2024. He pledged to end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office. He promised to lower the price of gas and last Thursday, claimed that the price was under $2.00/gallon in "a couple of states" even though the lowest in the nation was at a station in Texas at $2.17. The nationwide price of gas in January 2025 was $3.08, today it's $3.27. He promised to lower grocery prices, and those have gone up and will go up even further due to his tariffs. Eggs alone have increased 8% since he took office.

I could go on and on. But the point is that Trump is very erratic, talks out his arse, says and does things that make no sense whatsoever and have no basis in fact. I think he's nuts as he demonstrates a lot of the traits of a person who is mentally compromised and would explain nearly everything about his behavior.

And you're right, Trump isn't behind the curtains throwing switches and pulling levers. Half the time he doesn't even know what DOGE has done, they are almost an independent department with no oversight whatsoever. Sometimes they hit on a good idea, like ending the production of pennies and cutting back at USPS, other times they step in it, like closing SSA offices (how many times have you heard Trump say that he wasn't going to touch SS or Medicare?)

[Aseahawkfan]

Asf, are you saying you think Trump actually possesses an ideology? I don’t believe that for a second. As far as libertarianism, 2 of the main tenets are free markets and civil liberties, so that’s a definite fail. The only semblance of thought I see in him is he likes to appoint people that look like they came from central casting (Hegseth, Bondi) and thsr swear allegiance to Trump. And a strange bias towards dictatorships around the world, especially the one in Moscow. No one thinks the tariffs are a good idea, not even his own party.

Moscow isn't really benefitting. Russia is not respected economically. Russia has lost Syria with the Assad family losing controlling. The deal Trump crushed in his first term with Iran also hobbled another of Russia's Middle Eastern allies. Trump hasn't removed the sanctions on Russia, so they are still suffering economically. Russia makes nothing anyone wants. Their sole economic contribution is their natural resources. The sole reason you believe Trump has a strange fascination with dictatorships is the media and Trump playing games with them. Nothing else he has much done is much more than pragmatic negotiation. Even when the Democrats were in office, they were half-assing the Ukraine War as Ukraine wasn't winning or taking back any land unless America put boots on the ground. Ukraine has been a big money pit of wasted time and slow losing costing thousands of Ukrainian lives as America takes half-measures to assist them in losing a war slowly. Even now Trump telling Zelensky he has to give up Crimea is pragmatic negotiation because Zelensky does have to give up Crimea unless America goes in militarily and helps them retake it. It may not be what anyone likes to hear, but it is 100 percent true. America hasn't had the stomach for real, prolonged war since the American people gave up on the Vietnam War. Both parties know this. Vladimir Putin knows this which is why he waits to take Ukraine when Democrats are in office knowing the Democratic Party cannot ever support American boots on the ground since Vietnam. The Democratic Party gave up the military option after the Vietnam War.

No, I am saying that the people that supported Trump have an ideology and he's willing to support that ideology so long as he gets what he wants.

I think the campaign managers he chose tapped that ideology to get to the White House. Trump has discussed what issues he pursues at rallies and such. He has campaign managers who developed his campaign plan tapped into the Libertarian ideology that existed in the Republican Party prior to Trump. So his campaign managers advised him to pursue that group as they could put him in the White House. You can tell what group that was by his talking points which were not very mainstream Republican, more what is considered far right Republican.

Words like the Deep State I also heard from this Libertarian guy. They believed the government was run by Deep State officials that pulled the strings. This guy also believed in things like Deep State operations to remove Americans' rights. If you listen to Trump's campaign rhetoric, these are the talking points he pushed to gain enough support to win the White House.

Does Trump believe much of this? I doubt it. Is Trump able to take a political talking point and get votes? Yep. He's Mr. Salesman selling those Libertarian Voters they finally have a guy "clearing the swamp" of the Deep State bad guys.

Why do you think he tapped into Democrat and Republican votes? RFK was from the Kennedy family and was big time Democrat prior to his appointment by Trump. Tulsi Gabbard was a Democratic Congresswoman from Hawaii. But both are also believers in things like the Deep State and offbeat political beliefs.

It's also why Trump doesn't get along with mainstream Republicans like Liz Cheney, Romney, and Mitch McConnell.

Trump tapped the vote of the non-mainstream Republican Party and non-mainstream Democrats and just offbeat characters like Elon Musk and Joe Rogan who were usually independents or left wing. He's even now convinced Bill Maher to come sit down with him. Maher was a hardcore Democrat.

You seem to be ignoring all the people Trump has pulled together to support him across both parties because you want to believe this singular aspect of Trump's behavior is true. Widen your view and look at what's really going on. Trump is tapping into the non-mainstream voters as well as part of the mainstream to get the votes he needed. He tapped into both parties.

That's why I call him a Demopublican. He's a strange hybrid populist politician who has appeal across party lines. He's taken certain key issues people care about such as Libertarian ideology, trans females in sport and in schools, the anti-affirmative action crowd, the anti-immigrant crowd, labor groups who have lost manufacturing jobs, and formed them into the MAGA Party. Sort of Republican, but somewhat Democrat. Trump's own hybrid Party. I imagine it will die with him as I don't see anyone who can pull all those supporters together after Trump. I don't think J.D. Vance has the ability myself, but we shall see.

[Aseahawkfan]

Then it simply means that my explanation isn't correct.

What we do know is that Trump is erratic, unpredictable. Look at all of the campaign promises he's broken. He said that on Day One, he'd launch the greatest deportation effort ever, but despite the headlines about the Venezuelan nationals, he's removed fewer illegal aliens last month than Biden did in February 2024. He pledged to end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office. He promised to lower the price of gas and last Thursday, claimed that the price was under $2.00/gallon in "a couple of states" even though the lowest in the nation was at a station in Texas at $2.17. The nationwide price of gas in January 2025 was $3.08, today it's $3.27. He promised to lower grocery prices, and those have gone up and will go up even further due to his tariffs. Eggs alone have increased 8% since he took office.

I could go on and on. But the point is that Trump is very erratic, talks out his arse, says and does things that make no sense whatsoever and have no basis in fact. I think he's nuts as he demonstrates a lot of the traits of a person who is mentally compromised and would explain nearly everything about his behavior.

And you're right, Trump isn't behind the curtains throwing switches and pulling levers. Half the time he doesn't even know what DOGE has done, they are almost an independent department with no oversight whatsoever. Sometimes they hit on a good idea, like ending the production of pennies and cutting back at USPS, other times they step in it, like closing SSA offices (how many times have you heard Trump say that he wasn't going to touch SS or Medicare?)

Trump is playing golf. Elon paid 270 million to ride his coattails. He's gotta let Elon do what Elon does...like ruin his Tesla business, hope that right wing voters who don't believe in climate change buy his Teslas, and impregnate random women he meets on X to seed the planet. Elon is definitely nuts. That guy has lost it.

So we basically have two crazy rich guys running the country. Neither one sleeps very much, which probably contributes to their crazy.